User talk:Brythonek

This user is a member of WikiProject Cornwall.

Welcome

Hello, Brythonek! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Daicaregos (talk) 20:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Intuitive guide to Wikipedia Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)Brythonek (talk)

Pages created by Brythonek

Cranken Rhyme

Have created its own page in order to avoid overloading Cornish Language Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Minister for Cornwall

Needs more material Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Early Cornish_Texts

Happy to see material move to Wikisource if needs be. Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Materials in cornish_law

Happy to see material move to Wikisource if needs be Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Cumbric revival

Only intended as a special interest stub that links to the subject. Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish inventions

Brythonek (talk) 19:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Celtic tribes pages- Brythonek

One of my aims would be to improve the information on the Celtic tribes of Britain, Ireland and Europe. Some tribes are mere stubs, whilst others have quite extensive "ethnologic" information. Currently I am working on two main tribal groups in Britain. The Dumnonii and Cornovii.

Dumnonii

The material is mostly taken from the Annales Camrbiae, as stated in the introductory paragraph, I am working on more specific reference, all of which are listed at the bottom of the page Brythonek (talk) 10:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC) References now in place! Brythonek (talk) 10:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009

Am working on improving the accuracy and referencing of the article Dumnonii Brythonek (talk) 14:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Brythonek. I think that the EBK website is regarded by academic experts as pretty dubious - I've flagged up concerns at Talk:Dumnonii. I strongly suggest you get an authoritative opinion on some of the sites you are using, say from Wikipedia:Wikiproject European History/Sub-Roman Britain Taskforce, before adding too much information from sites which are considered unreliable. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't deleted any links of yours, and I'm no expert on this at all. All I would say is that, a couple of years ago, I also added much info from these sites to WP articles, and was strongly criticised (and reverted) by what some would see as orthodox historians, who dispute much of the info on the sites you are using. I just thought I should caution you that these sites, while they are attractive and plausible, are not generally seen as ones on which much reliance should be placed. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. The problem I've got is that I am no expert in this area at all - I have no qualifications in history or in the use of Welsh (or Cornish) sources, and just don't know for certain which sources are "right" and which are "wrong". I can't comment on the detailed points in your note. However, I do know that there are great gaps in knowledge, and uncertainty over a lot of the sources. I also know that, for various reasons, some authors and websites have - to a greater or lesser extent - made leaps of faith in interpreting the sources which more cautious academics think are unwarranted and, in some cases, downright misleading or wrong. My interpretations of the contributions from others in discussions here is that the EBK and HistoryFiles sites fall into that category. As editors here, it's not our job, in my view, to put into articles the references which, as it were, tell the best, or most complete or interesting, story, if there are serious questions about the truth of those sources and, in particular, if they have not been subject to academic peer review. Our job is to be neutral, and that means not just "politically" neutral, but giving proper weight to the best informed arguments and little or no weight to weak arguments. If there's a consensus from editors whose views I respect that a particular source is unreliable, I'd prefer not to use it, however interesting or plausible the source might be, rather than helping to spread false information. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Dumnonian King list

• Vryen m. Kynuarch m. Meirchawn m. Gorust Letlwm m. Keneu m. Coel
• Llywarch Hen m. Elidyr Lydanwyn m. Meirchawn m. Gorust Ledlwm m. Keneu m. Coel
• Clydno Eidin & Chynan Genhir & Chynuelyn Drwsgyl, Kynvawr Hadgaddvc & Chatrawt Calchuynyd, meibon Kynnwyt Kynnwydyon m. Kynuelyn m. Arthwys m. Mar m. Keneu m. Coel
• Dunawt & Cherwyd & Sawyl Pen Uchel meibyon Pabo Post Prydein m. Arthwys m. Mar m. Keneu m. Coel
• Gwrgi & Phered meibon Eliffer Gosgord Uawr m. Arthwys m. Mar m. Keneu m. Coel
• Gwendoleu & Nud & Chof meibyon Keidyaw m. Arthwys m. Mar m. Keneu m. Coel
• Trychan cledyf Kynuerchyn a thrychan ysgwyt Kyrtnwdyon a thrycha wayw Coeling; pa neges bynhac yd elynt iddi yn duun, nyt amethei hon honno
• Ryderch Hael m. Tutwal Tutelyt m. Kedic m. Dyuynwal Hen Mordaf m. Seruan m. Kedic m. Dyfynwal Hen
• EIffin m. Gwydno m. Cawrdaf m. Garmonyawn m. Dyfynwal Hen
• Gauran m. Aedan Uradawc m. Dyuynwal Hen m. Idnyuet m. Maxen Wledic, Amherawdyr Ruuein
• Elidyr Mwynuawr m. Gorust Priodawr m. Dyfynwal Hen
• Huallu m. TutuwIch Corneu, tywyssawc o Kernyw, & Dywanw merch Amlawt Wledic y uam

King List Dumnonii http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/

• King Caradoc

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/caraddm.html

• Prince Mauric

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/mauridm.html

• King Donaut

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/donaudm.html

• Princess Ursula Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/ursuldm.html

• King Conan Meriadoc

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/conanmdm.html

• King Gadeon

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/gadeodm.html

• King Guoremor

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/guoredm.html

• Prince Cadfrod

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/cadfrodm.html

• Prince Cadgyfarch

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/cadgydm.html

• Prince Gwrfael

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/gwrfadm.html

• King Tutwal

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/tutwadm.html

• King Conomor

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/conomdm.html

• King Constantine Corneu

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/constcdm.html

• King Erbin

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/erbindm.html

• Prince Dywel

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/dyweldm.html

• Prince Piran Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/pirandm.html

• King Gerren Llyngesoc

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/gerreldm.html

• King Cado

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/cadodm.html

• Prince Justin Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/justidm.html

• Prince Selevan Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/selevdm.html

• Princess Breage Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/breagdm.html

• Prince Cyngar

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/cyngar.html

• King Constantine Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/constsdm.html

• King Gerren Sant

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/gerresdm.html

• King Bledric

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/clemedm.html

• King Clemen

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/clemedm.html

• King Petroc Baladrddellt

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/petrobdm.html

• King Culmin

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/culmidm.html

• King Dungarth

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/dungadm.html

• King Gerren

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/gerredm.html

• King Dungarth

http://www.britannia.com/bios/ebk/dungaldm.html

• Gildas De Excidio Britanniae
• Nenniuns Historia Brittonum
• The Annales Cambriae
• Anglo Saxon Chronicle
• Fordhum University's Medieval Source Book at[1]
• William of Malmesbury Gesta Regum Anglorum
• De Antiquitate Glastoniensis Ecclesiae
• "Llyfr Du Caerfyrddin" (Black Book of Carmarthen)

• Boneddy y Gwyr Gogledd Peniarth MS 45

• Urien son of Cynfarch son of Merchion son of Gorwst Lledlum son of Ceneu son of Coel.
• Llywarch Hen son of Elidyr Lydanwyn son of Meirchawn son of Gorust Ledlwm son of Keneu son of Coel. Llywarch was not only a chieftan, but is credited with several poems in both the Red Book of Hergest and the Black Book of Carmarthen.
• Clydno Eidin & Chynan Genhir & Chynuelyn Drwsgyl, Cynfawr Hadgadduc & Chatrawd Calchuynyd, are the sons of Cynnwyd Cynnwydyon son of Cynfelyn son of Arthwys son of Mar son of Keneu son of Coel.
• Dunawd & Cherwyd & Sawyl High-head are the sons of Pabo the Pillar of Britain son of Arthwys son of Mar son of Keneu son of Coel.
• Gwrgi & Peredur are the sons of Eliffer of the Great Retinue son of Arthwys son of Mar son of Keneu son of Coel.
• Gwendoleu & Nudd & Chof the sons of Ceidyaw son of Arthwys. Gwendoleu was the pagan king defeated by Maelgwn Gwynedd, Rhydderch Hael, Aedan macGabhran and Peredur at the Battle of Arthuret.
• Trychan cledyf Kynuerchyn a thrychan ysgwyt Kyrtnwdyon a thrycha wayw Coeling; pa neges bynhac yd elynt iddi yn duun, nyt amethei hon honno-.
• Rydderch Hael son of Tudwal Tudelyd son of Kedic son of Dyuynwal Hen.
• Mordaf son of Seruan son of Kedic son of Dyfynwal Hen.
• Elffin son of Gwyddno son of Cawrdaf son of Garmonyawn son of Dyfynwal Hen.
• Gabhran son of Aedan Uradawc son of Dyuynwal Hen son of Idnyued son of Warlord Maxen..
• Elidyr Mwynuawr son of Gorust Priodawr son of Dyfynwal Hen
• Huallu son of Tudfwlch Corneu, prince of Cornwall, & Dywanw daughter of Amlawdd Wledic.

. Brythonek (talk) 19:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornovii

Understood. The problem, though, is that then it's pointing to a disam page, which we want to avoid. There are lots of other options to pick from that don't go to disam pages. Closest ones I can find are Roman Britain and Britons (historical). Former is about the "country" of the time frame you are talking about. The latter is referring to the people of that area of that time. I'd go with one of those. Disam pages exist for search purposes only. Pages should not link to them unless it's absolutely necessary. --User:Woohookitty ^{Diamming fool!} 15:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand the point, but there is no justification whatsoever for using the phrase United Kingdom when discussing British/Brythonic "events" in the Dark Ages. There are always going to be some disambiguation issues with the use of words on Wikipedia, a necessary evil. Brythonek (talk) 10:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish surnames

I have started this page as it would be nice to bring together a lot of the acattered information on wikipedia regarding surnames, in this case, Cornish surnames, into a more "academic" union. Please add to this article! Brythonek (talk) 19:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish self-government movement

In my opinion, all the unverified material should be removed from the article until sourced references are provided (and is highly likely to be deleted if you don't do it yourself). I suggest that you cut and paste them into your sandbox until you have citations available, and add them back to the article then. If you need any help setting up a sandbox, or on how to create citations, please ask. By the way, the welcome template I added to your page earlier this month has many useful links too. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 16:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Diolch i chi - Thanks for doing that. For future reference, I seriously doubt that a forum would be considered a Reliable Source. Hwyl, Daicaregos (talk) 17:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I take the point- I do tend to put the links in and then check them after. Thanks for the advice, diolch yn fawr! Brythonek (talk) 10:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Hou Brythonek, just to let you know - noone can delete anything from an article's Talk page (excepting typo's of your own posts) as they are public records (so many rules). I reinstated and moved your subsequent section. Dha weles, Daicaregos (talk) 11:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Treaty of Brétigny- request for clarification June 2009

from article Cornish People The article says:

''1360 Treaty of Brétigny: "John, by the Grace of God, King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, Earl of Anjou, confirmed the aforesaid; and Richard, King of Germany and Earl of Cornwall, in like manner, confirmed the aforesaid".

I don't know where that quote comes from, but the fact is that the Treaty of Brétigny of 1360 was between King John II of France, and Edward III of England. TharkunColl 12:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

NB- original comment made in 2007 by TharkunColl yet information is still on page and leading to false edits.-

• I have moved this comment here in order to clarify-

• I have checked the Treaty of Brétigny and what is quoted here does not correspond to this treaty.

• On doing a word search to find the document it leads me to the conclusion that we have a serious error here-

• The opening appears to be part of Magna Carta and the rest does not fit.

• I am going to remove this part of the article as it is inaccurate and place the information on my talk page until it can be sorted out. Brythonek (talk) 10:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Sandbox

Hou Brythonek, I've created a sandbox for you. It is entitled User:Brythonek/Sandbox. You can access it by clicking on the page link here, or the one on your User page. Enjoy. Daicaregos (talk) 13:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish Issues

Brythonek ofcourse we should try to remain civil and respect each other. I know my comments on Cornish matters may sometimes come across as rather direct and perhaps rude but im not trying to attack you personally and i am sorry if it comes across that way. Im glad you are taking the time to try and add stuff to Cornwall articles, aslong as its balanced and well sources i support that.

I often use sarcasm in my comments and it occasionally comes across as a serious comment. On peoples identity as Cornish, i respect that right fully for people to think of themselves as Cornish and to care about Cornish identity / culture. However the issue of Cornish independence is a different matter, i view it as an attack on England and the United Kingdom. 100,000s of men have died fighting for this country, i find it very difficult to show any respect to someone who seeks to do damage to this country from within let alone destroy it all together. Whilst we must always remain civil and ensure articles on wikipedia are neutral, it is sadly impossible to overcome such differences. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ill reply to ur comment on my talk page, put it on ur watchlist if you havnt already. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish genetics

I added the following:- Please help expand and correct, especially re the dreaded red links!

The genetic markes M167-SRY2627 forming the haplogroup R1b1b2a1b3 (R1b1c6) has been attributed to the Cornish people[2]. This group is calculated to have originated 2,850 BP and is predominantly found in Spain (esp. Catalonia), Western France, Cornwall, Wales, and the Basque country among Catalans, Gascons, Bretons and Cornish respectively. The so-called Italo-Celtic haplogroup R1b1b2a1b with markers P312-S116 is calculated to have originated 4,500 BP and is found in Western Europe.

Citations/references

Hou Brythontek, re your question about citations (aka references). I think it's fair to say that references are not that easy to provide in an article, even when you have them. They are, at best, bloody awkward. The Manual of Style give some clues for citations here: WP:CITE. I have also used this previously: Wikipedia:Citation templates. In reality though. I usually just copy a reference I've used before as a template. For example - a book reference:

<ref name="Gwynfor">
{{cite book
|last=Evans
|first=Gwynfor
|authorlink =Gwynfor Evans
|title=The Fight for Welsh Freedom
|publisher=Y Lolfa Cyf
|year=2000
|location=Talybont
|isbn=0-86243-515-3
|pages=7}}</ref>

appears in the article like this:

Or a web based reference:

 <ref name="Parc 1">{{cite web
|title=Parc-le-Breos  
|url=http://www.parc-le-breos.co.uk/index.htm
|accessdate=2008-11-06 
|publisher=Parc-le-Breos  
|year=2008
|work=Parc-le-Breos website 
}}</ref> 

appears in the article like this:

If you use a "ref name", once all the details are entered you only have to note the "ref name" for subsequent citations of the same work, you just have to remember to insert the / before the final >

<ref name="Parc 1"/>

like this.

Once you've added a reference you can delete the citation needed tag.

If you are creating a new article you'll need to format the reference section like this (or they won't show up on the page):

== References ==
{{reflist|colwidth=30em}}

which will show up at the bottom of the page, after all your other text.

NB. I've created a references section just below, so you can see how they appear.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions please ask. Dha weles, Daicaregos (talk) 15:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Cornish people

Hou Brythonek, Can I ask you to check all the citations/references in the Negative portrayals of the Cornish section and add refs to those without them. I am particularly concerned with the Giles Coran paragraph (I input 'I hate their poxy language' in Google and it only provided the Wiki article itself and this. I would have expected the Times online to hold the piece in its archive) and the Chris Rundle paragraph (I assume you mean Western Daily Press - no sign of the article in their archive, although this alludes to it). Please remove any paragraphs that you are unable to find appropriate citations/references for. You could add them to your sandbox until such time as they can be verified. Please see WP:BURDEN and WP:SOURCES. Meur rasta, Daicaregos (talk) 14:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Brythonek's Bibliography and Source Finder

• Geoffrey of Monmouth, Historia Regum Britanniae (1136) - online at Wikisource
• Pseudo-Berossus, The Travels of Noah into Europe - online at Annomundi.com
• Raphael Holinshed, Chronicles: "The History of England" Vol 1 - online at Project Gutenberg
• John Milton, "The History of Britain", Prose Works Vol 2 - online at The Online Library of Liberty

• Charles W. Dunn, in a revised translation of Sebastian Evans. History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth. E.P. Dutton: New York. 1958.
• John Morris. The Age of Arthur: A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650.
• Barnes & Noble Books: New York. 1996 (originally 1973).
• John Jay Parry and Robert Caldwell. Geoffrey of Monmouth in Arthurian Literature in the Middle
• Ages, Roger S. Loomis (ed.). Clarendon Press: Oxford University. 1959. *Brynley F. Roberts, Geoffrey of Monmouth and Welsh Historical Tradition, Nottingham Medieval Studies, 20 (1976), 29-40.
• J.S.P. Tatlock. The Legendary History of Britain: Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae and its early vernacular versions. University of California Press. Berkeley. 1950.

• ANGARRACK, J. (1999). Breaking the chains. Bodmin: Quill Distributors.
• BERRESFORD ELLIS, P. (1974). The Cornish Language and its Literature.London, Routledge & Kegan Paul
• BROWN, W. (1992). A Grammar of Modern Cornish. Callington: Cornish Language
• Board.Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation 33
• COATE, M. (1963). Cornwall During the Great Civil War and Interregnum. Oxford : Oxford University Press.
• DEACON, B. et al. (1988). Cornwall at the Crossroads : Living Communities or Leisure zone? Cornish Social and Economic Research Group 1988.
• DEACON B. et al. (1999). The Cornish National Minority Report[3]
• DEACON, B. (1996). «Language revival and language debate: modernity and postmodernity», Cornish Studies, Second Series, 4. Exeter.
• DUNBAR, P.; GEORGE, K. (1997). Kernewek Kemmyn: Cornish for the Twenty-First Century. Saltash : Cornish Language Board
• DUNBAR, R. (2001). «Minority language rights in international law», International and comparative law quarterly, vol. 50.
• DUNBAR, R. (2005). The Gaelic Act 2005, Edinburgh Law Review. Edinburgh : Edinburgh University Press
• FISHMAN, J. (1991). Reversing Language Shift. Clevedon: Multilingual Matters
• FLEURIOT, L. (1969) ‘Breton et Cornique à la fin de la moyen age’, Annales de Bretagne.
• FLEURIOT, L.. (1980). Les Origines de la Bretagne. Paris: Payot.
• GENDALL, R.M.M. (1991). A Student's Grammar of Modern Cornish. Liskeard: Cornish Language Council
• GEORGE, K. (1986). “How many people spoke Cornish traditionally?”,Cornish Studies 14. Redruth, pp. 67 - 70.
• GEORGE, K. (1993). «The Revived Languages: Revived Cornish», in Ball, M.J; Fife, J. (eds). The Celtic Languages. London: Routledge. pp 644-654.
• Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation 34
• GEORGE, K. (1995). «Which Base for Revived Cornish?» in Payton, P. (ed.)(1995) Cornish Studies, Second Series, 3, Exeter, pp 104-124.
• HAWKE, A. (2001). «A rediscovered Cornish-English vocabulary». Cornish Studies, Second Series, 9, Exeter.
• JENNER, H. (1904). Handbook of the Cornish Language, London: Nutt.
• KENNEDY, N. (2002). «Fatel era ny a keel? Revived Cornish:Taking Stock». Cornish Studies, Second Series, 10, Exeter.
• LHUYD, E. (1707). Archaeologia Britannica. Oxford.
• MACKINNON, K. (2000). An Independent Study of the Cornish Language.
• http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=8473
• MILLS, J. (1999). “Reconstructive phonology and contrastive lexicology: problems with the Gerlyver Kernewek Kemmyn”, Cornish Studies, Second Series,7 Exeter.
• MURDOCH, B. (1993). Cornish Literature. Cambridge: Brewer
• OLSON, B.L.; PADEL, O.J. (1986). «A tenth century list of Cornish parochial saints», CMCS 12, 33-71.
• PADEL, O.J. (1985). Cornish Place Name Elements, EPNS vol. lvi/ii. Cambridge.
• PADEL, O.J. (1988). A Popular Dictionary of Cornish Place-Names. Penzance : Alison Hodge
• PAYTON, P. (1992). The Making of Modern Cornwall. Redruth.
• PEARSE, S. (1978). The Kingdom of Dumnonia. Padstow: Lodenek Press
• PENNINGTON, R. (1973). Stannary Law : A History of the Mining Law in Cornwall and Devon. Newton Abbot: David & Charles
• PRESTON-JONES, R., P. AND A. (1995). «Changes in the Cornish Countryside AD 400-1100», Landscape and Settlement in Britain AD400-1066 (Hooke D. & Burnell S.). Exeter.
• Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation 35
• ROWE, J. (1953). Cornwall in the Age of the Industrial Revolution. Liverpool : Liverpool University Press
• ROWSE, A.L. (1969). Tudor Cornwall. London: Truran
• STOKES, W. (ed.) (1872) Beunans Meriasek. London.
• STOYLE, M. (2002). West Britons, Cornish Identities and the early modern British state. Exeter.
• TANGUY, B. (1980). «La limite linguistique dans la péninsule armoricaine à l’époque de l’émigration bretonne ( IVe-Ve siècle) d’après les données toponymiques», Annales de Bretagne, 87, pp. 429-62.
• TANGUY, B. (1986). «Open-Fields and Enclosures in Brittany during the last thousand years:a synchronic and diachronic study of their name-elements», Nomina 10, pp..105-119.
• THOMAS, A.C. (1966). «The Character and Origins of Roman Dumnonia» in Thomas (ed.), Rural Settlement in Roman Britain. London.
• TODD, M. (1987). The South West to AD 1000. London.
• WILLIAMS, N. (1995). Cornish Today: an Examination of the Revived Language. Sutton Coldfield.
• WILLIAMS, N. (1996). «Linguistically sound principles: the case against Kernewek Kemmyn», Cornish Studies, Secons Series, 4. Exeter.

Links

• EARLY WARS OF WESSEX BEING STUDIES FROM ENGLAND'S SCHOOL OF ARMS IN THE WEST ALBANY F. MAJOR [4]
• Strategy for the Cornish language (2005) [5]
• Kowethas an Yeth Kernewek, language NGO[www.cornishlanguage.org/Cornish/Switch.asp?lang=2]
• Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation [6]
• Institute of Cornish Studies [7]
• The MacKinnon Report (2000) [8]
• Cornish History Timeline [[9]]
• Agan Tavas, language NGO [[10]]
• UK Report July 2005 to the Council of Europe ECRML[11]

ECRML[12]

• Maps and graphs of estimated language decline by Dr Ken George (1986)[[13]]
• Tyr, Gwyr, Gweryn: website with links to legal texts concerning Cornwall’s constitutional status [14]
• Restormel Council, general information [15]
• Cornish World magazine [16]
• Cornwall 24, news for the independently minded [17]
• Nowodhow Kernow, news in Kernewek
• Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation 37[18]
• BBC Kernow, some Cornish lessons[19]
• BBC Kernow, weekly news in Cornish[20]
• EBLUL UK [21]
• EBLUL [22]
• Eurolang [23]
• Mercator – Working Papers 21 Linguistic Legislation 38
• WORKING PAPERS
• Working Papers” Collection- Mercator-Linguistic Rights and

West Cornwall

I know what you mean about West Cornwall, but it's useful to be succinct and I don't think there is any danger of misunderstanding in this case. A compromise might be "modern West Cornwall". Ehrenkater (talk) 20:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

410-577

I suggest you review the paragraph 410-577 yourself as it is rather unclear at the moment. One detail I would mention is that in Welsh names, "ab" usually precedes a vowel and "ap" precedes a consonant. Ehrenkater (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Coren

Have you read it? The whole first section is a pardody, illustrating that the onlty way to get noticed is by writing racists trash. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah paraody is a double edged sword. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Dumnonii and the ref tag

Hi. Well there seem to have some improvements going on at this article, and I'm glad to see the myth and fact starting to disentangle. Just a couple of lttle tips re referencing:

1. If you are using the exact same reference then you can give it a name. I notice that at the moment there are 91 references. However (for example) http://www.roman-britain.org/tribes/dumnonii.htm#ptolemy is used 17 times. We can reduce this to one reference. This is done by adding a bit of text to the the ref tag like so:
   

<ref name=dumptol>http://www.roman-britain.org/tribes/dumnonii.htm#ptolemy</ref>

Now that the ref has a name, the second and subsequent times you can simply add <ref name=dumptol/>

Have a look at the references section of City status in the United Kingdom for an example of how that looks in practice: note the ^a, ^b etcetera.

1. There are citation templates for different sorts of references. In particular I would draw your attention to Template:citeweb which contains a number of parameters for formatting website references. With it we can transform the rather uninformative

http://www.roman-britain.org/tribes/dumnonii.htm#ptolemy
into:
"The Dumnonii". www.roman-britain.org. 14 June 2005. Retrieved 2009-06-26.
There are also "author" and "publisher" fields that I could not fill in the above example as the information was not apparent. One particularly important field is the retrieval date, as sites can change on a periodic basis, or completely disappear!

Hope that helps.... Lozleader (talk) 11:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Mercator Linguisitc Rights and Legislation

A tag has been placed on Mercator Linguisitc Rights and Legislation requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. RadioFan (talk) 12:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)