Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Essential articles

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WikiProject Video games (Rated Project-class)
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Talk Page Archived[edit]

Okay. The page was getting too large, so it's been archived. Old discussions can be continued here. Thanks!  Dylanlip  (talk) 15:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Lacks direction on prioritization[edit]

This page doesn't give any help on how to prioritize articles, yet priority categories lead us here. –xeno talk 17:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Removals[edit]

I removed the following games from the list:

My reasoning is that, as this is the Essential articles page, only the most critical games should be included. Melee's inclusion, for example, is inarguable. However, Brawl is not the biggest Wii game; it is not the best-selling Wii game; it was not a cultural phenomenon. It just isn't "Essential" material. As for the other games:

  • The Sims 2 may have sold well, and may have had slight impact through machinima and its music, but consider this: would it be included if it were not the sequel to The Sims? Of course not; countless games with similar impact are not included. The Sims is Essential; The Sims 2 is just interesting.
  • Manic Miner's justification for inclusion is based on a single unsourced statement, included in the article and in its description box. Its release date shows that it is far from the first platformer. The article contains no other suggestion of its supposed impact. So why is it Essential to the project? I may simply be misinformed, but we'll see.
  • Lego Star Wars II simply has not had the impact necessary for inclusion. Good sales and popularity are fine, but what has it influenced beyond its sequels?
  • Mario & Sonic, like Star Wars, had good sales. And, like Star Wars, it did not have significant cultural impact, beyond the widely-noted novelty of unrelated characters appearing in the same game. That it signaled an era of Sega-Nintendo collaboration may be true; that this justifies its inclusion as Essential is not.

If you disagree, we'll argue it out below. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 05:16, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Indie game[edit]

H3llkn0wz added Indie games to Genres. While I tend to agree that Indie Game is essential (although I am not yet very familiar with our guidelines for essential-dom), I am not sure it should be in the genre section. Perhaps Industry and Development would make more sense? -- Nczempin (talk) 11:01, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I thought about this and I have no idea where exactly to put it. For industry there is independent video game development (albeit I'm gonna propose merge soon). I would put it in "Technology" -> "General", may be? —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 11:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, adding independent video game development to Industry would make more sense IMHO, before or after a merge. Until a merge (which could fail), is it strictly necessary to include the game article? Perhaps this is motivation for you to expedite the merge proposal process? :-) As I said, I don't yet know a lot about essential-dom, does "what would someone be more likely to be looking for" come into it? Under that (hypothetical) aspect, would people be looking for Indie games or ivgd? Do we need both? On the other hand, don't some people consider indie games like a genre? Like "action game of the year, rts gamew of the year, indie game of the year"? -- Nczempin (talk) 11:21, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Whatever people consider, it's not a genre as far as reliable sources are concerned. It's just a type/subset of video games. Regarding the articles, it's a work in progress. We don't need both, ivgd is basically an unsourced/OR version of indie game. But I want to include all referencable ivgd material into indie game first before merge/redirect. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:10, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
So would you be up for: remove ig from genres. add ivgd to industry. when the merge-redirect is done, things will fall into place, until then, we have a slightly less desirable situation, that we can live with. Alternatively, we could put ig in industry, and if someone were to object, they would find (or be pointed to) this discussion. -- Nczempin (talk) 12:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, as I said, I prefer "indie game" in "General". I'm fine with ivgd in industry. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:48, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay. So what'll happen once you'll have merged? -- Nczempin (talk) 01:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Whenever that happens in far distant future, the ivgd just gets removed from Industry. I mean this page is hardly the pinnacle of Wikipedia. I doubt these small changes matter. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 09:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Mid importance[edit]

I request that articles Mid-importance or lower should be removed from the Essential Articles list. I am asking this as it could be controversial to do it without consensus as some Mid-important articles are popular games (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night), popular series (Gran Turismo), popular characters (Solid Snake), etc. What should be done with them? GamerPro64 00:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Essential articles is basically the same thing as Top/High. Mid-class articles should be removed. --PresN 01:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
I tend to agree that we should remove Mid-importance articles from the list. We have plenty of High- and Top-importance articles as it is. Moreover, we have many, many more Mid-importance articles, which it becomes too subjective to list as an essential article. –MuZemike 18:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Support except perhaps "Gameplay and design" articles, which may not be High importance individually but constitute core concepts on VG. Or at least trim those. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 18:19, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Which suggests that we should change how we rate concepts, as currently on WP:VG/A we have all concepts listed as Mid or lower, with genres above... Even cross genres are rated higher, which is nonsensical. For example, an article such as boss (video game) would be a mid level article. Bosses are kind of important for the vast majority of single player games, yet it lands at mid tier? --Izno (talk) 23:04, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
That, my friend, is for another discussion. For now, I am planning on trimming the "Gameplay and design" section after this discussion is done. GamerPro64 23:07, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Removing the mid articles for at least the individual games and series sounds reasonable reasonable to me. Some mid level articles are more helpful than others for the remaining sections. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:06, 5 May 2011 (UTC))
Shouldn't we have a discussion about that on the project's talk page? GamerPro64 20:53, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, we're here, aren't we? I mean, we might as well discuss what's not Mid here, since I doubt that anyone is going to oppose the removal of Mid-importance articles. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Ok. What do you want to say? GamerPro64 21:17, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, pretty much what I did say - that we should review whether the Mid-importance articles are actually Mid-importance (whether they have been upgraded since or whether they are currently inappropriately labeled Mid-importance). It's better to get it out of the way now. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
I looked at the Punch-Out!! example and you assessed it to High-importance. Is there any other examples that you could provide? GamerPro64 21:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Not off hand, no; however, we should still look through them and determine what Mid-importance articles could qualify. I went through it, and I noticed that some of the "high mid" importance articles such as Nintendogs would be removed. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree about that. I also think that Crash Bandicoot (video game) should be removed as well; in my opinion, I don't see how important the game is. GamerPro64 22:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd say... remove Crash Bandicoot, Computer Bismarck, Lode Runner, Snake, Worms, Symphony of the Night, Golden Sun, Herzog Zwei, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario RPG, Tekken, Wipeout, and Star Fox. Keep everything else (or at least don't remove them pending discussion). - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)