Talk:Chocolate: Difference between revisions
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I'm not sure I agree with Larry that the word "chocolate" usually refers to candy in English. All of the dictionaries I checked define the word as the ground paste, "...usually mixed with sugar..." or some words to that effect. Even if most of us mean that bar stuff when we use the word, terms like "unsweetened chococlate" or "baker's chocolate" and "milk chocolate" imply that the word itself does not imply that particular form, even in the minds of English speakers. I've also heard the unadorned term used to refer to the beverage many times, but to be honest, that may be a California thing (since we have a lot of Mexican culture here, and the word there almost always refers to the drink). --LDC |
I'm not sure I agree with Larry that the word "chocolate" usually refers to candy in English. All of the dictionaries I checked define the word as the ground paste, "...usually mixed with sugar..." or some words to that effect. Even if most of us mean that bar stuff when we use the word, terms like "unsweetened chococlate" or "baker's chocolate" and "milk chocolate" imply that the word itself does not imply that particular form, even in the minds of English speakers. I've also heard the unadorned term used to refer to the beverage many times, but to be honest, that may be a California thing (since we have a lot of Mexican culture here, and the word there almost always refers to the drink). --LDC |
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Well, I'm talking about English, not dictionaries of English. Dictionaries often list the original uses of a term first, just for clarity; but why does that mean we should list the relatively obscure origin of the term first? Why not save that for later? --[[LMS]] |
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Revision as of 20:02, 4 January 2002
There have been several Joseph Frys associated with chocolate, so it's easy to see how one could get mixed up. To the best of my knowledge Joseph Storrs Fry invented Fry's Cocoa, the famous brand of hot chocolate (though the drink had been around before that). It was his grandson, just "Joseph Fry", who invented bar chocolate.
The younger Fry was on my list of people to write up, so let me advance him in the schedule and start some research. -- Paul Drye
In the Spanish missionary quote, "Chocolaté" is spelled with an accent on the final "e". It's not spelled this way in modern Spanish, and a simple Spanish rendering of the Indian word would certainly not have it. Is that exact from the source? --Lee Daniel Crocker
A date on this source might be a good addition to the article also --rmhermen
- I got the quote from the source listed at the bottom of the page. Sorry, I have no further information. The source says he lived in Peru in the last half of the 15th century, but how knows if he said that at age 98 back in Spain or something.
- Well, I can help you out a little there -- Jose de Acosta started living in Mexico in 1585, and died in 1600. Even better, assuming the quote is from the books he wrote, is that his books were all published between 1588 and 1590. -- Paul Drye
- Hmmmm. And the Exploratorium says he lived in Peru. What is your source? And did he die in the Americas or return to Europe? --Dmerrill
- Never mind. The Catholic Encyclopeda http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01108b.htm has the full story. --Dmerrill
"The first recorded shipment of chocolate to the new world for commercial purposes was in a shipment from Veracruz? to Seville? in 1585."
To the new world?
I'm not sure I agree with Larry that the word "chocolate" usually refers to candy in English. All of the dictionaries I checked define the word as the ground paste, "...usually mixed with sugar..." or some words to that effect. Even if most of us mean that bar stuff when we use the word, terms like "unsweetened chococlate" or "baker's chocolate" and "milk chocolate" imply that the word itself does not imply that particular form, even in the minds of English speakers. I've also heard the unadorned term used to refer to the beverage many times, but to be honest, that may be a California thing (since we have a lot of Mexican culture here, and the word there almost always refers to the drink). --LDC
Well, I'm talking about English, not dictionaries of English. Dictionaries often list the original uses of a term first, just for clarity; but why does that mean we should list the relatively obscure origin of the term first? Why not save that for later? --LMS