User talk:Zenanarh: Difference between revisions

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Welcome!

Hello, Zenanarh, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! -- Ronz 17:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia! I am glad to see you are interested in discussing a topic. However, as a general rule, talk pages such as Talk:Illyrians are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the topic. Please refrain from doing this in the future. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}} -- Ronz 18:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not use talk pages for general discussion of the topic. They are for discussion related to improving the article. They are not to be used as a forum or chat room. See here for more information. Thank you. -- Ronz 19:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your unsourced edits and reverts

It's one year that I have discussion about some 'typical' nationalistic edits, now you arrive to reopen some deep discussed arguments. Stop this. Forget nationalistic POV, and leaern previous discussion before to enforce POV. Best regards.--Giovanni Giove 15:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's no nationalistic POV from my side, you are manipulating with data and you are ignoring the sources which are not yours (written in Italian of course). Acting like that, you are the one with extremely POV statements. Never mind I will go step by step if it's needed, you can't make Zadar to become an Italian city. By the way it was only 23 years the part of Italy, isn't it? And your important people in Zadar are soldiers? The half of them? Zenanarh 22:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zara WAS an italian city. It's on you to prove it was Croatia.... as it NEVER ws croatian.--Giovanni Giove 20:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HA, HA, Tell him Giovanni! Zadar become 'croatian' when the YUGOSLAV ARMY, consisting of 80% SERBS,-'liberated' that beautiful city in 1945. And since then it was YUGOSLAVIAN city, not croatian. Anyway, I love that city. Cheers!

Zadar has been Croatian for over a thousand years. Further proof you cannot edit Croatian articles, since you know nothing about the country's history. Shameful.--Jesuislafete 23:32, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was Croatian from 10th to 15th century the most of time, it was Venetian from 15th to 18th centura and it was Italian from 1920-1943. No need to prove anything. You are the one who must prove how can Zadar can be more Italian than Croatian. Croats make the majority of population from 10th century until nowadays. The only exception was the period in 20th century when Italians were the majority thanks to the fact that 25% of population were Italian soldiers.Zenanarh 21:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reported

You have been reported to an administrator.--Giovanni Giove 22:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zenanarh, this Giove's message above can be treated as a threat.
He hasn't discussed at all, but after few messages, he childishly (or maybe not) threatens you with the administrator.
That's Giovanni Giove's behaviour pattern. When he can't proove what he wants (he never does , he just says "it's like that!"), than he threatens you with the moderators, admins etc..
I'm just asking myself how long'll admins tolerate him, his behaviour and his propagandist POV contributions and his vandalistic behaviour (deleting of "unwanted" references, ignoring of sources, 3RR...).
So, if you're not the sockpuppet of that user, than, don't be afraid. If you are that user... then, noone can help you. Kubura 03:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HA, HA, HA!!! Sredio te Giovani! Neka te i dokrajci i tebe i sve kao ti na wikipediji! Cheers!

Removed data

Listen, can you make a list of data that Giovanni Giove's removed, at least recent ones?
Like this [1], where he has on the talk page of article Maraschino removed your message.
That message was criticising, not insulting and contained no personal attack.
Also, make a list of links (compared versions) with, if possible, short descriptions what he did.
That way you're enabling to admins to see, in short, what wrong things has he done.
Napravi popis promjena di ti je on minja sadržaj članka ili stranice za razgovor (ostavi poveznicu na uspoređene inačice, tako da se može vidit odmah šta je on minja).
Reci na kojem je to članku/stranici za razgovor članka ili suradnika bilo.
Navedi ukratko šta je učinia pri toj promjeni (budi kratak, jedna rečenica je dosta, imaj na umu da će to administrator čitat, stoga nemoj zamarati admina sa kobasicon od objašnjenja). Kubura 03:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking... his edits are violent, naive and almost all incorrect. Since I know the themacity very well it's quite enough for me to edit correct states in proper context followed with the sources... if his behaviour would be the same I will do what you've proposed me. Thanks. Zenanarh 16:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zadar and Maraschino

You seemed to be having a dispute with Giovanni Giove over issues concerning these two pages. It will be appreciated if you could stop edit warring with him, and solve the dispute on the talk pages of the articles. Please note that my messages on the articles are not an endorsement of the current version, but are a way of stopping the warring. Further 3RR violations on the article may result in full protection of the articles. Particular attention needs to be paid towards the dispute resolution process, and assuming good faith with the other user. Thank you. --Dark Falls ^talk 10:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't waste your energy on reverts, that'll compromize your position.
Read WP:DR (rješavanje sporova).
Give arguments on the talk page, and ask him to answer.
If Giovanni Giove ignores your arguments with his racistic remarks like "Ital. books are OK about history, just like German, French (or whatever) books. Croatian books will reach the same level in few years; it's enough to give to the democracy the proper time to push out all the Nationalistic debrishes of the Communist and Post-communist regimes" , or "Croats deliberately falsify the data about Italian personalities of Dalmatia", than he'll compromize himself.
He calls "Croatian books as nationalistic", and at the same time in Italy they romanticize Mussolini's era, especially fascist Italian rule over occupied territories of Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Albania, Greece, Lybia.
From the same country, Italy, where a political party, that openly calls/declares itself (at least, by their party chief) as "postfascist" (misini, MSI), came to rule???? Fascist revisionists. Where its chief political persons declare territorial aspirations towards the territory of neighbouring countries (Croatia) and deny the history of neighbouring peoples (Croats, Slovenes...). Kubura 20:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC) Kubura 20:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

His editing is more than shameless - he uses this source [2] for editing Zadar article - "Irredentismo" page. Imagine that Germans use "Mein Kampf" for editing the article about the Jews. It would be the same... Is it legal in Wikipedia?Zenanarh 14:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zadar

Would you consider leaving the article on this revision for now? It may not be a ideal revision, but it is an attempt to stop edit warring, without resulting in protection. Bear in mind that this revision will be permanent until the dispute is resolved. If you agree with this, please say so on my talk page. Cheers. --10:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkFalls (talk • contribs) 10:39, 23 June 2007

Drzi se. Nemoj da te taj Dovani isprovocira. Ja cu ti pomoc koliko god mogu.--Jesuislafete 02:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nema frke... Hvala i tebi i Kuburi... da je malo više vremena istjerao bi ga sa Wiki za sva vremena... ovako borba. Problem je što imamo strašne izvore na hrv. jeziku, ali nisu prevedeni i nema ih na netu pa bi moglo potrajati...Zenanarh 22:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ovako. Pobij mu njegove teze svojim materijalima na stranici za razgovor.
Možeš sa poveznicama, sa referencama na knjige, radove...
Na sam članak možeš staviti {{disputed}}, {{original research}}, {{POV}}, ovisno o slučaju u odlomku/članku.
Što ti trebaš napraviti - ukloni jedanput njegove sporne stavke u članku, i kreni sa "paljbom" na razgovoru: zašto si to učinio, jer..., zbog čega si to učinio, jer izvor taj i taj govori tako i tako.
Ako on krene brisati i vraćati na svoj POV, to je njemu otegotna okolnost. Ne spuštaj se na njegovu razinu.
Jednim mijenjanjem (i odlaskom na raspravu, i ne diranjem u članak poslije sve do zaključenja rasprave na razgovoru).
Štogod on sporno napiše, navedi to na razgovornoj stranici i navedi protuargumente. Zatraži neka on odgovori. Ignoriranje mu neće pomoći, štaviše VRRRLO će mu odmoći. Kubura 14:17, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Onda ovako. Ne diraj u članak, ne po sadržaju, ali možeš ostaviti one tagove.
Samo posli navedi na razgovoru zašto si to učinio, odnosno, što smatraš spornim.
U sadržaj članka nemoj dirati, a u dogovoru sa nekim od admina, s kojima si u kontaktu, pitaj može li se zakomentirati članak i "zaključati" ga, dok traje RfC.
Tako da nema spornog sadržaja na vidljivom dijelu, ništa nije obrisano, a argumentiranje može ići na razgovoru. U svakom slučaju, ne upuštaj se u uređivački rat!
Ako on šta obriše, njemu je to otegotna okolnost, to ti ponavljam. Kubura 06:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Next step

We should send a message(s) to Giovanni Giove on his talkpage, regarding his contributions.
We'll ask him there to explain his attitudes in behaviour.
In fact, that's a next step, if discussions on the talk pages give no results.
In sections we have to ask him ALL things we want to ask him.
These aren't personal attacks, these are our requests for explanation.
You had problems with him on the articles of Maraschino and Zadar.
I had problems with him on articles Republic of Dubrovnik and Jakov Mikalja. There'll be more problematic articles, because he pushed his propaganda on a bunch of articles. It's hard to cover all those articles with "arguments against his POV and propaganda".
I saw that some other users had problems with him, like user Markussep, (see User_talk:Giovanni_Giove#Koper.2C_Isonzo with the article Koper.
If he cannot connect something (from Croatian Littoral) with Italy and Italians, than he tries to connect with Serbs, or inserts fictitious things, like Shtokavian language, "Serbocroatian" (centuries before that Frankestein term was coined)... Kubura 18:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here, see this as example [3].
I've sent him the message.
You can also specify all of his problematic behaviour on a certain article, and post him that on his user page (as an other section). You have to follow the procedure.
That message must show where he pushed an information, which you find as untruth/uncorrect/completely wrong/filtered/uncomplete/with double meaning.
Then, the message must show what counterarguments (if possibly, referenced) you and other users posted on the talkpage.
Then, the message must show where he ignored the counterarguments.
For all that, use "difference between revisions". Kubura 09:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Irredentism, expansionism, fascism and revisionism

Zenanarh.
Things are going towards RfC.
Prepare material. RfC is not coming over night, neither in a few days.
It may come in two weeks, a month, three months, whatever.
But, prepare all materials where you disagree with him, where you ask him to explain something.
Today, he AGAIN put a tag "history of Italy" on the Republic of Dubrovnik talkpage.
Such territorial expansionism and historical revisionism cannot be tolerated anymore.
Not to mention his anti-Croat attitude, his "Croathood denialism".
For every Giovanni Giove's line you find disputable, put it on his talkpage (and a copy on your talkpage).
Then he cannot says that he didn't saw it (although he patrols on all Croat Littoral-related articles, so he always sees everything. Like... is that his job?).
And he MUST answer on those questions.
Onda će morat odgovorit, ne izmotavat se. I dobro objasnit i pokrit svoje izjave. I objasnit odakle mu njegovi stavovi. A za onakve šovinističke izjave, da se ticalo nekih drugih naroda, bia bi on davno trajno izbačen sa ovog projekta. Kubura 18:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

His companion in editwarring, Giorgio Orsini, it seems, earned an indefblock.
Trajno blokiranje. Hvala ti Isuse. [4]. Kubura 14:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for un-reverting that guys butchering. I acn't believe these guys have the nerve to just undo all my hard work...

I have warned that "professor". I'm going to the Admins next if he udoes.DIREKTOR

Zadar/Zara

Well, we call it Zara when referring to the medieval city, especially when referring to it in the context of the crusades. "Siege of Zara" is simply the name used in English. Adam Bishop 21:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not denying the different names of the city, I am just saying we call the crusader siege the "Siege of Zara". This is of course because the earlier scholarship on the issue was written while the city was still called Zara, in the 19th and 20th centuries. If you wish, I will check to see if anyone refers to it as the "Siege of Zadar" in more recent publications, but I do not think that is the case. Adam Bishop 01:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with Italy or Croatia or nationalism; the vast majority of English speakers neither know nor care about Zara/Zadar, or even know where it is. For the thirteenth century city and the siege, we just happen to call it Zara. Adam Bishop 20:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again, I just wanted to confirm that it is always called Zara in English sources.

- The Penguin edition of "Joinville and Villehardouin: Chronicles of the Crusades"

- Edgar Holmes McNeal's translation of Robert of Clari's Conquest of COnstantinople

- The Old French original of Geoffrey of Villehardouin has Jadres

- Jonathan Harris' Byzantium and the Crusades has "Zara (Zadar)", but only at its first mention

- The Crusades by Hans Mayer

- Steven Runciman's History of the Crusades

- The Fourth Crusade and the Sack of COnstantinople by Jonathan Phillips

- God's War by Christopher Tyerman

- The New Concise History of the Crusades by Thomas Madden

These are just the ones I have in front of me right now; Tyerman, Madden, Harris and Phillips have all written within the past five years, so there really is no change in recent scholarship. There are numerous other older books about the Fourth Crusade that I have used in the past which also call it Zara (the book by Madden and Donald Queller, for example). Adam Bishop 18:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't fool me, you are Fabrice!

No, actually he's Zenenarh. DIREKTOR 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

oh,excusme.

You are excusmed, my friend...DIREKTOR 19:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LOL Zenanarh 10:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I'm sure your meticulous review of my edits has informed you, I gave up on the Zadar article long ago; dealing with the Balkan nuisance on the English Wikipedia is not worth my time or effort. As I have repeated to you and the rest of Croats who have been pestering me lately, I don't care what you think it should be called. I believe I have thoroughly proven that the 1202 siege is the "Siege of Zara" in English, so there is nothing left for me to do. Adam Bishop 17:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zadar

It looks like Giovanni Giove is once again trying to destroy the NPOV version of the Zadar article (as well as corrupt it with his terrible English). I would appreciate your support since it looks like my efforts to prevent the edit war will not be successful. Regards, DIREKTOR 14:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category "Former Towns of RSK 1991-95"

Can you please check this matter out and cast a vote. The link for the actual category is here and the discussion and voting is taking place here. Thanks. --No.13 07:06, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mediation of Zadar

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Zadar, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible. --Dark Falls ^talk 07:03, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite strange that I wasn't invited there. If not on the article Zadar, I was engaged a lot on the article Jakov Mikalja. Kubura 13:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dalmatian Anti-Riots

Do Not interfere with my edits. I have been objective in these matters since I came on Wikipedia. I rephrased the information without removing the details. If you have a problem with my edits, use the talk page. Use mine if you wish but never revert me, my edits are not saved simply to be reverted by people who like to paint fairy-tale pictures that the war in the Balkans was 100% the fault of Serbs and everyone else was plain innocent. Evlekis 00:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I Will interfere with your edits because you haven't been objective in this matter. Did you use the talk page? The rest is said by you, not me. Zenanarh 16:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That night, you did really anger me. It was the way in which you reverted the whole edit. My only purpose was to be objective. My only purpose is to be fair. If there were one or two parts you did not like, I rather you edited them; where-as I made grammatical changes all in the same edit. I will be using the talk-page and believe me, you may be in for a discussion war of words if you promote a pro-Croatian and anti-Serbian viewpoint, so prepare yourself and start seeking sources, you're going to need them. I'm not a Serb, nor a Serbian sympathiser, but I know propaganda when I read it. Following an exchange of messages with Dr.Gonzo I decided to restore the page back to how you left it. I'm a peaceful individual, but shortly, I will be raising issues on the Talk Page. Evlekis 14:02, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted your edit because of a few changes which were leading to POV. Sorry for grammatics. Don't presume my viewpoints, you don't know it. Can you exactly precise what propaganda? Zenanarh 17:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted.
You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Zadar.

For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 04:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
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@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 I'm just asking myself how long'll admins tolerate him, his behaviour and his propagandist POV contributions and his vandalistic behaviour (deleting of "unwanted" references, ignoring of sources, 3RR...).<br>
 So, if you're not the sockpuppet of that user, than, don't be afraid. If you are that user... then, noone can help you. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] 03:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
+HA, HA, HA!!! Sredio te Giovani! Neka te i dokrajci i tebe i sve kao ti na wikipediji! Cheers!
 == Removed data ==