Talk:Phillis Wheatley

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Origins

Phillis Wheatley was born in Senegal and sold in Boston age 7. How did she get to Boston? Caught by a local chief's war party and sold, or what? Some detail about her early life would be welcome. 71.202.17.218 (talk) 05:20, 15 December 2009 (UTC) Unfortunately, we don't know much about her early life. I would like to know too, but that isn't always possible. Noghiri (talk) 19:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Unless someone manages to get her bones, or some other DNA, she probably will never have her origins found totally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TepidTangent (talk • contribs) 20:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I will come back and edit this later--the biography of Wheatley by Vincent Carretta from last year is excellent and gives some more information on this. However, I am struggling to get the birthdate corrected: there's no way we can know her date of birth; May 8 is a fiction of unknown origins, so far as I am aware. I can't seem to change the information in the box to the right without introducing an error. Alas i am (talk)Alas I Am —Preceding undated comment added 14:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Correction Needed

Contrary to the first sentence, Wheatley was not the first African American woman to publish poetry in the United States. As another Wikipedia article recognizes, that was Lucy Terry. The introduction needs rewriting. Jlockard 08:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Wheatley was in fact the first Black woman to publish a collection of poetry in the United States. Lucy Terry Prince was the first recognized Black author of a work of literature in the United States. The difference being that Prince's "Bars Fight" was not published until 1855, where until that time it was preserved as an oral work and was generally known locally around the town of Deerfield. Wheatley by contrast had her work read widely in the then Anerican colonies and countries abroad because they had been published. The introduction therefore should stand. Ladydayelle 14:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The introduction currently states that she was " the first published African-American woman and first published African-American poet," but even the cited source refers to her as the second. I haven't read "Trials of Phillis Wheatley: America's Second Black Poet and Her Encounters with the Founding Fathers" by Henry Louis Gates, so I don't know who he refers to as America's first black poet. The title of his work also doesn't indicate if he is referring to a published poet. However, Jupiter Hammon was the first published African-American poet, not Wheatley or Lucy Terry. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/jupiter-hammon — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoCrawfish (talk • contribs) 10:42, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Based on what you said, Wheatley was still the first to be "published." That's what the article says.--Alabamaboy 15:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I say that Phillis Wheatly is the FIRST BLACK WOMAN WIRTER IN AMERICA to have a book publised(it say so in my history book)

CORRECTION NEEDED: Intro, states Phillis Wheatley was 'Emancipated' by her masters. Improper word, Emancipation is a legal changing of status for an entire group, MANUMISSION is the voluntary freeing of slaves or otherwise bonded persons by their 'masters'. MANUMISSION is the proper word, not Emancipation. Emancipation would not come until the 1860's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.18.201.232 (talk) 14:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Her Real Name

I lived in Senegal for quite some time. I am wondering, what was her real name? It could have been Fatima, Ouley, Aby... It also strikes me that she should be considered the first African American poet... when in fact she was not an African American, but a transplanted Senegalese. Senegal has produced many great intellects, pre and post-colonialisation. So that Wheatley (or whatever her real name was) was able to adapt western knowledge and build upon it, isn't really that surprising, or even note worthy.Gdxilla 18:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Based on what you said about Wheatley not being an African-American, who knows she might of wanted to be called an African-American and not a "transplanted Senegalese" as you say! So you(and everyone else) can't make assumptions of what/who she was.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.56.237.66 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The term "African-American" wasn't even in use yet during her life time.

She was a first generation American, born elsewhere. We do not call first generation Japanese-Americans 'transplanted Japanese', note.

Wheatly was taken by force. Japanese-Americans came to the USA by choice. "Transplanted" seems to be an accurate term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.143 (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, her poem beginning 'Twas mercy brought me from my Pagan land' suggests she was glad to have left!

Yet died lonely, shunned and miserable in the USA at 31!

It is not quite on topic, but who are these great pre-colonial Senegalese intellects? And how it is they did not develop beyond the Iron Age?

Women in Imperial Djolof

Women were influential in government, however. The Linger or Queen Mother was head of all Wolof women and very influential in state politics. She owned a number of villages which cultivated farms and paid tribute directly to her. There were also other female chiefs whose main task was judging cases involving women. In the empire's most northern state of Walo, women could aspire to the office of Bur and rule the state.[7]

George Washington

The poem Wheatley wrote in 1770 that began her fame was a poem to George Whitefield after his death, not a poetic tribute to George Washington.

In 1770 Wheatley wrote a poetic tribute to George Washington that received widespread acclaim.

She later wrote a poem in 1776 to Washington, but this was not the one that began her widespread acclaim as previously stated in this article. Correction made. Steviedpeele 20:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

ALSO-what of this Thomas Jefferson had it reprinted in the Pennsylvania Gazette??? Is that s'posed to be FRANKLIN (who had something to do with the PA Gazette while Jefferson DIDN'T AND b/c she was going to dedicate her 2nd proposed volume to Franklin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.27.162.251 (talk) 15:46, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

[i posted the above comment...] in doing some reading around, looks like Thomas PAINE was the one who republished the Washington poem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.27.162.251 (talk) 16:11, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

References and External Links

A large portion of the "References" section seems to consist of external links instead. Indeed, there aren't any footnote-style references at all on the page, which is what I usually see "References" listed as. I'm moving the links that are clearly not "references" into a section titled External Links. If anybody wants to go in and figure out more thoroughly which is which, please do. TheStripèdOne 17:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

In fact what I have ended up doing is just moving all the web pages into external links and leaving the book cites in references. TheStripèdOne 17:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Phyllis Wheatley's Manumission

The "Phyllis Wheatley" page says she was manumitted on 18 October 1773, but the "OCtober 18" page says she was manumitted in 1775. Which is correct? Esaons 14:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Peters

In some sources she is called Philis Wheatley (Peters) or sometimes just Wheatley Peters. --CopperKettle 14:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Has there been any information found that suggests where Phillis' husband John Peters may have ended up? It suggests that he may had have some of her poems when he disappeared.TepidTangent (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2009 (U

Per this scholarship () can the page be renamed to Phillis Wheatley Peters and her name adjusted throughout? 2600:1700:5658:3D10:D06B:4BC:CEA8:21A9 (talk) 13:59, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

WHY DID WE FORGET THE DEAD

why did alot of people forget about her after she died? did they not really care about her alot when she was alive? was the only reason people remebered her was because she was the first black poet and they were astonished? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.34.245 (talk) 00:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Possible Inconsistencies and confusion

In the 'Later Life' section, it says that she was freed from slavery in 1773 after her visit to London. Later, it says that she was freed in 1778 when John Wheatley died. Clarification would be a good idea. Noghiri (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

I thought that John Wheatley adopted her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ctconserv (talk • contribs) 13:00, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I can find the information on her being adopted NOWHERE else. It obviously is at the very least poorly worded, because if true, it didn't "keep her" from being a slave, since she was a slave when she arrived. This information about adoption, and the idea that it's a common custom, is unsourced, and contradicts the information about her being freed from slavery later (1773? 1778?). Jlewis123 (talk) 12:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

When she visited London... it had a law already that freed any slave that stepped on british soil, but it is unknown if Phillis knew that. And I dont know if that form of manumission would have been legally standing upon return to the US. It could be she was summoned home using Susanna's illness as an excuse so she would not gain the knowledge that is she stayed in london she would have been free. Or so that she WOULD return to Boston where her london manumission was no longer valid, That is the first historical citation of manumission however. The next came after Susanna died, it is possible that that came about because Susannas friends were aware that she wished Phillis freed at her death, at any rate she remained with the Wheatleys until Johns Death, it could very well be because despite London's laws, and Susanna's wishes, John did not free her. When he died his son Nathaniel was still in London and his daughter was married and away from home already and maybe just didn't want Phillis??? None of this is sourceable because there is no record that I can find, this is just what I can make of the reasoning behind her three different historical manumission dates. Without any record we don't really know what happened. So if there is more record, i would be interested in knowing. We just know that those three occassions are widely mentioned in her history. Not the reasoning behind them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.55.180.8 (talk) 04:20, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Mentioned by newshounds.us

This article was discussed in an online article by Newshounds.us —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 23:26, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

she was not adopted this is made up history —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.162.130.98 (talk) 23:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

While there is well over two centuries worth of printed evidence that Mrs Wheatley was indeed a slave, there is no actual evidence of official manumission in Phyllis' life. (This is why it is impossible to answer the question of when she was actually manumitted, we know she was told of her freedom while in london, but was not actually officially freed upon her return, other sources say she was freed upon Mrs. Wheatleys death, but the fact is she did not leave the possession of the Wheatleys until after Johns death thoughts on her manumission seem speculative) nor is there ANYTHING in print to support an adoption by the Wheatleys, or even any evidence to support the Wheatleys supposedly being "Good Christian Abolitionists, purchasing and adopting to keep her from being a slave"

In Fact, the first biography of Phyllis, Written by Margaretta Matilda O'Dell (A white relation of the Wheatleys, I think) said the following about the slaves, plural... of the Wheatleys. This does not point to any abolitionist beliefs on behalf of the Wheatley's, in fact it directly contradicts that.

Quote: MEMOIR. PHILLIS WHEATLEY was a native of Africa; and was brought to this country in the year 1761, and sold as a slave.

She was purchased by Mr. John Wheatley, a respectable citizen of Boston. This gentleman, at the time of the purchase, was already the owner of several slaves; but the females in his possession were getting something beyond the active periods of life, and Mrs. Wheatley wished to obtain a young negress, with the view of training her up under her own eye, that she might, by gentle usage, secure to herself a faithful domestic in her old age.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/wheatley/wheatley.html

To support that biographys claim, following are pages directly taken from her published work, written in her lifetime, and surviving as a matter of public record today: The book printed not one but two letters of attestation to her status as a slave. One signed by John Wheatley himself and the other signed by seventeen men of historical stature in Boston, Including Several men of God, and John Hancock, signatory to no less than the US Declaration of independence. They clearly state her position as being that of a slave. I would think that someone of an abolitionist mindset would not proudly proclaim his ownership of a person in a book meant for wide circulation among the intellectual gentry.

Quote: Phillis was brought from Africa to America, in the Year 1761, between Seven and Eight Years of Age. Without any Assistance from School Education, and by only what she was taught in the Family, she, in sixteen Months Time from her Arrival, attained the English Language, to which she was an utter Stranger before, to such a Degree, as to read any, the most difficult Parts of the Sacred Writings, to the great Astonishment of all who heard her. As to her WRITING, her own Curiosity led her to it; and this she learnt in so short a Time, that in the Year 1765, she wrote a LETTER to the Rev. Mr. Occom, the Indian Minister, while in England. She has a great Inclination to learn the Latin Tongue, and has made some Progress in it. This Relation is given by her Master who bought her, and with whom she now lives. John Wheatley. Boston, Nov. 14, 1772."

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:John_Wheatley_letter.jpg (that was a transcription of the photo of the original on the Wheatley wikimedia link, therefore probably not sufficent to survive the edit process on the actual definition page, As wikis are not thought to be sufficient sourcing of other wikis... the actual text is available in many other places on the net for anyone wishing to do the research)

Quote: We, whose names are under-written, do assure the World, that the Poems specified in the following Page*

• The words 'following Page,' allude to the contents of the Manuscript Copy, which are wrote at the Back of the above Attestation.

were, (as we verily believe) written by Phillis, a young Negro Girl, who was but a few years since, brought an uncultivated barbarian from Africa, and has ever since been, and now is, under the disadvantage of serving as a slave in a Family in this Town. She has been examined by some of the best Judges, and is thought qualified to write them.

HIS EXCELLENCY THOMAS HUTCHISON, Governor, The HON. ANDREW OLIVER, Lieut. Gov. The HON. THOMAS HUBBARD, The HON. JOHN ERVING, The HON. JAMES PITTS, The HON. HARRISON GRAY, The HON. JAMES BOWDOIN, JOHN HANCOCK, ESQ. JOSEPH GREEN, Esq. RICHARD CAREY, Esq. The REV. CHARLES CHAUNCEY, D. D. The REV. MATTHEW BYLES, D. D. The REV. EDWARD PEMBERTON, D. D. The REV. ANDREW ELLIOT, D. D. The REV. SAMUEL COOPER, D. D. The REV. MR. SAMUEL MATHER, The REV. MR. JOHN MOORHEAD, MR. JOHN WHEATLEY, (her Master.) N. B.-- The original Attestation, signed by the above Gentlemen, may be seen by applying to Archibald Bell, Bookseller, No. 8 Aldgate Street.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/wheatley/wheatley.html

In Case there is any doubt about Phyllis Wheatleys own feelings in the matter of her status as a slave, the letter referred to by Mr. Wheatley in the preface to her book, to a Mr. Occam makes clear her feelings, following is the text:

Quote: Reverend and honoured Sir,

"I have this day received your obliging kind epistle, and am greatly satisfied with your reasons respecting the negroes, and think highly reasonable what you offer in vindication of their natural rights: Those that invade them cannot be insensible that the divine light is chasing away the thick darkness which broods over the land of Africa; and the chaos which has reigned so long, is converting into beautiful order, and reveals more and more clearly the glorious dispensation of civil and religious liberty, which are so inseparably united, that there is little or no enjoyment of one without the other: Otherwise, perhaps, the Israelites had been less solicitous for their freedom from Egyptian slavery; I do not say they would have been contented without it, by no means; for in every human breast God has implanted a principle, which we call ~ it is impatient of oppression, and pants for deliverance; and by the leave of our modern Egyptians I will assert, that the same principle lives in us. God grant deliverance in his own way and time, and get him honour upon all those whose avarice impels them to countenance and help forward the calamities of their fellow creatures. This I desire not for their hurt, but to convince them of the strange absurdity of their conduct, whose words and actions are so diametrically opposite. How well the cry for liberty, and the reverse disposition for the exercise of oppressive power over others agree - I humbly think it does not require the penetration of a philosopher to determine."

http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap2/wheatley.html

As for the assertion that Phyllis Wheatley was "Given" the name of the Wheatley family by adoption or out of kindness, many would take offense to that. While It is entirely possible, and indeed not impossible to imagine by analysis of her history, that the Wheatleys were very kind to Phyllis, The use of thier name is not in itself an example of unusual kindness towards her. African Americans during slavery quite often went by the surnames of thier owners for public purposes. So often that upon abolition or the more rare manumission, many chose to keep those surnames if given the choice, as that is how they identified themselves for the length of thier ownership. In Wheatleys case, It is clear that the name Wheatley is a name of convenience. Much Like her first name, Phyllis, being the same as the name of the ship that carried her to America. It would be interesting if there were thorough records of post abolition boston, making clear how many Wheatley family slaves were freed upon abolitions passage, and to find out how many of them chose to keep the name Wheatley, or If they, due to thier status as non favored slaves, were not given that choice. Does anyone know how to find this info?

One way to determine if Phyillis was indeed thought of as a family member is to compare the circumstances of her later life to that of the Wheatleys biological children. There is just not any record indicating that either of them perished in abject poverty. There is, in O'Dell's biography some blame placed on Phyllisses husband for her circumstances. And an admission that the family did not like him, but her status as a Wheatley relation might have influenced her biography to excuse the Wheatleys and scapegoat the Husband. She does assert that Phyllis was given the proceeds from her book, but there is not a survivng record as far as I can see. So we can't really know, but the fact is, If those assertions are correct, and her husband had taken advantage of her and squandered her fortune in just a few short years, he was out of the picture prior to her death, the Wheatley children could have indeed opened thier home or at least seen to it that she lived in some degree of comfort.

In my mind this is all an indication of Phyllises status as a well liked slave, not a family member. of course this is purely opinion and not sourceable. - pezwisdomNJ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.239.24.65 (talk) 03:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

early life

question about this line in early life section 'She was purchased in Boston by John Wheatley, one of the most progressive figures of the colony' Is there any citations or evidence of John Wheatley having been progressive? especially of him having been 'one of the most progressive figures of the colony?' I would think that the great progressives of the colony have all been heavily recorded in history, I cant seem to find out much about John Wheatley in any other context other than his purchasing a little girl and teaching her to read. Since a good number of slaves were taught to read and write if the skills were necessary for thier use, and as a house slave and companion slave, Phillis would need the skills to handle her mistress' correspondence. i dont know if that qualifies him as a progressive. Slavery was abolished in Boston very shortly after Phillis' multiple episodes of 'manumission' so it would seem John Wheatley continued the purchasing of people long after it was the norm. HEr purchase certainly happened at a time when abolition was being spoken of and the idea of slavery was being actively questioned. Boston in fact, became a free state in 1783 a full year BEFORE Phillis' death. She was among the very last generation of boston slaves purchased. Unless there is evidence of Mr. Wheatley being a progressive in other matters, I think that the description of him needs removal. I have searched and can find nothing.

The fact that she was allowed to aquire more knowledge than was necessary for her duties was certainly unusual, but it was exceedingly unusual to purchase a child. And her status as a precocious child and the novelty of her learning so quickly is undoubtably what led the Wheatleys to continue to teach her. Not a progressive nature among the family. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.55.180.8 (talk) 03:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

http://www.masshist.org/endofslavery/?queryID=54 reference to Mass. history of abolition, slaves petitioning for and legally winning thier freedom in 1781 with abolition official in 1783. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.55.180.8 (talk) 04:49, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Hammon's poem to Wheatley

Though I agree with eliminating unsourced claims (changes done by anonymous on Nov. 26 2015), I think the section mentioning Hammon's poem is too bare and explains nothing about it. Someone knowledgeable or interested in researching this topic could make this article stronger by improving this section.

Sorry, I did not signed my previous comments. Historiador (talk) 14:27, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Added. Icarus of old (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

@Icarus of old: Thanks. I linked the citation to an universally accessible file I found and changed the text to reflect a neutral POV in reference to "pagan." It is also how the author of the article you cited worded it. Again, thanks. Historiador (talk) 16:05, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Phillis Wheatley/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

If Wheatley was born in 1753, then how was her first poem titled "On the death of Rev. Mr. George Whitefield, 1770", and how was she 14 years of age when she wrote this?

Last edited at 00:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 02:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Statue of Phillis Wheatley, the first published African American female poet.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:37, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

citation for "citation needed" re slave surnames

“A Perspective on Indexing Slaves’ Names” (pdf), by David E. Patterson, in the American Archivist. https://www.americanarchivist.org/doi/pdf/10.17723/aarc.64.1.th18g8t6282h4283

98.243.51.84 (talk) 18:06, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm adding this. Good source. deisenbe (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

African American

Readers, is Wheatley an African American? I think she is. If not, what is she? African-Massachusetts colony? An African, instead of African American, in London? What do others think? deisenbe (talk) 16:25, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

• • The category not only invokes African-Americans, but being in the UK. Wheatley died 17 years before the UK was formed, so she can in no way be placed in a UK category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:39, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Wheatley died in 1784. The United Kingdom was created in 1801. It is impossible for her to be in any UK category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:38, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

I already know Johnpacklambert's view of the question. My inquiry is to find out what others think is correct. deisenbe (talk) 09:23, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Restatement of my query on African American and UK

Readers, is Wheatley an African American? I think she is. If not, what is she? African-Massachusetts colony? An African, instead of African American, in London? What do others think? deisenbe (talk) 12:25 pm, Yesterday (UTC−4)

Musical Compositions related to Phillis Wheatley's works

In 2019 John Muehleisen composed the SATB choral work "Imagination! Who Can Sing Thy Force?" using the Phillis Wheatley poem "On Imagination" as its text. Its world-premiere was June 12, 2022 performed by the Donald Brinegar Singers, Pasadena, California. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elisheva29 (talk • contribs) 20:22, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

list of Phillis Wheatley works

Recently a list of Phillis Wheatley's works was removed from this article, apparently a well-meaning attempt to comply with our WP:ELNEVER guideline, which says copyrighted materials should not be linked (with some exceptions).

While Phillis Wheatley's works undoubtedly were copyrighted, my understanding is that they have all fallen out of copyright. So WP:ELNEVER is no longer relevant to any of them. So I restored that list. --DavidCary (talk) 16:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

@DavidCary:, the chief problem with these links is WP:LINKSTOAVOID, #2: "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research, except to a limited extent in articles about the viewpoints that the site is presenting.". Each link has the clause: 'Transcription, correction, editorial commentary, and markup by Students and Staff of Marymount University.' Adding unverifiable information should not be included. Thanks, Jip Orlando (talk) 16:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

New citation

I have found a citation to support the claim that Phillis Wheatley's infant son passed soon after Phillis' passing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgrwWuaRuso, hopefully this would be a good addition to the article. Sincerely, 49.192.44.178 (talk) 10:40, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022

Phyllis Wheatly was born in Senegal, West Africa. It is unfair to remove her identity as a Senegalese woman. Here is a source https://www.umb.edu/academics/cla/about/meet_phillis_wheatley#:~:text=A%20pioneering%20African%2DAmerican%20poet,servant%20for%20his%20wife%2C%20Susanna. Antiinaccuracy (talk) 23:16, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

 Already done The article already acknowledges that she was born in either The Gambia or Senegal. There appears conflicting sourcing on which particular country it is, but it is one of those two. Curbon7 (talk) 05:16, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2022

Section: Poetry

The quote from The London Magazine of 1773 is not only wrong, it actually misrepresents the original in two places. Here is a correct transcription (I've substituted "s" for archaic "long s" in spots): These poems display no astonishing power of genius; but when we consider them as the productions of a young untutored African, who wrote them after six months casual study of the English language and of writing, we cannot suppress our admiration of talents so vigorous and lively. See original here to check my work. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:19, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. Good eye. Phil wink (talk) 15:35, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Phyllis Wheatley Circle, need clarity

The article currently states that a "Phyllis Wheatley Circle" was founded in two different years. Is this supposed to refer to such groups formed in two different cities? Pete unseth (talk) 15:32, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

typo

I'm not yet established, so I'm throwing it here in case someone sees it, in the first sentence of the section Later life, there's a typo in the word primarily. thanks, Saeleriela (talk) 17:42, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:18, 23 February 2024 (UTC)