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viewtalkeditchanges

Review Thread IV: Roman Numeral Edition[edit]

Been a few weeks? Time to resurrect an old "favorite"!

  • FAC:
  • Master System has been nominated since September 12. It has three supports and two unconcluded reviews. It has a passed image review and a passed source review. Should be alright, though it needs those two unfinished reviews to be concluded.
  • Tony Hawk's Underground has been nominated since September 27. It has three supports in addition to a trivial, very early one. It has a passed image review and a passed source review.
  • Lightning (Final Fantasy) has been nominated since October 6. It has one support and a passed image review.
  • GAN:
  • GTC:
  • Peer review:
  • FAR and GAR:
  • Midtown Madness has been nominated since May 1. It has no delists. Thanks to improvements during FAR, it's a lot better, and the delists have been rescinded.

You can see the above to prioritize reviews. Commence the begging thread below! To start it off with, I'm always willing to give a review back if anyone wants to jump in at my FLC. --PresN 05:01, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Fez should be passing soon. I'd say the big priority is probably Midtown Madness: it's been up there for almost six months. If anyone can lend a hand, it will mean WPVG gets to keep one of its 251 FA/Ls. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:15, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I feel bad about having tacked up the one lingering delist, but I really do feel the coverage of Gameplay is inadequate - not unfixable, of course, but since I've never played Midtown Madness and am not familiar with its sources I can't do this myself. Also, as a minor note, Raetikon '​s been passed and Tony Hawk has one support, albeit with more comments possibly incoming. Tezero (talk) 20:46, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Updated. --PresN 21:22, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Plus, if I'm being honest, I think URDNEXT, from whom Underground '​s one support came, was at least one of the following: biased in favor of my work, trying to use an informal quid-pro-quo system on account of us having collaborated, or simply not that discerning yet with regards to prose. And he's retired, at least for the time being, so no more comments will be incoming to back it up. In other words, this FAC might as well have zero supports. Tezero (talk) 21:39, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Anyone interested in nominating one of their GAs or fixing up one of someone else's? Three FACs is a bit dry. Tezero (talk) 16:08, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

I went ahead and closed Mordin Solus' GAN. It wasn't being touched so it was best to have it taken care of. GamerPro64 16:24, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
I'd really encourage some more feedback at the FAC for Master System if anyone can. Most of the reviews so far are unfinished; it could really use a source and image review, and maybe some completion on prose as well. Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:20, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Updated again; thanks to the GAR contest almost all our GANs have dried up! We were at nearly 15 a few weeks ago, and now we have 1. We still have three FACs and one FLC waiting for reviews, though! --PresN 18:39, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to urge you all to review the Master System article if you do nothing else. Tony Hawk's Underground, which was nominated later, is still doing better; it's only one support and an image and source review away from FA. Master System's an interesting read, too - this might sound surprising, but I'm actually not very well-versed in Sega's history, and now that condition's been a bit alleviated through Red Phoenix's hard work. Tezero (talk) 22:34, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Every time you don't review the Master System article, William Dafoe screams in a puppy's face. (You may win back a small amount of karma by reviewing Tony Hawk's Underground). Tezero (talk) 16:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I feel bad for not helping Red Phoenix with a Master System review, but I'm really not qualified. It's too far outside my realm of knowledge. (That said, I'll probably review Dreamcast when it goes up, since I read a lot about it while scanning stuff for RP.) If anyone can give Master System a review, it'd be great. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 19:50, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
I always say I'm not into reviewing FACs and the like. But I'll attempt to write one up for the sake of giving it a fair run on the boards. GamerPro64 20:20, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
You guys are very kind; thank you for your help. Red Phoenix let's talk... 03:38, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Lightning really needs more input. Good news is that it's an interesting read, without any of the boring bloat you've come to expect from character articles. Let's not allow this to become a repeat of Squall Leonhart, guys. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Punisher sourcing[edit]

I'm looking for a second opinion on the sourcing used in The Punisher (1993 video game), a recent GA now at DYK. It would appear to be mostly fansites to me, which are unreliable sources and should thus be removed. Thoughts? czar  20:05, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Under normal circumstances, I would say... ouch, those references. But if they are the only places where that information is found, I suppose they would be allowed. I think those are probably included under the same sufferance as: original interviews from dedicated fansites that contain details not found elsewhere, or that site Hardcore 101, which often has details from obscure sources no longer obtainable or accessible. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:10, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi ProtoDrake. I am the GA nominator for the article. This is the first video-game article I have put a lot of effort into, though the fan sites were already added to the article before i got there. One quick question: do video game plot and/or 'cast' sections even need references? I mean, i've upgraded two film articles to GA, and film plots/cast don't require sources, even for GA or FC. My first reaction to the fan-sites being used in the plot was just to remove them all, on the assumption that plots don't require sources, but I left them in in good faith. Is there an official position on this? Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 00:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
The plots don't; casts also don't (I think) but are discouraged for video game articles. A note: something already having been in the article before you got there isn't a reason to keep it unless you suspect that the editors who added it know something you don't. I had to remove the cast section of the Freedom Planet article, especially because only one of its actors is notable enough to have an article here. Tezero (talk) 09:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
As the reviewer, I went easy on it because of the most of those fansites were used mostly for the Gameplay and Plot sections (which hardly counts as WP:CHALLENGEable content) while the Reception had the good enough review sites. In fact, I think some of those reviews can be used to substitute some of the content which those fansites are sourced to, am I right @Freikorp:? Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 14:16, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Done. I've removed all references from Rq87.flyingomelette and Arcadequartermaster, replacing where possible with existing sources in the article. I only had to remove one and a half sentences from the article, and slightly reword another two sentences based on what the new sources back up. Freikorp (talk) 05:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Excellent work. Good day, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 07:18, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
  • What about Honestgamers.com, Siguealconejoblanco.com, arcade-history.com, gaygamer.net, RetroCollect, retrogameage, ifanboy, movie-censorship? They don't appear to be reliable in any way, and should be removed, no? As far as sections that need sourcing, (as of now) the plot can be sourced to the game itself, but the gameplay and reception still should be sourced to reliable, secondary sources. Outside input requested czar  12:38, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
    • Some aspects of gameplay may be sourceable to the game itself as well, but yeah the development section could also do with stronger sources. I know there's some coverage of this game in Retro Gamer. Nothing super in-depth, but it comes up a lot in discussion of which are the rarest of the PAL-region Genesis games. Might be something to consider adding to the article. Let me know if you want me to hunt out the specific references, Freikorp. -Thibbs (talk) 01:37, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
@Freikorp: In response to the above post, ping only works when you attach your signature. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:14, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh thanks. What do you mean by that, though? I did sign. Do you mean ping only works if you use the {{ping}} template? -Thibbs (talk) 17:25, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
The Ping functionality, regardless of template, only works if in the same edit as the user name is linked you sign the edit- in your case, you added the ping in a separate edit from your signature, so it wouldn't have sent them a notification. --PresN 17:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Good to know. Thanks. -Thibbs (talk) 18:32, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Thibbs. When I first came across the article, it had one sentence backed up by the source "Retro Gamer 72, page 52". See this version: [1] I found someone who was selling issue 72 of Retro Gamer on ebay, as I intended to use said source to expand the article further, and also format the reference with an approved method, for which I would have needed more information, such as the article's title. I asked the seller to just confirm there was an article on The Punisher in the magazine before I purchased it. The seller said there was no such article in that issue of the magazine. Considering that if the article had of been in the magazine that person would have made a sale, I can't help but think they were telling the truth. Accordingly I removed the Retro Gamer reference and the attributed statement from the article. I would very much appreciate it if you could find references for this game in Retro Gamer or elsewhere; either the person who added the reference to the article or the ebay seller I contacted got it wrong, so if you have copies of Retro Gamer and could find out who was correct, and or find out where actual articles are, that would be awesome. Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 01:42, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
YesY No problem. I left a comment on your talk page. -Thibbs (talk) 04:12, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Standards for inclusion of systems under "Platform" in infobox[edit]

First off, I apologize profusely if this isn't the correct discussion page for this. I wasn't sure if the template page was simply for the design of the template or if content was also included in that, so I decided to put it here since this page is more active. I noticed on Half-Life (series) that the Steam Machine and Android (NVIDIA Shield) are listed as platforms. While these are specific examples, I think discussion on what is or isn't a platform could be valuable. Concerning the Steam Machine, it's a Linux variant and it's redundant in that aspect. On the other hand, it's a system specifically created for playing linux-enabled games as well as streaming games from Windows and OSX computers. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this, but I lean towards it being a redundancy. As for the Android labeling, the issue is that it doesn't actually run Half-Life natively on Android. While the shield does run Android-based games, in this capacity it's merely a streaming service. Basically, I think my question is are we to include any service that runs the game, or only platforms for which the game was specifically released?209.37.96.2 (talk) 04:24, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Steam Machine should not be listed if Linux is also listed; I know that Valve has said that games developed for SteamOS should still work in regular Linux (with necessary drivers) but if there is a case where SteamOS is required over Linux, that would be when to use that. For games that are run by streaming through cloud services, we'd rather just say "Cloud computing (<service>)" if the specific service is unique - in this case for HL the NVIDIA shield is definitely unique. (This relates to when we had to deal with Onlive services). --MASEM (t) 04:55, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Funny, I just came here to this discussion page to ask a question along this very topic. My specific question is about the Turbo CD and TurboDuo. At first, when I saw "TurboDuo" in the platform field of an infobox, I instinctively replaced it with "Turbo CD", since the TurboDuo is just a combination of the Turbografx-16 and Turbo CD. But then it hit me that, after all, the games' packaging does say "Duo", not "Turbo CD". Gaming publications follow that standard too; they invariably list each game's platform as "Duo". So now I don't know which way to go. Thoughts?--Martin IIIa (talk) 20:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I suppose it would depend on if game was a North America release or not, since the Duo was released specifically for North America. If the game packaging lists the platform as Duo, I'd go with that.204.102.229.130 (talk) 17:44, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Actually, the Duo was first released in Japan. The covers of Japanese Duo releases say "Super CD-Rom2 System", but they ran on the same consoles.--Martin IIIa (talk) 12:38, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

GTA clone CfD[edit]

See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 October 10#Category:Grand Theft Auto clones. The category actually got deleted, after something like 7 weeks listed and 3 replies. Since a recent discussion (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 108#"Clone" designation bias) supported the existence of the parent article (as have quite a few other discussions in different places), it should really have more comments. The cat has been reinstated but is now empty until I can fill it again, as well as being still up for CfD. Editors interested in caretaking generally should probably watchlist CfD to prevent stuff being deleted with only a few non-arguments. bridies (talk) 15:17, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Already got externalities, if anyone cares to comment: Talk:Red Dead Redemption#Reverts. bridies (talk) 03:32, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
    • We got into an edit war over a category. Maybe editors interested should watchlist CfD to prevent stuff being kept with only a few false-arguments. - hahnchen 04:00, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

GTA clone as infobox genre[edit]

On a related note, Bridies has been adding GTA clone as genre in several video game infoboxes. There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Red_Dead_Redemption#GTA_Clone.3F regarding this, but I think a more thorough discussion may be needed. -- Calidum 02:17, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

What kind of discussion are you looking to have? Both the cat and the parent article have been around for ages; it has been a part of the genre navbox for ages. There has been much discussion of these. Also, I am merely repopulating the cat per this admin request. Rather than simply revert the relevant bot edits I am adding sources to those articles for which I can find them, which is the correct thing to do per fundamental policy. As for it being in the infobox, that is merely the simplest way to do it; I don't care if it goes in the article body (which would require the composition of a bit of prose). This is why I have been writing "feel free to better integrate" (which you either failed to comprehend or simply ignored; a recurrent theme with you). bridies (talk) 18:16, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I articulated my opposition to the category at the CFD, the arguments I made are the same reasons why I oppose the addition of GTA clone into infoboxes. If we can satisfactorily describe GTA V (a featured article) as an open world action-adventure, we can do the same with all the "clones". - hahnchen 18:42, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

But GTAV can't be a GTA clone, because it is GTA. That's like saying we should describe Brick, Alleyway, and Smashing simply as "arcade" games, not with the well-documented, well-applied, and much more descriptive term Breakout clone, just because that's what the original Breakout article does. Tezero (talk) 18:50, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
In the CFD, I highlight the following problems with the term GTA Clone, that it is non-standard, ill-defined and can be considered derogatory. Given those issues, I think we should use the genre designators used at GTA V (and others), and not the clone shorthand. - hahnchen 19:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
I am not particularly bothered whether it goes in the infobox or not, but if it is sourced it should be mentioned. And again, no, GTAV is described as "open world, action adventure"; two seperate terms, originally synthesised. bridies (talk) 04:43, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
"Originally synthesised"? What a bizarre turn of phrase, are you trying to conjure up the spectre of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH for describing GTA V as "open world, action adventure"? If a wolf is "bad", and that wolf is also "big", you'd have trouble describing it as a "big, bad wolf"? - hahnchen 14:59, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
It's a plain verb for original synthesis. I'm not "conjuring up the spectre", I am plainly stating that it is original synthesis. You big bad wolf analogy is asinine. Open world is one thing, action adventure another. If "open world action adventure" is the name of this genre, and its use is so prevalent as to make "GTA clone" FRINGE, prove it with sources (yet. again). If you not referring to a single genre, why do these terms preclude the use of GTA clone? Why do we not have the actual (sub)genre in the lead, infobox and cat, as with any other game? Pretty much any other action adventure game will have at least another genre cat; same with open-world, which again might mean anything from Minecraft to MMORPSs to MMOFPSs. I've stated this in multiple venues now and you are still ignoring it. bridies (talk) 15:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
"big, bad" is not a genre of wolf. Morrowind's lead describes it as "open world fantasy action role-playing", that's three different things, not "open world fantasy action role-playing". I'm fine with this, I don't think there's anything to gain from pushing your fringe theory. - hahnchen 15:40, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes, big, bad is not a genre, which is while it's an entirely asinine example. No one is using "open world action-playing" as a reason to exclude another genre, or saying that that is the genre. GTA clone is verifiably a genre, and we have sourced various games as belonging to this category. You are saying that this is "clearly" FRINGE, because there are "hundreds" of sources demonstrating that the prevalent name for this genre is "open world action adventure". So prove it already. Bringing these two terms together as a genre definition (the infobox for Morrowind gives its genre as only action role-playing) is original synthesis without sources. And if it's not the genre definition, then GTA clone is. If all you are saying that these are both open-world and action adventures, then so what? Every game which is open-world and every game which is action adventure will belong to at least one other genre cat. bridies (talk) 16:00, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Also, I would argue that being classified as "open-world, action-adventure" does not preclude also being categorized "GTA Clone"; they're overlap for sure. --MASEM (t) 16:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I think it's important to maintain perspective here. As I see it there are two major questions that need to be addressed:

  • 1 - What makes "Category:GTA Clone" different from "Category: Breakout clones‎", "Category:Mortal Kombat clones‎", or any of the other categories listed at "Category:Video game clones"?
  • 2 - Categories are intended as navigational aids. Is the collocation of these articles helpful? Would another form of navigational aid (list article, nav template, etc.) suffice/improve matters? Would such a thing be acceptable as a compromise?

I would use inter-article consistency to guide the discussion. Has a similar disagreement over categorizing video game "clones" taken place in the past? -Thibbs (talk) 17:41, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

  • I would add Category:Roguelikes. bridies (talk) 03:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Bridies was blocked (somewhat unfairly) over this fight a few days ago, and he appears to have now retired from Wikipedia. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Well I didn't see that coming. It's a shame. bridies has been here a while and has done a lot of good work for WP:VG. I hope this retirement isn't permanent. -Thibbs (talk) 11:11, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

X series[edit]

When I write about a series, I refer to it as "X series" and so link it in an article not as X series but as X series. Other than in the infobox, I haven't found a single usage in months (ever?) where I wouldn't link "series" as part of the phrase. In this case, why do we use "(series)" as a disambiguator? Perhaps this makes more sense with television or other franchises that may refer to a monolithic singular TV show title as a metonym for the whole series ("Y character in Breaking Bad" not "Y character in the Breaking Bad series"), but it makes little sense for games, where Ultima or Mother or Super Mario or whatever is always followed by "series" (not "Y character in Grand Theft Auto" but "Y character in the Grand Theft Auto series"). Unless someone has an explanation, my recommendation would be to drop the parentheses from the disambiguation when referring to game series (e.g., Donkey Kong Country (series)Donkey Kong Country series) as "series" is part of the common name when referring to the overall series. (Another way of thinking about this is that it's "the DKC series" and not "DKC, the series". This also isn't to say that it wouldn't be preferred to remove "series" altogether and use the shortened name, but at least when "series" must be tacked on.) This has been bothering me for a while, so I thought I'd bring it here. Apologies if I brought it up elsewhere before. czar  19:16, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

I'd expect that the reasoning is that often the series' name is most closely tied to the series, not a character, location, individual game, etc., in which case the series' article is simply named "Explosion Chick" instead of "Explosion Chick (series)". (How the hell is this the case with Donkey Kong? Whatever...) In keeping with the standard "(character)", "(video game)", "(fictional country)", "(1989 video game)", etc. scheme, keeping it at "(series)" fits fine.
On the other hand, Wikipedia's coverage of languages, an area I've got some experience in here, only very rarely doesn't disambiguate a language's name simply as "X language" (e.g. English language, Danish language, Hungarian language, Cherokee language, Maori language). And when it isn't, it's just the language's name itself (e.g. Hindi, Nahuatl, Lojban, Sindarin), never something like "Korean (language)". Moreover, languages are actually less likely to be referred to with the "language" addendum than video game series with "series", which places us in an odd situation. Tezero (talk) 19:34, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
The reason TV series are so different is because people rarely refer to individual installments of the series, however popular it may be. Books are a closer cousin, and their series articles do tend to be named "X series" without the parentheses (see, for example, Category:Fantasy novel series). On the other hand, articles on film series (see Category: Film series) clearly favor using parentheses. So I'm wondering now if this is really an issue which should be decided on a WikiProject-by-WikiProject basis, or if we should take it to a different forum in order to get a broader consensus.--Martin IIIa (talk) 14:37, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Is there any opposition to this proposal? I'd like to get local consensus within the project before pitching it elsewhere. I can open an RfC if need be, but, honestly, I think project talk page consensus should be fine czar  16:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

GAN- and FAC-ready articles[edit]

The discussion above has inspired me to dig through the project's B- and A-Class pages for potential GAN and FAC candidates. I'll start by mentioning Maniac Mansion, which nearly passed A-Class and could pass FAC with very little work. Here are some others.

A-Class
  • Pong — Could probably hit FAC without much trouble.
  • Dragon Warrior — It's been sunk at FAC a few times, but it could probably pass now.
  • Super Mario Kart — A spitshine would most likely make this FAC caliber.
  • Robotron: 2084 — Another likely FAC.
  • F.E.A.R. — It would take some work, but it's already 75% of the way there.
  • Pac-Man (Atari 2600) — Definitely potential FAC material.
  • And Yet It Moves — A bit of expansion would take it to the necessary level, I think.
  • Blaster Master — Could probably be nominated today.
  • Pyramid Head — Failed FAC in 2011, but the opposition's reasoning was poor. Could probably be renominated after a little work.
B-Class

That isn't even close to all of them. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Y'know, now that I think about it, I could bring Shinobi (2002 video game) and Astro Boy: Omega Factor, two old projects of mine (as in, pre-semi-retirement, 2010-2011), to GAN pretty easily. I only stopped back then because I haven't actually played them and wasn't patient enough to watch playthroughs, so I didn't feel I'd be able to represent the plots well enough. That could change if large-scale GANing here were a thing. Project M (mod) isn't far, either; I just have to get around to writing a real Gameplay section (admittedly, my sluggishness here is because I prefer regular Brawl and find the M fanbase pretty repulsive, but hey). Wouldn't be surprised if others among us had old, forgotten projects like these. Tezero (talk) 00:07, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Xenoblade Chronicles would probably be a pretty easy effort to get to GA status too. I've been working on it off and on for forever. The main area it needs help is the plot/story section, which is super bloated, but I've only pared down some of it due to not wanting to spoil the game for myself. (Still haven't beaten it.) FYI. Sergecross73 msg me 16:19, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Definitely been there; spoiler aversion has kept me away from the likes of Dust: An Elysian Tail, Antichamber, BioShock Infinite, Questionable Content (I've read the first 500-odd strips and everything since 2009/2010, but that leaves a lot), and a bunch of anime/manga articles - only those pages I haven't even touched. While we're listing potential GANs, all of the main-series Sonic games from 4 onward are within shooting distance; I haven't bothered with them as a result. Lego Rock Band isn't bad, either. Tezero (talk) 17:43, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and 'Splosion Man and Ms. Splosion Man could be sent there in short order. Tezero (talk) 03:37, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Nice to see that this thread has worked out. Already we have "Pokémon Black and White" being a Good Article. GamerPro64 18:53, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Jungle Strike could have been one, too, if bridies hadn't retired. I'll probably renominate it myself in a week or two. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:02, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I'd caution that Platform game isn't nearly as close as it looks. There are lots of original-research statements about the history of the genre and what individual games did for it - some of these are masked by the presence of citations that don't actually confirm this kind of information, just the existence of the games. The reference list is also pretty dismal (unreliable sources, lots of inconsistency in formatting), and there may be too many non-free images. (I can't say I was 100% unbiased in adding the Freedom Planet screenshot - although I suspect it was the same with the addition of the Fez video - but hell, at least those two don't aggravate the copyright problem while they also illustrate the recent development of retro indie platformers.) I'd totally be interested in fixing it up with someone, but "a few days" is likely a massive understatement. Tezero (talk) 22:14, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Good catch. I removed it from the list. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:20, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
GLaDOS should receive a major copyedit, and honestly could do with a heckuva lot of trimming in the reception. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 16:27, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I really don't like doing this, but...[edit]

I'm not confident that Super Smash Bros. Brawl, an important, highly viewed, and highly esteemed article of ours, still meets the FA criteria. The Gameplay section is ridiculously over-detailed with spillover into two other level-2 sections (Playable characters and Stages), and there is a huge reliance on sources from two entities: IGN and Smash Bros. DOJO!!, the latter being a first-party source. More minor concerns include the use of Amazon.com as a source, a few dead links, some inconsistent formatting (e.g. IGN vs. IGN vs. IGN.com), and a few short paragraphs. I know it's part of a featured topic, but I wonder if an FAR wouldn't do it some good. Tezero (talk) 22:59, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I haven't looked through the article in detail but a quick look at how much the article has changed over the 6 years since obtaining FA leads me to think an FAR would be a good idea. Sam Walton (talk) 11:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

VG comments subpages[edit]

Back in October 2009 there was a village pump discussion where it was decided that Wikipedia's old comments subpage scheme would be deprecated. The consensus was finalized in the creation of WP:DCS.

To provide some context here, this scheme was originally developed for use by the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team (see WP:VG Newsletter 1-7's feature) as a way to provide small assessment notes to articles included in the "Articles by Quality" indices. Many WikiProjects including WP:VG did not embrace the new scheme and/or weren't even aware of it. In the discussion leading to deprecation, several specific problems were brought up: broken feedback - these subpages don't show up on watchlists unless specifically watchlisted so even an article's frequent editors were often unaware of the subpage and comments would languish for months to years without response; lack of use - some WikiProjects like WP:VG hardly used them at all; and potential for vandalism/misuse - some of these subpages were either vandalized without anyone noticing or were hosting inappropriate material like personal contact information for new reviewing editors. When the decision was made to deprecate the use of these comments subpages, there was discussion about notifying all affected WikiProjects (with this message) and then deleting all Comments subpages (after subst'ing them into talk). Unfortunately the notification, subst'ing, and deletion phases never took place.

Lucky for WP:VG there are very few (only 38) of these pages in use currently (full list here) so addressing this will hopefully be simple. Would there be any objection if I went ahead and shifted these historical subpages into their relevant talk pages? Per WP:DCS, the process I would use would be this:

  1. - Subst each Comments subpage into talk
  2. - Sign unsigned comments and provide a simple attribution list if unclear from the subst.
  3. - Request the removal of Comment subpages from {{Template:WikiProject Video games}} (easily done by changing "|COMMENTS = yes" to "|COMMENTS = no")
  4. - Request MfD per CSD G6 (Technical deletions) for each shifted comments subpage

The articles that will be affected by this process are covered by 2 WP:VG child projects (WikiProject Halo and WikiProject Square Enix) as well as 37 other WikiProjects (e.g. Biography, Companies, Apple Inc., Animation, Business, California, United States, Albums, Anime and Manga, Dallas-Fort Worth, Film, Horror, and Japan to name a few). So I've requesting input from these and other WikiProjects concerning all relevant WP:VG crossover articles. So does this sound like a good idea? I'm ready to start whenever I get the green-light. -Thibbs (talk) 15:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no problem with this; I didn't even realize these pages existed- and one of them is at an article I GA'd!. --PresN 17:34, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • I can get behind putting these comment pages under historical. Doesn't seem like anyone would even touch them anyway. GamerPro64 19:49, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
    • You mean templating them with {{Template:Historical}} per WP:HISTORICAL rather than deleting them? -Thibbs (talk) 21:54, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
      • Must have mis-read a part in this discussion. Deleting them works too. GamerPro64 18:41, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Maybe move them under a talkpage archive and list them on the talk page as with any other archived discussion? ☺ · Salvidrim! ·  20:09, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Wait, comments? What? Can someone show me an example? Are these like the "to do" lists? Tezero (talk) 21:13, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Oh, those. I've seen them before. It's kinda interesting to read these and old peer reviews, GANs, and FACs; it's like a portal into Old Wikipedia. Tezero (talk) 21:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Question about step four: don't you need to keep (not delete) the comments pages to preserve attribution (unless you're going to do some sort of complicated history merge)? czar  21:23, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
I imagine you would keep the signatures when moving the comments, so it's attributed that way, but I mean that we often redirect pages in order to keep their edit history attribution in lieu of deleting those ties. czar  16:17, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
I'd be surprised if anyone even found these pages once they are redirected (and its links removed), nevertheless if an IP were to find them and get confused. I'd also be surprised if MfD were to delete them, especially knowing that their content was merged. Anyway, my 2¢ are in czar  23:02, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
OK here's the list (color coding: green = safest for CSD; yellow = safest for MfD; red = debatable CSDs) :
Anyway I don't know. I understand the point you're getting at, Czar, but that's what WP:DCS seems to recommend and from the talk page it sounds like it worked pretty smoothly for WikiProject New Jersey in 2010. That's the model I'm going for. The only tweaks I've made to the 2010 WikiProject NJ formula is to invite other interested WikiProjects to comment and to MfD some of the complex ones instead of speedying them all. If consensus at MfD is to redirect then so be it. I don't see much if any value to it but either way is fine by me. -Thibbs (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Process sounds good to me. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:56, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
    • Thanks. I'll give it a few days in case there are comments from the various other WikiProjects, but so far there seems to be no objection. -Thibbs (talk) 23:21, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Type-0 Ultimania interview translation help?[edit]

I've opened a section on the said article's talk page about translating some interviews from the Ultimania guide. This is a little more interesting than other Ultimania translation jobs as the game has yet to be released in the west yet. Is anyone willing to help? And could that someone put translations somewhere easily accessible? It's the merest chance these scans weren't inaccessible to me, as I'm not really signed into a lot of online things. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:02, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

The Anime project might be able to help, they have a higher number of Japanese readers- and if not then, maybe the Japan project, I asked them to translate a title once. --PresN 21:33, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Requests Board reminder[edit]

This is a reminder that we have a Requests Board which has requests for creations of articles for the project. If anyone is interested in making one on the board, feel free too. As well, you can also look through the ones listed and see if they would meet WP:GNG requirements. If not, you can remove them from the board. GamerPro64 20:34, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I cleaned it up and added sources until July 2012. I don't think I'll be doing more for now, so if somebody else wants to pick it up ... Willhesucceed (talk) 14:28, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I just created a page for Owlboy. Man, that's a pain, though it's a neat way to learn about games before they're released (if this ever is...). Tezero (talk) 22:10, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Does Video game controversies need improvement?[edit]

I'm fine with this. The DRM concerns and the like are tailored more towards people who already play games, anyway, not to the general public. Tezero (talk) 18:18, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
This article has gone through a lot of tense discussion and conflict in the past and the current version represents the most recent (April 2014) consensus. The page has 232 watchers at present so you should probably drop a note at the talk page there, Willhesucceed. You might want to ping User:Myrtlegroggins, User:David A, and User:97.100.165.246 as well since they are the ones primarily responsible for the article's current condition. I had made a major cleanup to fix some egregious POV and SYNTH violations prior to that, and I'm not sure who had been involved prior to me. -Thibbs (talk) 18:37, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Okay, the discussion's here, if anyone wants to participate. Willhesucceed (talk) 19:36, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Meetup[edit]

I know a number of y'all live in the American Midwest. I'll be traveling from Wisconsin to Indianapolis (via Chicago) for a conference the second weekend of November (6–9th). If anyone wants to meet up, let me know? (Email is fine too) czar  21:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

A pretty interesting idea to see other members of the project. Too bad I'm busy being in the East Coast. But that does raise an idea for any possible meet ups in the future. GamerPro64 21:12, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Let me check my calendar. I live in Indiana. Red Phoenix let's talk... 22:23, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I actually... might be able to make that. My dad's family all lives around there (compared to my mom's in NYC, which would not be as practical), and if I weren't there for that reason, I could hop a bus pretty easily if I had time. Tezero (talk) 23:58, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree with GamerPro64 - a meetup is an interesting idea. I thought of something like that after attending a USA East-coast Wikipedia event this summer where I was the only one who worked in the VG area. I'm unable to make it to a Midwest event at present, but one thing I'd recommend is that at least one person should wear a super-nerdy Wikipedia shirt or other marker. There's nothing more awkward than having to go around asking random people if they're here for the Wikipedia event. :) -Thibbs (talk) 11:34, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking we could say what we were going to wear beforehand, if it were distinctive enough. For example, I could wear my Tool or Grateful Dead T-shirt or be listening to my iPod with a purple earbud cord. Maybe describe ourselves as well to make it easier: I've been told I'm the spitting image of Landon Liboiron. Tezero (talk) 15:13, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Removal of platform categories[edit]

Has anyone got the ability to roll back User:RacingPhreak's category edits? (Failing that I'll AWB it) - He/She has been removing platform categories eg removing PlayStation 3 games when the PlayStation3-only games cat is in the article. We discussed this and have a consensus for WP:DUPCAT in this discussion from last year. - X201 (talk) 11:11, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Mass Rollback doesn't seem to work for me (maybe it's Monobook only?), I'm sorry. ☺ · Salvidrim! ·  21:12, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Portal:Video games[edit]

Portals in general don't exactly get the love they deserve on Wikipedia. At least in my opinion. Let's talk a bit about our Portal. What's everyone's take on its current look? GamerPro64 18:23, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

On a related note - would someone like to help reintroduce In The News? I was updating it for some time but fell behind due to being the only one doing it and so removed it from the portal again. I'd be happy to get back on top of it with some help though. Also, the portal gets a couple of hundred views per day so we should probably make an effort to look after it. Sam Walton (talk) 18:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I've never figured out our portal's purpose. Is it for average readers who want an introduction to the project? In that case, why is it so hard to access? Or, if it's for us, then why do we maintain it when so few of us actually read it? It's generally outdated and relegated to afterthought status—I've visited the page probably less than 20 times since 2005. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:38, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I tend to forget portals even exist. The only ones I ever remember keeping up with (and it's been months since I checked up on either) were the Linkin Park and Sonic ones. The former clung desperately to its (circa 2009) two GAs and one FL for content, and the latter was unapologetically written like something from a fan wiki. Why does Wikipedia even have them? Does anyone actually read them? Tezero (talk) 20:46, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I assume they're supposed to be the 'public face' of their respective areas, whereas wikiprojects are geared towards editors and behind the scenes stuff. Sam Walton (talk) 20:58, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I know that's the intent, but... I mean, who actually goes on Wikipedia and says, "Y'know, I haven't checked out the Paramecia, Uganda, or Abandoned Amusement Parks portals lately"? The more I think about it, the more self-affirming it seems that they're just something else for us to busy ourselves with before an empty theater. Tezero (talk) 21:07, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
200+ a day apparently, though I have no idea how many of those actually use it to find anything or consider it useful. It is linked to from a lot of places though. Sam Walton (talk) 21:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I stand corrected. Nonetheless, 200-and-change views a day really isn't that many - it's comparable to Amy Rose's viewership. Imagine assigning some kind of maintenance team just to her article. ...Actually, I hate to say it, but is there anything preventing us from just scrapping the news section and switching it out for an auto-rotated display of FA, FL, and GA content? Tezero (talk) 02:15, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
After I stopped having time for it I removed ITN from the portal main page (it's still a subpage somewhere) so actually all the portal really does now is link to various places and show some featured content. Sam Walton (talk) 14:21, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Howrse Online[edit]

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Howrse Online has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No independent reliable sources back up this article. 3 "references" to the website of the game, and one reference to a "Answers" site which is user contributed content and not reliable.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Hasteur (talk) 12:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Coverage of competitive Pokémon?[edit]

Forgive me if this does appear in a stable format somewhere on Wikipedia, but I haven't seen it and I suspect not: I think it'd be prudent to write a bit about the competitive Pokémon scene. I couldn't say whether it's actually expanding in importance, but it's certainly gaining media coverage: US Gamer just did a very lengthy piece on the competitive Pokémon and Super Smash Bros. scenes. (Despite my strong personal feelings against the fan-developed competitive scenes of both franchises, especially Smash '​s, I appreciate this article's staunch objectivity.) I also remember seeing another article a couple months ago from one of the large networks like GameSpot or IGN about competitive Pokémon, but I can't locate it now - has anyone seen this or any other usable sources?

Also, where and how should this competitive scene be covered, assuming suitable sources are located? Tezero (talk) 07:07, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

For individual games, within their respective articles (perhaps dedicated sections). They can always spin out summary style. There's all kinds of stuff on competitive Smash and Pokémon, but I haven't seen enough to warrant dedicated articles czar  07:15, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

WWE 2K15 for PC?[edit]

I am just curious. Is there a PC version of WWE 2K15 in development? I don't think the publisher 2K or the developer Visual Concepts has confirmed it, but it was listed in a Korean Game Rating Boards and was briefly shown in the WWE Network promos. So is the PC version confirmed?

Some Journalists uses the word "confirmed": http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/09/22/wwe-2k15-confirmed-for-pc-release/106812/ While some call it a "rumor": http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/rumor-wwe-2k15-released-pc-2015/
--AdrianGamer (talk) 13:05, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

According to that first link (which is more reliable than your second), yes. As you can see, there isn't official developer word on this. czar  15:30, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

RFC on bias in Gamergate controversy article[edit]

Please comment on this RFC regarding bias issues in the article on the Gamergate controversy. --MASEM (t) 05:41, 26 October 2014 (UTC)