Talk:First Balkan War: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 16:33, 23 February 2023

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Military history: Balkan / European / Ottoman C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
	European military history task force
	Ottoman military history task force

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

European history C‑class High‑importance

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Bulgaria C‑class High‑importance

	Bulgaria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bulgaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bulgaria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BulgariaWikipedia:WikiProject BulgariaTemplate:WikiProject BulgariaBulgaria articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Former countries: Ottoman Empire C‑class

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Ottoman Empire (assessed as High-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Greece C‑class High‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greek history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Serbia C‑class High‑importance

	Serbia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Montenegro C‑class High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Montenegro, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Montenegro on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MontenegroWikipedia:WikiProject MontenegroTemplate:WikiProject MontenegroMontenegro articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Albania C‑class High‑importance

	First Balkan War is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania articles
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

Interesting and relevant information

Contemporaneous accounts identify five factors that led to the defeat: (1) the recent military discharge of large contingents of soldiers from the Balkans; (2) the military reforms that decimated the experienced officer cadres, replacing them with young, inexperienced officers; (3) the ensuing unpreparedness of the reformed army; (4) the lack of armaments, provisions, and communication; and (5) a politicized military that prioritized political loyalty over making the right military decisions.^[1]

(t · c) buidhe 15:07, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is very vague. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.163.188 (talk) 15:16, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Göçek, Fatma Müge (2015). Denial of Violence: Ottoman Past, Turkish Present and Collective Violence Against the Armenians, 1789–2009. Oxford University Press. p. 232. ISBN 978-0-19-933420-9.

"Under the tyrannical and paranoid regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid II"

Please make the page more natural every ruler can be tyrannical or paranoid depending on who you ask. 37.231.254.79 (talk) 17:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yo

Yup 2409:4042:230F:C53E:0:0:1AD8:F0B1 (talk) 19:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Undue weight

The section 'Serbian atrocities against Albanians' deals with atrocities that occurred in a tiny part of the Balkan war theatre. This section also describes the events that happened in Albanian in a very detailed level even using primary reports directly such as 'newspaper x claimed y etc'. It obviously needs trimming, while information of atrocities that occurred in other parts of the Balkans needs to be added instead to secure neutral coverage of atrocities happened during Balkan Wars.Alexikoua (talk) 01:12, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian atrocities against Albanians

I've been asked to open a talk thread first, before removing anything related to this section, yet I don't see one when this section was added? This section contributes nothing to the page, sources are extremely biased and not confirmed to be historically accurate. The section was clearly added in order to disrepute Serbian nation and ethnicity, and create prejudice toward Serbs. Most of the sources are coming from foreign press (at the time) without much evidence, and writers with biased point of view. There was no organisation at the time, to determine and investigate such things. This section all together should be excluded from this wiki page, if it's going to cover alleged war crimes committed by a specific nation, and not objectively cover all of them across the Balkans during the war. Energykiller (talk) 10:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The section can be improved, and merged into another section so it does not stay on its own. You can do that by proposing changes here. You can also add content on crimes against other ethnic groups. The whole removal of the section's content does not seem to be sth that can be justified. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is justified, I was elaborated clearly in this thread, which you blatantly ignored or didn't even bother to comprehend, you literally did not provide any arguments to counter that, especially since this section was added without any supervision and justification whatsoever. If you want to improve it and add it under some other section, feel free to do that, I am not going to. But do it in such way that it does justice to general contribution of the article, not project your view to the general public. Energykiller (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A first step would be to trim this very selective information by 90% (most of it is based on primary -no scholarly- accounts anyway), and add data that's related to atrocities in the various battlegrounds of this war.Alexikoua (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, finally someone reasonable. Let's do it Energykiller (talk) 08:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Those estimates aren't even accepted by the correspondent reference provided... claims by a local imam, a soldier's memoirs, an article by a contemporary newspaper. Some trimming is warranted in this case especially when those claims are not widely accepted. Alexikoua (talk) 04:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That was my point as well. Can't really believe that other contributors allowed this section to stay on the wiki page without checking the sources first (I guess cause they are very biased). To make it even worse, lots of them are still trying to revert what you've trimmed down, even with the facts that we've pointed out in this talk thread. Energykiller (talk) 19:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Christopher Clark's "The Sleepwalkers" (according to the Washington Post "a work of rare beauty"). On page 44 he describes the horrific atrocities the Serbians committed in Macedonia in 1913. I tried to edit the article and cited Clark, but my changes were removed immediately. Obviously, such information is not welcome here. XeniaBW (talk) 16:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Göçek, Fatma Müge (2015). Denial of Violence: Ottoman Past, Turkish Present and Collective Violence Against the Armenians, 1789–2009. Oxford University Press. p. 232. ISBN 978-0-19-933420-9.

[1]

@@ Line 50: / Line 50: @@
 :::::Those estimates aren't even accepted by the correspondent reference provided... claims by a local imam, a soldier's memoirs, an article by a contemporary newspaper. Some trimming is warranted in this case especially when those claims are not widely accepted. [[User:Alexikoua|Alexikoua]] ([[User talk:Alexikoua|talk]]) 04:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 ::::::That was my point as well. Can't really believe that other contributors allowed this section to stay on the wiki page without checking the sources first (I guess cause they are very biased). To make it even worse, lots of them are still trying to revert what you've trimmed down, even with the facts that we've pointed out in this talk thread. [[User:Energykiller|Energykiller]] ([[User talk:Energykiller|talk]]) 19:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
+:Please read Christopher Clark's "The Sleepwalkers" (according to the Washington Post "a work of rare beauty"). On page 44 he describes the horrific atrocities the Serbians committed in Macedonia in 1913. I tried to edit the article and cited Clark, but my changes were removed immediately. Obviously, such information is not welcome here. [[User:XeniaBW|XeniaBW]] ([[User talk:XeniaBW|talk]]) 16:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)