User talk:UCRGrad

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3RR violation on University of California, Riverside

Because you and User:TheRegicider have both violated the Wikipedia:Three-revert rule, I have made a report on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. You will likely be blocked by an administrator. Please refrain from edit warring in the future. Thank you. szyslak (t, c, e) 08:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block on University of California, Riverside

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. The duration of the block is 3 hours. The block will be extended if you return to extensive reverting William M. Connolley 11:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Some things to think about

Hi UCRGrad. I think it's awesome that you're adding your perspective to the UCR article. It's obvious that you weren't happy with your experience there, and that's cool. Just like any university, it's not for everyone. However, as a longtime Wikipedia editor, I think you should consider taking a different approach. For one thing, you've been making some personal attacks against other editors. Per WP:NPA, personal attacks are not permitted on Wikipedia. When you make rude, incivil comments, it poisons the working atmosphere and makes people less likely to want to work with you. Nobody wants to listen to suggestions from people who are shouting at them and unwilling to accept other alternatives. So please consider changing the way you work with others here at Wikipedia. Thanks, and happy editing! szyslak (t, c, e) 04:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppeting

I have blocked your sockpuppet indefinitely. I'm not going to block your main account at this time but please consider this a stern warning. Best, Mackensen (talk) 00:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove the notice from your user page. Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 00:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

ATTENTION MACKENSEN: I am outraged that I have been accused of having a sockpuppet. Your RFC procedure is FLAWED - because it does not rule out the possibility that two distinct people may be using the same network and/or sets of computers. I will admit that I know who 909er is (though I should not have to reveal this), and that there may have been some collaboration on a few posts. If there are some shared elements of style (such as bolding), that is because I may have directed it. However, my understanding is that this type of activity is not necessarily prohibited. It certainly does not warrant having a "sockpuppet" label on my talk page because this does not strictly meet the definition of a sockpuppet. I hereby request that this sockpuppet business be removed. UCRGrad 01:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Save it. Obviously you know this person, since you both edit from the same cable modem within an hour of each other. Repeatedly. If you stop denying the obvious I'm prepared to let this go. Further disruption can only lead to a block. Mackensen (talk) 01:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

ATTENTION MACKENSEN: So, if a friend of mine, who happens to share my opinion on the state of this article, decides that he wants to make his own vocal contribution, I don't see what the problem is. Obviously, I'm not going to let him use MY account. So "909er" made some abrasive comments here and there. I can't control what he writes, nor should I be held responsible solely because he happens to be using MY computers, even if I happened to be sitting 2 feet away. I bet if you carefully go through your IP logs again to look for dissimilarities (rather than similarities) in access patterns, you'll find that what I'm saying is the case. There is no sockpuppet business here. I expect the sockpuppet label to be removed. Furthermore, I would like 909er's account to be reinstated, provided your only reason for locking it was suspected sockpuppetry. I have many colleagues who are far more knowledgable about UC Riverside than Tifego and "the others" - in the future, when I ask them to contribute, I will make sure they are using a distinct computer network, so we don't have to go through this crap again. Thank you. UCRGrad 16:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I've heard this before and have no reason to believe it. Even if you are telling the truth, so-called "meatpuppetry" is highly frowned upon and treated the same way. Whether you did it yourself or had someone do it for you matters not. I'm restoring the sock label. If you remove it again I will block you for disruption. Mackensen (talk) 16:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

You've "heard this before," therefore *I* am lying? That doesn't make any sense. Secondly, I didn't hold a gun to this individual's head and demand that he type his response. If you find what he wrote objectionable, then HE should be sanctioned, NOT ME. Technically, I would be hard-pressed to even call this "meatpuppetry," but it is absolutely 100% not sockpuppetry, and I believe that it is unfair to label it as such. Did you even re-check the IP logs???? I am asking you to reconsider. I would also like to request that an independent 3rd-party administrator review this case and independently review the IP logs as well. Again, thank you. UCRGrad 17:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I've heard this from one sockpuppeteer after another. It's always their roommate, or the fellow across the hall, or their children, etc. I have re-checked the IP logs and I find them conclusive. I'll ask another administrator to review my findings as a matter of courtesy. Mackensen (talk) 17:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I had a look too and spotted the sockpuppet without prompting from Mackensen. Your pattern is obvious. You appear to have mistaken Wikipedia's tremendous tolerance for stupidity. Please don't assume that if it would fool you it must fool everyone else - David Gerard 17:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't fricking believe this. And what kind of pattern might this be? Two users who obviously know each other using the same computers back to back? UCRGrad 17:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC) And did you check as far back as the day 909er initially registered (right after my 3-hour "ban")? I understand that it must feel satisfying and rewarding when you think you've "caught" what MUST be a "typical sockpuppeteer," and yeah it probably seems like it first glance, but did it ever occur to you that you might be incorrect??? What type of evidence would it take to prove my case to you? UCRGrad 17:40, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

(moved from UCR talk page)

4.) It's your pejorative. But I still feel as though you have some axe to grind. (E.g. "Additionally, only 5% of UCR alumni donate back to their alma mater, the lowest alumni giving rate of any national university.") Honestly, answer me this, why were you unhappy at Riverside? Did you really feel that Riverside was worthless? Or are you just some USC/UCLA/Berkeley troll trying to sully Riverside?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Teknosoul02 (talk • contribs)

Whether he has an axe to grind or not, some of the behavior of UCRGrad here is hard to classify as anything but trolling (although he's not the only one doing this). But, might I suggest you move things that pertain only to him (like #4) to his talk page, so it doesn't interrupt talk about the article overly much? –Tifego^(t) _{00:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)}

I have neither stated nor implied that I a) was unhappy at Riverside or b) felt that Riverside was worthless. I do not appreciate being asked if I am a USC/UCLA/Berkeley troll. Ironically, your line of responses and questioning are characteristic of trolling yourself. Good thing we have that troll warning up at the top of this page.

UCRGrad 00:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to get personal (even if it sounds this way). But if you weren't unhappy, why is there's too much emphasis on the negative aspects of UC Riverside (e.g., bringing up the stats that students are very unhappy according to Princeton Review)? Again, there are so many schools out there that are arguably so much worse than Riverside. And even top schools like UCLA have their share of problems (UCLA also has "too many teaching assistants teach upper class courses according to Princeton Review).

Well, I'd disagree with your assertion that there's "too much emphasis on the negative aspects of UC Riverside." I think it is an accurate and fair portrayal. It is objective, and it is appropriately referenced. The statistics are what they are. UCRGrad 01:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

"According to 2003-05 data published by the UC Office of the President (Merced excluded) [citation needed], UCR had the highest percentage of low socioeconomic status (SES) students compared to other UC's. Low SES was defined as family income below $30,000 per year and first generation college. Based on Academic Performance Index data, the freshman classes at UCR are composed of the highest percentage of students graduating from low-performing high schools. The retention rate for freshmen is 85%, the lowest of any UC.[23] Additionally, only 5% of UCR alumni donate back to their alma mater, the lowest alumni giving rate of any national university.[23] [24] The rates at UCLA and UC Davis are at 16% and 10% respectively. According to The Princeton Review's 2004 publication of "Best 351 College Rankings", UC Riverside ranked #12 nationwide for "least happy students".

Currently, all UC-eligible high school seniors in California who apply to the Riverside campus will be offered admission.[16] As such, UCR's acceptance rate has always been amongst the highest (79% for 2004-05) and average GPA/SAT (3.48 and 1074, respectively) amongst the lowest, compared to the other UC schools. In order to attract more competitive applicants, UCR has invited home-schooled and other nontraditional students to submit a portfolio of their work in addition to test scores.[17] In 2004, Stephanie Kay, a lecturer in the Department of English, estimated that 60% of incoming UCR freshman are not capable of writing standard college English"

Lemme ask how this is NOT emphasizing the negative aspects of UC Riverside. Again, maybe if Riverside WOULD STOP COMPARING ITSELF TO OTHER UC SCHOOLS, this would provide UC Riverside students/graduates an incentive not to feel so bitter and sorry for themselves. The problem with this article is too much emphasis on: "UC Riverside sucks becuase it's not as good as UCLA and UC Berkeley. The students at UC Riverside are dumb and stupid and only go to UC Riverside b/c the only other alternative is junior college." you're doing very little to make UC Riverside graduates feel good about themselves. There's too much of this whiny "Waaaah, why can't UC Riverside be as good as UCLA or Berkeley!!!!" Well, if these people "wish" they could've gone to say UC Berkeley or UCLA, those same people will feel sorry for themselves b/c they wished they went to Stanford.

While it may be true that UC Riverside students are not the brightest kids in the neighborhood, to constantly reinforce this perception does little to boost Riverside grad's self-esteem. It's a vicious, never-ending cycle: the more UC Riverside students are reminded that they are "UC Rejects" and "couldn't get into a better college due to lack of intelligence and work ethic", the more UC Riverside kids lose confidence in their abilities and they become even WORSE off. in the end, all you're doing is destroying Riverside and its student pride. This is when trolls from USC/UCLA/Berkeley win. They win because they can boast: "See, I told you that UC Riverside people are total failures in their lives!" Don't let the trolls from USC/UCLA/Berkeley win. Teknosoul02 19:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, Teknosoul, I understand your frustration. Unfortunately, my job an encyclopedia editor is not to change social perceptions or enhance the image that the public has for UC Riverside. My purpose is to provide objective information about the school, and nothing more. I disagree with you that there is an overly negative emphasis on UC Riverside. I merely chose the statistics that I believe are relevant to an article on a university - and this is based on extensive personal experience and reading a great deal on this topic from major publications. Naturally, a UC school will be compared with other UC schools - that goes without saying. If it isn't done in this article, it is done everywhere else. At least by providing objective numbers and comparisons, people can get the information they need without looking in several different places (the goal of an encyclopedia article). I don't know where this troll-business comes from, so I don't know how to respond to it. UCR is what it is. UCRGrad 22:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

If you look in the archives, there's a poster named CalWatch who is trying to smear UC Riverside's name and reputation. It's obvious he's a Berkeley troll (he even mentioned he was from UC Berkeley). So if people like him are trying to sully Riverside's name, you better be sure there are similar trolls like him around. Teknosoul02 18:30, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

RFAR

I have filed an RFAR against you here [1].--Amerique 16:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Wish granted

See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests. 02:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi

UCRGrad,

This is not intended to be accusatory or anything of that nature, but I am curious as to why you are so keen as to keep a quote that is quite frankly, a slap in the face to the institution that provided you with your education and college degree. I appreciate your enthusiasm for wanting to keep an opinion on this article that trashes your very own alma mater. But I find it rather peculiar that you are willing to condone an opinion that calls UC Riverside, the very school that you graduated from (your own alma mater, where you got your degree from) an "abomination to higher education".

I don't have a major preference one way or the other whether the quote stays. What I DO have a problem with is people trying to change this article's contents for trivial reasons or ones that lack merit. We have had too many problems with people who "feel" that XYZ statement doesn't belong, but when it came down to it, they really couldn't justify why. I am not part of the promotional office of UC Riverside. My purpose here is not to inflate the image of UCR, even though doing so would obviously be beneficial to me. As an impartial individual with extensive knowledge of the campus, I can provide a very accurate and representative article - and that is my goal. Any changes to the text should be made with adequate justification, not because "somebody feels like this or that." UCRGrad 00:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Overall, while I don't agree with the article and see it as POV, I am willing to keep most of it intact "as is". However, all I ask is that we delete a quote that is frankly, blatantly offensive to the university and the students who attended UC Riverside and likely spent 3-4 years of their life there trying to get an education and better themselves. I have never attended UC Riverside, but this quote is not fair to those who did attend and many may feel deeply offended to see that the university they worked hard to earn their degree in is labeled an "abomination to higher education". If I react so strongly to that statement, imagine how the school and the students/alumni feel when they see that? Whatever your personal feelings are for this school--and I understand you likely have very strong negative feelings for this school, whatever the reason--for the greater good of wikipedia and the goal of making a complete, objective, and fairly represented article, let's delete the UCR abomination quote and the reference to studentsreview.com. We are NOT changing the overall scheme of the article; just think of it as fine-tuning. Thanks for reading this and I appreciate your response. Best, Teknosoul02 23:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

So what I'm hearing from you is that you're concerned that graduates of UCR might "feel bad" or be offended by the quote, and therefore it should be removed? While I understand your concern, unfortunately, we cannot just remove lines from articles just because there is the potential for people to be offended. Now, granted, if something is untrue, unreferenced, or is obscene, it should be removed - and WP policy supports this. However, MANY articles contain positive and negative facts about various things. It would be inane to remove negative facts just because people might "feel bad" by reading them. I supposed you'd also want to argue that we should remove mention of UCR's #85 ranking because graduates might be said that they aren't in a Top 50 school. Do you see how ridiculous your reasoning is?

UCRGrad 00:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)