Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales

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WikiProject Wales (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Editathon and Wiki-skills training in Swansea[edit]

Learning wiki editing skills;
Swansea, 21 January 2014.

An Editathon and a Wiki-skills training session will take place in Swansea Library on Sunday 26th January. We will enhance articles on Dr Emily Phipps and on Seren Gomer. I've started a page here, but feel free to enhance or suggest a better way of letting people know about this event. Thanks. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 16:26, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to all who came to the Editathon! A very successful day. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:53, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Multiple reverts on Welsh people of Irish descent[edit]

Hi folks. I'm seeking some arbitration here on cases of reverts. I added the Category Welsh people of Irish descent to a number of Welsh people who - going by their surname - I thought it would be obvious that they were of Irish descent. They were:

These, and a number of other edits such as William Connolly (VC) were likewise reverted by User:PeeJay2K3.

I am more than willing to believe that this is just a case of a fellow editor abiding by the rules, if zealously. I don't want to start an edit war. But I find it hard to believe that anyone could consider any of the above surnames as originating anywhere but Ireland

and so wonder if said editor is being mischevious. Thus I am putting the issue before you. Is mise, Fergananim (talk) 16:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Our discussion on the subject can be found here on my talk page here:
You should probably post this at WP:WALES, not here. – PeeJay 18:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Am now doing so. Ooops. Fergananim (talk) 17:59, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
It sounds a bit over the top to sub categorise people because their name sounds a bit Irish! I'm inclined to support whoever is reverting the unsubstantiated edits. Sionk (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
Concur, a surname could go back many generations and the person may not be born in Ireland or have any Irish grandparents, making them fairly disconnected from the country or lineage. We can't assume Irish descent, otherwise that may make Cleopatra Jones Welsh. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
I stress that I was not claiming any of these people as Irish, but of Irish descent. There is a difference. And there is nothing that is "a bit Irish" about the surnames concerned - they are unambigiously Irish, if anglacised - which is why I picked them. These are not forenames, which can and are adopted on an ad-hoc basis. Surnames by their very nature tend to be handed down for generations, thus indicating national origins, and I am astonished that this point is not understood. By these means we can yet identify people of Welsh descent in Ireland, hundreds of years after their ancestors left Wales. Nevertheless, I take your points, so I would ask your collective opinion on how many generations must pass before the term "of Irish descent" no longer applies? Fergananim (talk) 00:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that "numbers of generations" is something that we can arbitrarily decide on. Unless there is concrete, direct evidence that these people are of Irish descent (beyond their surnames), you can't categorise them as such. – PeeJay 00:40, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Exactly. There are always the surname articles, listed above, which link to notable people with that surname. People don't keep the same surname - maybe because of marriage, illegitimate birth, adoption, falling out with the family, name changes for professional reasons etc. Concluding they have Irish roots amounts to guesswork. Sionk (talk) 01:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Which was why I only tagged those who bore Irish surnames, Sionk. I'm certain that if you made a random sample of other players who bear non-Irish surnames you'd find a few with Irish ancestry. But in their maternal line. Which is why sire names, or surnames, exist. In these islands, they have usually been of patrilineal and patronymic origin, and passed down for generations in the male line. Many have been using them since their ancestors adopted them a thousand years ago, and scientific DNA research bears this out. There are always exceptions, but they too prove the rule. So on that basis, PeeJay - and because as you rightly point out we cannot arbitarily decide on how many generations is the cut-off - I feel that the surname is a good indicator of descent. In fact when bearing an Irish surname, it should taken as given that the person is of Irish descent, and proving otherwise is up to the editor or family genealogist. Fergananim (talk) 17:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
Total hokum, I'm afraid. It's not up to anyone to prove someone doesn't has Irish ancestry, it's up to the categoriser to prove that they do. Effectively you're creating a category called "Welsh people with Irish surnames", which is little use to anyone. Sionk (talk) 19:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I thought I'd investigate by having a look at the list of people with the surname Connolly do see what usage there was of ".....people of Irish descent". This led me to the Category for Scottish people of Irish descent. This category includes the following notice:

(In accordance with Wikipedia:Categories, the applicability of the category should be based on a consensus that the connection to Ireland is important enough to include in the article text before this category can properly be considered.)

This seems like common sense. Should this notice be added to the Category for Welsh people of Irish descent? I think it should. It does imply that the category should not be used just because someone has an Irish surname, only if it has some relevance to the details in the article (for example, that the person's Irish grandmother sang Irish songs to them in their childhood, or that the person maintained links with their old home town in Ireland, or that their Irish descent has had some sort of impact on their life). Robevans123 (talk) 18:51, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, everyone. There's no point in having a disagreement if you can't learn something from it. Cheers! Fergananim (talk) 10:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Feedback request: VisualEditor special character inserter[edit]

The developers are working towards offering mw:VisualEditor to all users at about 50 Wikipedias that have complex language requirements, like Welsh. Many editors at these Wikipedias depend on being able to insert special characters to be able to write articles.

A special character inserter tool is available in VisualEditor now. They would like to know what you think about this tool, especially if you speak languages other than English. To try the Special character tool, please:

Screenshot of TranslateWiki interface
The “insert” pulldown on the task bar of VisualEditor will lead you to the ‘Special character’ tool.
Screenshot of Special Characters tool
This is the Special character inserter. Your feedback on this tool is particularly important.

To let the developers know what you think, please leave them a message with your comments and the language(s) that you tested at the feedback thread on or here at the English Wikipedia at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. It is really important that the developers hear from as many editors as possible. Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Living Paths project releases Welsh images[edit]

The following photographs have been released / uploaded by the Living Path Project. Please use them!

Nearly 2,000 images taken by John Thomas

These are now on Commons. High-res versions have been requested.

Over 2,000 contributions by members of the Project

Others will be released over the next few months, I'll let you know as they come. Thanks to all of you who have written articles or contributed to the project. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move of Newport[edit]

A requested moves discussion has been started at Talk:Newport#Requested_move on a proposal to rename the article Newport to Newport, Wales.

This article falls within the scope of this project, so project members may wish to contribute to discussion. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:09, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Arthur Gould (rugby union) at FAC[edit]

Members of this project may be interested to know that the article Arthur Gould (rugby union) – on the famous Welsh rugby union player – has been nominated at WP:FAC. The nomination page can be viewed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Arthur Gould (rugby union)/archive1. -- Shudde talk 23:15, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Straw poll at Talk:Wales[edit]

Editors' opinions are requested at Talk:Wales#Straw poll on the wording of the paragraph reporting the 2011 census results on national identity. Views welcome. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:59, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Error on Kings of Wales family trees[edit]

Dear Sir / Madam,

I can´t read the top and bottom parts of the family tree in "Kings of Wales family trees". Is there an error or is there some way to see the page properly?


Alan ChisholmChisholmAlan (talk) 22:43, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I've asked someone at WP:VPT to take a look. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
PS: It seems to work fine on Internet Explorer, and Firefox, but not on Google Chrome. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: Welsh people of Irish descent[edit]

As I don't wish to cause any more controversy, I want to know if the editors have any objections to adding Ó hAonghusa to the Terry Hennessey article under the title "See also"? Likewise, I would like to do the same to other Welsh people who bear Irish surnames. Is mise, Fergananim (talk) 01:15, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

I object as I don't see how the two articles are linked, other than Hennessey having a surname that is derived from said Irish name. There is no concrete link between the two articles. – PeeJay 03:22, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Agree with Peejay. These articles are about the people, not the possible origins of their surnames. Sionk (talk) 14:26, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Template talk:Europe topic[edit]

Some Welsh input is desperately needed on here just now.--MacRùsgail (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


Hello, I am an administrator on Commons. While working on the UK-related categories I stumbled in this flaw on which has las lasted for more than 2 years. Maybe you may want to check whether the bot has done other errors. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 09:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Bryn Hafod, Llannerch-y-medd[edit]

I am considering putting up Bryn Hafod, Llannerch-y-medd for deletion. It seems to be far too small to warrant an article; and streetmaps [1] indicates that it does not even get named on the 1:25000 series. Any comments before I start? Twiceuponatime (talk) 08:07, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes places may not be notable in the 21st or even 20th century, but there could be some earlier history which it would be a shame to lose, as I have found in my area of north Pembrokeshire. If Bryn Hafod was mentioned in the Llannerch-y-medd article (which itself is quite sparse for a community) it would at least come up in Wiki searches. It might be worth a trawl through Welsh Newspapers Online, the National Library and local council, etc. to see if there's any interesting historical stuff. Maybe someone local if poss? Tony Holkham (talk) 09:07, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
The creator has accepted my proposal; and I have asked him to add
{{db-author|rationale=settlement too small for article}}
to the article. This matter should now be closed. Twiceuponatime (talk) 10:29, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Language used for place names[edit]

Is there a formal policy or guideline regarding the language to be used for place names in article text, where the place name is not the subject of the article? I've found Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) but it's not clear. The specific case is whether it is appropriate to use the Welsh name piped back to the English (i.e. [[Anglesey|Ynys Môn]]) or the English name, unpiped (i.e. [[Anglesey]]). There is a discussion at Template talk:Infobox UK place#Settlements in Anglesey. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)