Talk:Rhodope Mountains

Figures

I am confused here:

• 83% of the mountains are in Bulgaria, so 100%-83%=17% is in Greece.
• 66% of the mountains form the Western part and 34% form the Eastern part. 66%+34%=100%
• 17% of the mountains form the Southern=Greek part. So 66%+33%+17%=117% ?!
• So the Southern part does not exist, because it's artificial and the Greek part lies partly in the Western part and partly in the Eastern part or the term "total area" actual means "total Bulgarian area"

Can someone please give me the right answers?!! I believe the number 83%, but the rest of the figures unfortunaly not. Jeroenvrp 21:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the 83% in Bulgaria are subdivided into a western (66% of 83%) and eastern part (34% of 83%), while Greece has a southern part of the mountains (17% of 100%). So yes, indeed, 66% and 34% are of the Bulgarian area. My mistake ;) Todor→Bozhinov 11:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Problem text

Ok, guys, why don't we start a discussion on this, ey? What exactly is the problem? Whether the name derives from Greek or...? Please, discuss it here. I'll try to help with what I can. --Laveol ^T 10:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

He explained his reverts too late. When he cleared himself, I stopped reverting his edits. And I don't know why I have to cite something obvious - that red, rod, rizh, rufus, razhda have an Indo-European origin. --Gligan (talk) 11:03, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

My argument wasn't about the IE origin. It was about the specific etymology for Rhodope. I have to admit, I've never seen a Thracian derivation for it; that's why I asked for RS. The myth is, of course, well-known and included below. I believe I made that clear from the very beginning but in any case, apologies if I didn't. Good to know that it's all ok. 3rdAlcove (talk) 11:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Gligan, that "red, rufus" et cetera have an Indo-European root may be "obvious" (well, in fact, it isn't, but it happens to be common knowledge among linguists). That some geographical name that happens to begin with "ro-" derives from that root, and through some exotic hardly-attested ancient language at that, is very very very far from obvious indeed. In fact, if the word is related to rhodon ('rose'), then it is not from the 'red' source, because that's in fact an entirely different root. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S., that said, I'm not saying a Thracian derivation wouldn't be plausible. Indeed, I don't see why the Greeks would name a geographical feature after a mythical person. (They normally named eponymous mythical persons after geographical features). Especially where the feature in question wasn't even within the Greek space of settlement. My own hunch is it was probably some local (Thracian or even older) name and the Greek rhod-opē ('rosy-faced') was an early folk-etymological adaptation in Greek that was then projected onto a mythological story. But that's just my own personal speculation. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, it'd be nice if Gligan gave a source arguing for this very interesting etymology. Btw, regarding the mountain range, I seem to recall a certain argument that during autumn, it acquires a 'rosy' colour (can't remember whether it was about the lighting or the vegetation or...), though that might fall under the folk etymology category, as well. ;) 3rdAlcove (talk) 14:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ovid mentions Rhodope and Haemus transformed into mountains at Metamorphoses, book 6, verses 87-89. The Roman poet, not surprisingly, says nothing of etymology. If the mythology needs to be cited, perhaps it is better to cite Ovid rather than the Bulgarian source. Greek authors mention Rhodópē, the mountain or mountain range, as early as the 5th century BC: see Herodotus 6.49 and Thucydides 2.96. Whatever the ultimate origin of the name, a Thracian etymology for the name would require a reliable source. The discussion of the Indo-European root seems to me unnecessary. Aramgar (talk) 19:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, the Bulgarian source added by Gligan cited the exact same passage :). The mythology just had its own section, already. 3rdAlcove (talk) 20:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on languages but I don't like deriving the name Rhodope from Greek and leaving it like that. Either the name has other roots or the mountain should have had a Thracian name that should be included in the section Name. A.kamburov (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)