Talk:Zahir al-Umar

Source

It would be nice to have some source references; I'll probably eventually look him up in the big Encyclopaedia of Islam, but I'm not sure when... AnonMoos 02:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Added info from Encyclopaedia of Islam, still needs improvement. AnonMoos 03:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Bedouin?

I belive describing him as Bedouin is not accurate, he/his family owned land and were well settled, the description bedouin is for nomadic population and related social behavior, which arab villagers and population of the cities clearly do not have, i think the writer wanted to say tribal or something like that, which is something else ... "arab tribes is not equal to bedouins, but arab bedouins are generally tribal population".--213.6.12.230 (talk) 23:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

He didn't lead a bedouin or animal-herding lifestyle, but his family seems to have had influential connections to bedouin leaders. AnonMoos (talk) 05:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

So what? the East India company had "influential connections" with the Moghuls. 92.235.178.44 (talk) 22:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Not sure what that's supposed to mean -- Dhaher apparently used his family's tribal ties to help vault himself from a semi-obscure local notable to a strong regional ruler. I completely fail to see any valid analogy to British-Mogul relations... AnonMoos (talk) 14:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

He was from the Bani Zaidan tribe. Not a bedouin in the sense of nomadic lifestyle, but hailing from a bedouin bloodline. His family tree can be traced back to Ali actually. I know people in Nazareth from the same bloodline and the tree goes that far back. Tiamut^talk 15:19, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Name spelling

Why is his name 'Dhaher'. All his family know him as DAHER. We are the DAHER family, and he is known by everyone as DAHER El Omar. He is not 'DHAHER', someone should change this... (Bubbles*de*milo (talk) 00:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC))

According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the consonant in question is Arabic ظ, which is not normally transcribed into English as "d", except when recording purely colloquial pronunciations of certain dialects (without reference to Arabic-alphabet spellings). I changed it from "D" to "Dh" to better reflect Arabic ظ... AnonMoos (talk) 19:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Wiki naming conventions suggests that we should use the spelling favoured in the scholarship. In this case, "Daher el-Omar" is the most common spelling used (200 hits google book hits), followed by "Daher al-Omar" (36 hits) "Dhaher el-Omar" (34 hits), and lastly our current spelling "Dhaher al-Omar" (only 4 hits). I'm moving the page to the spelling most commonly used. Tiamut^talk 22:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Latest Arabic Wikipedia twist

Interwiki to Arabic Wikipedia was changed from ظاهر to ضاهر but I think we should stay with the Encyclopaedia of Islam, unless there's specific countervailing evidence... AnonMoos (talk) 04:44, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

So it's been a long time since your comment, but anyway I'm a new user. I would point out, being a native Arabic speaker, that there is actually some ambiguity between these two characters; especially since Arabic was not a standard written language for a very long time, the practices vary, although almost anybody I know with that name today would spell it as it appears in the Arabic wikipedia article.Abedwayyad (talk) 09:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abedwayyad (talk • contribs) 09:54, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

ظ and ض were pronounced differently in early Arabic, but seem to have fallen together in most varieties of Arabic speech in Umayyad times (though kept separate in tajwid). For the purposes of English Wikipedia (concerning a historical figure, not a modern surname), I think we should really stick with the Encyclopaedia of Islam, unless there is strong evidence against it... AnonMoos (talk) 00:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Arabic Wikipedia has now gone back to ظاهر

I kind of suspected that might happpen... AnonMoos (talk) 02:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Burial place

Some editors have uploaded pictures to commons of the old graveyard in Al-Manshiyya, Acre, (see: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Al-Manshiyya,_Acre), writing that Daher el-Omar is buried there. Now, none of the sources I have on Al-Manshiyya (Khalidi, Petersen) mentions this. Does anyone know? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 14:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Dead

I believe that the dead of Zahir is a bit confuse and contains some mistakes; in my advice al-Dhahab of Egipt conquered Acre in 1775 (operation against Palestine started in march 1775), but as he deceased in june 1775 the egiptians don't retain the city that was recobered by Zahir. But a ottoman naval force take Acre in august 1775; then Zahir was killed while fled or while the city was sacked. see [1]. The mistake surely derives from Enciclopaedya of Islam that erroneousely states that Acre was conquered august 1774 instead 1775. Zahir was 80 years old.--95.17.88.104 (talk) 19:30, 11 February 2012 (UTC)