Talk:Johnny Cash

Incostencies with his death

That box on the right said he died at the age of 71. The article said that he was 73.

Which is correct, anyway?

he ded at the age of 73 ............
           he died because of a broken heart

Coincidence

Just realized something today... Cash's song "I've Been Everywhere" was featured in the opening of the remake of Flight of The Phoenix... while Cash was played by Joaquin Phoenix in the movie... does this qualify as trivia? If so, where would it go? Crisco 1492 20:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Not everywhere, that's for sure. Put it on the page for that song, if there is one. Also, see if the song mentions "Phoenix", and also see if you can recall which TV ad it's used in. Wahkeenah 00:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I did it, it doesn't, and it's Choice Hotels. :) Wahkeenah 18:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Middle name

Johnny Cash was born J.R. Cash he never ever had the name "Ray". He was called "John" when in the Air Force, and became "Johnny" at Sun Records, the commercial name preferred by Sam Philips. (Proprietor of Sun Records)

Thank you,

Les

Sun Records

It is impossible that Johnny Cash could have auditioned for Jack Clement at Sun Records. Cash joined Sun in late 1954, while Clement was hired in 1956.

Hall of Fame typo?

Yes there is a mistake in the bottom of the page, all 3 were inducted into both country and Rock and roll hall of fame. however only Cash and Williams were inducted into Country, Rock and Roll and Song writer hall of fame.

There is a discrepency in the article. The opening paragraph states that Cash is one of three people (the other two stated to be Elvis Presley and Hank Williams Sr.) to have reached both the Country Hall of Fame and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. However, near the bottom of the article, listing his legacy, it is stated that he is one of only two people who was nominated to both halls of fame. Which is correct? Did or did not Hank Williams Sr. become nominated in both halls of fame? Crisco 1492 15:29, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Personal Impact

I was never much of a country western fan. I think mainly because my father listened to it and professed it to be the only "good " music there was.

But inspite of that I seemed to gravitate to Johnny Cash. First, because he was kind of an out law, and then because he didn't just sing about the love lorn and heart broken. And he didn't have that annoying twang to his vocals that seemed to be the pre-requisite of the time to being a country singer. His songs and style where very human, very every man. Johnny Cash was able to transcend the back woods perception of CW music and bring it a newfound respect. He didn't dress in the glitzy rhinestones and patient leather cowboy boots. He was the Man in Black.

As I go through my CD collection, I am amazed at how much of Johnny Cash's work I have collected over the years. It rivals my Led Zeppelin collection and surpasses some of the other artists I have. I didn't realize how much of an influence he had to me until now.

Just like the man himself, he was always there but you just didn't know how much of him was there until he's gone.

Who is Mark Romanek? RickK 07:49, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)

---

There is some discrepancy:
Johnny Cash article says "Boy named Sue" went to #3 and the Boy named Sue article that it went to #2 in the US Pop Charts. ?
Kpjas

• "A Boy Named Sue" was #1 for 5 weeks in 1969 on the Country charts. It was #2 for 3 weeks on the Pop charts. I'll correct this in the Johnny Cash article.Hayford Peirce 21:06, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Is it Elvish or Elvis?

---

That's a lot of good additions that's been made to thea article!

At some point in the 1970s, wasn't there a Johnny Cash novel, supposedly written by him, about Jesus? Maybe called The Man in White? If so, shouldn't this be mentioned? And maybe a little research would turn up who actually wrote it? As a professional writer myself, I'm always a little skeptical of celebrities who have books, particularly novels, published under their names. Hayford Peirce 15:44, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Correct in every detail Hayford. You can still buy it... http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062501356/qid=1092932329/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-1908084-6436422 I don't remember him mentioning it in "Cash", the autobiography. He might well have written it himself, as he fancied himself as a writer and poet.

• Well, that's true, of course. Lotsa singers are also writers of a sort. I remember reading a review of it in the Times, I think, a long time ago, saying that it was actually a pretty good book for what it was supposed to be. Or at least they didn't sneer at it. So if someone else doesn't stick it into the article, either as a comment, or a link, I'll do it later on.... Hayford Peirce 17:43, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Correct in every detail Hayford." -quoth the unsigned user

Hardly. It was published in 1986, not "at some point in the 1970s", and was about the apostle Paul, not Jesus. If Cash "fancied himself as a writer and poet", then what do you, unsigned user, fancy yourself as? A passive-agressive windbag, perhaps? Grammaticus Repairo 03:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

San Quentin jail - video

Does anyone know where I'd be able to get hold of a copy of this on video?

Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings)

Using song titles as headings strikes me as inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. These headings mislead the reader who may be unfamiliar with Johnny Cash. Imagine yourself, having never heard of Cash, reading this article.

Daddy Sang Bass- Did his father sing the bass? The heading leads me to believe that his father was a bass singer and this played a role in his early musical career. "Papa played the Dobro" makes as much sense and Daddy Sang Bass.

Delia's Gone - Who is Delia and what does her leaving have to do with his career in the 1990's?

Looking at other articles with good descriptive headings (Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Frank Sinatra, Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John Coltrane, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, Miles Davis, etc.) shows me that a song or album title is only appropriate when it has particular importance in the career of the musician. Why do these headings deviate so much from other Wikipedia articles about 20th century musicians?

I will wait a few days for more input before I standardize the headings. User:Cacophony 23:57, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your changes do improve the sense of the article. Tiles 03:52, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Baritone?

As a classical baritone, I think it is misleading to have the word baritone in the opening sentence link to the artical for the voice type baritone. Cash is most obviously a bass and the word baritone is being used to describe his voice not name his voice type.

Yes, Baritone

Johnny Cash is not a bass. A low baritone or bass/baritone. He could barely hit a low C. His voice is deep, oaken even, but technically not all that low. Just a lot of undertones and gravel which makes him sound more bassy than most bass voices. Listen to big river. That D3 was the lowest he could get at that age.

On the liner notes of a few CDs I have he is described as a Bass/Baritone. AllanHainey 13:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw an interview with the late Johnny Cash on Larry King Live a few years ago, and when Larry mentioned his bass voice Johnny said, "no, I'm not a bass". Most bios I've read describe his voice as being 'bass/baritone'. I don't think that's correct... Johnny wasn't singing to a D3 in Big River, that was a D2, lower than the E2 that Wikipedia cites as being a bottom note for a bass. Granted, it's silly to cite Wikipedia when complaining about the innacuracies of a Wikipedia article, but Johnny did have a much lower voice than a true baritone. The common misconception seems to be, however, that baritone and bass have mutual meanings. - Timmerbo

Big River was in G, and he slides down from a D3 in the turnaround. When he grew older he played the song in E and was able to fully voice the turnaround. He's a low baritone or bass/baritone, but not a bass.

• He seemed to hit the low notes OK in the song "Daddy Sang Bass". But I wouldn't call him a basso profundo or whatever. I think of that one guy in The Oak Ridge Boys (I think his name is Richard Sterban) as being a true bass. Wahkeenah 01:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

That wasn't Cash, they hired a bass singer to do that.

• You're saying it wasn't Cash singing the line "Daddy sang bass?" Sure it was. Or someone imitating him perfectly. Wahkeenah 13:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It's Cash in the original version he recorded in 1968, the same year Perkins wrote the song, and you can hear it's vocal fry and zero resonance. The best-known version that aired on TV featured one of the Statler Brothers on bass.

English American?

I removed Cash from this category because, as far as I know, none of his grandparents were English citizens (as required by the category). RMoloney 21:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I propose the category White Mutt for those of us white people who don't know what our ancestors were.--Gbleem 22:16, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

The book I read that is suppose with Mr Cash blessing give mix mess. I know he is part scotish, but they say he british descnet . That could mean english, scotish, welsh, irish and than when Cash daugthers were said to be half nergo cash said he was irish, cheekio, scotish I believe if can recall right now.

He's officially a mixed, having some red indian heritage.

82.14.80.235 16:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

^ what the hell?

facts

"I may not be a hawk... But maybe I'm a dove with claws..."

http://www.slipcue.com/music/country/countryartists/cash.html

BTW wasn't he 1/4 Cherokee?

Everyone is a 1/4 cherokee.

Grandfather of Gangsta Rap

Who said he was the Grandfather of gangsta rap? I'm sure I've heard it but google didn't give me anything.--Gbleem 22:11, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Ice T said if you were to compare gangsta rap to any genre of music it would be country because people don't understand the violence unless they have grown up with it like the way that johnny cash aid "he shot a man in reno, just to watch him die" and how it sounds like a crude thing to say but people who grew up country can understand that, same as inner city ghetto youth understand gangsta rap. that's what ice T said.

In the book Ring of Fire: The Johnny Cash Reader, edited by Michael Streissguth, published in the spring of 2002, the editor refers to John as the "the godfather of metal and gangsta rap". The may be how the story originated.

Awards

Is there any reason why only his Grammy awards are listed? He has also recieved several CMA awards, off the top of my head I know he recieved at least two for Hurt the year he died because I remember seeing the award show with Roseanne Cash and John Carter Cash accepting the awards for him.

Cash's CMA awards are now there

In the section entitled "The Man In Black", there is the statement: "Cash also sang a duet with Dylan on Dylan's country album Nashville Skyline, and also wrote the album's Grammy-winning liner notes." There's a Grammy award for LINER NOTES!?! Grammaticus Repairo 17:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, as you can easily check at the Grammy's web page here. The year was 1969. -Stellmach 17:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

OK...now this is just ridiculous...there is not only an award for BEST LINER NOTES and BEST ALBUM COVER, but BEST PACKAGING!?! What little respect I had for the Recording Academy and Grammy Foundation as serious entities is now completely gone! Grammaticus Repairo 22:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

• They need a new award, in the category "Silliest Award". How about "Best Run for Coffee and Donuts"? Wahkeenah 22:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Note that this is the talk page about the Johnny Cash article, not a soapbox for the worthiness of various awards. If you find that page, please take this discussion there. -Stellmach 22:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Jawohl, y'all. Wahkeenah 23:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

broken link to "hurt" video

The link to the video "Hurt" doesn't seem to be working. Is there another site where the video is available? Joyous | Talk 03:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

The song "Send those n-----s back"

This highly racist song has been credited (in various places on the internet) to Cash. I strongly suspect that this credit is erroneous, and wondered if it would be appropriate (if anyone knows for sure) to mention the error of this credit, in order to clear Cash's name, as it were. The song has also been credited to johnny rebel aka david allen coe. halio 12 December 2005

Well, it's not Cash. According to gracenote CDDB, it seems to be the repellent KKK cheerleader, Johnny Rebel (not an alias for allan coe incidentally, who is a literate, if occasionally foulmouthed, songwriter). I don't know if it should be mentioned in the article - it depends how widespread the error is? RMoloney (talk) 02:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

well, the google search '"johnny cash" "ship those niggers back"' throws up 141 results. it also seems that the p2p software limewire includes copies of the song credited to cash. halio

Can anyone find any kind of proof that this song is not by Johnny Cash? It sounds exactly like him...

Either Cash has a hidden racist side or somebody did an imitation and throws an undeserved cloud on his reputation. Either way it is troubling. It would be interesting to do a spectrum anaylsis of his voice and post it here.

According to Johnny Rebel (singer) ([1]) he only has 13 songs, none of them "Send...". Hyacinth 10:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure how we would prove a song is not by Cash except for proving that it is by someone else. Hyacinth 11:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The song is apparently by "Odis Cochran & The Three Bigots". Not Cash, and Not Rebel; it's miscreditted, same as almost every LimeWire download. Travis001

According to an article published in 2001 in XMAG, this song was indeed by Odis Cochran and was released on Arlington, Virginia's Hatenanny label. http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/links/misclink/hitparade.htm

Image copyright infringement?

Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Why does Cash's infobox have an album cover in it and not a publicity photo? (Okay, rhetorical question. We probably don't have a publicity photo.) But the current image's license states:

• images of album or single covers solely to illustrate the album or single in question
• Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement

My understanding is that the image can't be used in certain contexts, mainly like the "This is Johnny Cash" type one it's being used in now. Am I misinterpreting something here or isn't this a possible copyright infringement? Mrtea (talk) 18:08, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

While we're at it, the Trivia section looks to be pulling content, unattributed, straight from newspaper articles... compare it to:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/01/04/entertainment/e151437S74.DTL

http://www.rctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060104/MTCN0501/301040118/1316/MTCN0301

Johnny's broken jaw

I don't see anything about Johnny's broken jaw, which was poorly set and accounts for his bent face. This gave him constant pain throughout his life, and led in some degree to his drug dependencies. 30-12-05 @ 11:05

If you have a verifiable source for that information, please be bold and add it to the article. Jonathunder 16:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

And remember to cite! :) Disinclination 07:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Sweden?

I have a recording of him speaking in some scandinavian language to the audience before singing a song. The title of the track says live from Österåker, which I have ascertained, is in Sweden. Does anyone know anything else about this so we could mention it in the article?--Alhutch 18:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning, hasn't he performed on 100s of different places through his career? Btw, if you want, write a phonetic representation of the Swedish, and I see if I could understand what it means and translate it into English. 惑乱 分からん 18:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

This is a very rough approximation of what he says. "Tak meena vinner. Yoga hopus atnee tikker oomfor muzeek. Yoga hopus atnee tikker oom may. Detta erun song om 'me and bobby mcgee'." That's the best I can do. I suppose you're right, it may not merit mentioning in the article. thanks,--Alhutch 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I think he tries to say something like this: "Tack, mina vänner. Jag hoppas att ni tycker om för musik.(??? This sentence actually sounds quite strange...) Jag hoppas att ni tycker om mig. Detta är en sång om 'Me and Bobby McGee'." which translates to something like "Thank you, my friends. I hope that you like my kind of music. I hope that you like me. This is a song about 'Me and Bobby McGee'" The strange grammatical syntax in the second sentence, and that it's not particularly complex makes it sound like something he just picked up for the concert. Anyway, hope this helps. 惑乱 分からん 23:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

That sounds exactly right. He was speaking sort of haltingly and in the middle it sounded like he asked someone "how am i doin'". Anyways, thanks for the translation.--Alhutch 00:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I could have guessed it. Alright, you're welcome. 惑乱 分からん 02:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

timeline of his life

There's something wrong with the timeline. Right now we have:

"His longtime guitarist, Luther Perkins, died in a house fire in August 1968. Less than two months later, the home of his next door neighbor and close friend, Roy Orbison, burned down ... Cash was profoundly affected by these incidents, and he attempted to take the first steps on a long, hard road to recovery. He locked himself in his home and underwent detox, relying heavily on his friends, and especially Carter and her parents, Ezra and Maybelle. He and Carter were married soon after." And we have:

"Cash proposed onstage to Carter at a concert at the London Gardens in London, Ontario on February 22, 1968; the couple married a week later in Franklin, Kentucky."

When did they marry? --84.61.27.187 00:05, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

EDIT. Okay. They married in March 1st. I think the first paragraph you listed must have an incorrect date (or could be following the movie timeline, Walk The Line) and should list possibly 1967 as the death of the bandmate. That would put sufficiant time between him dying, John detoxing, and then propsing to June. If they married a week later on February 22, that would put it on March 1st, as per the official website. Disinclination 07:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

American V?

Although the article says "American V, his final album, was released posthumously." I cannot find any reference to this album on Amazon, P2P searches, or anywhere else for that matter. Does this album even exist?

That should be American IV, someone just made a typo.--Dp462090 02:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Except American IV was released well before his death, so it's even less accurate. Someone edit this to conform to reality?

Ok, but where in the article is it(the section)...--Dp462090 01:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind anything else I've said; American V, is a new album coming out in 2006, but the statement seems to be gone now.--Dp462090 | Talk | Contrib | 02:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

American V: A Hundred Highways will be released on July 4, 2006 Odin's Beard 02:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

fanboy

i love johnny cash but does anyone notice that this article doesn't really contain any genuine criticism or deep analysis of the man his music or his legacy. Most of what doesn't portray him in a positive light is the same kinda stuff that people still use to glorify him as an outlaw or some one with a checkered past. I think our understanding of him would benefit from some real criticism or just counterpoints to some of what is in the article. Cesar.vialpando 02:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

That could be good, but we have to use a NPOV about the whole thing; aswell as sources for criticisms.--Dp462090 00:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Highway 61 Revisited

I recall Johnny Cash giving a spine-chilling reading of the first verse of "Highway 61 Revisited" ("God said to Abraham, kill me a son") in an intro to a movie. Sadly, the movie was shite. But that reading was intense! Any info? --Davecampbell 11:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

GIYF - I found the movie, it's The Hunted. --Davecampbell 01:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Quote Sources

Will someone find the sources for the quotes on the page?

[2] These seem to be the source, but the quotes are attributed(i.e. are said to be quotes of Johnny, but not known to have been said) to Johnny Cash, so there should be a mention of that or they should be removed.--Dp462090 23:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Full name?

Is there a source for the opening statemtnt that his name is "John Ray Cash"? I thought the "R" was just an initial. Joyous | Talk 13:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the "R" is just an initial, thats according to the thirteen page introduction of the "Cash: the Legend" cd box set written by Patrick Carr. - user: SlowTrainComin'

• It's just like the "S" in Harry S. Truman, in that it might symbolically stand for a family member, but factually it's just the initial and nothing else. In Johnny's case, his birth name was just plain J.R. Cash. He adopted "John" as his first name to avoid hassles in the military. The "R" might have symbolically stood for "Ray", his father's name, but I don't know that Johnny ever adopted that as part of his stage name, especially given his uneasy relationship with his father. In his autobiography, he calls himself "John R. Cash" and I think goes into some detail about the oddities of his name. Wahkeenah 01:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Johnny was simply referred to as J.R. during most of his early life including his childhood and into early adulthood. The idea for calling him Johnny, rather than John, was Sam Philips' idea because Johnny sounded younger than just simply "John". At first, he actually hated being called Johnny. As far as I know, and I'm pretty sure I've heard this from his own mouth during interview footage, that the "R" was just an initial and didn't stand for anything. Odin's Beard 02:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Divorce from Vivian Liberto

The article states that he married Liberto in 1955, and then proposed and married June Carter in 1968. Any verified date for his divorce from Liberto?

Sometime in 1966: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0143602/bioDp462090 17:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Walk the Line

The greatest movie ever. Enough said. Amaas120 06:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, but that has nothing to to with the article, and isn't a NPOV.--Dp462090 21:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Marriage with Vivian Liberto

This page contradicts Vivian's page. One says they were married after Johnny's service was complete, the other says he was still in the service. I dunno which is correct, or I would fix it. --68.49.47.119 12:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to this "On July 3, 1954 Cash was discharged from the Air Force. On August 7, 1954 he married Vivian Liberto...", but I'm not sure whether to trust that source, or not.--Dp462090 22:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Too much trivia?

The trivia list is just about as long as the main article. Anyone want to work on a collaborative cleanout? Joyous | Talk 14:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

In a related issue, "sanctimonious cloud" is not neutral and is a bit offensive to Christians. User:216.91.36.42 20:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

• Especially to ones like yourself, hiding behind an IP address. However, I concur that it is an editorial comment. It would be fairer to say that religion became very important to him, even ferverous, as he worked out divorcing himself from his personal demons, especially substance abuse. Wahkeenah 06:02, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Looking through the "trivia", a fair chunk of it restates info already covered in the article. When I get the chance, I'll see what I can do about that. Also, some of this could be regrouped under "Collaborations" or some such. Hopefully a little consolidating and regrouping will make the trivia section a lot smaller. Wahkeenah 06:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if we had less "Hey some band no one has ever heard of mentioned Johnny Cash in one of their songs!" under the trivia section. --Pathogen 22:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• A couple of months ago, I tried to separate "trivia" from "tributes". Looks like I need to take another look. Wahkeenah 22:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Stop Taking Away The Website

I don't know who it is but everytime anyone puts on a new website about Cash the next day it is gone! So why can't we have alot of website like we did a few weeks ago? - Alakey2010 April 24, 2006 | 7:24 PM

Well, you could check the the history, but you can't just add any site, it has to have a real purpose, it can't be just some fan site(not to say what was put there was a fan site, I really have no ieda).

It's all covered pretty clearly by Wiki policy WP:EL. Basically no fansites, spamsites etc. Some fansites are allowed to be used as support citations for actual content. Or if they are clearly authorized by the article subject or artist label, family estate and so on. Hope that helps. Take Care. Anger22 00:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Drug addiction

Cut from article:

He started it because some people gave it to him.

Who says that's the reason? This sentence removes all personal responsibility from him. "They MADE me do it?"

His decision to take addictive drugs was his own choice, I think. If he didn't know the consequences, let's describe the evidence of his ignorance. Maybe he didn't know about the concept of addiction or that the specific pills he was offered might "hook" him. --Uncle Ed 11:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

• One item on my to-do list is to re-read his 1997 autobio and fill in some of these gaps. He makes no "look what they made me do arguments" for anything. He was, or became, a man of brutal honesty about himself. As I recall, in general he started to take amphetamines to "keep him going" while on tour. Although he doesn't say this, that also happened to Judy Garland and probably many other performers. In Judy's case it was ultimately fatal. It almost was for Cash, but he found a way out, thanks to friends and faith. He made the analogy with alcoholism: You start drinking from the bottle, and eventually it drinks from you. His occasional relapses, especially after the bizarre incident with the ostrich, was because of painkillers he was administered, which he states as fact without offering it as an excuse. Wahkeenah 11:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Wahkeenah, I rather thought it was something like that. Like many Americans, I look up to Johnny Cash as a hero. Others have made mistakes and become bitter or vengeful hypocrites. Cash took the moral high road of personal responsibility and did the excruciatingly painful work of self-reformation. That's an example everyone needs to know about! --Uncle Ed 12:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Drastic revert

I am going to revert this article to before the massive "biography" delegation that User:Lincalinca. I am going to do so because he did not seem to do much discussion before taking his action. I like his idea of delegating some of the long lists, like all of the awards, but there is no easy way to separate out the musical importance of Cash from his celebrity, personality and family life. Really, the canonical page should be the "biography" and the long lists of awards and such can be delegated, just as the discography has been. -- 64.175.42.87 15:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

How to improve article quality

You know, the encyclopedia should really foucs on prose. Obviously, we want to establish the importance of Johnny Cash, but these long lists of collaborations, awards, trivia, music videos and even the list list of the extended family does not really focus on Cash himself and are not very readable. A few prose statements in the main article and the massive discography (already delegated) establish his importance. I almost want to create a "Johnny Cash lists" page or a "Johnny Cash data" page so that we can gets these lists out of way and focus on the prose of the main article. You know - the stuff that somebody would want to read from start to finish. What I really need is the correct name of the "Johnny Cash lists" article. Any ideas? -- 64.175.42.87 15:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not getting any objections to just using the suffix "lists". Really, when you normally read an encyclopedic biography, it is still the prose text that matters. I am going to delegate all the list-oriented sections (including the trivia and the long list of relatives) to a separate "lists" page and see if people flip. I note that NNDB/Rotten.com tends to put the "list" on the NNDB page, but their emphasis is slightly different. You could argue that we might benefit from a "Johnny Cash timeline" page as well, again to free up the prose of the main page from having to constantly cite dates. I know that some music fanatics think that Johnny Cash equals his music, but we already had to delegate out the lengthy discography. -- 64.175.42.87 23:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, folks. How is that? Now, that is a real biography that somebody could imagine reading from start to finish, without having to plow through a bunch of lists. -- 64.175.42.87 23:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Is the sample obsolete?

YouTube has the video. Is the sample for the partial audio of "I Walk the Line" obsolete? I will leave it as is for now, but just a thought... - 64.175.42.87 01:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree

I've created a Carter Cash familytree template, which I'll include here, leaving for others to decide if and how to include it in the article.

I added it to Johnny Cash lists where the rest of the family data is. I think it is unfortunate that it ends up having all that extra whitespace on the right-hand side. -- 67.116.253.187 18:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I was planning on adding Johnny's side of the family as well. Of course, as always, anyone is free to do so.

The movie is getting on my nerves

When I look at all of the Cash-associated pages, it is difficult to avoid references to that movie. Uh, as far as I am concerned, the movie is just a movie and it may have occasionally taken artistic licence. I do not consider it to be a very reliable source of information. Let us try to avoid having this movie infest all the text. It does have its own page, after all. -- 67.116.253.187 23:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Original Research

Kudos to whomever cleared up the Songwriters Hall of Fame vs. Nashville Songwriters' Hall of Fame thing, but a phonecall to the former is not a published source. However, the Songwriters Hall of Fame is online (i.e. published) and has a list of inductee exhibits. I don't see any reason to regard that as not definitive and complete, and Cash is not there. --Stellmach 17:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Build the album pages

User:Cromag and I recently revamped Johnny Cash discography and started album pages for most of Cash's catalog. If Johnny Cash is getting too crowded, then add album and song specific info to the relevant album pages. I think that is a more natural fix than spining off information to Johnny Cash - Biography or Johnny Cash lists.

Fair use images disputed

I have tagged a number of the images on this page as fair use disputed - largely because they fail to provide fair use rationales. Please bear in mind that unless the image comes from an official source (electronic press kit ideally), the use of the promo tag is not really acceptable. Megapixie 13:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I Walk the Line and Cocaine

Hi everyone,

EvaBallering (talk • contribs) is trying to state over at I Walk the Line that

is about the cocaine addiction that Cash developed, which becomes apparent through the lines "I keep a close watch on this heart of mine" and "I keep my eyes wide open all the time".

Is that a commonly held view or one supported by Cash's self-admission in any past interviews? --  Netsnipe  ^(Talk)  07:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Cash was addicted to pills, not cocaine. He covered a song called "Cocaine Blues", so that writer probably is a little confused. Wahkeenah 12:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• I hope we can't take "Cocaine Blues" as authoritative, because if it is, that also means he must've shot his woman down. --Stellmach 14:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Plus, the song that was being quoted was about Johnny being in love with June. :) Not about cocaine. Or about Vivian, if you look on the I Walk The Line songpage here on Wikipedia. To each his or her own.Disinclination 20:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
  • It was about Vivian. It was a major hit and a great song, and it was also, ultimately, wishful thinking on Johnny's part. Wahkeenah 22:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Why People from Tennesee?

Johnny was from Arkansas. Why is he in the TN category? SlapAyoda 09:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

He lived most of his life in TN, despite being born in AK. Where are you 'from'? The place where you were born, or the place you've lived the bulk of your life? Alcuin 09:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It's like Tiny Tim who was born in New York City, but spent his last few years in Minneapolis (where he fit right in with all these hippies here) and is categorized in "People from Minneapolis" and NOT "People from New York City", which shows how bogus those categories are anyway. Wahkeenah 11:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't suppose there's an official policy or at least a general consensus on the usage of the 'People from...' categories, is there? I've been looking around and they seem to be rather inconsistent from article to article. SlapAyoda 13:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"From" is too vague. "Born in" and "Resident of" would be much clearer. Now all someone has to do is modify a few thousand articles to fix that problem. Wahkeenah 22:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

But he was raised in Arkansas. I think where a person is raised and orginally from is pretty important. 216.98.171.44 23:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

As I said 4 months ago, the category "from"-wherever is poorly defined and poorly used. Wahkeenah 00:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

'Til Kingdom Come

Shouldn't something about the song Coldplay wrote for him be included...?

See the collaborations section of Johnny Cash discography Alcuin 13:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The Night Cash Died

I was talking to someone and they said that Johnny was in so much pain and missed his wife June Carter that he loved so much that he took too many of his pain killers just to stop all the pain and go home. When I heard this I thought this was crazy but I got to thinking that June Carter was not there to stop him anymore and well...maybe...he..did? Does anyone think this too? - Alakey2010 10:17 p.m., 19 August 2006 (CDT)

According to the last interview conducted in Time magazine, as well as outside sources, he refused any pain killers- even after undergoing painful jaw surgery. Recording with Rick Rubin & his faith are what helped him deal with all the pain. No other sources to dispute this have surfaced.Rsm99833 03:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, as I recall this dates back to his trip into detox after getting hooked on his painkillers after (strange to say) that ostrich attack. Certainly with a lot of powerful painkillers being contraindicated by his history of addiction, you'd expect it to have excited more attention from somebody if he were even prescribed them. -Stellmach 22:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

"Hurt" a signature song?

Should "Hurt" be considered one of Cash's signature songs? Signature songs are defined as the song(s) that a successful singer is most identified with. While his cover of "Hurt" was certainly very good and all, I'm not sure that that's really a signature song for him. The other songs listed really do seem to be such- that one just jumps out as being out of place to me. Cheers --DarthBinky 21:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Taken from Hurt (song):

Several years later, "Hurt" was covered by Johnny Cash to great critical acclaim; it was Cash's final hit before his death in 2003. Its accompanying video, featuring images from Cash's life up to his final months, was named the best video of the year by the Grammy Awards and Country Music Awards.

I would think so, based on that informationm and a section in the Hurt article as well. He recorded the whole album, I believe, in his own house. I actually think thats in this (Johnny Cash) article. Disinclination 21:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Right, I've already read the info from the Hurt song and all. According to the article I linked about signature songs, what makes the song 'signature' is not necessarily critical acclaim- it's that the artist is strongly identified with that song. I just don't think Hurt is such. I'm not saying Hurt is a bad song- like I said before, I think his version was very good- I just don't think it's what he's identified with. Ring of Fire, Boy Named Sue, Walk The Line, etc- those are good examples of his signature songs, and are, in fact, listed. Cheers --DarthBinky 22:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

He didn't write the song. He also didn't produce, direct, or write the video. I readily identify JC with "Folsom Prison Blues" and "Ring of Fire" are more than "Hurt", even though it's a poingniant song. -- Mikeblas 22:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Even the actual writer of the song says he feels it isn't his song anymore after seeing Johnny's cover of Hurt. Disinclination 05:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Even so, I wouldn't call it a "signature song". To use a couple of unintentionally bad analogies (sorry, it's the wee hours), it was more like a "swan song" or "going out on a high note". Wahkeenah 09:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's a perfect example of a swan song.--DarthBinky 11:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It isn't for Reznor to say whether it's one of Cash's "signature songs," even if that were what he said (which it wasn't). It has to do with whether it's one of the songs that Cash is most closely identified with, which is a matter of public opinion, not personal opinion. Not Reznor's, yours, or mine. Thus, it's not something we can conclude by discussing it here. It should have a citation, like any matter of public opinion in Wikipedia should. Note that the examples in the signature song article are all cited, and rightly so. -Stellmach 11:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It's based on generation. The people who dig into his music or were listening to him in the '50's will identify him with Big River, Cry Cry Cry or Get Rhythm. People who own hit compilations or were around in the '60s would probably name Ring of Fire as his signature song. People in the '70s who watched the Johnny Cash Show know him from TV and might call A Boy Named Sue his signature song, etc. People from this generation might know Hurt best, but that is probably overshadowed by the movie, in which case Folsom Prison will probably be his signature song. If you take signature song in its performance art meaning, then it would be Man in Black. He wrote it about himself, literally as a signature song. This is all arguing over semantics, of course, but naming Hurt as a signature song is a strange choice in the context of his entire career.

Busted?

The song Busted leads to another page with no mention whatsoever of Johnny Cash. Is the page being linked to just uninformative or is the link sloppy and wrong? Did Johnny Cash cover the song from 2001? -- Horkana 05:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Nor do the links Big River, Second Honeymoon, Bad News, Rock Island Line, Flesh and Blood, Allegheny, and Mobile Bay lead any place particularly useful. And several of the other links lead to articles about albums, not their title tracks. So, "sloppy and wrong" would be correct; it needs a lot of cleaning up. This whole thing should also more properly be organized under Johnny Cash discography anyway. -Stellmach 15:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Whew. I moved the entire section over to Johnny Cash discography and removed the unnecessary Wiki links; I also corrected a couple of the latter. It's a gigantic section, so I'm undecided on whether it should actually be anywhere, but on the other hand, it is quite informative and it's useful to have all this info in one place (I myself know that it's hard work checking each of the album pages if one's interested in singles charts; plus, some of Cash's singles were never released on an album). We might not be able to get the article back to featured status just yet, but moving everything to where it belongs will definitely help. In any case, I just wanted to thank the original Wikipedian who inserted the singles list on the page, because it seems quite obvious that it was rather tiring. Cromag 21:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair Use for Song Samples

The fair use rationale for the samples from "I Walk the Line" and "Cocaine Blues" claims that "The sample is being used for commentary on the music recording in question." This is not true, as this is an article about Johnny Cash and not about the songs in question, and actually contains little or no such commentary. I am removing the sample links for this reason. -Stellmach 20:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

125,127-82,000

On the subject of the forest fire, it says: " The federal government sued him and was awarded $125,127. Johnny eventually settled the case and paid $82,000." Which is it?Richbank 00:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not a contradiction. A "settlement" in this context is a negotiated agreement to forego further legal action, and often involves payment of less than the full amount contested. -Stellmach 14:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Dead links

It seems that many of the notes and references in this article are dead links. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.107.0.73 (talk) 03:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Beer

This website claims that also Cash released "A Pub with No Beer". http://www.poparchives.com.au/feature.php?id=545 It says: "The song was suggested to to Tom T. Hall by Johnny Cash who apparently performed the song himself." Is this a studio recording or a live performance? Peeper 09:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Cash never released "A Pub with No Beer" on any of his studio albums and don't recall him performing it live either. If he did, it definitely wasn't released on a live album. Cromag 20:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

On camera

Did he win an MTV VMA? Or just nominated? What year? (I understand he was the oldest ever to do it.) Trekphiler 04:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Rock and roll

I was hesitant about addressing this matter, but I figured my status as a Johnny Cash fan (or at least I consider myself to be one) supports my view that Cash was not only far from a pioneer of rock and roll; he simply never was a rock and roll artist. I've noticed that several sections (and the infobox) in this article state otherwise. Personally, I think that recording songs in the same legendary studio as some of the future rock and roll stars whose career began in the 1950s just isn't enough to consider someone an important figure in the evolution of the genre. One important argument in favor of considering Cash a rock and roll artist is indeed his induction into the genre's hall of fame in 1992, but I can't think of any more, aside from literally a handful of rock and roll songs he recorded (and one of those was a demo). Not sure about the blues category either. In general, I think there's a tendency to give Cash more credit than he deserves (not to disrespect him, of course; I appreciate his important contributions to country and folk music) due to his latter-day American series releases. Cromag 20:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd appreciate it if anyone would be willing to comment on this, 'cause I myself am in favor of cutting back on the rock and roll references. Cromag 18:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The "recording songs in the same legendary studio" bit seems to me like a straw man argument, and not a very productive way to approach the discussion. In any case, if you doubt any particular claim in the article, you are well-advised to call for a citation to back it up, or produce some contrary citation yourself. Failing that we're stuck in the realm of individual opinion about what constitutes "rock and roll," which seems to be a contentious issue. -Stellmach 21:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I won't deny that the term itself is controverial and not very well-defined, but Wikipedia itself provides or mentions a number of guidelines as to what constitutes a rock and roll record, specifically the early variety, which, I'm guessing, is what the article refers to. Elements of early rock and roll that are conspicuously lacking in Cash's musical output include the use of a drum kit (W. S. Holland started touring with Cash in 1960, when Cash was making music that was already quite comfortably outside the boundaries of rock and roll) and piano, which appears very rarely in Cash songs (and almost none of those are even close to the genre in question). No saxophone around, either. Generally, Cash might be considered rockabilly, but rock and roll is saying too much; I'd opt for trading one for the other. Also, as I mentioned before, I respect the decision to induct Cash into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but I myself would be happy to accept other forms of proof, including the titles of tracks which could perhaps be considered typical of the rock and roll genre. Having heard most of Cash's output, I can pretty much safely conclude that "Get Rhythm" is one of the very few songs exhibiting clear rock and roll influences. Can anyone name other tracks, aside from standard like "I Walk the Line"?

I'm planning to take a long WikiBreak in the near future and won't be able to work on the article, but I just wanted to mention that it looks rather poor the way it is now. The blues references are back, the piano has been added as an instrument (which, to me, is suspicious to say the least), superfluous record label pairings have been tossed into the infobox, "That Old Wheel" has been added as a signature song. The biographical info is extensive (perhaps overly so, in fact), but does its job quite well. Nevertheless, the article is clearly susceptible to edits that are not entirely well-informed. I hope that at least the issue at hand can be resolved effectively. Cromag ^{talk to me} 18:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails Cover Song?

Does anyone else notice that it says one of his greatest hits "hurt" is a cover of a nine inch nails song, obviously this is impossible but every time I try to remove it, it gets denied.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Winzlow90 (talk • contribs) 16:54, June 2, 2007 (UTC)

If by "obviously impossible" you mean that it's true, then yes. The song was originally by Nine Inch Nails. See Hurt (song). Also, please sign your comments in the future (with "~~~~"). Adam McMaster 18:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Technically, the song wasn't a big hit (check its top position on the charts). But influential it was. And I agree that your argument's a tad faulty, Winzlow. Cromag 18:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JohnnyCashAmericanRecordings.jpg

Image:JohnnyCashAmericanRecordings.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added a fair use rationale for the use of the image on American Recordings (album) – I suspect the use of it on this page doesn't qualify as fair use, but I'm not sure. Adam McMaster 10:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)