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[[Special:Contributions/97.87.29.188|97.87.29.188]] ([[User talk:97.87.29.188|talk]]) 00:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/97.87.29.188|97.87.29.188]] ([[User talk:97.87.29.188|talk]]) 00:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


'''This is stupid!!!'''
== [[Meme]] resource, [[NYT]] ==

[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/us/we-are-the-99-percent-joins-the-cultural-and-political-lexicon.html '''Camps Are Cleared,] but ‘99 Percent’ Still Occupies the [[Lexicon]]'' by Brian Stelter published November 30, 2011; excerpt ... {{quotation|The slogan was chanted again early on Wednesday morning in [[Occupy Los Angeles|Los Angeles]] and [[Occupy Philadelphia|Philadelphia]] as police there cleared out the Occupy campsites in each city. As they lost physical ground for their local movements, protesters told each other online, “You can’t evict an [[idea]].”}}
A version of this article appeared in print on December 1, 2011, on page A1 of the [[New York Times]] print edition.
This article mentions the [[Vanity Fair]] [[Joseph Stiglitz]] article that is mentioned in [[Talk:Occupy Wall Street#The New York Review of Books resource]]
[[Special:Contributions/97.87.29.188|97.87.29.188]] ([[User talk:97.87.29.188|talk]]) 01:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


== potential resource regarding Daniel Domscheit-Berg ==
== potential resource regarding Daniel Domscheit-Berg ==

Revision as of 01:56, 10 December 2011

Template:Rtnews


Info Box: Characteristics: Non-Violence

Why does the info box list non-violence as a characteristic? There are many people protesting using violent means:

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/11/06/11-protesters-arrested-after-assaulting-police-at-occupy-riverside-rally/

http://www.ksbw.com/politics/29740962/detail.html

http://www.ksbw.com/politics/29715318/detail.html

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/occupy-dc-protest-thugs-pin-museum-guard-against-wall-try-to-storm-smithsoniun-video/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-11-13/occupy-movement-violent-fringe/51188258/1

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/28/flier-at-occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/209671.php

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/132064518.html

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/occupy_er_slugs_cop_yCFvG1cOT7Mbq3XGgz2cHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T1BWETV75hU#%21

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=8429956

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_19325025

http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story/Gresham-police-bill-Occupy-Portland-for-vandalism/iYoFYCooQECw8P20siWWeQ.cspx

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2c2817%2c2395836%2c00.asp#fbid=xLk0md9IGYm?fbid%3dF94U_cqQb5A

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/man-cited-occupy-sf-arrested-again-threatening-par/nFZ9L/

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1275437870001/violence-and-the-occupy-movement/


--72.47.85.22 (talk) 14:30, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there have been thousands of arrests and hundreds of cases of violent acts being committed by the protesters; I am removing that description. --Jacksoncw (talk) 17:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think you had better wait for discussion before you remove it. I do not agree with the removal. Gandydancer (talk) 17:17, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neither do I, in a movement of this scale and decentralised/leaderless nature random acts by certain individuals operating on the fringes cannot be held as reflective of the movement as a whole. The broad movement is non-violent (although it is increasingly the victim of violence by police etc).Rangoon11 (talk) 17:23, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The great civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. advocated non-violence and his protesters were trained in non-violence, but the movement was met by extreme violence and police brutality that resulted in many deaths. That does not change the fact that it was organized as a non-violent protest. Gandydancer (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
While you're right about MLK and the civil rights movement, that doesn't transfer to the occupy movement. There is a difference between the civil rights movement "being met by violence" and occupy movement being a source of violence.--160.133.1.228 (talk) 22:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Occupy protestors are breaking windows at various banks on the west coast...

http://www.kptv.com/story/16033228/windows-smashed-at-portland-bank --72.47.85.22 (talk) 04:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are several fundamental differences between non-violence as advocated by MLK and the OWS movement. For one thing, MLK was against civil disobedience, and said that if the police wishes to arrest you or to beat you, you would let yourselves be arrested and beaten (until the conscience of the attacker stops him). That is not what was happening in OWS. MLK also advocated non-violence not just as a means but as an ends to itself, whereas the current OWS movement focuses on non-violence as a means to achieve its goal. Example: One third of surveyed protesters in a WSJ poll said that they are willing to use violence to achieve their goals, which shows that the mostly peaceful nature of the protests are more about image than philosophy. I actually find OWS's conception of "non-violence" more sensible myself, but that is not the way MLK or Gandhi saw it, so the use of the term is misleading. I believe the term "civil disobedience" which is currently in the article is a good substitute. JimSukwutput 16:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you do not understand the meaning of civil disobedience. Read the articles. Gandydancer (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So you insist that the OWS was organized as a "non-violent" protest following the philosophy of MLK? Why? JimSukwutput 05:41, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I have to agree that the inclusion of the phrase 'non-violence', should be removed as not pertinent to the available facts. While no-violence may be part of some of Occupy's original messages and is still in use in some factions, is not totally applicable in the overall Occupy movement or its practices. Evidence of violence is not limited to isolated fringe incidents, but Occupy's own livestream archives show repeated acts of Occupy members at large overturning dumpsters, breaking down barricades and trashing public areas. Other supportive rationale points:

  • The basing of the movement on Arab Spring (as officially confirmed by Occupy itself) which was not a non-violent movement.
  • Official Occupy imagery in its posters and literature contain violent graphics and images; tanks, dripping blood, raised fists, etc., and colors used are black and red.
  • The official slogans and phrasing are also not 'non-violent'. E.g., "Let the US Days of Rage Begin', 'Fight Back', and other official verbiage evoke violence. A current posted slogan on the official sites is at this writing: 'The Only Solution is World Revolution'.
  • Occupy's own Livestreams of evictions show widespread threatening gestures and active confrontation from Occupy members at large.
  • Official Occupy 'calls to protest' are not non-violent acts by definition. For example, the 12/12 call to blockade all California ports in order 'to shut them down'.
  • One of the stated major goals of the Occupy movement that appears in print in their official literature is 'to destroy capitalism'.

It is true that its founding organizers may have wished it to be non-violent, but evidently from its own official actions and publications it has moved away from non-violence. Polling the editors, is it just Gandydancer who thinks the phrase 'non-violent' is still applicable and should remain? Is non violence their actual paradigm based upon their own publications and activities? Awolnetdiva (talk) 10:53, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

'Is the protest more or less violent than other protests' is the question that has to be answered for wiki standards. Not whether or not any violence occurred. Please keep on the right track people. Penyulap talk 12:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

create or activate translations

Forgive me, I have never used the Discussion board, and do not know how to do so properly. However, it would be a significant contribution if an editor could activate or create translations of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement into more languages than the six listed. It is an "international protest movement"[1] therefore it should be available on Wikipedia in as many languages as possible. Thank you for your time and patience.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.219.123.132 (talk) 02:41, 17 November 2011‎ (UTC)[reply]

Occupy Everything

I've seen several references to the 2009 Occupy Everything being part of the basis of the Occupy movement. See Los Angeles Review of Books [2] by Joshua Clover. occupyca dates back to 2009. There were similar Occupy events in NYC.[3] While it is always going to be difficult to draw the line to say where this movement started, I think we need a 'history' section to broadly cover some of these obvious fore-runners. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, good idea.Rangoon11 (talk) 02:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This link may be of interesting in establishing its history. It is the first known web mention from adbusters, who helped foment the movement in some regard. http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/occupywallstreet-update.html Awolnetdiva (talk) 10:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deaths

The death count says that there are eight deaths, but of the three sources linked to it one's a dead link, one doesn't link to the article, and the third only lists two deaths. The titles of the other two imply that there were only 4 deaths total; one woman and three men. 68.42.20.87 (talk) 07:17, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Impact

This entire section was removed with the explanation that it's OR. This article needs a section that describes what, if any, impact, including social impact, this movement has had. Every proposition is amply supported by RS. I will restore this unless there are objections.--NYCJosh (talk) 22:44, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is too soon to gauge the full global impact of this fledgling and multifaceted social movement. In the United States, the protests have helped shift the national dialogue from the deficit to economic problems ordinary Americans face, such as unemployment,[1] the large amount of student and other personal debt that burdens middle class and working class Americans,[2] and other major issues of social inequality, such as homelessness.[3] The movement does appear to have generated a national conversation about income inequality, as print and broadcast news has mentioned the term “income inequality” more than five times more often during the last week of October 2011 than during the week before the occupation began.[4]
Labor unions have become bolder in the tactics they employ and have been using digital social media more effectively because of the Occupy movement.[5] In New York City, the Occupy Wall Street protest has also provided hundreds of protesters to help in picket actions conducted by labor unions.[5] A survey by the media analysis company Global Language Monitor published in early November 2011 found that 'Occupy' had been the most commonly-used word in English-language media worldwide over the prior 12 months.[6]
Personally I thought that the deletion of the whole section was too swingeing. It needed some work, but not gutting.Rangoon11 (talk) 23:46, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bias

there doesn't seem to be...any... mention of "the movement" experiencing any troubles. the whole article reads with heavy bias toward propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.180.123 (talk) 06:07, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Be specific. Where is the bias, and what trouble were you expecting? If you can cite it, you can add it. +mt 08:02, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Weezer1982 or the revision before. Thank you. 67.61.16.136 (talk) 16:51, 21 November 2011 (UTC)bRiMaTiOn[reply]

potential resource A Sleeping Giant Awakens cover story

  • American Spring? by Robert Hirschfield in December 2011 issue of Sojourners magazine, "Finding connections between the past, present, and future at Occupy Wall Street."
  • From the Editors, "Even while Occupy Wall Street and the worldwide movement it has helped ignite captured the public’s attention this fall, some observers claimed not to understand what the protests were all about."

99.190.83.205 (talk) 04:33, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Occupy Dataran edits

I made some edits to de-emphasize Occupy Dataran. I feel this is appropriate because of the much smaller scope and coverage of that event; other than the similar theme and the "Occupy" name, it likely wouldn't be all that notable except for OWS/etc. I've left it in the lede to not completely nuke the event, but I'm not sure it even belongs there...simply because "Occupy" was barely covered until multiple weeks of OWS. Furthermore, the refs for Occupy Dataran in the body were Facebook photos; those are not appropriate references. The reference in the lede seems fine, being an English-language Malaysian publication, but again, I'm not sure whether it should be noted there. I lean towards including it earlier in the body and removing it from the lede, but I'm not going to remove it unless nobody chimes in against doing so. – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 09:12, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about moving it to the "earlier body". I have moved it to the 'background' section. Pass a Method talk 21:13, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's be careful about avoiding systemic bias towards events in English-speaking countries. The location of the first 'Occupy' protests does seem of lead-worthy significance to me. From small acorns big trees grow.Rangoon11 (talk) 21:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree for three reasons. a) The event is isolated several weeks before the other protests. b) The Malaysian protest was a minor one not covered by western reliable sources. c) your suggestion borders WP:NPOV Pass a Method talk 03:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is the English language version. You will find the others in their own language. Naturally, if you know something we don't please please add it. Thanks. OccupyLink (talk) 20:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bias (maybe)

The article seems to be mainly concentrating on the negative aspects of the Occupy Movement. The summary has all sorts of examples of people being removed from their site, run ins with police, etc. Many cities are holding firm, and have lots of support, and this is not being reported. Thanks and kind regards. OccupyLink (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

SOFIXIT. Rangoon11 (talk) 20:23, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am trying to fix it. You keep deleting what I write. Who are you? OccupyLink (talk) 20:56, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Be careful, as you are using a name OccupyLink which connotates a connection to the movement, that you do not provide bias in the opposite direction. Verified expert sources are best, and opinion has little place except where noted as opinion. Unverified commentary can be removed as not pertinent. Awolnetdiva (talk) 11:02, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Official recognition

In the summary, various police clashes are being highlighted. Sites are being removed, attempted recovery of the site by the protesors etc. Equally, if not more important is government bodies, churches and other authorities recognizing the movement. In the case of Edinburgh, Edinburgh Occupy has been officially recognized by a formal vote taken by the Edinburgh Council. All political parties were there. This is very important and should be in the summary. OccupyLink (talk) 21:36, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits are, frankly, junk. And having been reverted twice they should not have been readded without discussion here. Rangoon11 (talk) 23:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's everybody watch how we address each other! A little respect and guidance goes a long way.--NYCJosh (talk) 22:06, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Offical recognitions of Occupies seem important. Let's have some views and sources right here, please.--NYCJosh (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The content in question is still there. I'm still unconvinced that it is lead-worthy. My comment above was perhaps a bit too sharp but to be honest I found a new editor with a blatantly COI username trying to impose very poor quality and POV-pushing edits through edit warring, bulk reverting good faith tidy ups, and posting unconstructive criticisms of the article on this page, was itself pretty disrespectful to this project and regular editors of this article.Rangoon11 (talk) 22:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

potential resource

Capitalism vs. the Climate; What the right gets - and the left doesn't - about the revolutionary power of climate change. by Naomi Klein November 9, 2011. This article appeared in the November 28, 2011 edition of The Nation (pages 11-21); excerpt ...

But these connections go beyond a shared critique of corporate power. As Occupiers ask themselves what kind of economy should be built to displace the one crashing all around us, many are finding inspiration in the network of green economic alternatives that has taken root over the past decade—in community-controlled renewable energy projects, in community-supported agriculture and farmers' markets, in economic localization initiatives that have brought main streets back to life, and in the co-op sector. Already a group at OWS is cooking up plans to launch the movement’s first green workers’ co-op (a printing press); local food activists have made the call to “Occupy the Food System!”; and November 20 is “Occupy Rooftops”—a coordinated effort to use crowd-sourcing to buy solar panels for community buildings.

99.190.86.244 (talk) 09:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NYT resource William Yardley

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/business/media/the-branding-of-the-occupy-movement.html 97.87.29.188 (talk) 23:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

USA Today frontpage (in print) resource

'Occupiers' defy simple descriptions by Rick Hampson 97.87.29.188 (talk) 00:05, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Occupy Wall Street protesters arrive in D.C. after 231-mile walk from New York" resource Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/occupy-wall-street-protesters-arrive-in-dc-after-231-mile-walk-from-new-york/2011/11/22/gIQA1RqdmN_story.html by Tim Craig, Published: November 22, 2011

Also see NYC Occupy Wall Street and Occupy DC. 97.87.29.188 (talk) 00:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is stupid!!!

potential resource regarding Daniel Domscheit-Berg

In 2011, Daniel Domscheit-Berg was named by Foreign Policy magazine to its list of top global thinkers, with Sami Ben Gharbia and Alexey Navalny.[7] He stated Occupy Wall Street was the Best Idea. In print, on page 60, #24 for shaping the new world of government transparency.

99.181.139.218 (talk) 04:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

US Demands

Below is the US demands paragraph that was in the article. The reference actually disavows the fact that the demands are from OWS as a whole. A better reference is needed.--Nowa (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In late November 2011, the aims of US protestors were incorporated into a fuller list which includes eleven "demands": 1) campaign finance reform, 2) media democratization: "that media companies be owned and managed by their staff," 3) the creation of "citizen boards" to influence corporate regulation and deter regulatory capture, 4) "expropriation of the health insurance industry," 5) "immediate review" of the constitutionality of the Patriot Act, 6) immediate student loan reform and "gradual implementation of a publicly funded...education system," 7) "restoration of the social safety net," 8) "an end to imperialistic wars" 9) "employee ownership plans" be required of private corporations, 10) investigation of crimes of the existing financial industry and replacement of that industry by "publicly owned, worked-managed" institutions, and 11) a truly democratic "economy and political system that works for the 99%." [8]

Occupy movement in Tunisia

According to Tunisialive.net, there is a movement to occupy Bardo in Western Tunis. We might want to make reference to it. Here's a link: http://www.tunisia-live.net/2011/12/04/occupy-bardo-live-updates --Yalens (talk) 23:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

foreclosure resource

99.181.136.158 (talk) 01:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Salon, 27 Oct. 2011, "The Victory OWS Has Already Won: The Protests Have Helped Shift the National Dialogue from the Deficit to the Real Problems Americans Face," http://www.salon.com/2011/10/27/the_victory_ows_has_already_won/
  2. ^ Tikkun, 9 November 2011, An Important Occupy Wall Street Victory: Shifting the Conversation from 'National Deficit' to 'Personal Debt,'" http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2011/11/09/occupy-wall-streets-victory-shifting-the-conversation-from-national-defecit-to-personal-debt/
  3. ^ AlterNet, 8 Nov. 2011, "4 Occupations Embracing the Homeless (As Cities Increasingly Can't Take Care of Them: It is impossible to separate homelessness from Occupy Wall Street's struggle for economic justice," http://www.alternet.org/story/153020/occupy_movement_brings_attention_to_the_homeless_
  4. ^ Politico, 11 Nov. 2011, "Occupy Wall Street is Winning," http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1111/Occupy_Wall_Street_is_winning.html
  5. ^ a b New York Times, 8 Nov. 2011, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/business/occupy-movement-inspires-unions-to-embrace-bold-tactics.html?pagewanted=all
  6. ^ "'Occupy' is most commonly used word in English language media, claims study". The Telegraph. 10 November 2011. Retrieved 15 November 2011.
  7. ^ http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/11/28/the_fp_top_100_global_thinkers?page=0,23#thinker24
  8. ^ Kristjanson-Gural, David. "I Am the Spokesperson for #OWS: These Are Our Demands". LA Progressive. Dick Price and Sharon Kyle. Retrieved 29 November 2011.
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