User talk:Dynaflow: Difference between revisions
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{{sockpuppet|SummerThunder}} |
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'''<font color="green">Unless you already have a heading going, ''please leave new messages at the bottom of the page''. Click the "watch" tab at the top of the page and keep an eye on your watchlist; I will generally respond to messages left here, here. Some important and/or interesting, but distributed, conversations may be centralized here after the fact. I will do my best to retain timelines and textual fidelity, but if I screw it up, feel free to let me know. Thanks.</font>''' |
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===The Internet, where intelligence goes to die:=== |
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nazi censorship police states are wrong, please refrain from defacing legitmate concernskthnx! <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:24.27.18.25|24.27.18.25]] ([[User talk:24.27.18.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.27.18.25|contribs]]){{#if: 18:18, 17 April 2007|  18:18, 17 April 2007 PDT|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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[[OCD]] patient dynaflow has [[Internet addiction]], he needs to get a life and a job. and some serious psychological therapy. |
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:Your edits will continue to be reverted by me or other editors if they do not contribute constructively to the discussion. Conspiracy theories involving Karl Rove and the Virginia Tech shooting are not constructive. Thank you. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 01:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::this man is a nazi apologist-----^<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User: 24.27.18.25| 24.27.18.25]] ([[User talk: 24.27.18.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ 24.27.18.25|contribs]]){{#if:18:29, 17 April 2007| 18:29, 17 April 2007 PDT|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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:::Man, I love [[Godwin's law]]. This tedious conversation is over already. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 01:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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=='''Welcome!'''== |
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Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and [[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: |
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*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]] |
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*[[Help:Contents|Help pages]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Tutorial]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:Article development|How to write a great article]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] |
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|sign your name]] on talk pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! - [[User:Darwinek|Darwinek]] 09:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== Re. [[Dolores Park]] == |
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:{{RFPP|u}} Had been protected for some time, the war is likely over now. Thanks for contacting me. Regards, <strong><font style="color: #082567">[[User:Husond|Hús]]</font>[[User:Husond/Esperanza|<font color="green">ö</font>]]<font style="color: #082567">[[User talk:Husond|nd]]</font></strong> 13:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC) |
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==SFPD== |
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Trivia. |
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I noticed you removed my DK's reference, but don't worry, there is enough trivia about the SFPD to last a wikiminute |
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Hank Chapot, wikipedian in Oakland |
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==Your edit to 65.19.91.99== |
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"''When you eventually return, please note that "damn" is spelled D-A-M-N and not D-A-M-B, as in your recent vandal-edit to 1906 San Francisco earthquake. Have a nice vacation.''"<br> |
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I understand your anger but please don't beat the people while they are blocked --[[User:St.daniel|St.daniel]] 17:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:It was less of a beating and more of a jovial poking with a sharp stick. Beatings actually cause injury, while goadings can often be funny and even productive. There's no better way to encourage a healthy disdain for vandals amongst the other students at that school, who will find themselves pre-emptively blocked ("What the hell is wrong with Wikipedia?! Teacher!") for the rest of the school year, than pointing out the common inability of many vandalizers to spell even simple curse words. |
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:Well ... of course there ''are'' "better" ways, but few so likely to evoke a didactic chuckle. To show I'm not a completely heartless comedian, I've added the shared-school-IP template to the talk and user pages for that IP address. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 20:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:I understand the pleasure in it but to we can't really do that even though we really want to. |
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Sorry...--[[User:St.daniel|St.daniel]] 12:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==New toy== |
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Hello, Me. I just thought you/I might find this fun. I/You will just store it here, because I/you am/are too lazy to create a separate page as a Wikipedia toybox and, besides, I/you really enjoy talking about myself/you in the third person. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 21:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC) |
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http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate |
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==Thanks== |
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TY for the welcome -- [[User:Rivernever|Rivernever]] 12:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Color-box spacing== |
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Thanks for the heads up. You might want to make that clear on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#Color boxes]] because I still do not see where it says that. --[[User:Thejermdotorg|Jerm]] 01:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== Section headings on [[Talk:Virginia Tech massacre]] == |
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Please stop changing the section headings on [[Talk:Virginia Tech massacre]]. Adding things in parentheses does not improve readability, and only makes things more confusing. It can also be seen as disruption. --[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User talk:Coredesat|<font color="#006449">desat</font>]] 02:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:It would probably be better to either leave the headings alone and merge any duplicate postings into existing sections, or direct any editors posting duplicate sections to ongoing discussions (removing the duplicate ones). --[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User talk:Coredesat|<font color="#006449">desat</font>]] 03:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Well, you don't have to merge the sections that are already there. For example, if someone posts a new section about historical context, merge it into the most recent section on that subject. Some of the sections might need archiving, given that they are more in line with a Wikinews article, and not a Wikipedia one. --[[User:Coredesat|Core]][[User talk:Coredesat|<font color="#006449">desat</font>]] 03:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Non-displaying messages== |
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I noticed you took out my English-language non-displaying message from the VT massacre clusterfuck/article. I've been having to clean up a lot of British English, and things keep getting reverted from "canceled" to "cancelled," etc. How would you suggest putting in a reminder of WP's dialect conventions? This article is attracting many, many inexperienced editors who 1) apparently aren't aware that grammar and diction change when you cross the Pond, and 2) are really into copy-editing. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::I didn't mean to erase that--I was just trying to fix the references. Unfortunately, so many edits were happening at once that by the time my edit went through it must have overridden yours. I also understand your irritation with the article. People are continually messing up the references in it by deleting parts of the reference code. BEst, --[[User:Alabamaboy|Alabamaboy]] 19:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::BTW, now that the article is semi-protected, try fixing the language issues and inserting a notice about the dialect issues.--[[User:Alabamaboy|Alabamaboy]] 19:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::::Alrighty. It's back up, and I'll embark on an American English crusade once I get back from lunch. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 19:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::On second thought, copy editing a document whose beginning will have changed by the time you get to the end of it seems to be a futile task. I'll wait a few days and start editing for style after the edit rate starts to drop off a bit. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 20:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::Wise move. --[[User:Alabamaboy|Alabamaboy]] 20:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== hi == |
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I dont get it <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:201.230.6.61|201.230.6.61]] ([[User talk:201.230.6.61|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/201.230.6.61|contribs]]){{#if:20:07, 17 April 2007| 20:07, 17 April 2007|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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:Do you not understand why I warned you for leaving the "I love this Tech! -Seung-hui Cho" message on the VT massacre discussion page, or why doing things like vandalizing the userpage memorial ribbon template with "gay shit" aren't considered all that funny? --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 03:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== yes, it was 3RR, but.... == |
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I see no consensus on the talk page for the change you want, and I for one disagree with you. So please don't go forward as though there is a consensus yet. I've replied on the talk page. <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 05:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== Consider your problem solved!== |
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"ABC News renders his name in the Western order as Seung-hui Cho [5], while all other English-language outlets use Cho Seung-hui. [6] [7] [8]" |
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I inserted this to explain the naming issue to readers. |
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Face it - Everybody except ABC News uses Cho Seung-hui. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 06:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:"Hui" is not Cho's middle name. Hui is a part of his given name, Seung-hui. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 04:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Revamped Infobox for Colleges and Universities== |
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[''imported in part from [[User talk:Lwalt#Welcome to the Virginia Tech party|lwalt's Talk page]]'']: |
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I've had the day off and have been watching this all day, and I've seen just about everyone I've ever interacted with on a college article make some sort of edit or another to [[Virginia Tech]] or the massacre page. It's been just an orgy of vandalism and other assorted bullshit here too. Oh, take a look at [[UCSC]]'s infobox that I revamped. Do you think it would be appropriate to redo AAU's infobox template in a similar manner, or is it too much? You can also take a look at VA Tech's infobox. I redid that one too, but less thoroughly. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 09:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Like what you've done for the university infobox. For the Academy of Art University, your version at least adds "art" to the article. Did you also do the artwork for the list of presidents? I saw the revamped infobox along with the parade of university presidents at two schools, and these additions really grab the reader's attention...at least from my view. [[User:Lwalt|lwalt]] 09:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::I did the Chancellors timeline for UCSC (it's about half way down the page) by reverse-engineering and improving upon the hard-coding I found when I went to make some quick improvements to VT's page. It was a total pain in the ass to figure out how some of that coding worked; my experience with that type of Wikicode was nil as of this morning. |
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::Oh, speaking of pains in the ass, I had a run-in with a "James Dylan" of my own earlier. Perhaps you can weigh in and mediate before the discussion drifts off into dickery and vindictive rage. The link is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Virginia_Polytechnic_Institute_and_State_University#Name_of_article here]. Total clusterfuck, all the way. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 09:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==your own 3RR== |
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My internet connection dropped last night right after I replied to you, before I could look into your own reverts. Now that I can check, I find that even while you were warning another user for [[WP:3RR|3RR]], you were violating it yourself and escalating the revert war. Your |
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[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123724907 version reverted to,] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123730800 first revert,] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123734592 second revert,] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123735120 third revert,] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123735667 fourth revert (now violating 3RR),] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123739420 fifth revert.] Edit warring is disruptive, and 3RR applies even if you're "right". So I hope you don't take this personally, because I have to block you for 24 hours, and have just done so. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text <nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki> below. <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 15:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:[''e-mailed''] While I don't take the block personally, I don't think it was quite a "fair" block, even if it was legal. |
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:I had been watching the VT-related pages all day for vandalism and had been reverting large numbers of malicious edits. Trolls seem to be attracted by tragedy, and I, along with several other editors, took it upon myself to keep what was happening at those pages civil and structured. I sent out many warnings to vandals myself. After several hours of doing that on what, by all means, was an extraordinarily chaotic day in that section of the Wikipedia universe, a user constantly changing back a good-faith, summarized edit -- without summarizing why he or she was changing it back and not responding to repeated requests for clarification in my subsequent reversions' edit summaries, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cho_Seung-hui#Who_is_changing_the_name_back_to_Korean-style_and_why.3F on the Talk page], and on his or her [[User talk:Che829|own discussion page]] (which already had other vandalism warnings and allegations of sock puppetry), looks a lot like a vandalizing troll. |
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:All my reversions were made in good faith, and I believed that they were in the clear in regards to the 3RR policy because the majority of the reversions seemed to be dealing with vandalism (please see [[Special:Contributions/Dynaflow|here]] for a full accounting of what I was up to yesterday). Once I knew that I was dealing with a consensus issue and not (necessarily only) a vandal, I immediately stopped all further reversions, took the issue back to the talk page, and took it upon myself to hunt down ''every user'' in both the VT massacre talk page and its archives and Seung-hui Cho/[[Cho Seung-hui]]'s own talk page and archives who had expressed an opinion on either side of the issue in contention to ask them to weigh in at the [[Talk:Cho Seung-hui#Naming Order|straw poll]]. |
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:I am involved in several other projects unrelated to the VT massacre and had intended to use my day off to make contributions to them (specifically in regards to my role in template design and revamping for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities|Wikiproject Universities]] -- my cleanup of VT's Infobox was what sucked me into this morass in the first place) -- and if it would be okay with you, I would like to contribute to those other projects and informally agree with you not to participate in discussion or page-editing at [[Virginia Tech massacre]] and [[Cho Seung-hui]] until my block would have expired tomorrow morning. Otherwise, this would be a waste of a perfectly good rainy day with nothing better to do. |
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:Let me know if this is an agreeable compromise for you. Thanks. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] |
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::I got your email. I have a couple of questions. Why did you place [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cho_Seung-hui&diff=prev&oldid=123734391 this comment] in the article? I looked at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cho_Seung-hui&oldid=123734269 the talk page at that moment] and I see plenty of discussion and opinions from both sides but no consensus. Am I missing something? Also, which part of [[WP:3RR#Exceptions]] do you believe allowed for your reversions? It wouldn't be "simple and obvious vandalism" since the other user wasn't changing the name to "Cock Song Ho" or whatever. You can reply here, I will watch this page. <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 23:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::Hmm? If you're asking for someone else to review your block, that's fine, but I am considering it right now which is why I just asked those questions, above. <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 23:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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Sorry about putting up the big, purple template. I thought you might be asleep or out or something, and I must have been in the process of copy-editing it when you posted your above response. The first comment was one I made based on the naming conversation under the Talk-page topic heading regarding Cho's name which I had initially seen and participated in (I can't remember whether it was on the VT massacre page or Cho's page, but I can find it if you'd like me to). It was only after I realized people ''other'' than the person making apparently malicious edits were also in favor of the re-reversions I was re-reverting that I started to wade through the huge number of topic headings, many duplicated, and realized that the issue was not (and is apparently still not) settled. I tried to engage in dispute resolution with the editor I perceived to be making malicious edits, but got no response whatsoever other than more summaryless reversions on his or her part. Then I went to you for administrative help, as the guidelines say I should, and I got ''this.'' |
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I'm not saying that I didn't break the 3RR rule by the letter, but I did so with no ''mens rea'' -- I was acting as a [[Good Samaritan law|Good Samaritan]] in good faith, believing that the (also currently blocked) constant reverter was simply trying to disrupt the editorial process on that page in the same way so many other vandals were, there and then. Once I knew I was making a mistake, I stopped and immediately took steps to fix the problem. I attempted to act constructively at all times, and in large part succeeded. Now all I ask is to be allowed to work on my other projects so that the day I was willing to dedicate to improving Wikipedia will not be completely wasted. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 00:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Okay, but most 3RR violations are made in good faith, and we block anyway. The rule cares not for the intent of the user, but for the effect upon others. (Peruse [[WP:AN3]] sometime and you'll see what I mean). This was essentially a content dispute with an editor who was simply not as communicative as they should have been, but a content dispute nevertheless. Last question: do you agree that your own reversions contributed to disruption of the page? <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 00:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Not in terms of net effect. Of all my reversions on the three major VT-related pages since the chaos related to them started, I have restored blankings, reverted out ridiculously NPOV statements, reverted faulty copy-editing, and reverted seemingly every form of vandalism under the sun many, many times; more than I can remember. That two of those reversions took me unknowingly into 3RR territory -- yet at the same time led to the centralizing of the discussion on a contentious subject, bringing it closer to resolution -- should not justify throwing away time I was willing to donate to making Wikipedia better today. It is unnecessarily punitive because it punishes someone who attempted to adhere to the rules, it wastes my time and yours, and makes Wikipedia poorer by way of the contributions both you and I could be making right now were we not engaged in legal wrangling. Perhaps I could plead guilty in return for a pardon (with the caveat that I won't go near anything having to do with Virginia Tech until tomorrow) and we could get on with our respective Wikipedian contributions. If this is acceptable, I will agree. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 00:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::I will unblock you, although this is controversial and I would not reverse the same block if another admin had made it and you were responding the same way. I understand that you think your efforts were those of a "good samaritan", but revert warring ''is'' disruptive to other users around you, and I'm hesitant to do this because you don't seem to understand this. I urge you to read [[Wikipedia:Revert only when necessary]], [[Wikipedia:Edit war]], and especially '''[[Wikipedia:There is no deadline]]'''. You didn't need to have it your way immediately, you could have waited for other editors who agreed with you to do the same kind of reversions you were doing. Then the other editor would have ended up blocked and you would not. If no one else showed up to do the same kind of reversions, then you would hopefully take that as a sign that there isn't as much support for it as you think. Since I am unblocking you, please stay away from Virginia Tech articles until at least 15:58, 19 April 2007 ([[Coordinated Universal Time|UTC]]) when your block would have worn off. As [[WP:3RR]] demands that "''in the cases where multiple editors violate the rule, administrators should treat all sides equally''", I will also unblock [[User:Che829]]. Please note that the kind of reversions you made are not viewed as reversions of "obvious vandalism", and the same or similar will result in 3RR blocks in the future, by almost any admin's reading of the situation. Thank you for your other contributions. You're still a good editor in my vies. <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 01:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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Thanks, and sorry for the trouble. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 01:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Did that work? <span style="white-space: nowrap">— [[User:Coelacan |coe<span style="font-variant: small-caps" >l</span>]][[ User talk:Coelacan |acan]]</span> — 01:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Yes, thanks. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 01:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==UC Davis Template== |
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[''imported from [[User talk:Vsb|Vince's Talk page]]''] Hi, I see you've retrofitted my template design (originally for [[Template:University of California, Santa Cruz|UCSC]]) for Davis. I'm quite flattered. However, there's one thing I have to warn you about. The UCs' official seals are copyrighted by the Regents, and it is only compliant with Wikipedia's [[WP:F|fair use]] policies to use the seals in the main, "mother" articles fo each of the UCs. The image slot on my design initially held UCSC's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ucsc_fiatslug.gif "Fiat Slug"] unofficial logo (which I love) -- until I got this same warning that I'm now passing on to you. |
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If you would like any help in making this template Davis-specific (e.g., changing the blue-and-gold coloring from Santa Cruz's official shades to Davis's, etc.), just drop me a line on my user page. --[[User:Dynaflow|'''''Dynaflow''''']] 11:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Dynaflow- Thanks for the warning, I'll take an image of campus and use that instead. I really like your design for the UCSC template, I'm glad you're not upset I used it! I found later that there is a UC Davis template, but it's less attractive that the one I made based on yours, so I'm trying to contact the original's creator. Thanks again! --[[User:vsb|Vince]] <sup>|<small>[[User_talk:vsb|Talk]]</small>|</sup> 19:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC) |
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Thanks for your contributions to the UCD template... I tried editing it but I kept making it look worse. Thanks a ton! |
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--[[User:vsb|Vince]] <sup>|<small>[[User_talk:vsb|Talk]]</small>|</sup> 01:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:No problem, and thanks for doing the ititial legwork in porting the navbox to Davis. You spurred me to get off my ass and redo all the other UCs' navboxes other than Berkeley and UCLA's, which were the only ones that were in decent shape when I started on my UC navbox crusade. There is now an entire series: [[User:Dynaflow/Crap-I-Made]]. --[[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 01:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC) |
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No, go ahead and delete it. Actually should we just copy the new one to that page and keep both? A few other templates use the full university name instead of the UC abbreviation. Just a thought. --[[User:vsb|Vince]] <sup>|<small>[[User_talk:vsb|Talk]]</small>|</sup> 17:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==UC Davis Fire Department== |
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I'll drop by some time in the next week and grab a photo of the outside of the fire department. Will that work, or does the fire department template typically only allow logos? |
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--[[User:vsb|Vince]] <sup>|<small>[[User_talk:vsb|Talk]]</small>|</sup> 23:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:It's just the custom for that type of infobox. If you could get a photo that frames the logo on the side of one of their trucks, or maybe ask them to let you photograph a patch or something, that would work too. --[[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 23:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== Till either a respectable America paper or one on par with the BBC.. == |
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...makes the same claim we shouldn't cat. him. [[User:Mayorcheese|Mayorcheese]] 02:24, 21 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==AAU logo== |
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Unfortunately, I don't know where on the AAU site to find a better .jpg clip of its stylized logo. The banner in the infobox for the AAU article was apparently clipped by another editor some time ago from the page header at the AAU site. I'm not aware of a corporate site maintained by AAU to get a better image clip for the logo. [[User:Lwalt|lwalt]] 06:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Welcome== |
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{{SFBA Welcome}} [[User:Peter G Werner|Peter G Werner]] 20:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Cho's e-mail and eBay info== |
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I feel that, due to the media reports and the fact that Cho is dead, Cho's account details are no longer personal. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 22:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:But are they useful and germane to an encyclopedia. We're not conducting a police or news-media investigation; we're putting together an encyclopedia. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 22:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Of the three ID's, we must include the Hotmail and eBay ID since Cho purchased weapons using them. You may drop the school e-mail address. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 23:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::What possible benefit does listing a dead mass murderer's e-mail address on Wikipedia give us? Is this in case some Wikipedian just ''needs'' to look up information that allows him or her to e-mail Seung-Hui Cho beyond the grave? C'mon, it's useless for the article; totally useless. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 02:25, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== User talk: Technion == |
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Sorry, I just noticed your comment on [[User talk:Technion|my talk page]] (I’m kind of new to Wikipedia). I’m always reluctant to do a page move by myself, but [[Virginia Tech]]’s legal name was [[Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University]], and a fact was a fact. What convinced me in the end to go ahead and undo that guy’s move (even if it risked stepping on some editors’ toes) was your careful comments on Virginia Tech’s talk page. |
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Also, I’m sorry to keep undoing your template substitution citing the main [[Virginia Tech massacre]] article; it’s just that the big blurb about SEE MAIN ARTICLE: VIRGINIA TECH MASSACRE somehow comes across as too sensational, set off like that, drawing unnecessary attention, too CNN-like. To me, a simple q.v., as you would see in printed encyclopedias, seemed more appropriate. Please don’t take it personally. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write me a note. —[[User:Technion|Technion]] 03:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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: Re your response on [[User talk:Technion|my talk page]], you’ve done a good job convincing me of your argument. I’ll definitely defer to your judgment. Feel free to [[WP:BOLD|be bold]] and restore your original template, or undo any edits I may have/may ever make. You’re the man. —[[User:Technion|Technion]] 03:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== Cho's nationality == |
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Dynaflow, |
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Why did you revert my deletion of the links on Cho's page (Korean American, American killers)? As is now well known, Cho was a South Korean, not an American (he only held permanent residence status). Logically, if you're not an American, you can't be Korean American, nor can you be an American killer. |
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[[User:Penser|Penser]] 05:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC)penser |
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:I reverted your edit for two reasons: |
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:# You seemed to be edit-warring with other editors over the issue (see [[WP:3RR]]). You seem to be the only one excising the categories in question, while several others are putting them back in. You should not be taking unilateral action on this. |
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:#I see now that you are trying to be consistent with the nationality business in this and other cases, but sometimes nationality is a fuzzy thing, and I think the other editors are correct to re-revert your reversions. For example, as a permanent US resident, Cho was a de jure US national (not ''citizen'', but ''national'') who would have to have registered with the [[Selective Service]] and would be eligible for conscription should the US find itself in heavy enough warfare to justify reinstating the draft. As a permanent resident, he could do just about anything a citizen could do but vote and get a high-level security clearance. He was, by all means, a "Korean American" by the deliberately-fuzzy definition Americans tend to go by, and since he killed a whole bunch of people in Virginia -- in America -- I don't see why the "American Criminals" category or whatever it was would even be disputed. |
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:The persistent deletion of the categories also makes me somewhat suspicious of a possible political motivation that would breach [[WP:NPOV]], but I'll try to assume good faith as well as I can. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 06:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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Whether under some fuzzy definition of Korean American he could be included is at best highly controversial. Wikipedia's standard operating procedure is to look to credible outside sources for confirmation. As has been pointed out, Cho is not referred to as a "Korean American" in any major news reports, and the standard definition of a (FILL IN THE BLANK ETHNIC BACKGROUND) American is an American citizen of (FILL IN THE BLANK ETHNIC BACKGROUND) descent. |
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I would argue that continually adding categories that are not supported by mainstream news accounts or definitions is the sign of political motivation.[[User:Penser|Penser]] 06:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)penser |
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:Question: This is a very international encyclopedia, so I'm wondering if we might be arguing past each other with differing local definitions of how to label nationality. Are you in the US? [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 06:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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I am an (US) American, though I am currently living in Hong Kong, and have lived in Japan in the past (despite this I would never be classified as an American Japanese ;-) ). I understand that Wikipedia is international, but even if you look at articles from Canada, the UK, Australia etc., they don't describe him as an American. The discussions about how much he was influenced by spending most of youth in the US versus being from South Korea and raised by South Korean parents is an interesting discussion (perhaps), but when it comes to labeling for nationality, hard facts that are easily verifiable should be preferred.[[User:Penser|Penser]] 07:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)penser |
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== [[Clacket Lane]] == |
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The band already has had a first album out - Destination. The second album; Man who fell from the moon is going to be released this Summer....[[User:IndieRobLB|IndieRobLB]] 06:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:See my entry on the band's Talk page. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 06:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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I'm no connection to the band - the old talk page was deleted. I've just put this together myself. I spoke to another administrator on Wikipedia and the article had the "mark for deletion" tag removed. Clacket Lane has supported major UK bands and I think is notable because of this too.... |
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[[User:IndieRobLB|IndieRobLB]] 06:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:What, precisely, did the admin say? [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 06:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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This is my first ever article for wikipedia - it probably shows too. I thought I had deleted it, and after speaking with the contact - they agreed that CLacket Lane were not "just another garage band" that Wikipedia seems to get filled with. The drummer has supported for the undertones. The band has a single out. They have also had an album commercially released and they are due a second album this year. I can't exactly remember what was said - but the article was not re-marked for deletion.[[User:IndieRobLB|IndieRobLB]] 06:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:The thing is, that doesn't necessarily confer notability, as per [[WP:N]], the main notability standard. Read through some AfD entries and you'll see what kind of standards are kept, in practice, for notability-based deletions. These are some of the ones I've been involved with today: |
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*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Max Karson]] (my vote, delete) |
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*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Sneed]] (my vote, strong merge) |
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*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sun-Kyung Cho]] (my vote, delete) |
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*[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blondi]] (my -- semi-facetious -- vote, weak keep) |
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:I would support putting the article through an AfD process, rather than speedydelete, if I could be convinced this band is notable at all. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 07:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== Sup. == |
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A little late on the ball, no? Days after the change was made you followed up with backseat Wikipolicing of my, granted, sour joke. Do you routinely run about frantically making sure to threaten everybody who has ever had a revision revoked? Get a life. |
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Oh, and restricting of my editing abilities? Oh, goodness me, what would I do without my precious trivial acerbic jokes on Wikipedia? My house of cards is surely on the brink of collapse! {{unsigned|24.109.94.208}} |
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:I sent you a warning last week (check the date) for vandalizing the article [[Virginia Tech massacre]] by adding it to the video game category [[First Person Shooters]] (a change which I reverted). Neither I nor anyone else has (yet) blocked your editing privileges since November, when you were blocked twice in succession, including once for what one administrator memorably summed up as "''vandalism, stupidity''." [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 16:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC) |
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Well, I sincerely apologize for the overtly rude nature of my comment on your talk page then. I only received a notification of your warning a week after it had transpired and immediately assumed it to have been just posted. My mistake. {{unsigned|24.109.94.208}} |
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==An intelligent and well-reasoned note from the peanut gallery on "Teh Banz"== |
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OH NOEZ!!! NOT TEH BANZ!!! DO YOU KNOW WHO MANY MINUTES IT TAKES FOR ME TO GET A NEW IP???? LESS THEN I NEED TO CUM ALL OVER YO MOMMA'S FAT FACE!! HAR HAR HAR {{unsigned|213.119.10.232}} |
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== UCSC good article nom == |
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Hi again, Dynaflow! Thanks for all the awesome work you've done on the UCSC article. Before you came along, I was more or less the only one keeping it in decent shape. |
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In the GA entry, I removed the "long" note. The GA process goes by article length as outlined in [[WP:SIZE]], in which only "readable prose" is counted, without references, lists or tables. Because the 34K total size is so close to 32K, I went ahead and tested the page's size. All I had to do was remove the references, and the "long page" warning didn't even show up. |
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BTW: In response to the message I didn't reply to last week... it looks like someone had removed the English usage note on [[Virginia Tech massacre]] by the time I got your message! I hadn't even though of the message being on other VT-related pages, and had no plans to make any changes. <font color="green">[[User:Szyslak|szyslak]]</font> <small>([[User talk:Szyslak|t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|c]])</small> 08:27, 26 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Come to think of it, I've been intending to put a new chunk of delicious informational goodness into the History section about the ups and downs of the school's reputation, specifically its transformations from the University of California's liberal-arts honors/magnet campus in the '60s and '70s, to oft-derided ass-end of the UC by the 1980s, to its current status as a niche specialized-research powerhouse. The problem has been that I'm going to need to spend a Saturday at McHenry Special Collections to put all the citations together in a way that makes it airtight against accusations of NPOVsmanship, and it may be a while before I get back down to Santa Cruz (I'm up doing "stuff" at the University of Oregon in Eugene temporarily, and a 600 mile drive to write a Wikipedia article seems a bit excessive). Do you think it would be best to wait on putting the new material in until after the GA review, or should I just say damn the torpedoes and drop it in? [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 15:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::It sounds like a trip to McHenry would provide enough research opportunities for a feature-quality history section, plus a new [[History of the University of California, Santa Cruz]] article (c.f. [[History of the University of California, Riverside]]). I had plans to do the same thing back in September 2005, just before I moved out of Santa Cruz (I'd graduated that June). But the transit strike made it hard to get on and off campus, so I decided against it. I now live in Ventura, about 300 miles away, and I hope to visit SC within the next couple months or so. But even if I do, who knows if I'll have time to go to McHenry for Wikipedia work; I'll be visiting friends I haven't seen in years. |
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::Either way, I don't think the article will fail GA if you don't do the work on the history section. If it were up for FA status, however, that would be a different story. Someone would have to do significant work on the history section before we reach that point. <font color="green">[[User:Szyslak|szyslak]]</font> <small>([[User talk:Szyslak|t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|c]])</small> 17:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Academy of Art University article== |
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I noted with interest a comment about "doctorate" (as in Ph.D or Ed.D) that I saw in your edit summary for AAU. During my initial research some time ago, I did not find a doctorate degree that was awarded (earned) for Elisa Stephens, but did find that she has a law (''Juris Doctor'') degree. She was once the General Counsel of AAU before becoming head of the school. |
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Because I could not reconcile why Stephens customarily used the title "Dr." before her name (virtually every reference to her name includes the title "Dr."), I looked up the practice at the ABA (American Bar Association) site to find an opinion on this use. According to an article that appeared in the Ethics section of the ''ABA Journal'', lawyers can use the Dr. title, and that's why Elisa Stephens uses this title as the head of a college ("the ethics committee reversed course in light of the newly adopted ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility. Disciplinary Rule 2-102 permitted a J.D. or LL.M. (master of law) recipient to use doctor with his or her name, the committee concluded in ABA Informal Opinion 1152 (1970).") . Here's the reference to the article: |
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Maher, K. (2006, November). [http://www.abanet.org/journal/redesign/11ethics.html Lawyers are doctors, too.] ''ABA Journal''. Retrieved on April 27, 2007. [[User:Lwalt|lwalt]] 19:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:I was trying to keep it consistent with other schools. It is de rigeur for a university president to hold a doctorate, and tacking the formal title onto the name of the head of a university in that school's infobox seems redundant and somewhat gauche. Almost none of the major universities' infoboxes list their chief executives' credentials, and I think the AAU article should follow suit on that. I'll leave it to your call, though. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 19:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:::The way you have the name now is fine by me. [[User:Lwalt|lwalt]] 19:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Exhaustive lists of surviving victims and their injuries are encyclopedic== |
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Exhaustive lists of surviving victims and their injuries may also be straying into areas of questionable taste and utility. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 22:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC) |
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: Questionable taste? You mean [[Columbine_High_School_massacre]]? That article has lists of injuries. So, then, why can't V-Tech? By the way, the claims of original research are false; I have provided extensive press sources from various newspapers. [[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] 01:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Someone else made the call on original research, not me. The Columbine list also strains the rubrics of good taste and encyclopedic merit. See the talk page for a more-complete response. I will have that page on my watchlist. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 01:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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You mean this: [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_censored]] |
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If the bullet hits were not relevant - if what I posted there was posted to an article about sunflowers and kittens, you would have every right to remove it. For instance, [[Wikipedia:Content disclaimer]] has "Wikipedia may contain triggers for people with post-traumatic stress disorder."{{unsigned|WhisperToMe}} |
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::Note that the disclaimer does not say "Wikipedians will try to trigger your post-traumatic stress disorder whenever possible." Anyway, that's not my objection (and note that it's not a "true" objection because I haven't suggested the article be taken to AfD). All I'm saying is that the "annotated list" is tasteless and useless, on top of being voyeuristic and exploitationist, and it doesn't merit the time and effort that's being poured into it. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 02:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::'''I will continue this conversation on the Talk page where it started''' |
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==University of California, Los Angeles== |
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I apologize if I caused any consternation over my removal of the '''<nowiki><br></nowiki>''' break, which you reverted. In my Firefox browser, the article looks and operates exactly the same with our without it. I removed it because I believed it was unnecessary and that extraneous html codes can eventually lead to formatting problems. As a learning experience for me, would you please explain why the break really is needed. In particular, what happens when it is not there? Thanks. [[User:Truthanado|Truthanado]] 06:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:My general rule of thumb is that, if someone is putting in HTML code, and the code isn't redirecting me to weird porn sites or making my computer explode, the person who put it in probably knows what he or she is doing and has benign intentions. In such cases, I just leave well enough alone unless what they've done is ''obviously'' stupid and/or breaks whatever aspect of the page they seem to have been trying to fix. |
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:For some reason, the lower edge of the UCLA navbox and the upper edge of the UC navbox occur at the same place if there isn't a break in between them, at least in my browser ([[Opera (Internet suite)|Opera]] -- the bestest browser in the whole, wide world, yessiree). The end result is that it looks like there's some sort of huge, Leviathan-like UC box dominating the bottom of the page, which is contrary to my aesthetic intentions. I'm not sure why this happens. It's probably due to some sort of clumsiness in my template coding (both navboxes are [[User:Dynaflow/Crap-I-Made|my creations]]), but a quick, HTML-based fix on the page where the boxes are transcluded is better than nothing, keeping the things from conjoining with each other while I figure out what's wrong with their inner workings. I just (re)made the UCLA box the day before yesterday, and so it still has some kinks that need to be worked out. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 08:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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== UC Berkeley Template == |
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Just wanted to say thanks for using my photograph on the Berkeley template, it does look pretty good there! Thanks also for your other work there, the temp. looks very good now, along with the other UC system template you also improved. Nice work! [[User:Trisweb|trisweb]] <span style="color: green; font-size: 75%;">([[User_talk:Trisweb|Talk]])</span> 17:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==IPvandal== |
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Isn't it typical for the person who spots and reverts the vandalism to issue the warning? The warning I left was for the first revert, and I assumed that your warning was for my second revert. At this point, I have him cued up in AIV waiting to his "Save Page". [[User:HokieRNB|HokieRNB]] 18:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:Oh, now I see, there was an edit conflict and you were actually leaving your warning while I was leaving mine, so yours has an earlier timestamp. My bad. [[User:HokieRNB|HokieRNB]] 18:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC) |
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::Technically, my warning was for his or her edits to [[Saint Louis University]], and I was going to squash the dumb bastard the moment s/he made another edit to the VT article. If you're on it, though, it's all good. Thanks for your diligence. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 18:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC) |
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==Big "C"== |
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Sorry about that, I didn't realize i had overwritten another photo. Thanks for the heads up on the change. (gomfbears) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:gomfbears|gomfbears]] ([[User talk:gomfbears|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/gomfbears|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}| {{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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== Thanks for help with IPVandal 63.192.130.60== |
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I see you've already added a warning to User_talk:63.192.130.60. Thanks for the info and for your help. [[User:Spventi|Spventi]] 08:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== I'm rich! == |
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Thank you Dynaflow! Although I'm not sure my semi-obsession with [[Virginia Tech massacre | that page]] is [[WP:HOLIC | all that healthy]], your reward is much appreciated. I wonder if it's redeemable for [http://www.sfbrewing.com/beers/beers.html Emperor Norton Lager]? |
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I think Norton dollars should be added [[WP:PUA | here]] and would be a better reward than the '''California star''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_San_Francisco_Bay_Area | here]]! |
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Cheers! [[Image:Beer.jpg]] [[User:Sfmammamia|Sfmammamia]] 21:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Re: SummerThunder == |
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A few days ago he did the same thing to me, this time with his sockpuppet Crazyruns. He even vandalized my AIV report against him, accusing ''me'' of being a SummerThunder sock. I see that in his latest incarnation he accused ''you'' of being a sockpuppet of ''me''. |
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So, the story is, he thinks the Foundation is collaborating with the People's Republic of China to censor the Chinese Wikipedia. (That, of course, doesn't answer the question of why he's so interested in the UC Riverside page.) |
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Anyway, next time you run into him, just take it straight to AIV. The admins who watch AIV are familiar with his activities and will recognize him right away. If you try to engage with him he'll just pull the same thing again. Last time I ran into him I immediately filed an AIV report before even reverting his edits. I don't choose to be an admin at the moment, but if I were one I'd just block him without another word. <font color="green">[[User:Szyslak|szyslak]]</font> 03:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:Oy. I had to go on IRC just to ask an administrator to block the guy. I love when no one's watching AIV. BTW: Your theory is plausible, except his own English skills are questionable. <font color="green">[[User:Szyslak|szyslak]]</font> 10:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::That's part of what made me zero in on this one guy. Heh, it's somewhat flattering that I seem to have been promoted to "puppetmaster" in his addled mind. It was rather stifling for the ol' ego to be merely your puppet in his template rampages. He even made me my own category this time. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 10:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== The Western Investor – speedy delete == |
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['''''Imported, in part, from [[User talk:Bearcat]] and [[Talk:The Western Investor]]'''''] |
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You tagged [[The Western Investor]] with speedy delete. In the article, it was asserted that the band met criterion #11 in notability on [[WP:MUSIC]], that they were in frequent rotation on a national network, [[CBC Radio 3]]. Actually, the band's listing in the article [[The R3-30]] (having a number-one song on the chart) was why I created the article in the first place. (I was in the process of contesting it when it was deleted.) Let me know if you have any advice. Much obliged, --[[User:Paul Erik|Paul Erik]] 06:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:As I see it, they have not satisfied the criteria for notability. They do not seem to be on Radio 3's rotation; if they are, you must cite this. They are ''played'' and highly regarded on a show on Radio 3 premised on the fact that the songs it plays are obscure and ''not'' on regular rotation, but this does not satisfy [[WP:NOTE]]. Even some corners of obscurity get a bit of limelight now and then. |
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:Wait for a while. If they indeed have what it takes, they will get bigger one day. Until then, you'll be jumping the gun. Even though the admin who deleted the article saw your hangon tag [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=The_Western_Investor], he also agreed that they have yet to satisfy the criteria for inclusion.[[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 06:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Ok. I had thought that reaching number one on ''[[The R3-30]]'' chart demonstrated that they were in high rotation on [[CBC Radio 3]], but I may not be understanding what that chart is all about. Thanks for the feedback. --[[User:Paul Erik|Paul Erik]] 06:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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: The Western Investor most certainly are in regular rotation on CBC Radio 3. I think I have almost every word to "If You Wanna Go" memorized by now, and I've never heard the song anywhere ''but'' Radio 3. Reaching number one on the R3-30 chart, by definition, ''does'' fulfill the [[WP:MUSIC]] criteria. The R3-30 is ''not'' premised on the "fact" that its songs are not on regular rotation — you may be confusing the show as a whole with the "Chartbreaker" feature. By definition, a song ''has'' to be in regular rotation to actually attain a chart ''ranking''; that the show makes some space for listeners to promote songs outside of the network's standing playlist does not mean that ''all'' songs on the show are off-rotation. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 07:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::I'm not in Canada, nor do I listen to Canadian radio, so my judgement of what exactly a show like that might play is based on the US commercial radio and BBC streams I listen to. If you can prove your point with citations, you might well save the article. Be warned, though, that, in Wikipedia's eyes, if you can't cite it, it doesn't exist, and the burden of proof is on the article's authors. As for this "chart," is it an actual sales chart, a la Billboard, or is it the way they term their compiled playlist statistics for that particular program? [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 07:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::How exactly would you propose that one cite "has been in rotation on CBC Radio 3" apart from actual listener experience and/or the chart show? I'm an administrator, and the citation already present is entirely sufficient. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 07:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::::One "citation" is the band's MySpace page. The other is a link to a CBC page which says, right up front, that they are unsigned, and consists of a blurb the band's members apparently wrote themselves, a track list, and contact information. I am taking this thread to the article's discussion page. We'll sort it out there. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 07:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::You might want to reread the article a bit more closely. Namely, you might be interested to note that the footnote which directly follows the sentence about the R3-30 chart is a direct link to the R3-30 chart that has The Western Investor at the top of it, which is entirely sufficient sourcing for the claim that they've topped said chart. WP:MUSIC is not open to subjective interpretations; if a band tops a chart on a national radio network, they're notable enough for us. You ''don't'' get to apply subjective criteria to dismiss the notability of said network or said chart. Also, incidentally, you appear to be unclear on the following distinction: [[CBC Radio 3]] is a 24/7 radio ''network''; ''[[The R3-30]]'' is a show ''on'' said network which presents a countdown chart of songs ''played'' on that network. SOme of your prior comments in this thread appear not to fully understand that distinction. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 07:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Okay, I've found that. I assumed, because of the way they were doing their frames, that that link was taking me to the same place as the CBC link under "External links." After reading that and the WP article on the [[R3-30]], I'm still not convinced this one, primary source will stand. What is the criteria of this chart? "The R3-30 is a weekly record chart show on CBC Radio 3, which counts down the week's top indie rock singles as determined by airplay [Where? This one station? In Canada? On small, South Pacific islands whose names start with the letter M?], listener feedback [Abstract, "unscientific" criteria that isn't available for examination anyway], and other criteria [What other criteria?]." You yourself assert that it's hard to find anything beyond this one citation (a blog post, no less) aside from your own observations (which would constitute [[WP:OR]]). "A topic is notable if it has received significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." ([[WP:NOTE]]) Where are those sources? [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 07:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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: A weekly chart program on a national radio network is notable, and a band which ranks on said chart is notable, ''regardless'' of whether the method by which the chart is compiled satisfies your personal peccadillos or not. Appearance on said record chart, further, does not need to be sourced to anything beyond an actual publication of said chart by CBC Radio 3, which is exactly what the link in question is. The fact that R3 uses a blog format on its website does not make its website an unreliable source. A national radio network chart is a national radio network chart, and no amount of "but the criteria for compiling the chart don't seem to be scientific enough for <i>meeeeeeeeeeeee!</i>" makes it not a national radio network chart. [[WP:MUSIC]] applies as written, not "as filtered through Dynaflow's own personal choice of subtext". [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 07:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::Alright, let's just take this to AfD and see what happens. The two of us probably aren't going to find a happy medium between "delete" and "keep," so the wider community should probably be consulted at this point. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 08:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::There's no basis for AFD. The topic meets the inclusion criteria spelled out at [[WP:MUSIC]]. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 08:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::::Okay. Suggest a speedykeep at the AfD and see if everybody goes for it. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 08:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Alright, it's your ball: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Western Investor]]. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 08:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Hello, again. I realize we're having a bit of a disagreement, but I've tried to keep the discussion as civil as possible. You seem to have taken some element of this personally and displayed behavior I would not have expected out of an administrator. You have left talk-page comments in what seems from my side of the screen to be a condescending tone. You have gotten involved in a content dispute to the point where you have resisted the idea of following procedure (though, to your credit, you have not misused your sysop priviliges beyond bringing out the "admin card" as a rhetorical point very eary in the debate at my talk page). |
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I wasn't going to say anything until I saw [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bearcat&curid=334175&diff=128604616&oldid=128603009 this edit summary], which just blows my mind. You say that not only messages from an editor in good standing, but also of a ''fellow administrator'', are "unwelcome" on your page. All I want is to keep this whole thing civil and by-the-book, and I don't understand why that makes you so angry. If there's something else going on beyond Wikipedia that's causing anger to spill over into Wikipedia, then you have my sympathies. However, I would ask that you try to act in the professional manner your community-granted post makes us expect from you. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 09:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:I'm not resisting procedure (?!) or being condescending or angry. And if you're going to start suggesting that my tone is more condescending than I think, then keep in mind that you're the one whose last comment on my talk page opened with "it's your ball". [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 09:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::I said that in an effort to ''not'' make my leaving the link sound personal or otherwise emotionally-involved. Maybe the phrase has different connotations in Canada, but, in the south-of-the-border way I used it, it was to equate sending you the link to the nothing-personal attitude of one team, even though pitted against the other, still sportsmanly handing off the <s>soccer</s> football to the other team when required to by the rules. I don't want to get into a no-holds-barred fight over an article I have no personal investment in; I just want to subject something I thought should have been speedydeleted to the community litmus test and see if it passes or (as I expect it will and you expect it won't) fails. That's all; nothing personal. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 09:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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What you ''mean'' by a phrase and how it lands on the listener can be two different things. "It's your ball" ''does'' register as sarcasm or condescension whether you mean it that way or not. You seem to be going for the classic communication trick here: if I misunderstand your tone, it's my fault for not listening correctly, but if you misunderstand mine, it's my fault for not ''speaking'' correctly, so either way I end up with ''all'' the blame for any miscommunication that results. Healthy dialogue simply doesn't work that way. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 17:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Re: [[Mark Ravina]] == |
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Hello. I've noticed that you've placed a warning template on my new article on historian [[Mark Ravina]] stating that the article reads like a resume. Thank you for your attentive efforts to enforce standards and quality upon new articles, and for your efforts overall. |
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Given that the article is already written in prose paragraph form, not bulletpoints like a real resume would be, and given that I am not aware of any other biographical sources on Prof Ravina, I am wondering what you suggest should be done. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 15:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:It looked a lot more like a CV to me last night than it does today, but I still think it doesn't assert the importance of its subject as forcefully as it should. The article notes Ravina's role in film consulting and in studying Japanese history, but it doesn't come out and say ''why'' he is/was improtant in those roles. |
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:Mention of the titles of academic books even the above-average reader will likely not have read (I think I remember ''Land and Lordship in Early Modern Japan'' being one of the optional reads in the last East Asian history course I took, but I went plowing through Eiko Ikegami's social-networks-based stuff instead) will mean nothing to said reader. It must be asserted what '''place''' this academic's work has '''in''' his field -- his context -- and it should probably be asserted before some nefarious deletionist comes around and puts a prod tag on the article. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 07:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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::Sounds good. Will do. Cheers. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 07:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::I've done what I can to add some explanation of the significance of the work. I'm afraid of pushing the limits of what is not [[WP:OR|original research]], my own personal analysis of the significance of Ravina's work, but I'm hoping that what we've got now will stand. Thanks for your help, and if you have further suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 07:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Response == |
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That's exactly it. You've once again proved my point. Not only did you completely leave your neutral thought process (that's supposed to be all but required in a Wikipedia editor) at the door when you left a message on my talk page, but you replied with absolute arrogance. Arrogance is not what people look for when they are trying to find information for a critical school paper. Especially that little magic mushroom comment, which was all but mature. One more thing, you failed to see my point when responding to my point about the 'Bible'. I'm not looking for a religous pilgrimage; I'm Wiccan. The pollution of the Bible by biased sources is the reason I am Wiccan. Among other things in the practice that click with me, but thats beside the point. Their are places where an opinion is ok and places where it is not. This should be one of those places where it is not ok, because alot of people depend on editors such as yourself for information.You fail to see a bigger picture. You disappoint more then just me with your actions. You disappoint countless students. Even if you have no part in editing material that would be research information, your arrogant attitude doesn't help to set straight the ones that do have a part in it. {{unsigned|Amaraiel}} |
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:I have not been following those VT-related pages as thoroughly as I was a few weeks ago, when I had the things watchlisted in order to help with the rampant vandalism they faced in the aftermath of the shootings. Looking back through that Talk page now, I can see that your proposal was not treated gently. It was subjected to severe criticism and roundly condemned as a bad idea. It's often hard to take criticism, especially when care hasn't been taken to dull its edges. However, I cannot see why this would shake your faith in Wikipdia. It, in fact, strengthens mine. |
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:Here is why: The process, though seemingly harsh -- particularly to those who make the mistake of personally identifying with the ideas they put forward -- worked. It took a bad idea (and it was a bad idea) and stood firm in the face of it, in the face of its persistent promotion vigorous lobbying for its adoption. The idea was dissected in what turned into a de facto post-mortem so that, should anyone propose that idea again, it could be dealt with even more quickly and efficiently than it was this time (your proposal, in fact, was not the first along these lines to die a death by discussion). That Wikipedia maintained its integrity and ''didn't'' approve of the proposal you put forward is to its credit. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 04:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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The end result Dyna (I'm going to have to nickname you) is as follows: |
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1) I enjoy list, get used to it. |
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2) I appreciate your response, I've actually grown to like you just a little bit. Blunt honesty mixed with honest professionalism. I can appreciate that. |
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3) I am going to stick this out just a little while longer, though I believe more I will chose what I edit more carefully this time. For instance, my fortes are technology and asian culture. You get the point ;) |
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Have a great night, and get some sleep bro. |
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[[User:Amaraiel|Amaraiel]] 05:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:Good night to you too. Don't hesitate to contact me if you ever run into problems again in any of Wikipedia's (I admit) often-confusing and -strange nooks and crannies, and you feel you might need help navigating through them. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 05:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== UCLA logo == |
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I think fair use rationales are a waste of time. I realize that including them is policy, but in practice most images don't have them and those that do often have silly ones. The whole concept is flawed, in my opinion, so I'm not going to bother. If the image police want to delete good images simply because a rationale is missing, then fine—though you'd think someone who believed in rationales that deeply would be willing to fill it in themselves. [[User:Punctured Bicycle|Punctured Bicycle]] 10:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:Just try not to be sad when some bot comes along and zaps all your work because you didn't want to paste in one block of text along with the logo template. Wikipedia tends to take [[WP:F]] pretty seriously, as I found out fairly early on from fellow editors who were horrified that I was putting logos back into template space. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law 'round here, but, believe me, pasting in those fair use rationales will save you and a lot of other people a whole lot of work down the line. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 20:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Fair Use == |
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I found a picture of a Zen Vision: M MP3 Player which I resized to fit a userbox. Is it possible for that to be legitimately uploaded? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Amaraiel|Amaraiel]] ([[User talk:Amaraiel|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amaraiel|contribs]]) 13:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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:It depends on where you found it and who took it. Most stuff that you find on the Internet will be considered, by default, as copyrighted, unless the creator has specifically stated otherwise (see [[WP:F]]). Wikipedia also tries to avoid using potentially non-free (i.e., copyrighted) content if it can be replaced with free content. A logo, say, such as [[:Image:Ucsc fiatslug.gif]], is not replacable with free content, and thus it has to sport a lot of fair-use related verbiage in its image page and have ''where'' in Wikipedia it is considered fair use strictly defined. It also can't be used in "template space" because you can't define where a template can and can't be used in the same way. A picture of an MP3 player, on the other hand, is something you could easily take yourself and upload under a creative-commons license (the image upload page makes that easy to do), which would make it free content (example: [[:Image:UCSC McHenry Library.jpg]]). Also, see the thread above this one for a very practical reason correct fair-use procedure is important. |
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:If you want any help creating the UBX itself, let me know. I've created [[User:Dynaflow/Crap-I-Made|several]], and I have code set up that you can copy out and modify to your liking. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 20:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== [[Johnston Community College]] == |
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Thank you for your edits. I am a member of another college in [http://www.ercbec.org/members.html ERBEC], and as you can see, this is a real community college. It started out as an ad, rather than spam. I'm trying to help clean it up. Then, we'll find cites. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] 20:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:Best of luck to you. [[User:Dynaflow|<font color="#285991">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</font>]] 20:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 01:32, 8 May 2007
 | An editor has expressed a concern that this account may be a sockpuppet of SummerThunder (talk · contribs · logs). Please refer to editing habits or contributions of the sockpuppet for evidence. This policy subsection may be helpful. Account information: block log – contribs – logs – abuse log – CentralAuth |
OCD patient dynaflow has Internet addiction, he needs to get a life and a job. and some serious psychological therapy.