Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Russia

Russia articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 8 17 29 31 1 86 FL 2 4 6 2 14 FM 90 90 A 2 3 11 10 26 GA 28 39 119 224 2 412 B 217 295 510 731 237 1,990 C 351 610 1,200 2,790 770 5,721 Start 448 1,550 6,516 14,514 1 2,500 25,529 Stub 12 238 4,130 45,355 3 3,631 53,369 List 69 93 407 3,120 36 188 3,913 Category 1 20,841 20,842 Disambig 4 243 247 File 475 475 Portal 25 25 Project 140 140 Redirect 1 513 1,952 2,466 Template 4,259 4,259 NA 1 9 11 21 Other 1 115 116 Assessed 1,137 2,849 12,930 67,305 28,191 7,329 119,741 Unassessed 404 1,481 1,885 Total 1,137 2,849 12,930 67,709 28,191 8,810 121,626 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 476,833 Ω = 5.48

Russian Ground Forces

Russian Ground Forces has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parrot of Doom (talk • contribs)

Assessments heads-up

Just a heads-up to folks who are doing assessments—when assessing/re-assessing articles, please spell out the banner name completely (i.e., use {{WikiProject Russia}}, not {{WPRUSSIA}} or any other shortcuts). The reason for that is the new {{ArticleAlertbotSubscription}} service available to WikiProjects—it watches the articles pertaining to the WikiProjects based on the banner which the articles are tagged with, but, unfortunately, it does not work with the redirects to the main banner. Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:53, February 24, 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts

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Things we can do

Could some of the members of our numerous membership base please comment at Portal talk:Russia/Things you can do regarding how the "what you can do" banner situated at the top of this very page should be treated? Should we just worship it or is anyone planning on actually putting it to some use? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:01, March 30, 2009 (UTC)

Awards in infoboxes

OK, another of my smart ideas (you tell me). If you look at Sergei Krikalyov you will notice in the infobox the Hero of Russia medal. Instead of clicking thru to the image it goes to the article, and the medal name is available by way of "alt text" and by hovering the mouse over the image. This is done by way of Template:Hero of Russia. To see how it looks on ruwiki, where they have been doing this for some time, check out ru:Крикалёв, Сергей Константинович. It looks good, it isn't cluttery, there's no long lists of awards in the infobox, and they appear how they would if they were wearing them on uniform, etc. To implement this here for articles within our scope, there will obviously be quite a few templates to be created, but this is all part of the process I guess. Would there be any support/objections to this format for awards in infoboxes for our articles? Opinions please. --Russavia ^Dialogue 10:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I know it's not constructive criticism, but... I don't like it. It's just too much work to go through each image and read the alt text. Infoboxes are supposed to contain vital condensed information which readers should be able to grasp on the first glance; this format hardly meets this requirement, unless you already know which little icon represents which award.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:31, April 6, 2009 (UTC)

Agree with herr Igels. I did some of these ribbon stunts in ru-wiki and it took more time than the text of an article... and still you need to re-check the appearance of the ribbons on different browsers and different monitor settings... and of course the proper sequence of all. One star says it much better. NVO (talk) 14:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, that's the last idea I'll have for a while I think. Next time I won't say "you tell me" :D --Russavia ^Dialogue 15:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I actually liked the idea to put the awards the same way one puts them on the uniform. Would it be a good idea to create a subpage showing the awards this way with a possible link from the infobox? (Igny (talk) 21:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC))

Exact match is hardly possible as the template is not wide enough to fit five standard ribbons per line (ru-wiki template allows max four). Any wider it will take over the page on narrower screens. NVO (talk) 01:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Please peer review me wicked list

I have listed Ambassador of Russia to Austria for peer review, as I would like to take this to featured list nomination soon, but am looking for outside input on any improvements, etc which may be made to the article/list in order to improve it to give it greater chance of being passed. Please be kind, as this is my first time doing this, and it can be PR'ed at Wikipedia:Peer review/Ambassador of Russia to Austria/archive1. Welcome any input anyone may have. Cheers, --Russavia ^Dialogue 18:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC) P.S. NVO, I took your advice and managed to work out how to make the tables the same width, and they do look a lot better. Thanks for that suggestion. --Russavia ^Dialogue 18:29, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Template:Russian elections

There is edit warring on {{Russian elections}} over the inclusion of Soviet era elections in the RSFSR. As such articles are within the scope of this project, do were require such articles on the template? I think they should be, whether they were a sham or not is not reason to exclude them; being a sham could very well be POV in itself, as I am sure that communists do not regard them as a sham, and that would be covered within the articles. The only thing that I can think of to exclude them would be if there would not be necessary sources in order to build an article from. Although perhaps separating RSFSR from RF elections in the template may be in order? Anyway, what are views of others in the project on matters such as this? --Russavia ^Dialogue 03:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Basketball

There is the page Russian Basketball Super League , and Russian Basketball Super League 2007/2008 . We need the page Russian Basketball Super League 2008/2009 . Help please? (LAz17 (talk) 06:24, 11 April 2009 (UTC)).

Umar Israilov needs help

Tendentious editing is going on in Umar Israilov, the short bio of a Chechen soldier who was killed in exile, allegedly for accusing President Kadyrov of human rights abuses. Kadyrov allies deny the charge. The article would benefit from impartial review. I thought some WP:Russia volunteers would be interested and well qualified. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 21:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The article has been added to the WikiProject and rated, but no one has responded to the peer review request. The article is short, but some sources are in Russian and need to be evaluated. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 16:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Truce term

Can anybody help me please with what Russian children use as a truce term. A truce term is a word used to call a temporary halt to a game for respite for something like discussing the rules or tying a shoelace etc? Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

While I haven't been to Russia for quite a while and it's been even longer since I was a child, I don't believe things have changed—no such term exists. If Russian kids need to call a temporary halt to a game, they would just use something generic, like "hey", "hold on", "wait", or "stop".—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:03, May 4, 2009 (UTC)

. I vaguely remember smth like "Четыре-четыре – я на перерыве". But I'm not sure. Beatle Fab Four (talk) 22:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Could you translate that for me? Fainites ^barleyscribs 07:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Untranslateable. It's a rhymed pun centered on "I've interrupted whatever we're doing". It is also only tenuously connected with the question. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

This one: ru:Чур. Transliterates as chur. I'm not sure of etymology, but it might be a mutated form of 'truce'.

Also keep in mind that children's culture is not as interconnected as adult culture, and tends to mutate faster. While чур has lived on long enough to become established to the point of being mentioned in various game rulebooks, there are many other, less known and faster-waning words to refer to this concept. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The Russian Wikipedia's page claims that it's the name of an old Slavish god, and its use in games refers to protection of that god. I find it dubious. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Related Estonian word is tsurr. It is unlikely to be the source, but the Estonian usage might be borrowed from Russian. It's also possible that both are loans from a third source, possibly Swedish or Baltic German culture. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 14:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Great. Could you come up with one of those rules of games books for the chur one? Does the russian wikipedia page refer to its use in games as well as the etymology? I'd love you to put a section and a source on the Truce term page. For the Estonian use, is it actually a truce term or the word for a 'safe base'? Fainites ^barleyscribs 16:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, hey, Fanites, you wanted rules of a game. I just remembered that, as a child in Moscow, I played a variant of hide-and-seek, where the spot at which the seeker counted off while everyone hid was 'home', and as he's searching for everyone, if a player can jump out of hiding, run to the 'home', touch it, and yell 'chur for myself', he's safe. And while you're home, if you can see someone jump out of hiding, and you know they aren't making home before the seeker gets them, you can touch home, point at them and yell 'chur for <Name>'. The goal of the seeker was to find and touch the players before they can be 'churred'. Not exactly a 'truce term' usage, more of a protective spell usage. --Cubbi (talk) 12:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Not off the top of my head, sorry. It's been more than a decade since I read about outdoors games in Russian. It might have been Zapletal's book's Russian translation (Zapletal originally writes in Czech), but I'm not certain, and I can't check it.

The Russian Wikipedia page is not very useful. The bulk of it is a copy from [1], which is a very laconic dictionary-style entry explaining that "chur" refers to a magical penis protection gesture and proceeding to a bunch of usage examples. The relevant example is this:

Чур меня! въ играх, не трогай меня, я в стороне. Чур меня от него! нвг. смл. не хочу его.

It could be translated somewhat like this:

Chur [used as a verb] me! In games, don't push me, I'm out. Chur me from him! [two abbreviations I do not recognise] I do not want him.

I don't buy this etymology, either. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The Russian Wikipedia page has interwiki link to the Ukrainian Wikipedia page, uk:Цур. That article appears to claim the word is an Ukrainian interjection which invokes an agreed-on restriction on touching, pushing or grabbing, and can also mean the invoker's desire to get rid of something. The article has the old god etymology; this time, his name is spelt Щур, transliterable as 'Scur'. Finally, the article ends by mentioning the phrase цур моє -- I think it translates to Chur me! --, and it appears to say it was once used as a magic incantation supposed to keep bad spirits away, outside the personal space.

Keep in mind that I do not really read Ukrainian, so I might have misunderstood something in this article. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

In Estonian usage, 'tsurr' is not necessarily tied to a location (although there are some games which do that). Instead, 'tsurr' is a status, which may be conferred -- depending on the particular game -- by performing a bodily manœuvre such as ducking, yelling the word (or one of its alternatives, some games have their own traditional vocabulary) or, in some cases, by entering a safe base. Notably, Estonian 'tsurr' is not a verb; outside the interjection form, one might say "Mul on tsurr" (I have got tsurr).

I was surprised to find that 'tsurr' is mentioned in a stenogram of Estonian parliament. Specifically, Andres Herkel's short speech from August 12, 2008 during the first discussion of the proposed statement about Russian Federation's military aggression against Georgia has these lines, in response to a question by Aadu Must:

Aitäh! Küsija loogika on väga huvitav, sest sellest lähtudes, kui algab sõjaline agressioon, siis just nagu seda sõjalist agressiooni ei ole, sellel asjal, mis toimub, ei olegi nagu mingisugust nime, me laseme sellel rindejoonel nihkuda kuhugi ja ütleme, et nüüd on tsurr!, nüüd peatume ja nüüd nii jääbki. Ausalt öelda, seda ma kõige rohkem kardangi, et Lõuna-Osseetia ümber võib tekkida mingisugune nn Venemaa Föderatsiooni loodud turvakoridor, nagu nad seda nimetavad, tugevdatud rahuvalvemissiooniks, mis sisuliselt seisneb teise maa territooriumi okupeerimises. Sellises seisundis rahu sõlmimine või konflikti konserveerimine on äärmiselt ohtlik, ebaõiglane ja tegelikult hävitab Georgia rahvast ja riiki.

Rough translation:

Thank you! The enquirer's logic is very interesting because based on this, when a military aggression begins, then it's like there is no military aggression, this thing that is going on does not like have any name, we let the frontier to shift somewhere and say now it's tsurr! and let's stop and now it will be like this. Honestly, that I'm afraid of most that there might arise some sort of Russian Federation's so-called security corridor around South Ossetia, which they call strengthened peacekeeping mission, which will amount to occupation of another country's territory. In such a situation entering into a truce or conservation of the conflict is extremely dangerous, unfair, and actually destroys the people and state of Georgia.

-- Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Of the etymologies mentioned above, I think the magic formula to ward off evil might be somewhat plausible. If indeed there is such an old Slavic God, then naturally this magic formula might be related to him. However, I'd like another, independent, source to back it up before I could write this etymology down into Wikipedia. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Vasmer's Etymological Dictionary here and on the next page lists two main meanings of "chur": chur I meaning 'border', 'measure', and chur II meaning a protective or banishing exclamation. He lists about a dozen etymologies with references to respected linguists for both but rejects them all as unsubstantiated or incorrect. Of the more unusual suggestions for chur II I see someone relating it to the god Tyr, and someone even to Greek word χυριος (Lord). He also mentions the supposed deity Chur and says it's not proven either. I don't think we'll ever know. For chur I, I don't see Vasmer saying a big "no" to the suggested reconstruction to the PIE root sker (to cut), which makes it a relative of English 'score', but that's not the mystical-protective use of the word. --Cubbi (talk) 22:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

So is it a bit more than a truce term really then? A protection word? Or both depending on context? The english truce terms are very powerful in the sense that a child who doesn't follow them is pretty much unplayable with, but they are very specifically for a temporary respite only. Not surrender and not a 'safe base' word. Its often expressed as "I've got....". Like "I've got fains" instead of saying "fainites". 'Safe base' words are a whole other article!Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Now you're making it sound like a safeword! I do remember that in some games, a player could say "chur I'm in a house" and would be instantly protected from any game activities until they make a step. I've also used it for ad-hoc changes to the rules "chur no kicking". It's a multipurpose word. --Cubbi (talk) 21:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi guys. Here's my two kopeks: 1) "Чур" has two meanings in modern Russian: one is essentially identical to calling dibs on an object, status or role ("Чур моё!" (dibs on [that]), "Чур я первый" (dibs on the first [try, go]), "Чур я казак!"), the other is an archaic warding word/phrase "Чур меня, чур!" (usually said while performing the sign of the Cross repeatedly) that has been mostly relegated to humorous usage and mocking superstition. I must also add that the Russian article is in shambles - it has an entry from Dahl's dictionary reflecting mid-19th century usage, with the rest of it heavily ringing of WP:OR. 2) The only Russian truce term I know was mentioned by Cubbi: "(я) в домике" (meaning "(I'm) in the house", usually with arms held crossed on the chest) used by little children in hide and seek or catch-type games to become "immune" when discovered or caught, in certain situations. --Illythr (talk) 21:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Infobox practices and original research

There is a discussion going on at Template talk:Infobox Russian federal city regarding whether determining the elevation of a city via Google Earth is considered original research, and whether poorly-definable figures such as metro area/population should be included in the infoboxes at all. Additional input there would most certainly be appreciated.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:48, May 6, 2009 (UTC)

Borki Incident

I created the request article Borki Incident last night. It could still use work, but it's a good start. LikeHolyWater (talk) 16:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

• OMG what a sorry anecdote... Borki crash actually occured in southern Russia (present-day Kursk Oblast Kharkiv oblast of Ukraine) where'd you get the Gatchina lead? I inserted interwiki, check the ru/uk versions. NVO (talk) 05:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Sirin into Siren

See talk:Siren#Merger proposal Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sofia Rotaru

For those interested, please see the talk page. Someone is trying to delete portions of the article.--Rubikonchik (talk) 21:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Enikeev

This article is up on AFD and we could use some experts to determine if it meets inclusion criteria. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear web brigades

You're falling behind. An anonymous editor's insertion of "bloody Putin's regime" has stood for almost three days in the article about racism in Russia. I only noticed and reverted it a few minutes ago.

Please take care of such elementary stuff as vandalism patrol instead of just editwarring on popular topics. I know, I know, vandalism patrol is mindnumbingly boring -- but it's a necessary evil in Wikipedia. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I almost forgot: somebody's got to go over Special:Contributions/213.80.170.74, which appears to contain other similar edits. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 21:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia department of the KGB issues its formal thanks. It's probably this guy. He seems to wander about randomly inserting this kind of stuff as a manifestation of an acute allergy to the Plague, which he appears to have caught himself in the process. Sad. --Illythr (talk) 01:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Lost in translation ... Heritage registers

We have a

1. ‹See Tfd›[Единый государственный реестр объектов культурного наследия РФ] Error: {{Lang-xx}}: text has italic markup (help) [2], with >100,000 properties listed and some 50,000 more regional titles waiting for inclusion;
2. and also a far smaller and different ru:Государственный свод особо ценных объектов культурного наследия народов Российской Федерации, which includes both properties and living institutions (theatres, libraries etc.).

What will be a correct, unambiguous English translation for both of these terms (both appear in the same article on #1). NVO (talk) 16:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I would use the following:

1. Unified State Registry of the Cultural Heritage Objects
2. State Code [or Statute] of Critically Valuable Cultural Heritage Objects of the Peoples of the Russian Federation

...but these are, of course, not official translations.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:51, May 15, 2009 (UTC)

You're right on mark with the second; Council of Europe compendium translates it as "State Code of Particularly Valuable Objects of Cultural Heritage of the Peoples of the Russian Federation" [3]. But to me code sounds misleading, especially when Russian Tax Code and Civil Code appear in the same section. NVO (talk) 06:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd prefer "register" for свод, as a nod to the National Register of Historic Places. This is somewhat less ambiguous. --Ghirla^-трёп- 08:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Probably so, but единый реестр is far closer to NRHP than свод. And if свод is register, then what is реестр? I'd rather avoid having registry and register in one paragraph. NVO (talk) 08:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Our translation efforts border precariously on the verge of original research. You may use "inventory" or "catalogue" as a substitute for "cumulative register", keeping in mind that the language of Russian bureaucracy is not amenable to translation :) --Ghirla^-трёп- 08:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

What about "collection" for свод? According to the link you've given, the свод includes both a register and an archive of documents. Hoezo (talk) 12:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Alexander Lebedev article

Was reading the [Alexander Lebedev] article and realized the whole biography section is basically copied from his website. Does this not raise some copyright issues? (I'm new to Wikipedia so haven't quite got my head round everything yet!) Hoezo (talk) 19:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Hoezo, and welcome to WP. You are correct that text which is copied does raise copyright issues, as per WP:COPYVIO. Under that policy you are able to remove without question anything which is copied from a source which isn't released under a free licence. As Lebedev's website doesn't state that content is licenced under a free licence, and also because of the clear copyright notice, much of the text in his article is a copyright violation and I have removed it based upon that policy. I also noticed that you removed material from the talk page of that article, and it is a good removal; you may want to note the WP:BLP policy, for the removal of the comments on the talk page by yourself not only removed information which isn't relevant to the article and its improvement, but also removed a clear violation of the WP:BLP policy. You are going good so far, and if you have any questions relating to policies, and the like, feel free to post any questions here, we're all here to help new editors. Cheers, --Russavia ^Dialogue 05:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for a 200-WikiProject contest

A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist    00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Please help with new template

please help enhance this template:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ash sul (talk • contribs)

• I think that dumping two empires and present-day state in one bunch is incorrect. And if it's done, how deep should it go into primordial time - Kulikovo field? Deeper? Also: the first entry in the list, Kościuszko Uprising, is clearly not an "internal affair". Also: putting together Civil War and Yazov's putsch onto one line is, well, listcruft. Any idea how to separate major wars from three-day conflicts? NVO (talk) 02:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

By using categories instead of templates. What is the point of this template anyway? It sure does not aide navigation, no matter how you move stuff around. And why does the "Russian Armed Forces" link in the title lead to history of Russia?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:33, May 20, 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation

This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 06:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

FAR National Anthem of Russia

I have nominated National Anthem of Russia for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. OboeCrack (talk) 17:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Maps needed

Most of the articles on oblasts, cities, towns etc. lack maps to show where they are, and to bring out the local geography. Without that geography, their history loses something, and they are less useful to non-Russian readers. Unless you know where Rzhev is, and how it relates to the Volga and surrounding country, you lose value. I have no facility to add maps, so I can't help. Michael of Lucan (talk) 17:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I hope you don't think we are keeping the maps to ourselves in hopes to keep all those places secret, eh? :) Whenever there is a map, it is added to appropriate places. If you know of a map that hasn't been added to appropriate places, that's obviously an oversight that needs to be fixed—you are welcome to point such cases out. In the meanwhile, the popup feature of the coordinates service is the place to go.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:42, May 26, 2009 (UTC)

I made my comment because these articles appear in the English language version of Wikipedia. So, you cannot assume that readers have any knowledge of Russia. Even people who go there as tourists usually see only Saint Petersburg or Moscow. I have been to Western Russia (mainly the Riga road and Rzhev area) many years ago, and remember it with interest and pleasure. However, when I read articles about the area, I get no sense of the geography of the place. The articles deal more with the history, which is interesting too of course. The picture of Rzhev is almost a century old, from before the Revolution, although it does show the relationship with the Volga. (BTW, the Zubtsov war memorial told me more about the War against Hitler than any history book. Maybe a good article to be written.) Michael of Lucan (talk) 11:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Providence Bay , Siberia. (Russian Provideniya) and English place names on the Siberian coast

There were a lot of Americans and other English speakers active on the Siberian coast in the 19th and early 20th centuries. They gave English names to places, sometimes in advance of Russian names. These are now mostly gone from modern maps, which is confusing for someone reading history. I spent some time sorting out Emma Harbor, Providence Bay, and Plover Bay, and wrote a short article Providence Bay, Siberia summarizing what I learned. Using the English version as the title appears to violate the naming guideline. I have a couple concerns. If the article needs to be renamed, I'd like to get it right the first time. That means I need an authoritative Russian name and some help with the transliteration, or an official transliteration. More broadly, is there an efficient way to handle these English place names or could one be developed? I'm thinking of something as simple as a list. Any help appreciated.Dankarl (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• The story matches Russian books, apart from minor detail, but there's another side to it, i.e. in the same 1881 when "the revenue cutter Corwin took on coal at Plover Bay" Strelok, a Russian military steam corvette, was recording coastline and depths near Providenia (they reached Providenia July 27 and stayed in the area until late August, incidentally meeting American USS Rodgers (1879) and SS Handy) [4] quite a lot of ships, even more shipwrecsks ... Hey! put that coal back! oh well, we all see our side of history. NVO (talk) 15:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• I was wondering about that. Looks like US Revenue Cutters called (and coaled?) at Providini[y]a Bay regularly, Corwin certainly more than once in 1881, I have not chased down the other references. I presume this was by some sort of arrangement. But did Russia have someone there to stop every steam whaler in the Pacific from coaling, or at least to keep track of their bill?

Do I take it from your use that Providenia, not Provideniya is the authoritative transliteration?Dankarl (talk) 16:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

US govt sources list Provideniya Bay FAA example, keep it. Done, added Webster dictionary ref. NVO (talk) 06:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I recommend renaming to remove Siberia from the title. Far Eastern coastline is definitely not Siberia (see this article discussing the borderline issue). Providence Bay slot is empty, why not? NVO (talk) 07:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Could I get you to put the Strelok visit into the article? Since I don't read Russian I can't read your source. Thanks Dankarl (talk) 16:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion continues at Providence Bay, Siberia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dankarl (talk • contribs) 16:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for an article to be part of Wiki:Project Russia

I have noticed that this article is part of Wiki:Project Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russians

So I thought why not this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_of_ethnic_minorities_in_Estonia

Russians are the biggest ethnic minority in Estonia. The article looks promising and is well cited. I see no reason not to make it a part of Wiki:Project Russia.

Alas it is also being nominated for deletion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Discrimination_of_ethnic_minorities_in_Estonia

Personally I want to give this article a chance, and maybe including it in Wiki:Project Russia will give it that chance. Maybe not, but I figured it's worth a shot, what do you guys think? HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 21:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, there is no need to nominate articles for project inclusion (we neither have a nomination/approval process in place, nor really need one). If you think an article should be covered by WP:RUSSIA (and, AfD issues aside, the one you mentioned does belong), just tag the talk page with {{WikiProject Russia}} and that's that. If you want to assess the article in the process, that's great, if not, that's OK, too—someone will get to it eventually. If anyone ever disagrees with your inclusion/assessment, the matter can be re-visited then.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:37, June 2, 2009 (UTC)

What I am pointing out here, is that a potential WikiProject:Russia article is about to be DELETED, and I would like to get the opinions of the members of WikiProject:Russia as to whether this article should be deleted or not. In addition having members in this group assess the project's quality would be great! I think the article has great potential, and is well sourced, but when the other side would rather delete it then debate, I come here to seek advice from fellow Wiki editors of WikiProject:Russia. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 07:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)