Talk:War of the League of Cambrai: Difference between revisions
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The link to the Council of Pisa, which occurred in the text that narrated how Julius and Spain agreed punish Florence because Florence had slighted the Pope by allowing Louis to hold the Council of Pisa in Florentine territory, incorrectly lead the reader to the Wiki article of the Great Western Schism's Council of Pisa (1409), an event that obviously had transpired more than one century before the Wars of the League of Cambrai! There were ecumenical councils of Pisa, the First at 1409, the Second at 1511 which was also known as the [[Fifth |
The link to the Council of Pisa, which occurred in the text that narrated how Julius and Spain agreed punish Florence because Florence had slighted the Pope by allowing Louis to hold the Council of Pisa in Florentine territory, incorrectly lead the reader to the Wiki article of the Great Western Schism's Council of Pisa (1409), an event that obviously had transpired more than one century before the Wars of the League of Cambrai! There were ecumenical councils of Pisa, the First at 1409, the Second at 1511 which was also known as the [[Fifth Council of the Lateran]] which was a debate over clerical reform and sovereignty of the monarchs v. Papal claims. |
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Jonathan Chin |
Revision as of 04:49, 12 June 2009
![]() | War of the League of Cambrai is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 10, 2005, December 10, 2006, December 10, 2007, and December 10, 2008. |
Early comments
Seamless meld! Was that all the material that wasn't already here? Good edit! --Wetman 10:15, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I think this article is ready for Primetime FA status. --R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 12:24, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
- There are still some things I'd like to add, actually; maybe in a week or two. Kirill Lokshin 18:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
alliances
I thought about making a war info box but its almost impossible because of the shifting alliances. Do I have this right: it starts out with the Pope & France vs. Venice (1508-10), then its the Pope & Venice vs. France (1510-12).. and finally its Venice & France vs. the Pope (1512-1516) (not to mention all the other countries involved) Astrokey44 12:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
- It's important to mention Spain and the HRE, at the very least. We then have:
- Pope + Spain/HRE + France v. Venice (1508–1510)
- Pope + Venice v. France + Spain/HRE (1510–1511)
- Pope + Venice + Spain/HRE v. France (1511–1512)
- Pope + Spain/HRE v. Venice + France (1513–1516)
- I'll point out, however, that the reason there isn't a warbox on this article is because the Military history WikiProject is currently discussing a new (standard) format for them (partially to deal with complicated cases like this); I think a badly-written warbox using the existing template is worse than no warbox at all. I encourage you to comment on the project page if the matter interests you further; we're happy for any suggestions. Kirill Lokshin 12:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
- Ok I tried making a box just to explain the alliances, not the standard one. but I didnt see Spain and the HRE on the French side 1510-1511. Is that right? Astrokey44 12:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
- They were formally in the League, but didn't really do anything. I've left them omitted to avoid over-complicating things. I've also moved the box down the page to where the League is first discussed; I don't think it's necessary to hit the reader with so many details as soon as they try to read the article, since the lead section is supposed to be of more general interest. Kirill Lokshin 13:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Result box
War of the League of Cambrai results | |||||||||||||||||
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I've removed the box listing the results. It drastically over-simplifies both the phases of the war and the actual results; a correct description of the result would be a paragraph of text for each phase. I see no need to use such simplified information merely for the dubious benefit of having another box on the page, which already has two. Kirill Lokshin 14:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Some further clarification on why the result box is a bad idea:
- Unlike the alliances, there is little need for someone to refer back to the box as a reference while reading. It is particularly useless in its place at the bottom of the article, since anyone seeing it will already have read through the relevant sections. The text, I think, quite adequately explains the results of each phase without needing to resort to a special table.
- The results are simplified; in the case of the first phase, particularly, the over-simplification is a gross one: properly, France defeated Venice, Venice defeated the HRE and the Papacy, but surrendered to the Papacy. Further, the large French presence in Italy is an artifact of the Second Italian War, and was merely increased by the French victory here. I believe that it is better to omit the box entirely rather than put a grossly simplified explanation into place.
Hopefully this makes clear why I decided to remove it. Kirill Lokshin 16:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
- Ok fine, it just seems that the article needs some simplification. It seems to be one of the most confusing wars in history. I wanted it because theres always a "result" section of the standard warboxes. Astrokey44 21:16, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
- I've added a result section to the warbox at the top (thanks for pointing that out — I'm surprised I missed its absence). I think the result of the war as a whole should be quite sufficient for the casual reader; if anyone is really interested in finding out how each phase ended, they probably don't need a separate box to tell them, as they'll likely be reading the article fully. Kirill Lokshin 21:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Shaw citation
"Christine Shaw, Julius II: the Warrior Pope (Oxford:Blackwell) 1993." - can we get a page number with that? It's not really a citation, otherwise.
(And, in any case, there's no need to revert stylistic cleanup merely because you want to add the citations back; nor to arbitrarily change citation styles; and particularly not to alter citations to point to an entirely different place without realizing that a different edition is being used.) Kirill 13:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Will do. How could I have thought the citations were being deleted? --Wetman 19:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for adding them. (I suppose I ought to get a copy of that book at some point, so I can do that myself. ;-) Kirill 20:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Will do. How could I have thought the citations were being deleted? --Wetman 19:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Wow...
While I'm not suppose to make forum discussion comments, I just have to say, clicking on the link on the main page and reading the box. I just can't help but laugh. So much side switching! DarkGhost89 (talk) 12:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Emergency! Link is WRONG!
Wowowow! All stop!
The link to the Council of Pisa, which occurred in the text that narrated how Julius and Spain agreed punish Florence because Florence had slighted the Pope by allowing Louis to hold the Council of Pisa in Florentine territory, incorrectly lead the reader to the Wiki article of the Great Western Schism's Council of Pisa (1409), an event that obviously had transpired more than one century before the Wars of the League of Cambrai! There were ecumenical councils of Pisa, the First at 1409, the Second at 1511 which was also known as the Fifth Council of the Lateran which was a debate over clerical reform and sovereignty of the monarchs v. Papal claims.
Jonathan Chin
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