Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

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viewtalkeditchanges

Review scores[edit]

I've been adding review information from magazines like Electronic Gaming Monthly and GamePro for some months now, and it's become clear to me that there's a difference of opinion on how the review scores for these publications should be represented.

  • Electronic Gaming Monthly uses a panel of four reviewers which each give their own score on a scale of 1 to 10. No single consensus score appears in their reviews, but in places like their buyers' guides and top 50 games of the year, they use an average of the four reviewers' scores as the game's official score, so I've been taking their lead and doing that. However, some editors instead use the total of the four reviewers' scores. For example, where EGM and I use 6.75 out of 10, another editor might write 27 out of 40.
  • GamePro does not provide a single score at all. They give scores in four categories (graphics, control, sound, and FunFactor), but I have not seen any indication that they consider these four categories to all be equally important. Despite this, many editors post GamePro scores, using either the average of the four category scores, or the total of those scores. In a number of cases I've added a summary of a GamePro review to an article, and immediately after an editor has stepped in to add a score to the summary.

How does project consensus say we should represent scores for these publications? I still think we should use each gaming publication's own scoring system (or lack thereof) rather than making up our own, but I'll happily bow to whatever the consensus is.--Martin IIIa (talk) 16:27, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

With EGM, we should suggest the average score, but the total score is fine as long as it is presented "27/40" to show what the maximum is. (I assume that the math works out right that it is a straight up average for that). I'd avoid including GamePro scores in the table - just because the review is used in prose does not require it to be summarized in the table, and there's no simple way to summarize 4 separate scores without engaging in OR (the averaging). --MASEM (t) 16:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't think I really like using either of these scores. Taking the average from the four Electronic Gaming Monthly scores doesn't seem that bad for the role these scores play in our articles, but I don't really see the point of doing that. "making up" an out-of-context score from the four GamePro scores doesn't seem right to me, as we have no right of deciding the value of each of the grades, nor can we even know if any of the four accurately show the value of the game in general. Since GamePro doesn't use their scores in such a way either, we probably shouldn't. That, and again, I don't really see the point. The prose is as always way more important and of interest than those grades at the end. ~Mable (chat) 20:58, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, now that I think of it, using the Famitsu approach for EGM would be better (showing all four scores). I'm still not sure on GamePro, however. --MASEM (t) 16:08, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Use the individual scores from EGM. If you use the total score in the table, insert a note indication the separate scores. Do the same for Famitsu. A game receiving 9/10, 9/10, 9/10, 1/10 is different to a game receiving 7/10, 7/10, 7/10, 7/10. I've previously mentioned this at FAC. - hahnchen 22:32, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
While I doubt that we will ever get a case of three nines and a one there are actual cases were simply listing the average would skewed the facts. For example, the average of the EGM scores for Starfox Adventure was 7.1666.... but that average does not take into account that the actual scores were 8, 9 and 4.5. While EGM is not listed in the table for that game it would be true that if it was, and we only listed the average, it would hide the fact that there was a significant discepency between the scores.--67.68.30.254 (talk) 23:40, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks so much for the replies. I'm sorry I'm coming in late with a follow-up question, but as far as variations in EGM's individual review scores, when that happens I've just been noting it in the prose, e.g. instead of "Electronic Gaming Monthly gave it a mixed review", I write "The four reviewers of Electronic Gaming Monthly were divided about the game. Two of them said blah blah blah while the other two said bleh bleh bleh." Is this insufficient? The thing is, while variations in their individual scores do occur, they are not nearly as common as you'd think. It is extremely rare that EGM's highest and lowest scores for a game differ by more than two points, and I've never seen a variation on the level hahnchen suggests. It just seems a bit tedious to list all four review scores when it's mostly along the lines of 6/10, 6/10, 6/10, 7/10.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
No Martin, explaining it in the prose like that is perfect and is exactly what you should do. I simply don't recommend trying to at the scores in somekind of table just for the sake of it. The table can be used for a quick overview, but if you have to overcomplicate the table and skew the numbers in the table, then I think you'd be losing sight of what is important. Again, generally, there are plenty of reviews to put in such a table, meaning that it is easy to avoid such situations. ~Mable (chat) 19:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Category - "Role-playing video games introduced in 2015" Question[edit]

Okay, so I keep seeing a certain category being added to a bunch of articles on my watchlist, and I wanted to double check here before I start reverting, in case I'm wrong.

Here's an example of what I mean. The category "Category:Role-playing video games introduced in 2015" is being added to games like Xenoblade Chronicles X. My concerns are:

  1. This game is not out yet. Its set for a 2015 release date, but is not out yet, or necessarily guaranteed to release this year. The fact that the category is in past tense makes me think this should only be tagged for articles already released in 2015.
  2. If "introduced" refers to something besides release, like when the game was first announced, then that doesn't fit either. The game was revealed in concept in 2013, and by official name in 2014, for example.

Am I missing something? Or does this need to be removed? Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 13:36, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this category... useful? I mean, is it going to be expanded back through the years as well? What about all the other genres? We already have genre categories and "released in year" categories. Is this a subcat of both the "RPG" category and the "Released in 2015" category? Nevermind, I see there's dozens and dozens of these categories already populated... I have no relevant input. -- ferret (talk) 13:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Introduced does sound a bit off to me, how is it "introduced"? Like Serge said, the game was unveiled or announced in 2013, and Chronicles X is not out just yet this year. It isn't the first Xenoblade game either, which could make it the introduction to a series, but that would still be a wrong category (or at least not correctly named). I think it should be "released", like "scheduled for release in..." and later on "released in..." because that doesn't leave any room for confusion, at least to me. --Soetermans. T / C 14:03, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
I've always struggled to understand the "introduced" categories, I thought they were there to indicate the first appearance of a series (like on the opening credits of a film or TV show : "Introducing Sergecross as...") not to catalogue individual games. - X201 (talk) 14:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
This was how I had previously seen the category used. I also thought it was applied inappropriately on games that have yet to be released. Something like "2015 role-playing games" would be a fine intersection of "released in 2015" and "RPGs", no? We currently have the whole Category:2014 MMORPGs and Category:MMORPGs by year. czar  16:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
So, I rarely deal with categories other than putting a few very obvious ones on the article's I create; can you just "move/rename" a category in the same manner you can an article? Or would it be better to delete this one and create a new one? Any help would be appreciated. I normally wouldn't be all that concerned, but as I said, it, and similar ones, have been making it on my watchlist lately, and I know it needs fixing, but just wasn't sure how to go about doing it... Sergecross73 msg me 21:07, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
I think if we do keep this is should only used for the year of the first entry in a RPGS series, not the latest entry in an established series. At the very least the category should be removed from Xenoblade Chronicles X since that was not the game that started the series.--64.229.166.239 (talk) 23:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Introduced would make sense if it was the "introduction" of a franchise. Final Fantasy could have "Role-playing video game series introduced in 1987" as a category, for example. It currently has "Video game franchises introduced in 1987". I guess that's better anyway. One does not introduce a game, it gets either released or announced. Xenoblade Chronicles X could have a "2015 role-playing video games" category (if it isn't considered Christal ball or something). Probably an category's title worth changing. ~Mable (chat) 19:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

(We get around the crystal ball by putting forthcoming games in the "Upcoming video games scheduled for 2015" category; since that list is pretty small comparatively it doesn't get broken down by genre the way the released games categories do.) --PresN 19:38, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

This subject has been nagging me all week. I've just done a bit of digging and I've just dug this out (User_talk:Mindmatrix/December_2014#Dispersion_of_year_categories_by_genre) I knew it rang a bell. I contacted the user that created them last year, as they were going against our consensus on WP:DUPCAT, I hadn't seen their additional explanation until this morning. It seems the user was trying to create something akin to Category:2007 role-playing video games and instead decided upon a different naming structure to fit in with different projects. I think a mass category rename is in order to avoid the confusion that "introduced" has introduced. - X201 (talk) 11:59, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Prodding @Sergecross73: just to make sure he's seen the above. - X201 (talk) 14:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I did read this, I just haven't been around that much the last few days. I agree with what you say, I believe it should be changed or deleted. I was hoping someone else would take the lead on this though, as I'm not expert with categories. Sergecross73 msg me 13:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Two questions on categorising video game franchises.[edit]

1. If a franchise article page is placed in subcategory Category:Video game franchises introduced in 2007 should it be removed from the parent category Category:Video game franchises? Going by WP:CAT#Categorizing pages I'm guessing it should be removed from the parent category. Currently, some articles are in both, some only in subcategory, and some only in parent category.

2. On Category: Video game franchises, under Subcategories do the eponymous franchise categories need moving under Category:Wikipedia categories named after video game franchises‎? Again there doesn't seem to be any consistency at the moment.

Just checking I got things right before I make changes. – The1337gamer (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

It looks like that category has already been removed from Category:Video game franchises. At first glance, I'd think its parent category should be Category:2007 video games. Liz Read! Talk! 00:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
It's still there as a sub-subcategory, it's listed under Category:Video game franchises by year which is a subcategory of Category:Video game franchises. I think Category:Video game franchises introduced in 2007 should be removed from Category:2007 video games because the former is for franchise article pages and the later for game article pages. Same goes for other years. The1337gamer (talk) 09:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Who made the Reception charts very big?[edit]

I noticed a few minutes ago that the Reception charts are suddenly made very big. I have a feeling that they may be too big for article pages. Like this one, for example. Who made these Reception charts so big? Can something be done to make them normal-sized again? --Angeldeb82 (talk) 00:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Looks like Koavf, at Module:Video game reviews. Reverting, no discussion was held at the template talk or here for a change to a large-use template. --PresN 00:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I appreaciate your help. --Angeldeb82 (talk) 02:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
@Angeldeb82: But they're not "normal-sized": the module makes text which is 80% the size of the default: this is almost unreadable in some templates. —Justin (koavf)TCM 00:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, there's something going on wrong with the template. It looks like the VG article you were editing that you saw a problem in was Apotheon, and I agree- that reviews box is tiny. But look at Children of Mana - same template ({{Video game reviews}}), but actually readable. Something about adding the "platform" columns shrinks the text even more. I'll look into it. --PresN 03:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Okay, think I've got it. That's some... interesting Lua code, at least as far as CSS goes. It shrinks the text down for the table, then undoes some of that shrinking for certain cells- but wasn't undoing it for tables with multiple systems; instead of 88% size, you'd get 70%. Should be fixed now. --PresN 03:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Which source is more "reliable"?[edit]

Hi guys! While read Color TV-Game, I found an opposition between two sources. The one is from the book Game Over, now listed in article, said Color TV-Game 6 and Color TV-Game 15 were sold one million units each; while the another one I found is from Japanese media Nikkei Business Publications, said the totally sales is one million, Color TV-Game 15 is 700,000 and Color TV-Game 6 is 300,000, respectively. I'm not familar with guidelines, we source which one, or both?

The Nikkei BP source said: "The two video game consoles of Nintendo have been sold about 1 million units in total. More than 70% of the sales are from the console priced 15,000 Yen." (任天堂は二つのゲーム機を合計で約100万台販売した。販売台数の7割以上が1万5000円の機種だった。) --CAS222222221 (talk) 13:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Is one of the sources more recent than the other? i.e. could it be the case that they ended up selling a million each and one story is just behind the other? Sam Walton (talk) 10:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The one is on 1993 and the one is on 1994, while the lifespan of Color TV-Game is 1977 to 1980. --CAS222222221 (talk) 10:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I believe both sources are reliable. I think usually you'd go with the sales figures you see replicated in the most sources, but I imagine there's a limited amount of sources reporting on this. If you can't find out which one is correct, you could always list both, attributing each source for each figure in the writing. ("According to figures from Game Over, it sold "x" units", for example.) Sergecross73 msg me 13:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Another 3 questions[edit]

Hi everyone! I would like to ask another 3 different questions.
1. I would like to know whether a video game gone gold is notable to mentioned in the development section. I tend to add them to articles every time when critics made stories about them but are these information necessary?

2. This one is a very minor question. It is about the position of the review template. For example. If an article have both pre-release subsection and post-release subsection, would it be more sensible to put the template along with the post-release section since scores were issued after the game's release? I always found that the template was placed/moved next to the pre-release section like this and this

3. This is also a very minor question. I wonder if information about reception is appropriate for the lead section or not. It often get removed like this

AdrianGamer (talk) 04:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

  • I see no problem with mentioning when the game went gold.
  • I personally find the pre-release/post-release subsections odd. It just depends on how it's done I guess.
  • Reception in lead is appropriate, especially for higher quality articles. --JDC808 04:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The Dying Light edit you linked in question 3 happened because the Lead had more detailed information than the Reception section itself. Keep it brief when mentioning reception in the Lead, maybe one or two lines. BlookerG talk 08:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not agree with removing reception paragraphs from the lead, just because the actual reception section misses such a summary. We should either add one there, or trim the reception paragraph in the lead. Outright removing it isn't the way to go. --Soetermans. T / C 09:48, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:GamloftLifeSimulationGames[edit]

If someone has a chance to look into notability on this bunch (I believe it's the same author), it looks to me like they should largely remain redirects. I'm on the run right now. czar  16:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Success in the City looks like it establishes notability. Friends for Life and Singles in the City do not appear to do so. Paris Nights is questionable, though rough assessment leans toward not.

I would suggest a merge for all involved, even for Success. --Izno (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I've just moved the template to Template:Gameloft social simulation games. --Soetermans. T / C 13:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Official Xbox Magazine links broken[edit]

Future have just moved OXM across to GamesRadar. All their links no longer work and their old material has not transferred across to the new domain.

Future have recently closed various websites and publications such as C&VG and Official Nintendo Magazine. Did we do anything about those? Are there any bots on Wikipedia where we can request mass archive link updates for an entire domain? - hahnchen 23:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Infobox credits[edit]

If a game does not list anybody as a director or co-director, but a member/s of a development team are listed as a development director/s, can I place them in the infobox as directors? BlookerG talk 21:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

We generally suggest avoiding listing these type of credits unless the person is notable (that is, having a blue-linked article here). Thus for titles like any Final Fantasy game, a lot of these will be listed out since these people are all notable, but for many indie games or the like, even if the credits have a director, its not appropriate. --MASEM (t) 21:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Alright, thanks. BlookerG talk 23:16, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Brainbread[edit]

I've just stumbled across these two articles(BrainBread (Half Life Mod) and Brainbread 2, I can't find a reliable source for either. If someone wants to try before I AFD them, feel free. - X201 (talk) 09:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Reminder: GDC[edit]

With the 2015 main GDC conference on us, it is a good reminder that their Flickr photostream [1] in CC-BY licenses , meaning they are great pictures to illustrate articles, particularly to illustrate major devs, etc. These can be uploaded to commons, just make sure to tag them with the "Game Developers Conference 2015" category there. --MASEM (t) 04:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh yeah, this reminds me. I've been meaning to ask someone about this but never got around to doing it... Two years ago, video game director Kotaro Uchikoshi attended GDC, and only one single person seems to have taken a photo of him. Uchikoshi is not a very public person, so I dunno if there would be an opportunity to take a photo of him again anytime soon. I'd ask the photographer politely if they'd be willing to release the photo under a Commons-friendly license, but I don't know much about copyright law or what would be needed to do this. Is there anyone who's knowledgeable and willing to try? IDVtalk 05:17, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
GDC is a public place, and unless there was any known specific restrictions on photography there (unlikely), the picture would be appropriate to use if you could get the proper release from the photographer. The easy way to do it is send him a message to ask him to put the photo on flickr as CC-BY or CC-BY-SA (what we treat as free licenses), but you can also review WP:CONSENT for getting such permission. --MASEM (t) 05:52, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I usually send a flickr mail to the photo holder asking if they're willing to re-license it to CC-BY, CC-BY-SA, or public domain so that it can be used in X article. Slap a prefix to the mail to the affect that "I'm a Wikipedia editor that's currently working in X topic area, which doesn't have a photo of person Y, and noticed they had one." I've had a pretty good success rate with that. Changing licenses on Flickr is something most users understand, unlike sending the picture in an email to OTRS, which is really easy to mess up. --PresN 06:06, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Also: Even though there's 136 pages of photos, actually (as of this writing) only the first 6 pages are GDC15, after that it goes back in time to GDC Europe 2014, etc. --PresN 06:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)