Talk:2022 French legislative election

New legislative infobox

I'm going to remain simple: who has decided on the transition from the previous "election infobox" to "legislative election", and why? Honestly, it just looks so empty and incomplete... Plus, this new infobox model is totally unsuitable for two-round elections... Maybe reverting to the previous infobox would be (much) better... or, at least, let me fix it instead of reverting every change I make. :)

It is better to use it as the focus is on the parties and coalitions, not the individual(s) leadings them. It may look empty, but the info is below in the article, and it is better to use the second round as the majority of elections for seats took place in the second round. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 12:22, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. Nonetheless, solely focusing on the second round results ends up actually distorting the reality of electoral results (in terms of popular vote). In France, we have a common saying: "in the first round, you choose. In the second round, you eliminate". So, I think it would be far smarter and intelligible to include the first round results (popular vote share) as a matter of intellectual sincerity. Frenchpolit (talk) 16:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The rule is applied to Thai elections. If you were to include both results, in this case Thailand with constituency and PR results, it would make the infobox rather messy. Also, just because it is a saying, doesn't mean it should be applied to infoboxes and other things. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:31, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed this by reading the article on the 2022 Italian general election, but it really seems odd and unclear. Maybe the infobox model should be reviewed... at least, I feel like the previous election infobox was much more suitable. Frenchpolit (talk) 16:50, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The infobox uses the latter part of the election, or the proportional one. If you have further questions, your probably best asking this user. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 16:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

To add nuance to the conversation (I understand I am very late to this conversation but I did want to make my voice heard here). I think the choice for second round results is a smart one, it avoids confusion of what the results are and usually people care more about second round results than first round ones. I do however, agree with the first comment made that the design looks worse (no offense), the infobox should be clear and easy to access, people should be able to quickly get info from it without going deeper. As such, I think it's better for it to be more visually appealing, it immediately attracts the reader's attention and they get a debrief before going into the article. This new infobox doesn't do that, you have to squint to read out the names, and hover on top to even get an idea of what party is what (as oppose to before where the clearly visible colours already indicated some information to the reader). I understand the necessity to have readers focus on coalitions over leaders, but in that case, wouldn't it be better to add party logos instead of portraits? It does the job while keeping the visually pleasing aspect an infobox should. An infobox needs to have the results in clear bold writing, not in a microscopic scale that forces readers to zoom in. This isn't targeted at anyone to be clear, just wondering and asking if it would be possible to revert to an old, albeit compromised version. Idk, I just appreciated it way more Historybuffedmasters (talk) 17:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

The font size is the same for both infoboxes, so you would be squinting whatever version is used. I completely agree that the infobox should be clear, easy to access and provide a provide a brief, and the current infobox does that much more effectively – it fits on a single page and contains more information (as eleven parties can be listed as opposed to a maximum of nine). The previous infobox was horrendously complicated and very difficult to read. If using the first round percentages is an issue, then a solution is that percentage column can be hidden. Number 57 23:18, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

New map request

Someone should probably make a map of what the partisan affiliations are of the NUPES' candidates in each constituencies, see examples in [1] [2]; if exists, the map should also be added to the NUPES article too —twotwofourtysix^{(My talk page and contributions)} 02:32, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

on it Talleyrand6 (talk) 13:39, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

AGIR has elected 4 deputies.... TDP one......

PRG has elected one.....

DPF one, too....

Generation S has elected three deputies... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinicius7070 (talk • contribs) 02:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Results Sources

Hi all, I just wanted to enquire where everyone has got their sources for the results of the first round from. I'm aware of the official Ministry of the Interior and Le Monde pages, but these do not for example break down the LR-UDI electoral coalition by party. I thought it would be best to use the official Interior Ministry results, but if there are other sources with more information I would agree to using those. Thanks Quinby (talk) 14:38, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Ignore the above - I didn't realise the Le Monde page broke down the LR-UDI coalition Quinby (talk) 14:40, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Why do you show a picture of the communist Melanchon before the actual winner??

En Marche got slightly more votes than the left-wing list. The numbers showing leftists ahead are false.

93.206.50.181 (talk) 01:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Look at the numbers from Le Monde, and the explanation in the text box on their page. Some Nupes candidates had not had their affiliation registered by the ministry of interior. https://www.lemonde.fr/resultats-elections/ 2001:700:301:5:F4D0:43CB:7AF:28FE (talk) 13:14, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

In the results of the first round of the French legislative election of 2022 I have discovered a small mistake. The Dordogne constituency 3, Dordogne-03, does have a 'triangle' (three candidates) for the second round. The RN-candidate must be included. That means the box of Florece Joubert must be marked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A444:E7D4:1:8D1F:FDCB:1A64:B165 (talk) 09:07, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Underperformance of NUPES should be mentioned

"NUPES became the largest parliamentary opposition group...."

Yeah, but they managed to get only 131 seats instead of the 150 to 200 projected seats according to pre-election polls. On the other hand, Marine Le Pen and RN massively overperformed polling driven public expectations.

93.206.55.203 (talk) 01:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

The reason right now is on Disputed between Minitry of the Interior and the Election Participant Groups. So stay calm, no vandalism, and no unrighteousness Raden Maksim (talk) 02:31, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Right now, the nr. of seats add up to 588 because of inconsistencies. If the Ministry is given as the source (which is the organizer of the election afterall), then NUPES should be listed with 131 seats at least until the parliamentary groups are formed. If those extra 11 representatives sit with them, then give those seats to NUPES then but until no basis other than the biased LeMonde. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.136.246 (talk) 03:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Results by constituency table

I'd like to propose the removal of the Results by constituency table.

1. There is a separate article dealing with the matter: Results of the 2022 French legislative election by constituency
2. The current table is unsourced. Properly referencing the article will be quite difficult, because documents like Liste des élus (par ordre alphabétique) contain no consistency or party.
3. The current version contains clear errors especially in the party column. Correcting those errors will be a tedious and lengthy effort.
4. The inclusion of the table bloats the overall article.

KittenKlub (talk) 12:34, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support A separate article already exists, there is no need to include that large table here. Vacant0 (talk) 12:36, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
•  Comment: I think it is fine to have it by party here, as is done for Overseas France at Results of the 2022 French legislative election by constituency; however, it needs to be sourced and accurate, or at least have a few notes to mention any controversy. If it is possible, we should at least give it a try, and if not, there is the other article to use for. As for bloating issues, every such table with election results should have its own template to copy and past. Davide King (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Davide King: The controversy seems to be about the unsourced party affliation. This edit [3] reverted what I thought was a typing error in a name which I had corrected earlier. As you can see, many party affliations which had been corrected were reverted again. Loïc Dombreval should be La République En Marche!. Claire Bouchet ought to be Radical Party (France). Kougelhof corrected some entries and the correction seems to be correct. Yet Pochet01 prefers to engage in edit wars and not explain why the party affliations are different. Even we keep the table, the referencing remains a concern, because everything including party affliations should be properly referenced. KittenKlub (talk) 15:10, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

This story is no longer relevant. Davide King did an excellent job checking 2x577 names (!!) and the disruptor which had created the table with errors has been globally banned for sockpuppeting.KittenKlub (talk) 18:35, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support There is a separate article. We shouldn't have a large table here and a separate article. What's the problem of leaving this in the separate article? Bondegezou (talk) 21:54, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Plural or singular?

It seems to me that it would be better to put the title of the articles on the legislative elections in the plural: "[Year] French legislative elections", because several people are elected (there is one election per seat/constituency, so 577 for the whole France). Hérisson grognon (talk) 19:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support, see the 2022 United States House of Representatives elections and 2022 United States Senate elections pages. All those are in plural. GoodDay (talk) 20:19, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Those are the ones that need changing to meet the guideline, not this one. Number 57 17:42, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
    • Was it attempted before? If so, why was it reverted?--Aréat (talk) 12:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
      • I don't know if there was ever an RM, but I do recall a very painful discussion with some American editors, who came up with a series of increasingly spurious reasons why American elections have to be plural (first it was because they take place in multiple constituencies (which of course, most elections do), then it was because the US has a federal system (why this means it's plural, I have no idea)... Number 57 13:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose This is contrary to WP:NCGAL, the naming convention for elections. The only time "elections" should be used is when there are elections to multiple bodies (like municipal elections). If the election is to a single body, the singular is correct. Number 57 23:17, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose, per Number 57. Mathglot (talk) 00:09, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Comment French usage (both governmental and in major newspapers) is overwhelmingly to mention legislative elections using plural. For example: government, government agency, national assembly, franceinfo, sunday journal (jdd), le monde, la croix. For Google search results, singular (« Élection législative française de 2022 ») gives 1.3M results while plural (« Élections législatives françaises de 2022 ») gives 6.4M results. The french article title uses plural as well: fr:Élections législatives françaises de 2022. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 17:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

This is irrelevant to English Wikipedia though. Number 57 17:31, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose : French usage, as in the language usage, not just the french authority one, is to use plural when several people are elected, like in legislatives elections, and singular when only one is, like in the presidential election. In the latter, it's not unusual for someone to make the mistake of using plural because there's two rounds, but that's a mistake which isn't made by good sources nor used on the french wiki.
  All this only matter for the french wiki, though. The usage of the french language doesn't apply on this wiki.--Aréat (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose, it is one two-round election. Noting that it's plural in French, the correct English use is singular Newystats (talk) 21:01, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as per WP:NCELECT: 'For an article covering multiple elections to bodies or positions of the same type, use the format "[date] [country name or adjectival form] [type] elections"'. The election of each person in each constituency is just a minor part of the larger election to a single parliamentary body. Impru20^talk 13:02, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Should we create a page for 2027 elections already?

There have been several polls already for the next election, but there's still no page for it. Should we make it now, or wait a few years? PorazonyCreeper (talk) 15:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm happy for that page to be created. Bellowhead678 (talk) 14:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

OK, guess I'll do it then. I have entire source code prepared already, so it should be an easy task. PorazonyCreeper (talk) 14:47, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2027_French_legislative_election PorazonyCreeper (talk) 14:51, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

New legislative infobox - Part 2

I open this thread because I agree with Frenchpolit's doubts: when was it decided to replace the Election infobox with the Legislative Election infobox for the French elections? It was much better before, this infobox is totally unsuitable for a two-round electoral system! In the absence of consensus, the previous long established version should be restored, which reported the results in a very clear manner. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 21:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Strongly disagree that it was "better before" or that the previous infobox was 'very clear'. It was far too large and featured huge and entirely pointless images of party leaders (this is an election for parties, not individuals). The current version is far more succinct deapite listing more parties.

Also, you really need to respect canvassing rules. You can't just ping one editor you agree with from an earlier discussion – you should have also pinged User:ValenciaThunderbolt. Number 57 22:26, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

The legislative infobox should be adopted for all legislative elections, thus I support its use also here. --Checco (talk) 13:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

@Number 57 and Checco: It seems to me that you support the use of the legislative infobox regardless of the final result. The election infobox is suitable for any type of election, while the legislative infobox is meant only for those elections with a large number of parties winning seats. The technical limits of this infobox are evident when electoral systems are more complicated than a simple proportional system: in this case it completely excludes the results of the second round, which is decisive for the allocation of seats!! Until there is a clear consensus for this type of infobox, indeed the previous one should be reinstated, the long established version was boldly modified without any prior discussion.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

The current infobox does not exclude the results of the second round, because the seat totals are the result of the second round. If you are concerned that only having the first round percentages is misleading, the percentage column can be hidden. And large numbers of parties win seats in elections in France – 16 in 2017, 14 in 2012 and 12 in 2002 (the actual totals are higher because multiple parties are groups into the DVD/DVG category). Also, no need to ping me, I have this page on my watchlist. Number 57 19:55, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Removing the first round percentages would certainly make the infobox less misleading, although I still prefer the election infobox for these elections, because I believe the infobox should always contain the election results. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 09:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

On the contrary, I think that, in a legislative election, having leaders in the infobox is quite misleading. --Checco (talk) 19:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Restore older Map

If no one is opposed I think I'll restore the older maps for the Legislative elections the follow the same example as 2012, 2017, and 2007 once I finish those. Frankly they're much more pretty, detailed, and informative :) Talleyrand6 (talk) 22:38, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I would prefer to keep the current map – I think the more detailed one is too crammed with information that is impossible to read at the scale it is displayed in the infobox. Number 57 12:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

unfortunately I think you issue is with the fact French elections are complicated either way. The 2017, 2012 elections have detailed maps without any issue. So too do almost every other recent big European legislative election. I feel as if there's enough precedent to reintroduce the original maps from this page Talleyrand6 (talk) 22:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)