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→‎RD: Kabosu (Doge dog): adjust target article
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*:Splitting out into [[Kabosu (dog)]]. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 08:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
*:Splitting out into [[Kabosu (dog)]]. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 08:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
*:: Adjusted target article to [[Kabosu (dog)]] from [[Doge_(meme)#Origin_and_pronunciation]]. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 08:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
*:: Adjusted target article to [[Kabosu (dog)]] from [[Doge_(meme)#Origin_and_pronunciation]]. [[User:Robertsky|– robertsky]] ([[User talk:Robertsky|talk]]) 08:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

:'''Support''' Very notable dog and meme in the internet community, no need to elaborate further. RIP [[User:GodzillamanRor|GodzillamanRor]] ([[User talk:GodzillamanRor|talk]]) 08:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


== May 23 ==
== May 23 ==

Revision as of 08:59, 24 May 2024

Click here to nominate an item for In the news. In the news toolbox
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Will Ashcroft in 2022
Will Ashcroft

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Archives

May 24

May 24, 2024 (2024-05-24) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Kabosu (Doge dog)

Article: Kabosu (dog) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The dog behind the Doge meme. No doubt famous enough but I'm not sure if the target article is problematic for RD because the subject is the meme. There's a section about the dog. Johndavies837 (talk) 07:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Very notable dog and meme in the internet community, no need to elaborate further. RIP GodzillamanRor (talk) 08:59, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 23

May 23, 2024 (2024-05-23) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

May 22

May 22, 2024 (2024-05-22) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Charlie Colin

Article: Charlie Colin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Founding member of Train. 240F:7A:6253:1:9055:DE03:C73E:1FC (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose-the article cited unreliable sources WANGYIFAN2024 (talk) 04:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
':Oppose-As an American musician, there is not enough information about him, and I think it is difficult to consider it a popular topic.Choisieon11:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The popularity of the topic isn't a criterion for RD. It's a biographical article that's not a stub, so if it was in appropriate condition to post, it should be posted at RD. However, as noted above, it's not currently in that condition. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

San Pedro Garza García stage collapse

Article: San Pedro Garza García stage collapse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least nine people are killed and sixty are injured in a stage collapse in San Pedro Garza García, Nuevo León, Mexico (Post)
News source(s): El País
Credits:
Oppose, tragic accident but no lasting notability. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 06:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – There's not much here, and I don't expect expanding the article will bring it to a level worth featuring. It's a tragedy that only really impacts the lives of the people involved directly. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Estreyeria (talk) 15:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose literally just a bad accident and while there were deaths, something that really won't have any long term effects. Type of this were shouldn't be rushing to create articles for much less feature in ITN. Masem (t) 16:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. The Kip (contribs) 20:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: How is this any different than any of the other crowd crushes, stampedes, nightclub fires, etc. that have been posted to ITN?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 21:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Crushes and stampede usually have a lengthy investigation that determines the causes and steps to prevent in future.
      However, unless it's a major fire like the Grenfell building, most single commercial building fires like the nightclub one are not likely going to have a long term impact if coverage, and should not have been posted, much less have a standalone article, until proven otherwise. — Masem (t) 22:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I heard on BBC News that Mexico has started an investigation. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose--I don't think it is necessary to write articles about small-scale accidents.--SU YIQI (talk) 05:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support--I think it is necessary to appropriately select some smaller-scale articles, such as accidents, because the occurrence of accidents serves as a warning and prevention.--Yangpeifu (talk) 05:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the job of Wikipedia in general, or ITN in particular, to provide warnings or prevention. (I find it curious that we have three users giving this as a rationale, which isn't usually brought up at all.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:NEWSEVENT, "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths... – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." See also Singapore Airlines Flight 321 which got much more coverage here but also seems quite routine. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: David Wilkie (swimmer)

Article: David Wilkie (swimmer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Recognition of Palestine by Ireland, Norway and Spain

Consensus to post not likely to develop. Come back on the 28th and try again. -- KTC (talk) 18:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: International recognition of the State of Palestine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The governments of Norway, Ireland, and Spain announce they will recognise the State of Palestine as a sovereign state. In response, Israel recalls several of its ambassadors to these countries. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC News). (The Journal)
Credits:
Taken from Current Events of May 22. Most European countries (especially within the EU) do not recognise Palestine so this is pretty significant. LynxesDesmond 🐈 (talk) 10:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Artificial Intelligence Act

Article: Artificial Intelligence Act (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The European Union passes its Artificial Intelligence Act which will register and restrict AIs with high and unacceptable risk levels. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The European Union passes the Artificial Intelligence Act, to regulate artificial intelligence it regards as being risky
Alternative blurb II: ​ EU approves landmark Artificial Intelligence Act
News source(s): CNBC, DW, Reuters,
Credits:

Article updated

In December, it was agreed to post this when the Act was passed and the Council of Ministers has now done this. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as previously agreed Ion.want.uu (talk) 16:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pull. This has no relevance whatsoever. It's not on the front page of BBC Europe (https://www.bbc.com/news/world/europe), RFE (https://www.rferl.org/), RTE (https://www.rte.ie/news/), FAZ (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/), DW (https://www.dw.com/en/europe/s-1433), nor Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/europe/). This seems like a completely minor event and barely worthy of a blurb. And besides, such a law has no immediate significance anyway like a law on gay marriage or something so prescient. This was a mistake to post. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that maybe some news sources dont emphasize this doesn't mean that it's unimportant, but the fact that basically no news source that I could think of that covers Europe is even announcing it even on the margins of their front page, shows you there is a broad consensus that this is not that prescient and important to emphasize. This event is, essentially, not actually in the news. If anything, it's dwarfed by NVIDIA's earnings report yesterday. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, 'prescient' is the wrong word - I meant 'salient'. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:13, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This hasn't even been mentioned in the EU's Featured News section (https://european-union.europa.eu/news-and-events/news-and-stories_en). This clearly isn't even a big deal to the EU. It does appear on (currently) the third page of "Latest news from EU institutions and bodies" (https://european-union.europa.eu/news-and-events/press-releases_en?page=2) - but when you go to the linked EDPS (European Data Protection Supervisor)'s website, you find it's not even the most important thing to that department: https://www.edps.europa.eu/_en. Basically, it's not even, in any sense relevant to an "In the News" wikipedia section, in the news coming directly from the EU authorities. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Never mind what outside news coverage looks like, our own article doesn't give any indication that there's anything at all significant about this legislation. The fact that the "Reactions" section looks like this tells me that either this is simply not notable on a Main Page level or that our article is severely lacking in explaining why it in fact is. Either way, it should not be in ITN at this stage. I would also disagree with the characterization of the previous discussion as "agree[ment] to post this when the Act was passed" - only one person active in that discussion said we should definitely post it if it passes, two said some version of we should discuss again if it does, and everyone else just vaguely said "wait." -Elmer Clark (talk) 03:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The contents of the article are well established. and as per above.
Hkm5420 (talk) 04:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 21

May 21, 2024 (2024-05-21) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Gordon Bell

Article: Gordon Bell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ars Tech
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

major contributor to early mainframe computer development and established the computer history museum. Death was on 17tg but only announced on 21st. Article missing lots of references. Masem (t) 13:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oppose Your article has a lot of unsubstantiated material and quotes in it, and most of the content in the article is unsourced. CHENG SHIYI (talk) 05:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Paul Parkman

Article: Paul Parkman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American physician who helped develop the rubella vaccine. ForsythiaJo (talk) 00:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Milei-Sánchez diplomatic crisis

Article: Argentina–Spain relations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prime Minister of Spain Pedro Sánchez removes its ambassador from Argentina after a diplomatic crisis with president Javier Milei. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

The dispute itself is almost irrelevant (Sanchez says X about Milei, Milei says Y about Sanchez, and it goes on like that) but it has escalated quickly. Cambalachero (talk) 19:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment what are the precedents for posting diplomatic feuds? IIRC, the Ecuador-Mexico dispute wasn't posted despite the high escalation to breaking into an embassy. Nor was Colombia cutting off from Israel posted, as that was seen as just another page in the Middle Eastern conflict. Those examples also show this is far from the most dramatic news in South American diplomacy this year. Unknown Temptation (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Ecuador-Mexico was posted: [1] Natg 19 (talk) 00:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Natg. In response to Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez's dismissal of his ambassador to Argentina following a dispute with Argentine President Javier Milei, I don't think it rises to the level of larger national relations. Moreover, the person concerned has also stated that he does not want the matter to affect relations between countries. So I think that this element is of relatively low importance.Zhuo1221 (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Opposition. The impact of the incident is not enough, although the replacement of personnel will not escalate to affect international relations.Liangyiqiao2004 (talk) 05:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jan A. P. Kaczmarek

Article: Jan A. P. Kaczmarek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood, Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Polish composer. 240F:7A:6253:1:F9E2:9586:9635:4621 (talk) 16:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sharkey Ward

Article: Sharkey Ward (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

"Rear-Admiral Sandy Woodward said that if Ward had not disobeyed orders, Britain would have lost the Falklands Islands"

— The Times

Andrew🐉(talk) 16:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose .This article does not qualify as WP:ITNQUALITY because he has no confirmation of death from a reliable source and according to the commenters' consensus, the article is not of sufficient quality to be posted on the homepage. Hhhlx (talk) 04:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeThe article is good, but there are too few quotes to support the truth of the articleAYAO32269 (talk) 04:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 20

May 20, 2024 (2024-05-20) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Karl-Heinz Schnellinger

Article: Karl-Heinz Schnellinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Gazzetta dello Sport, Il Post, Die Zeit, Süddeutsche Zeitung, The Times of India
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

A pretty well-known name for Italian and German football fans, he was mainly notable for being one of the few players who featured in four FIFA World Cups, as well as the man who managed to score his only international goal in the so-called "Game of the Century". Oltrepier (talk) 20:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Article is in good shape. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 18:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Democratic Republic of the Congo coup attempt

Article: 2024 Democratic Republic of the Congo coup attempt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A coup d'état by the United Congolese Party was foiled in the Democratic Republic of the Congo resulting in the death of the party's founder and leader Christian Malanga. (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated

Part of the wider recent African coup belt, an attempted coup by the United Congolese Party was foiled, resulting in the party's leader Christian Malanga being killed, as well as American and British mercenaries being detained. Scu ba (talk) 23:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose seems to be been a pretty quick/open-and-shut event of limited scale, likely not resulting in a lot of long-term consequences. The Kip (contribs) 00:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per The Kip, but this does qualify Christian Malanga for an RD at minimum. --Masem (t) 00:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom, per TK above. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this obviously doesn't happen often & is big news nationally, and I am troubled by the idea that "if it didn't succeed, then it's not worth posting" above. Banedon (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this obviously doesn't happen often
    See Coup Belt - this is the 16th attempted coup in the region since 2020. It unfortunately has become rather common. The Kip (contribs) 02:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From that link I can see this is the first attempted coup in Congo, so unless you amend the definition of "coup belt" to include Congo, this is not common. Banedon (talk) 03:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The map, sure, but the article notes that the "Coup Belt" region is commonly defined as both west and central Africa. The Kip (contribs) 03:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article also lists seven countries in the infobox, none of which include Congo. Are you defining "coup belt" to be all countries in Western and Central Africa now, regardless of whether they've had any coups in the past? Banedon (talk) 03:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait on RD I scanned the story for "would", "-wards" and "wever", found one. It's better now (as is a common noun). But the level of tagbombing and plausible misinformation down there could (currently) make a grown historian cry. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And by story, I mean all the crap in Christian Malanga exclusively. An altblurb without that attached might do. No promises, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Banedon. Since we posted 2016 Turkish coup attempt, which also seemed also rather flash-in-the-pan, then it seems like we ought to post this. The DRC/Zaire has had its share of problems over the years, but coups there are rare and this is still a major issue and has been covered internationally. A decent enough article at first glance too.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That was 8 years ago. Just because we posted something similar once doesn't mean we must always do so for ever more. Also, the Turkish one lasted much longer, with more casualties, in more locations, involving more participants etc. etc. -- KTC (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - flash in the pan. A non-successful coup attempt can be significant enough to post, but there's bearly anything here. A guy got a few dozens people with him and attempted an arm intrusion in a couple of places that were quickly foiled, and got killed in the process. The army wasn't with him, the police wasn't with him, ... It was over before people even woke up. -- KTC (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This was so feeble that it seems that it was either a delusional gamble or it was instigated by an agent provocateur to prop up Tshisekedi's shaky regime. As the DRC has had ongoing armed conflict for years, killing thousands and displacing millions, this incident needs more clarity and context. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't understands how this was anymore feeble than Trump's Capitol storming attempt. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait on RD, oppose coup post unfortunately too common in the Western and central African reigons, and the attempted coup happened very briefly. We very rarely post coup attempts and only when they are significant. Move to SNOW close. Ion.want.uu (talk) 18:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    in no way this is a WP:SNOW given there are several support votes and the discussion is still ongoing. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Any coup attempts is notable for ITN as long as the article is in good shape, which it is in this case. I think with the fact that a major party leader in the nation was also killed in the coup attempt also makes it a bit different than the others in my book. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He wasn't a major party leader in the nation, for the most part. He lived in America. The UCP never won a seat, even there. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. Minor attack which fizzled out before posing any serious threat to the government. Most media attention seems to be focussing on the fact that three plotters were dual US citizens, not the implications for the DRC or regional politics. Admittedly there were deaths on both sides, hence only a weak !vote. Modest Genius talk 11:19, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's well organized according to the order of progress. However, one source says incorrect(reference 2), so it needs to be corrected.
Hkm5420 (talk) 04:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ivan Boesky

Article: Ivan Boesky (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The original 1980s Wall Street super villain. "Greed is good." Unusually, I think the article is in fairly decent shape. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Fernando Martínez Castellano

Article: Fernando Martínez Castellano (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Las Provincias
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Coincidentally, I created this article very recently to complete the navbox of mayors of Valencia, having put it off for a while due to a lack of accessible sources. Not a very long article (the man served for a few months then disappeared from public life) but not a stub. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jean-Claude Gaudin

Article: Jean-Claude Gaudin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former mayor of Marseilles. Currently translating parts from French Wikipedia to have a more complete article. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 10:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bishkek riots

Article: 2024 Bishkek riots (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 29 foreign students, mainly from SWANA and South Asia, were injured in riots by an ethnic Kyrgyz mob in the Bishkek capital of Kyrgyzstan. (Post)
News source(s): CBS News, DW, Arab News, RFE/RL, ET,
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for the same reason I opposed posting the mobbing of the plane that arrived in Dagestan, Russia from Israel. I don't think these events meet a notability threshold until people get killed or unless governments support them. And yes, I'd say the same if this happened in the USA or UK. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Unknown Temptation - these appear to be rather limited in scale, impact, and therefore notability. The Kip 20:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I would argue that large scale race riots are a rare and notable occurance with large social and geo-political consequences. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 19

May 19, 2024 (2024-05-19) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: James L. Greenfield

Article: James L. Greenfield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 23:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oppose Your article has a lot of unsubstantiated material and quotes in it, and most of the content in the article is unsourced. WYRRRR (talk) 05:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 PGA Championship

Article: 2024 PGA Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the PGA Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the PGA Championship while setting a major tournament scoring record.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Altblurb if we want to highlight the major scoring record, although I know conventionally we tend to simply state the winner of these events. rawmustard (talk) 13:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support when ready, but Oppose for bad article and lack of organization in it Sharrdx (talk) 16:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article contains too many complex details and table contents, which may only arouse the interest of specific audiences and be difficult to understand.TMXX0818 (talk) 04:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Otto

Article: Jim Otto (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): TimeNew York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs Work.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2023–24 Premier League

Article: 2023–24 Premier League (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Manchester City, the defending champions, win their fourth consecutive Premier League title. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Manchester City win their fourth consecutive Premier League title.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In association football, Manchester City win the Premier League.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In association football, the Premier League season concludes with Manchester City as champions.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Man City win the Premier League.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Alt2 article appears ready to be posted. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Summary section looks like WP:PROSELINE but that'll definitely not prevent this from being posted. There is no update on the final day though; the last update was about Brighton firing their manager, and Aston Villa being better than Manchester United (LOL). Howard the Duck (talk) 09:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready. The article is a bit underwhelming - mostly tables - but the 'summary' section does have enough prose to meet our minimum requirements. However it has not been updated to reflect the final outcome, with only the lead (and table) bothering to explain who won! That should be an easy fix. I've also added alt3, which follows our normal style; note that 'English' is not part of the league's name. Modest Genius talk 12:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There has been little improvement to the article in the last 24 hours, still not ready. Modest Genius talk 11:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt2 when ready As said before article is underwhelming but it's a good nomination. Sharrdx (talk) 13:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Raisi helicopter accident

Proposed image
Article: 2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  In Iran, a helicopter crashes carrying president Ebrahim Raisi and foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A helicopter carrying president Ebrahim Raisi and foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian crashes near Varzaqan in northwestern Iran.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Iran, a helicopter carrying president Ebrahim Raisi, foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, provincial governor-general Malek Rahmati, religious leader Mohammad Ali Ale-Hashem, and 5 other individuals crashes near Varzaqan, killing all on board; Mohammad Mokhber succeeds Raisi as president in an acting capacity.[citation needed]
Alternative blurb III: ​ Mohammad Mokhber becomes the acting[citation needed] president of Iran after a helicopter crash kills president Ebrahim Raisi, foreign minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, and seven others.
News source(s): NYT, AP News, CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominating since, even if they survive, the equivalent story in the U.S. would be notable enough to post. Davey2116 (talk) 14:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

if a helicopter carrying the PM of russia crashed it would be in ITN Lukt64 (talk) 14:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until Raisi's definitive condition is known. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 15:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, so we can have a consensus to post asap. Of course the story (and blurb) should be updated once we have more information, but it is already newsworthy as is. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 15:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a very major news, although the status of the Iranian president isn't confirmed yet GodzillamanRor (talk) 15:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it is currently on headlines Shadow4dark (talk) 15:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support A world leader may have just died, and is at least critically injured. Bremps... 15:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until we really (and officially) know what state the Iranian president is in. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Regardless of the outcome of the crash, reliable sources are reporting a potentially fatal accident involving a world leader has occurred. Would we wait to see if President Biden was reported deceased in a helicopter crash? Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, we would wait if that occurred. ITN is not a breaking news ticker, we want to report the best statement about a story so we wait. — Masem (t) 15:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a very big news story. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This will be notable regardless of the outcome. Johndavies837 (talk) 15:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Doesn't matter whether he dies or not, a plane crashing with a head of state in it is definitely notable enough Abo Yemen✉ 16:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for now, Support if there are confirmed deaths Personisinsterest (talk) 16:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - it's possible it could take a long time for his helicopter to be found under current conditions, meaning that if we wait until we know what state he is in, it could take many hours. The event is still ongoing even if he hasn't yet been found. GreatBritant (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait we need more details, as what people have said above.
TomMasterRealTALK 18:03, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support - For those saying 'once confirmed', I think it'll be too late. Iran has already suspended aerial operation due to the deteriorating weather, and rescue workers are saying that even if they somehow find the alive, the situation there is so bad they will really struggle to take them out.
Also the scale or impact of this crash is, in my opinion, comparatively massive; Iran is already preparing for Mohammad Mokhber to take charge.
Also to those who are saying 'not notable until somebody dies'- Fico isn't dead, then why was his news of being shot was in the blurb? Because he was (or still is) in the corner of the death (secondly, but firstly the incident was a shooting). If we compare, this may be not like that but the severity of this accident is now open and Raisi's whereabout is now totally unknown.
Another thing is, the accident also involved Foreign Minister Amir-Abdollahian and other senior officials, and as Iran is definitely passing a time with large gaps in the administration for a significant amount of time. Last but not least, it's about Iran. As the recent events in the Middleast unfolded, this type of incident is obviously notable and impactful. Zeeshan Y Tariq (talk) 18:06, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Obviously notable" - the bigger issue is that this is still breaking news and information is changing rapidly (re. Grauniad live blog just saying there has been contact with a pilot and a passenger, indicating this is probably not an 100% fatalities crash)... If this just turns out to have been a "hard landing" as was claimed initially, it wont have any lasting impact or notability (since thats not temporary). 2605:B100:D42:8915:E9E1:90FC:668F:7128 (talk) 18:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For your kind information the Red Crescent has said that there is no sign life in the copter.
Also just like I said, if the US President was missing for 1 hour I'm pretty sure it would've been included in the blurb. Raisi was already feared dead, and even no fatalities is caused a helicopter disappearance including the President, FM, Governors of a country like Iran is obviously obviously notable and I still adhere to my point. Zeeshan Y Tariq (talk) 03:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support—It's extremely notable (arguably, it's more notable than the Wagner Group plane crash and we put that in ITN almost immediately); plus, since there are have intergovernmental organizations preparing to provide support to locate the helicopter (or what's left of it), the fact that a head of state was involved in a "hard landing" incident is definitely something be mentioned in the ITN section. - MateoFrayo (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's pretty clear the president is dead, listening to Al-Jazeera - who said they couldn't report this, without further confirmation but it's extremely grim news. Nfitz (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but wait till we have a clearer picture of what's happened. This is Paul (talk) 18:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now as with Fico we do not need to know everything regarding the outcome of an incident to post it. Blurbs can be updated if needed. The crash is the major international news story right now. —LukeSurl t c 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. And altblurb respectfully submitted (if Sunak's chopper were to go down, we'd give the name of nearest village in Surrey; ditto Marine One and the relevant unincorporated town in Nevada). Moscow Mule (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I like the altblurb, but having "Iran" only be all the way at the end might not be optimal. Although I don't see a clean way to have it before without repeating – using the province name East Azerbaijan would be more confusing and/or need Iran to be mentioned again. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 20:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right? Had it been any other province (other than West Azerbaijan, of course)... Maybe gloss him as "Iranian president", to get the reference to the country in sooner? Moscow Mule (talk) 21:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've also now updated the image. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose We need to know whether he's alive. Oppose if he lived. Schierbecker (talk) 22:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Such an event (an helicopter crash involving a current president) is very uncommon. Dead or alive, this is definitely notable. Bedivere (talk) 22:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's been "missing" now for about 18 hours. Even if he's fine, then this is notable. When was the last time a world-leader went missing after an air-crash? Though given the various reports and imagery - he's clearly dead. Nfitz (talk) 22:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no policy basis for not posting just because one aspect of it is unknown. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull The latest BBC bulletin (23:32) says,

    World awaits more information from Iranian authorities (Sebastian Usher)
    The difficulty with reporting on an incident like this in Iran is that we are reliant on information being released by a number of semi-official news agencies.
    Those agencies don’t always speak with exactly the same voice. You will see officials quoted, but quite often those officials will be at odds in what they say.
    What we haven’t had, beyond some general reassurances from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, is a clear statement from the authorities of what they know in black and white.

    In the case of the Prigozhin crash, we waited about a day to post because of similar uncertainty. Per WP:RUMOR, "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation, rumors, or presumptions." Andrew🐉(talk) 22:37, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We didn't post any of the uncertain information, just that the helicopter crashed, which no one actually doubts. The fate of people inside it is unknown, and that's why we haven't included it in the blurb. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 22:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ITN is governed by the policy that says it "serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest." The blurb posting does that. WP:RUMOR is about the article itself, which is not in obvious violation of that guideline. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's half the guidelines for ITN (there is no ITN policy). The other half is article quality, of which an accident where the fates of the passengers are unknown is generally not yet of the quality due to the lack of missing information, even if everything up to date is sourced. Its why we generally wait for some type of finality on various topics before posting them. Even with the nature of one of the passengers being a very high level country official. That's why ITN is repeated stated not to be a news ticker. Masem (t) 00:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I stand by my comment. The line I quoted is the first sentence of WP:ITN and the most important one. The "quality" aspect is in the third paragraph. And the term "news ticker" does not show up at all. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    All three points must be met for posting, not a selective choice. — Masem (t) 01:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I cannot see how this makes logical sense, given the third contention ("news ticker") is not even mentioned in the guideline. As for point two, just because a situation has unknowns does not equate to an article about the situation being low "quality." And the actual guideline says "based on a consensus... using two main criteria," so I'm not sure where the idea that "all three points must be met" is coming from. - Fuzheado | Talk 01:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:RUMOR is about Wikipedia as a whole. See also WP:NOTNEWS which states that "breaking news should not be emphasized". Andrew🐉(talk) 07:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is a very selective quoting of WP:NOTNEWS. That fragment is in the context of "enduring notability of persons and events" and is not general advice about excluding breaking news content simply because it is breaking news. In fact, when you consider the full sentence it reads quite differently and says: "breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information," which changes the meaning quite a bit. - Fuzheado | Talk 11:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with breaking news is that it's likely to be wrong. And that's what happened here. Yesterday, we blurbed nine deaths and today we are blurbing eight. This is not a miracle; it was an error. Per the iron triangle, "Good, fast, cheap. Choose two." Andrew🐉(talk) 08:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that I've tidied up the Hossein Amir-Abdollahian bio in case this is upgraded to a death, for which we would presumably bold that article. There was a whole bunch of uncited info in a list plus an orange tag; I've hidden the uncited content. I suggest that the Ebrahim Raisi bio is good enough should a bold link be required; there are three "citation needed" tags. Again, if there are concerns about that, we could instead hide the uncited content. Schwede66 23:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Presumably if Joe Biden was in an aircraft that crashed, it would be posted (and likely very quickly), regardless of whether or not he survived. I don't see why it should be any different just because this crash relates to the president of another country. Chrisclear (talk) 03:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Death of someone who is/was current head of government is worthy of a blurb. Chrisclear (talk) 06:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now we have CNN reporting no survivors [3], and now is the appropriate time to post. We want until we have a result like this, not questions about the state of the survivors, regardless of country. --Masem (t) 03:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Iranian media is reporting no survivors, though now the Red Crescent has reported that information as well. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it were just Iranian media, we'd likely be a bit caution due to state media issues. CNN reporting what Iranian media are stating is far cleaner for this purpose. Masem (t) 03:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand your concern, Masem. We never questioned the state of survivors; we reported that a helicopter crashed with a president and foreign minister on board. Schwede66 03:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are capable of communicating uncertainty in blurbs, as are the reliable sources that ITN theoretically tracks with. Moreover, there's no criterion in WP:ITNSIGNIF that says all questions need to be answered before a blurb is posted. I would love if people at ITN could stop making up their own personal criteria (unique to each person!) and instead either go by the written standards, make a proposal to change them, and/or accept that IAR is a thing that applies to ITN like every other area of the project. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We've had unspoken standards that have been challenged by newer editors to the ITNR process not by proposed changes but aspects like this. Our basis in the past is to wait until we have a firm understanding from RSes about a topic, and not when the primary issue at play was still hanginig in the air for a short period. — Masem (t) 12:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the standard you'd like to see, please propose adding it to ITNSIGNIF. Otherwise, it's not something ITN is bound by.
Also, per Schwede66 we did have a "firm understanding" of the topic here: a helicopter carrying a sitting president crashed. That is a story in and of itself. That we didn't know if that president was dead doesn't mean we didn't have enough to post. Same goes for posting Titan (submersible) before we knew if there were survivors, or for posting the attempted Wagner Group coup while it was in motion. Ed [talk] [OMT] 15:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a very big news story.Iranian President Raisi has been confirmed dead. There are not many photos from the scene, and rescuers have said that some bodies are so badly burned they are unrecognizable. However, this is also strange—three helicopters were flying, but only this one crashed. If the weather was so bad, who insisted on taking off? Kikolipu (talk) 04:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RD and succession
We might want to discuss an appropriate blurb first. Schwede66 03:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've been keeping an eye on this, anticipating that this would become a death blurb. But we do not yet have a formal announcement stating definitively that Raisi is dead. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the death is confirmed, it seems by ITN/R we would also need to mention that Muhammad Mukhbar (or whomever Khamenei would appoint) is now the acting president. Also, I wonder if the other two wiki-notable people on board (Malek Rahmati and Mohammad Ali Ale-Hashem) should be included in the blurb, or do they just go in RD; I'd lean towards including them in the blurb. Davey2116 (talk) 04:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For all of those reasons, and particularly the absence of a formal statement that they are dead, we need to have a discussion here, rather than an admin just amending the blurb. Schwede66 04:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I note that the Muhammad Mukhbar article was moved a few hours ago, and I suspect that will be undone. It needs the eyes of those who speak Persian and know their way around naming conventions. Schwede66 04:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This would not be a blurb if the only people on board were the other two, and we have limited space with a lot else to cover, so I would lean against mentioning them. Sdkb talk 04:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once an official announcement is made, I think that both the president and foreign minister should be mentioned in the blurb along with whoever assumes the position of acting president. Alas, I probably will not be the one to update the blurb as it is after midnight here and I need to get some sleep. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're not allowed to go to bed until Wikipedia is finished! Sdkb talk 04:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Iranian state media Mehr News says all aboard are dead. Reuters has quoted Mehr News and an Iranian government official. Jusdafax (talk) 04:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 3- Best worded blurb at this time. Jusdafax (talk) 05:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that "acting president" is an unreferenced statement. From what I've seen, it is expected that he will be acting president. Without a reliable source, this cannot be posted. Schwede66 05:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The NYT has reported that "Iranian law stipulates that if the president dies, power is transferred to the first vice president and an election must be called within six months. The first vice president is Mohammad Mokhber, a conservative politician." But, that isn't the same thing as a formal transfer of power. Ed [talk] [OMT] 05:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      That may be so. But the acting part is still unreferenced in the target article. Schwede66 07:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • comment about the "acting part", aljazeera now says [4] "Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has confirmed First Vice President Mohammad Mokhber as the country’s acting president".46.222.205.14 (talk) 10:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment President of Iran is NOT an ITNR position (that's the Supreme Leader). So we don't need to worry about the succession issue, only the accident and deaths. --Masem (t) 11:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not correct. The president of Iran IS an ITNR position. WP:In the news/Recurring items#Elections and heads of state and government says that "Changes in the holder of the office which administers the executive of their respective state/government" going on to note that these positions are listed at List of current heads of state and government. Not only is the President of Iran listed as Head of government, so is the First Vice President, the Chief Justice, and the Speaker of Parliament (someone might want to review the two non-presidential government heads after the vice-president). This is similar to the UK where the Prime Minister is listed, along with the King, and some other Commonwealth nations, where the Governor General is listed along with King and PM. Nfitz (talk) 20:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The holder of the officer that administers the executive branch in Iran is the Supreme Leader. "Unlike the executive in other countries, the president of Iran does not have full control over the government, which is ultimately under the direct control of the Supreme Leader." per our article on the office. That's why the Supreme Leader is marked in green, they're the key control of the country and whom ITNR recognizes. Masem (t) 01:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He's the "key control" (head of state). They're the "triumvirate" (three-headed head of government). Above them all is God. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The president does not have full control of the executive, that is the Supreme Leader. The president is someone picked by the Supreme Leader to run the country under the S.L.'s directives (Raisi was considered to be next in line to be S.L. due to the current's age). So while the president may be the "head of state", they are not the person that "adminsters the executive" of Iran's government. — Masem (t) 12:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khameini, is the head of state. He is also one man, as opposed to them, the three heads of government. Mixing up pronouns isn't that bad, but now you've got the roles reversed, too. The head of state, as in Canada, doesn't touch the executive branch of the government. That's First Vice President Mohammad Mukhbar's job now. If we want to follow the standard ITNR rule, that means noting the change in executive administration to him from Raisi. When Khameini dies and is replaced, it won't be an ITNR deal. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We have (best that I can recall) always gone by considering only those cells that are in green on the list of leaders as the ones that meet the ITNR criteria for changes of the the exec office holder, as those are considered the most powerful position in that govt. Those in white or blue do not meet ITNR, though could still be considered a ITNC. Masem (t) 15:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's foolish to believe in a colour code not based on any reliable source when you have Government of Iran#Executive telling you in plain English that you're mistaken. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    From President of Iran "Unlike the executive in other countries, the president of Iran does not have full control over the government, which is ultimately under the direct control of the Supreme Leader." from Government of Iran "He is the highest nominally popularly elected official in Iran, although he answers to the Supreme Leader of Iran, who functions as the country's head of state.]]". President is primarily a symbolic position, the Supreme Leader holds the executive power. Masem (t) 16:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know why you think we're arguing about who's more powerful overall. We're arguing about who administers the executive. It should have been clear to you from the third word in your first quote, but from Government of Iran#Executive, again: Chapter 9 (Articles 133–142) of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran sets forth the qualifications for presidential candidates and procedures for election, as well as the powers and responsibilities as "functions of the executive". InedibleHulk (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "Who's more powerful overall" definitely matters. The Premier of China Li Qiang is the head of government of China, but he has no power compared to Xi Jinping. So I agree with Masem that the president of Iran (head of government), a lesser figure in the politics of Iran compared to the Supreme Leader, is not ITNR. When Khameini dies and is replaced, it won't be an ITNR deal. - this is a grave misunderstanding of the politics of Iran, which is an authoritarian type of government. The purpose of the "green color code" is to define who is de facto in charge of administering the executive, and that person would qualify under the guidelines at ITNR. Natg 19 (talk) 17:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you know of an occasion when Khamenei exercised an executive power instead of or in spite of one of his presidents (beyond choosing them)? If so, that would convince me something de facto is afoot. Till then, I don't think I gravely misunderstand anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [5][6] These news articles say that ultimate power rests in the Supreme Leader, not the president. Natg 19 (talk) 18:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ultimate power over his mortal inferiors and toward foreigners, yes. Executive, legislative and judicial powers, no; he chooses to delegate these. If you ask him, he'll tell you God is his sovereign. God, in turn, despite this conceded higher power, doesn't sweat the mundane daily state or government affairs, just who'll next reign supreme on Earth (or so the Experts have it). InedibleHulk (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am going to suggest we move this to the talk page. Masem (t) 19:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've boldly removed the rest of the Election Commission - I'm not sure if the VP should be shaded blue - it is constitutional isn't it?
  • Comment. Is it possible we can have a break in the discussion now? We've established notability has been met for the crash itself, but perhaps a separate discussion of if the presidential succession is warranted. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably link to death and state funeral like in others like Death and state funeral of Nestor Kirchner.37.252.94.207 (talk) 05:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 18

May 18, 2024 (2024-05-18) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: Frank Ifield

Article: Frank Ifield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian musician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Four {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. And, the last few sentences in the Career section are not related to his career and may be better merged into the Personal life section. --PFHLai (talk) 01:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Koerner

Article: John Koerner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Star Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American blues musician. gobonobo + c 18:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article looks okay to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 04:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Sourcing and article layout look fine. Jusdafax (talk) 04:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tony O'Reilly

Article: Tony O'Reilly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish businessman and international rugby union player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 05:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose a large number of cn tags. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mark Wells

Article: Mark Wells (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NHLDetroit Free Press
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ice Hockey Player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose pop culture and Career statistics sections are unsourced. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:14, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bruce Nordstrom

Article: Bruce Nordstrom (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Seattle Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American billionaire businessman.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Improper external linking in the body along with uncited statements. Bremps... 16:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support one cn tag but otherwise okay article. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you Please take a look now.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Article could use a little more detail about his role at Nordstrom in the first 30 years; has a gap between the 60s and 90s. Some of the statements are a little vague/promotional leaning ("stores began to slowly turn around as the Nordstroms moved the focus back to employees" -- not sure what this means?) SpencerT•C 01:12, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Alice Stewart

Article: Alice Stewart (commentator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

if successful, give credit to HistoryTheorist as it is her logged out due to temporary computer problems 50.47.223.9 (talk) 01:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk

Proposed image
Article: Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury for the unified heavyweight championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Ring of Fire match, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury by split decision to become the first undisputed heavyweight boxing champion in 24 years.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In boxing, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury to become the first undisputed heavyweight champion with the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In boxing, Oleksandr Usyk defeats Tyson Fury to become the first undisputed heavyweight champion in 24 years.
News source(s): Sky Sports Yahoo News
Credits:

For the first time in 25 years Usyk wins the WBA, WBO, WBC and IBF world titles; Shadow4dark (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per above. PrinceofPunjabTALK 15:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Narayanan Vaghul

Article: Narayanan Vaghul (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Business Line (India) Economic Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian banker. RIP. Ktin (talk) 03:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article looks good enough to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted—Bagumba (talk) 16:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 17

May 17, 2024 (2024-05-17) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Bud Anderson

Article: Bud Anderson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Vintage Aviation News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 16:57, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article appears in a good shape. PrinceofPunjabTALK 05:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Fly high, king. Kodiak Blackjack (talk) • (contribs) 03:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
support! Because there are reliable enough sources, but perhaps some more introductions to the medals he received could be added. ZHANG0822ZH (talk) 05:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Pat Buckley (priest)

Article: Pat Buckley (priest) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Catholic bishop.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:43, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article looks ready to me. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 59th Academy of Country Music Awards

WP:NAC
Consensus to post unlikely to develop. BangJan1999 15:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: 59th Academy of Country Music Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At the 59th Academy of Country Music, Lainey Wilson Wins Entertainer of the Year award. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
Heatrave (talk) 13:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose less than 200 words of prose. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 13:46, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Not notable globally and fails ITNR. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 19:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not necessarily !voting in support, but an annual event like an awards show that happens not be listed on ITNR doesn't mean we cannot have it as a valid blurb. Just that one does have to demonstate where the significance of the event on the larger scale should be to post it (such as how The Game Awards have been handled in the last few years, not an assurance). I would agree that the Country Music Awards is far too niche given we already post the Grammys which had its own country music awards. — Masem (t) 21:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose reigonal at best Ion.want.uu (talk) 22:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not that influential awards event and also article is in not a good state. PrinceofPunjabTALK 07:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 Ulu Tiram police station attack

Consensus to post not likely to develop. (non-admin closure) 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 15:41, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Ulu Tiram police station attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An attack on a police station in Johor, Malaysia by a suspected Jemaah Islamiyah member had left 2 police officers and the perpetrator dead, and 1 officer injured. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, Today
Credits:
A rare attack in this country. Last major activity by/of/on terrorists in the country was in 2015. See Terrorism in Malaysia#War on Terror and Islamic extremism. – robertsky (talk) 09:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above Ion.want.uu (talk) 14:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose it does not look like it will have long term implications. PrinceofPunjabTALK 14:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Attack is not internationally significant enough to warrant an ITN post. Tofusaurus (talk) 15:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:

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