Talk:Solomon I
(Redirected from Talk:Solomon I of Imereti)
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 | On 20 May 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Solomon I of Imereti to Solomon I. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Requested move 20 May 2024[edit]
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 00:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
– WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT; WP:SOVEREIGN. An emperor ✖ 17:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 23:12, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support neither appear to even be ambiguous. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- I would be slightly concerned about confusing "Solomon I" for Solomon or Solomon, King of Hungary. BD2412 T 19:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. A regnal numeral does not seem to be used at all for Solomon, King of Hungary, so there is no ambiguity. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. There's Solomon I (bishop of Constance) and Solomon II (bishop of Constance). Then there's Salomon I and Salomon II, which is just a spelling variant. Compare fr:Salomon II d'Iméréthie. And see de:Salomon I. for some others. We should have a dab page that cover both spellings. Srnec (talk) 20:25, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- But the Imereti monarchs are already primary redirects, and rightly so based on pageviews [1][2] which confirm that they easily meet WP:PT1. Monarchs are also likely to meet WP:PT2 compared with obscure medieval bishops. Variants with differently spelled WP:COMMONNAMEs provide natural disambiguation per WP:SMALLDETAILS; different transliterations in French and German don't affect the subjects' COMMONNAMEs on enwiki. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- The whole problem with applying NCROY in this way is that even an expert on modern Georgia who knows these monarchs well does not necessarily know that "Solomon II", on its own, devoid of context, should be taken to refer to one of them. Solomon is a common name and not distinctly Georgian. Witness its use by German bishops and Ethiopian emperors. It isn't like Chlothar II or Bayezid II. The numeral attaches to it not to indicate that Solomon II is the second Solomon but that he is the second Solomon of something. Srnec (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The whole point of NCROY is to set out how we name the articles of monarchs whose countries share the same namestock. It doesn't matter whether we are talking extremely common royal names such as Charles (UK, France, Sweden, Spain, Hungary, Romania, etc.) or less common ones such as Solomon (Georgia, Ethiopia, etc.), the principles are exactly the same. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:00, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- But why do we need to limit NCROY to countries that share the same namestock? Aren't you saying that there is no difference between how we treat Chlothar II, Bayezid II and Solomon II? I am saying their ought to be a difference. To that end, we should interpret ambiguity strictly. Both you and Crouch started off claiming no ambiguity, but when ambiguity is demonstrated the argument shifts to primary topic. In fact, if we had had a proper dab page, you never would have been mistaken in the first place. Srnec (talk) 00:19, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- The whole point of NCROY is to set out how we name the articles of monarchs whose countries share the same namestock. It doesn't matter whether we are talking extremely common royal names such as Charles (UK, France, Sweden, Spain, Hungary, Romania, etc.) or less common ones such as Solomon (Georgia, Ethiopia, etc.), the principles are exactly the same. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:00, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- The whole problem with applying NCROY in this way is that even an expert on modern Georgia who knows these monarchs well does not necessarily know that "Solomon II", on its own, devoid of context, should be taken to refer to one of them. Solomon is a common name and not distinctly Georgian. Witness its use by German bishops and Ethiopian emperors. It isn't like Chlothar II or Bayezid II. The numeral attaches to it not to indicate that Solomon II is the second Solomon but that he is the second Solomon of something. Srnec (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- But the Imereti monarchs are already primary redirects, and rightly so based on pageviews [1][2] which confirm that they easily meet WP:PT1. Monarchs are also likely to meet WP:PT2 compared with obscure medieval bishops. Variants with differently spelled WP:COMMONNAMEs provide natural disambiguation per WP:SMALLDETAILS; different transliterations in French and German don't affect the subjects' COMMONNAMEs on enwiki. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support per primary topic for that specific spelling, but hatnotes and/or disambiguation pages can be added to avoid confusion with all the names mentioned above. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 11:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.