Talk:Qigong

Scientific Evidence

I'm very skeptical of qigong, and trying to find any trials that could disprove effectiveness of qigong I stumbled on the the following page referencing and citing over 20 publications that claim effectiveness of qigong. Publications of research Though the content of the website itself can be biased, there are definite references. So a further review of these studies/publications is needed to determine their credibility.

I also found a skepticism article here: Sima Nan: Fighting Qigong Pseudoscience in China, which however quotes almost no research, but features a view of a skeptic who's been involved in qiqong community.

The following webpage gives a thorough analysis of current scientific evidence, references corresponding studies, but also notes that most studies suffer from small sample size, are not double-blinded etc. Scientific Evidence for Qigong and Conditions where it seem to be effective —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.223.127.206 (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Article has been rewritten with enough external references to address the issue of skeptics. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your input & effort Ottawakungfu (71.215.152.102 (talk) 00:15, 17 October 2010 (UTC))

Thanks for the comment. The quality of the article depends on everyone! Keep it informative, keep it unbiased. Use appropriate references ottawakungfu (talk) 05:18, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

qigong and reiki

I don't know much about qigong or reiki, but they sound very similar. I would like to see each article mention the other and briefly compare the two. Bhami (talk) 07:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

We can't compare them in the article, that would be original research on our part. We can report if someone else compares them in an independent mainstream reliable source. On a talk page it is safe to say that qigong is a much bigger subject, with a lot more variety. Qigong is Chinese, reiki, while a Japanese word, pretty much only exists in the west, reiki relies on channeling spirits and making magical squiggles in the air, while qigong is a person breathing in various patterns for various reasons. There are other differences, but that is a good start. --Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων (talk) 23:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The similarities is probably due to the nature of the energetic arts. Article has been rewritten to point out that qigong have some resemblance to those ideas. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:09, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I just want to add that there IS more to these things than meets the eye. To my own surprise, as someone who always used to discount such things, I have self-realised Reiki after the fashion of the original methods taught by Usui back in the 1920s. This is a wider set of practices, including diagnostic techniques, than the current western style, which by comparison is watered-down 'just send it in' approach. I'm amazed at what is possible, but what will be will be. Google 'steve the healer' for info on me. I stand by what I do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.215.5 (talk) 01:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

the exercises

There's nothing about what the movements or breathing are. The pictures show what look like tai chi moves, and the only description of the breathing is "the inverse breath of inhaling to the back of the thoracic cavity rather than diaphragmatic breathing", which means nothing to the layman. (What's an inverse breath? What's the thoractic cavity?) A simple description or example is needed, and also how qigong is different from tai chi and yoga. (The talk archive says a bit about tai chi in the "Types of Chi-Gong" section.) Sluggoster (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: the movements, there are so many variations. Some movements are fairly common but others would be individual to one of the 100s or 1000s of styles in existence. Re: reverse breathing, it could be described but descriptions vary a lot and I doubt anybody would really understand even from the best of descriptions. --Simon D M (talk) 12:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, Wikipedia is not a how-to manual. We should be more general. There's no way we could describe the hundreds of different variants from style to style, or even the likely dozens of variants within styles. --Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων (talk) 19:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

There is now reference wikipedia links on representative qigong exercises. Taht should address those comments. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Needs an Overhaul (Comments applied to article before Major Revision in June, 2010)

I'm an acupuncturist and certified Qigong instructor. I unfortunately don't have time to rewrite this article for at least 6 months, but I need to point out some important inaccuracies. The section titled "the Rise of Qigong" is completely wrong regarding the origins of Qigong. The primary work cited is a book on a single, fairly new form of Qigong (Falun Gong). But Qigong predates Chinese medicine, kung fu, tai chi, and all other systematized arts based on Qi. Qigong is, in essence, more "raw" than these other arts -- it is essentially the practice of perceiving, cultivating, and manipulating Qi for spiritual, martial, or health purposes. According to Daniel Reid, in "Harnessing the Power of the Universe: A Complete Guide to the Principles and Practice of Chi-Gung," the earliest forms of Qigong are probably about 10,000 years old, and were the domain of tribal shamans. (Qigong of this era took a form similar to dance.)

Regarding the sections discussing the PRC government's role in the process of promoting and organizing Qigong, this needs to be put into proper context. Much of the history of Qigong has been fairly secretive, with master-disciple lineages similar to the kung fu tradition. Until recently, the government had no particular role in Qigong aside from threatening its practitioners. Even now, it seems the government's involvement is a concession to Qigong's great number of adherents, with the clear ulterior motive of suppressing mass organization. However, there is probably some earnest interest in proving its merit as a health supporting practice.

In the Uses paragraph, it is misleading to say Qigong employs a particular style of breathing, or even that "Taoist qigong employs..." As with kung fu, there are innumerable styles of Qigong, and certainly no unified theory or practice. As for making any claims of "Taoist Qigong," most Qigong masters probably consider themselves Daoists (more or less), and many would say their Qigong is based on Daoist principles. There is no single "Taoist Qigong."

I don't mean to hurt any feelings, but this article was written with a poor and incomplete survey of sources.

Anahata9 (talk) 06:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

What you see is what I call a "bulletin board" article; a compendium of at least 4 or 5 years of drive by editing, with almost every editor promoting their own school. If you can improve it, please feel free whenever you have time (I don't have much either) and especially if you have the sources. --Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων (talk) 01:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

You fail as an qigong instructor without knowing what really is qigong. As the original article said, qigong in its modern form with different schools and types only appeared in post-mao china. There might be mentions of "qi", "neigong", "neijin" in Traditional Chinese Martial arts but they are not "qigong" as you know it today.

Just because the concept of "qi" existed for a long doesn't mean that it's qi gong. If there aren't any accurate sources saying hw those earlier forms became the "qigong" you know today, then it isn't qigong. The concept of qi is not qi gong. It's like saying Judaism is a Abrahamitic Monotheistic religion, Islam is a Abrahamictic Monotheistic religion. Therefore, Islam existed the moment Judaism began and Islam is Judaism. That is just plain ignorance.

Have you even wondered why the term "qi gong", just like "wu shu" didn't even exist in Chinese texts in pre-communist china? "Wu shu" is a watered down,exhibition oriented sport derivated from chinese martial arts. Wushu is not kungfu. Just like how the concept of qi is not qigong. Go look at the history of Chinese Martial Arts, there are no sects, schools, clans or families practicing or teaching qigong. Don't get influenced by wuxia novels and by poorly researched books. Although Qi Gong can has its origins traced a long way back, Qi Gong in its form today only existed in the modern era. 60.52.103.141 (talk) 18:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I will help you understand what Qigong means.. Qi (also 'Chi', 'Ki') literally means 'Energy'-- Gong (also Kung [as in kung fu, etc.]) literally means 'Work', or a work-in 'Practice'.. It is the 'Art/practice' of 'working with energy'... This may help you understand 'origins of Qigong' -- there really is no 'origin' as describing the source of Qigong is like describing the source of languages, it is not something you can go "Oh yeah it was year XX B.C. when the book 'How to use Energy' was written". No.. it is not that simple. This wikipedia article is sincerely in need of a total Re-Haul! And please, skeptics who for some reason cannot grasp the concept that 'Qi gong' requires no 'proving' as it proves it self -- go somewhere else! You are not needed. Also..

"User talk:60.52.103.141 18:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)", you are completely wrong. You fail to understand that Qigong, as with ALL ancient-spiritual traditions, has evolved due to modernization of the planet - it has not 'emerged' as a 'new form of qigong' as you say! It is not just Qigong, it is EVERY ASPECT of our life too - specific political ideals, specific cultural taboos/acceptances, specific technologies, etc. it is only recently that there has been a 'globalization' of cultures and hence traditions..

If anyone, somebody like Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming should be writing the Qigong article! Or at least source his knowledge in this wikipedia article.. Wouldn't it be stupid to have first-day students teach the class instead of professors who have Ph.D's and/or years of relevant experience in the subject? Just so, it is STUPID to have these 'blatant close-minded' 'snippets' compose a wikipedia article. If you skeptics of qigong must, then treat the article as if it is make-believe, does it harm you to have the article written by Qigong masters and experienced practitioners? Or are mostly just disinformation agents? (71.222.36.171 (talk) 07:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC))

Overhaul completed. The tone of the article is more neutral and should be more informative. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:13, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I think what 60.52.103.141 said is correct, the concept of Qi exist for a long time but the Qigong concept and the practice of Qigong as an exercise really did only exist in post communist China. Unlike what those Qigong practitioners tell you, Qigong doesn't cover all aspect of life pre-communist China and although it was taught this way to current practitioners, it doesn't mean that it's true. Brush up on your history if you can. TCM is based on Qi concepts but doesn't use Qigong (like how some Qigong practitioners do nowadays) to heal patients. Martial arts/Kung fu like Taichi doesn't use Qigong. Qigong is mysticism mixed with semi-knowledgable martial arts breathing techniques after the Cultural Revolution purged and oppressed a lot of religious people and those who knew martial arts. Here's a google ngram on emperor, wushu, kungfu and qigong. http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=%E7%9A%87%E5%B8%9D%2C%E6%AD%A6%E6%9C%AF%2C%E5%8A%9F%E5%A4%AB%2C%E6%B0%94%E5%8A%9F&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=11&smoothing=50 by using the emperor as a point of reference in chinese texts. Here's wushu, kungfu and qigong. http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=%E6%AD%A6%E6%9C%AF%2C%E5%8A%9F%E5%A4%AB%2C%E6%B0%94%E5%8A%9F&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=11&smoothing=50 . Notice how the mention of wushu and qigong in chinese texts only rises post-communist China? This is coming from a Malaysian Chinese who had first hand experience with TCM and Chinese Martial Arts. We don't use qigong in TCM and Chinese martial arts, the claims of Qigong practitioners are exaggerated actually.--175.137.84.105 (talk) 03:25, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The revised article tries to provide a balance view on the history of qigong from all perspectives. Independent research and anecdotal examples should not be used. ottawakungfu (talk) 05:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

"Health" as an analogy

I wonder how much of Western confusion results from a very literal interpretation. To make an analogy, consider the Western concept of health.

Everyone knows that a person can have good health or be in poor health. We may even say that a person can be stricken or afflicted with bad health, or lost his health due to unhealthy activity. We have buildings that say "National Institutes of Health". Yet there is no physician who can dissect the health out of a cadaver (reasonably enough) or even a healthy person. No one can say how much health weighs or what color it is. Two doctors can look at a patient and disagree about whether he is healthy or not. By far most of the times we see the word printed on the side of a box of sugared cereal extract or a jug of fortified juice-flavored high fructose corn syrup it means nothing about whether a person will get sick or not. In fact lots of people talk about health but only a subset of them are actually helpful. I hope that people who are fluent with both cultures will consider whether something similar applies to qigong, or if it is a fundamentally different phenomenon than this. Wnt (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The interpretation of linguistic constructs is addressed somewhat at http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine where Manfred Porkert is quoted as saying:

Chinese medicine, like many other Chinese sciences, defines data on the basis of the inductive and synthetic mode of cognition. Inductivity corresponds to a logical link between two effective positions existing at the same time in different places in space. (Conversely, causality is the logical link between two effective positions given at different times at the same place in space.) In other words, effects based on on positions that are separate in space yet simultaneous in time are mutually inductive and thus are called inductive effects. In Western science prior to the development of electrodynamics and nuclear physics (which are founded essentially on inductivity), the inductive nexus was limited to subordinate uses in protosciences such as astrology. Now Western man, as a consequence of two thousand years of intellectual tradition, persists in the habit of making causal connections first and inductive links, if at all, only as an afterthought. This habit must still be considered the biggest obstacle to an adequate appreciation of Chinese science in general and Chinese medicine in particular. Given such different cognitive bases, many of the apparent similarities between traditional Chinese and European science which attract the attention of positivists turn out to be spurious.

Inductive logic is faulty compared to Causal logic because of the Base Rate Fallacy and other related cognitive biases. Because of this, choosing inductivity before causality is just plain irrational. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.83.223 (talk) 01:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

--Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων (talk) 22:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe User:Wnt is seeking to discuss how health is treated as quantifiable in western medicine and whether or not a similar concept of health is applied in qigong theory. My understanding is that it is not, but I'm just trying to focus the topic, not provide an opinion on it. This quote seems ot be about something different. I believe Porkert is discussing the nature of causality and logic in Chinese medicine. In a sense, he is showing that TCM doesn't conform to the scientific method and relies on different standards for verifiability of claims (primarily induction rather than deduction). This is not linguistic: it is a cognitive paradigm. --Shaggorama (talk) 16:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. Let's put it this way. If someone holds his hand against you, there are several scientific things that emanate from his hand - warmth, sweat, germs, dead skin cells. There are several unscientific or fraudulent things that could be said to emanate from it - "aura", "life force", "healing energy", as these terms would be defined by most Americans (i.e. as simple physical forces that could be detected by Kirlian photography, rather than as descriptions of a possible or desired net effect). And then there are intangible things: comfort, help, curiosity, friendship, love, concern. I am worried that some of the perceived difference in perspective may be the result of confusing the intangible with the unscientific, but only if I were intimately familiar with both cultural perspectives would I be able to know for sure. Wnt (talk) 17:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to clean up your lingo a little, let's use "empirical" and ob"objective" instead of scientific. I think that the difference in perspective, first off, is not just perceived; it rests in the differences inherent between the two paradigms and the incommensurability that results. The main confusion is that in china, the "intangible" is treated as empirical. The literature on chinese medical examination and treatment by acupuncture, for instance, goes back hundreds of years and has been evolving since. The problem is that in the west, we only treat something as measurable if it can be quantified by a machine (our version of objectivity), so although Qi is treated as empriical in China, it isn't in the West because it can only be examined subjectively by practitioners (although some folks claim to have "field reading" type devices that are suitable for TCM). Moreover, the emotional "intangible" notions you described are intimately tied into "tangible" chinese concepts, such as accupoints and qi. Basically, in the west there is a distinction between signs (objective) and symptoms (subjective), whereas in the east they are the same. --Shaggorama (talk) 06:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I practice Qi Gong. There is nothing intangible about the things I feel inside my body when I do it. Or even when I'm 'not' doing it. 90.205.92.84 (talk) 01:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Such arguments are beyond the scope of this article. Facts should be presented in a neutral tone and it will up to the reader to make their own judgment. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

link to a qigong site with more then 100 different persons report on their results from qigong training

I think it could be of interest to read about people who have practiced qigong for some time. Here is a site where more than 100 people have related their stories with name and photo. The site also relates to research and projects observed by medical doctors with significant result.

ArneNordgren (talk) 20:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)ArneNordgren

Wikipedia is not a link farm - independent (not peer review) research is not considered to be credible references. Anecdotal evidence should not be used in citations. ottawakungfu (talk) 05:03, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Balance science view and eastern beliefs

Hello all. There are some views that qigong is pseudo scientific. Some of those come from pretty well meaning Chinese people and literature. But I do feel that this article should represent more about what is meaningfully symbolic to certain cultures concerning qigong. Phdarts (talk) 14:34, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

In the re-write as of June 2010, the history of qigong provides this balance. ottawakungfu (talk) 05:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

oh c'mon

Comment prior to the June 2010 rewrite

Seriously people, this article drives me sick. It is so biased it pains me to see it's wikipedia content. It manipulates content in a way of making more relevant arguments made by believes of supernatural stuff. This is an encyclopedia, and not a self-help book. Even the definition of the article doesn't have sources. This is a pretty controversial article, yes - write about it in an unbiased way, talking about different groups' opinions and views. Repetitive but necessary: this is an encyclopedia.

200.158.99.250 (talk) 03:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

since it's about qigong it should obviously be written from the perspective of qigong. other views are also relevant, but it would make no sense to write an article about something which is understood to lay outside the realm of material science in terms of material science--that would obviously be meaningless. such views go in a criticism section or whatever. Pretty simple. this isn't validating any particular subject, it's just allowing each subject to establish its own ontology, and I reckon that is the only sensible way to do things. --Asdfg12345 17:16, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

user Asdfg12345 wrote "since it's about qigong it should obviously be written from the perspective of qigong." Sorry, but that's rubbish. Should an entry about fairies be written "from the perspective of fairies" or those who believe in their literal existence? Should the entry about Scientology's character "Xenu" be written "from the perspective of Scientology"? Hardly! When supernatural claims are made, the position of an encyclopedia MUST be one of skepticism. 209.79.149.202 (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Thankfully, I don't really care. But to assume that the subject is made-up, false, fake, nonsense etc. to begin with, is not encyclopedic. I'm saying it should be discussed on its own terms, and its meaning clarified in relation to the dominant paradigm, rather than cast the whole thing only in terms of the dominant paradign. I see this as quite a simple and straightforward idea, and one which doesn't require any ideological struggle. It doesn't seek to diminish materialist science, but merely say "This is how qigong understands xyz, this is its ontology. Science says it's all rubbish." Readers can take their pick. Anyway, no one is looking after this article to begin with, so our talk is fairly fruitless. Best wishes.--Asdfg12345 05:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Perspective == Point of View. Wikipedia tries to adhere to a Neutral Point of View. Why are we having this discussion again?

Anyway. If there are no empirically relevant health benefits in Qigong, so be it. If it makes you feel good more than it does you harm, it's still a good thing -- even if it won't cure your cancer or Parkinson's or regrow an amputated limb. Just accept it as what it is: a technique of meditation and relaxation. Placebos aren't entirely useless. Even less so if they make some people feel better. It's supposed to be an internal technique anyway. Maybe someone should do a couple of psychological studies rather than medical ones -- life isn't only about survival. -- 134.95.158.199 (talk) 10:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't make the Qigong article any more 'skeptical'. Because honestly I have researched Qigong for many years, and when I read the Wikipedia page on it just today, I couldn't help but flinch at the bias towards the skeptical side. But that's wikipedia for you, it's 'home for the skeptics' for sure. If some of you guys would actually do some open-minded research, and read a few books written by actual descendents of true Qigong practices/traditions (rather than 'American-ized' Qigong) you would realize that every human being 'practices qigong' on some scale day-to-day. To deny Chi or Qi exists, is to completely misunderstand what Chi or Qi is. I could go deeper into the subject of Qigong, but I will stop here. Peace. 71.222.44.231 (talk) 21:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

In the re-write as of June, 2010, the neutral point of view is implemented. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Serious credibility problem

The final sentence of the third paragraph of the first section reads "There is a great deal of verifiable evidence (6,000 years worth) of an anatomical or histological scientific basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.[2]" The citation at the end just leads to a footnote that says "Felix Mann", and links to the WP entry on him. However, that entry reads "Mann has firmly distanced himself from beliefs in the existence of acupuncture points and meridians.[4]" The citation listed there takes one to a footnote and an interview with Felix Mann, in which two passages from Mann's book "Reinventing Acupuncture" are quoted: "The traditional acupuncture points are no more real than the black spots a drunkard sees in front of his eyes" (p. 14) and "The meridians of acupuncture are no more real than the meridians of geography. If someone were to get a spade and tried to dig up the Greenwich meridian, he might end up in a lunatic asylum. Perhaps the same fate should await those doctors who believe in [acupuncture] meridians." Clearly, Mann does not provide "...verifiable evidence...of an anatomical or histological scientific basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians", as the entry would have us believe; he argues against them. Consequently, I'm striking that sentence and its contradictory footnote. Once a supporter of qigong and "meridians" can provide something resembling "verifiable evidence", they may have another crack at it. Bricology (talk) 19:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I pruned out more nonsense: the final sentence of the third paragraph of the "Uses" section reads "Improper use of diaphragmatic breathing can lead to reproductive pathologies for women. [3]" "Reproductive pathologies for women" is nonsensical, and the citation footnote is for a book called "Meditation and the Cultivation of Immortality" -- hardly a credible scientific source. Bricology (talk) 19:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

In re-write, such points are not included. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:36, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zhong Gong

FYI. Ikip (talk) 02:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Journal article

Structure and property changes in certain materials influenced by the external qi of qigong. Claims to have produced structural changes in inanimate objects via qi. Andre (talk) 21:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

There are reports of this phenomenon but the problem is reproducibility under control conditions. Such information is included in the re-write with the appropriate reference. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:38, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Who?

"Association of qigong with practices involving spirit possession have added to establishment criticism. Some experts in China[who?] have warned against practices involving the claimed evocation of demons,..."
The "who?" is for example the selfstyled Supermaster of Falun Gong, Li Hongshi, who hints meanwhile that he is an extraterrestrial. In his writing Zhuan Falun he warns explicitly against other forms of Qi Gong, since only his invention is the only true method. Foxspirits might jump out of other Qigong books (no kidding! That is what he writes.)
That might answer the "who?" if one is willing to call Li Hongshi an expert. I don't want to change anything in the article, because I'm not so confident of my English. JonValkenberg--92.194.4.45 (talk) 17:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

btw JV-- your "English" is spot-on. We can wish the rest of WP would be written so well. Hilarleo ^Hey,L.E.O. 16:43, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Statement has been reworked. No explicit personal viewpoints are included in the re-write. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:51, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

David Ownby reference

A single page from a David Ownby text is cited 8 times in the History section, but the title of that text has either never appeared, or has been eaten up by edits. Can someone dig up this reference and properly cite its title and publication info? Steamroller Assault (talk) 18:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I can try. --TheSoundAndTheFury (talk) 15:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Ownby is now properly referenced ottawakungfu (talk) 01:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

External link

• Walking Qigong, The Anti-Cancer Qigong

please start discussing why is it that that article should be added to section external links. see also Guo Lin, Guolin Qigong, Walking Qigong

Austerlitz -- 88.75.195.11 (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In general, external link is not encouraged. In general, some reference to Guo Lin is included. ottawakungfu (talk) 01:53, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Idea for improvement

Would anyone be opposed to a radical clean-up of this article? I have David Palmer's Qigong Fever here, and while it isn't perfect, I think there is much useful content for structuring this article. I will begin adding information from it. --TheSoundAndTheFury (talk) 15:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

• TheSoundAndTheFury, please do so. I read reviews from Palmer's book, it may the best starting point. For now. But consider adding information, not controversial issues (such as those written into the current article). If possible, we (you, I and anybody interested in this theme) should dig up facts/info bridging the present day qigong (from the communist cadres to the "big bucks masters") and what ancient texts refer to as "way of energy" or "work with life energy" (these are references I found in martial arts - not wushu - texts). MikeLousado (talk) 15:34, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Information from David Palmer, David Ownby, Ian Johnson and Nancy Chen plus many others are now referenced. ottawakungfu (talk) 02:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Obviously flawed, biased

Of course, this article should be fair in its assessment of Qigong. If the author(s) took the liberty of inserting criticism and controversy issues into this article, why not insert also the accounts of famed, established Physicists and other Scientists and Physicians who are or have become qigong practitioners? Why give credit or mention to ludicrous claims of paranormal or supra-normal activities and prowess? Why mention charlatans at all? Do we have to remind everybody that Western Medicine has its own count of charlatans, even during the 20th Century? What about psychosis and other qigong-related illnesses, all the while forgetting that psychiatrists and oncologists have their hands full of people who reacted BADLY to conventional treatments and some even died? As I said, a heavily flawed and biased article. From what I have seen and heard from otherwise skeptical (and science oriented) persons, Reiki and Qigong WORK. Period. This article should be as much about Qigong from the perspective of qigong and benefits derived from it, as articles about conventional, western medicine are. Please, improve it. MikeLousado (talk) 15:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

New article tries to maintain a neutral point of view. ottawakungfu (talk) 02:09, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Obviously flawed, biased - part II

At some point in the article, this sentence comes up: "Also known as "qigong deviation" (氣功偏差) among psychiatrists, the condition could cause, in extremis, death through delusions of omnipotence." The sentence quoted above is intended as detrimental, but a simple investigation reveals how flawed it is. Qigong deviation is a Transliteration of mental disturbance caused by qigong practice. According to Chinese medical literature, the term for this is exactly zhuhuo rumo, which literally means "inner fire out of control" or "entering the realm of Mara". This is also a qigong term for patients suffering from mental illnesses.

If one digs deeper, it becomes obvious that this "deviation" is caused, according to Chinese qigong-literature, by misdirected use of Chi. Meaning, the justification for this criticism lies in the badly application of chi/prana. MikeLousado (talk) 19:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

• MikeLousado, did you read all the excellent Wikipedia policies and guidelines? You are free to edit the article to correct it. If you do so with reference to scholarly material, your contributions will be most welcome. Regarding the controversies, it is possible that they currently take up too much of the article. Then, you would be justified in cutting them down, or paraphrasing them. Clearly qigong is not as well accepted as the whole of Western medicine, however, so perhaps the controversies surrounding it - particularly in terms of first principles - may be more. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 14:02, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

• TheSoundAndTheFury, I know policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. Otherwise I wouldn't read anything in it or post anything in it. I, and probably many others, tried to give the author(s) of the article the chance to rewrite it.Now...Qigong, Chi-Kung or even the principles of Reiki, have existed for centuries more than our "Western medicine". By that alone, it deserves adequate treatment, an equal opportunity to be well explained.You say "Clearly qigong is not as well accepted". Based on what do you say "Clearly"? Your standards? The Western standards? Western media?You mentioned controversies surrounding qigong. There are (obviously well documented) thousands and thousands of cases around the world resulting from the application of "Western medicine", from the large scale misuse of antibiotics to the rushed development of vaccines and criminally developed pills (Thalidomide comes to mind). More recently, we have all seen more and more "Dr. Death" cases in which physicians decide by themselves to terminate the life of patients suffering from cancer. Or "suicide assisted deaths". Aren't these facts heavily controversial? Are any of these controversies mentioned in articles about "Western medicine" practices or branches? No.But more than that, qigong practice or Reiki practice or Ayurvedic practices are not intended to be the sole means to treat or help people and especially patients. These practices/alternative medicines are not intended to substitute the, or disprove the quality of, Western medicine.And if we add up the number of people which are practicing Qigong/Reiki/Ayurvedic Medicine, we may get something in the order of millions (no, no source for this number, YET). Or more. And with more and more doctors considering alternatives to current treatments for many ailments (from cancer to pulmonary diseases), and using them as complementary strategies to ward off disease, I believe a proper, honest view of Qigong should be presented here, replacing this article. MikeLousado (talk) 15:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

There aren't really any 'authors' of this article. No one is tending to the page, editing it regularly, and making sure it's in good shape. So, you should roll up your sleeves and start doing that. If you want to rebuild the article, I don't think anyone would object. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 13:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The article remains a neutral point of view. Both the advantage and disadvantage of qigong are included. ottawakungfu (talk) 02:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Major Rewrite on the Subject of Qigong 2010

We are trying to restructure the entire article of qigong to make it more encyclopedic. Here are a summary and rationale for the changes we have made (this section will be updated periodically)

• Stage One - Modified the introduction to recognize that Chinese qigong arise from different elements within Chinese society and encompass different methods. (May, 2010)
• Stage Two - We have edited the History of qigong to cover ancient history, provide a cultural context for the practice. We have also made the history more of a narrative and minimize the speculations and conclusions that are found in the previous versions. Expand history to include the introduction of qigong to the West(May, 2010)
• Stage Three - Re-organize and rewrite the Theory of Qigong. The section now includes the basic theory of meridians, yin yang,, 5 elements, extraordinary powers are addressed as well as the bridge towards qigong tradition and science. (June, 2010)
• Stage Four - Create a new section: "Practice" to provide an overview of the various forms of qigong. (June, 2010)
• Stage Five - rework Uses - rename to Applications Add more references. (June, 2010)
• Stage Six - Criticisms and controversies section re-written. External links, footnotes incorporated as inline citation. (June, 2010)
• Stage Seven - Comments and criticisms on the Talk page is addressed. (June, 2010)

Revision completed. Please keep the article in a neutral point of view! ottawakungfu (talk) 03:39, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Just want to say THANK YOU for the fabulously improved article. The difference is like night and day. Much appreciated!! Anahata9 (talk) 08:53, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

This article should be deleted

The problems with this article are not repairable. The trouble is in the concept and beliefs of those who advocate Qi Gong.

Quoted from the discussion thread above. "...This article should be as much about Qigong from the perspective of qigong and benefits derived from it, as articles about conventional, western medicine are...." MikeLousado;

"...skeptics who for some reason cannot grasp the concept that 'Qi gong' requires no 'proving' as it proves it self -- go somewhere else! You are not needed...." author unclear.

Understand what those beliefs are. If you wave your arms and legs in unison with a small group of people you command powerful supernatural forces. It doesn't matter how you state it that is the belief of this system.

The concept is nonsense and borderline psychotic. But these people function normally except for these strange beliefs. They claim and do experience psychiatric symptoms they understand as Qi Gong working.

VisionAndPsychosis.Net explained why this happens in 2003. The meditating moving people form an engine for Subliminal Distraction exposure. There is no magic or Chee involved.

Subliminal Distraction, a normal feature in our physiology of sight, was discovered to cause mental breaks for office workers forty years ago. The cubicle was designed to deal with the phenomenon by 1968. This exposure will alter your ability to think and reason critically . That's why there are the claims of supernatural outcomes from performing this exercise.

Anyone with full mental capability would not make such claims. Long term users of Qi Gong have altered mental states so that they can believe this nonsense.

There is no way to resolve these two points at issue. One claims supernaturally acquired benefits and the other says the claimed benefits are nonexistent and an expected outcome from performing this at-risk activity.

An example of these outcomes can be see in the experience of 14 Ontario schools where students have bizarre symptoms after Wi-Fi was installed and they began to use laptop computers anywhere they wanted to sit rather than observe Cubicle Level Protection while using the computers. Students have headaches, dizziness, trouble sleeping, memory loss, and strange skin sensations. Symptoms disappear on weekends and school vacations. The experience shows the wide range of symptoms SD exposure can cause. When Qi Gong users begin to have symptoms they understand it is Qi Gong working.(The Cubicle solved this exposure problem when mental breaks appeared in business offices in the 1960's.)

There are examples of other outcomes from Subliminal Distraction exposure at VisionAndPsychosis.Net. I am the copyright holder for that site.

24.96.50.139 (talk) 03:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)L K Tucker

Notability exists, regardless of your research. Also, your explanation (still) completely fails to take into account cases where the symptoms occur in those who have only ever practiced qigong outside of a group setting. K2709 (talk) 08:35, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

REPLY on 6/21/2011 out of sequence with talk page history. Subliminal Distraction exposure can happen anywhere. The Landmark Education mental breaks show that classrooms can cause limited SD exposure. The people who perform Qi Gong alone have SD exposure at another place then associate the symptoms of SD exposure with Qi Gong because of their altered belief system that Qi Gong is effective. With Culture Bound Syndromes ethnic based mental events are understood and believed to be caused by something in the local culture. Ghost Sickness was believed to be caused by too close contact with the dead. Too-small single-room living arrangements of Native Americans allowed SD exposure. Examination of the Startle Matching Behaviors show the believed "cultural mental events" actually cross cultural and ethnic boundaries. They are only named locally because when a SD caused mental events happens it is experienced in terms of local culture. The belief in the efficacy of Qi Gong is an unrecognized mental disorder. L K Tucker 24.96.50.245 (talk) 17:38, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Hilarious joke article

I just have to say this article is hilarious. I've never seen such a credulous article on Wikipedia(!) that so fully incorporates the mystical and supernatural beliefs of a religion as the facts of its "science" and history.

Breathing and exercises are excellent stuff for overall wellness, but the quackery in this article is best described as evil. 174.99.110.64 (talk) 07:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion is noted. The article aims to be informative from a neutral point of view. Information from both supporters and skeptics of qigong is provided. ottawakungfu (talk) 03:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

This article is enormously biased

Just overflew this, have to agree with everyone who thinks that this article isn't nearly neutral enough. This whole thing is slanted hideously in favour of qi gong and doesn't even bother concealing that. I'd fix it up myself, but since I know from experience that this kind of thing always ends up being resolved in favour of the "wiki-squatter" who thinks he owns the article, I'm not even going to bother. I just hope a moderator or someone else in charge sees this soon, this whole article is an enormous embarrassment for Wikipedia. --188.98.180.151 (talk) 02:42, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

People like you need to spend a couple of hours digging through Google books for the information you believe should be added to the article. Be constructive. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 02:09, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Static qigong and Yiquan

Yiquan is not Qigong!

Raed description about Yiquan on Wikipedia:

"Yiquan is essentially formless, containing no fixed sets of fighting movements or techniques. Instead, focus is put on developing one's natural movement and fighting abilities through a system of training methods and concepts, working to improve the perception of one's body, its movement, and of force. Yiquan is also set apart from other eastern martial arts in that traditional concepts like qi, meridians, dantian etc., are omitted, the reason being that understanding one's true nature happens in the present, and that preconceptions block this process." Part of Yiquan caled ZhangZhuang viewed from the outside reminds Qigong, but traditional concepts like qi, meridians, dantian etc., are omitted, since 1938. The Link:

"Yiquan, a Chinese martial art derived from xingyiquan, is a strong proponent of stance training.[93] " 

suggests something else.

LG Ch. Ratka — Preceding unsigned comment added by CKRatka (talk • contribs) 10:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

MaWangDui Silk Scroll

Before the four official forms of "energy-work" or QiGong existed (as approved of by the government of China, there was Dao Yin, as internal martial arts was known. The Silk Scroll found at MaWangDui contains 44 forms of Dao Yin. I have studied "the Five Animal Frolics"; "the Eight Pieces of Brocade"; "the Six Healing Sounds"; and looked into "the Yijinjing". I find no resemblence between these and my poster of the MaWangDui DaoYin positions. The comment that they are similar leads many not to look for themselves. Many books are written that dwell on the way energy flows through the human body. "Manufactured History" is the Chinese way of describing the effect of getting lost in the commentary about a topic, or in mysticism related to a part of Chinese culture. One never hears a simple, "no" or a "just practice". One is gotten lost in "manufactured History". Some teachers deal with questions that are seen as disrespectful, doubting in their nature in this way. Tales of immortality are another form of "Manufactured History". America has a bit of it rubbing off from "experts" who write books that lose the point. Often a simple video or DVD will teach all one needs to know for the first three years of practice. After a foundation is built, then respectfully ask a question. Teachers need not "prove" a point. My point with this long winded paragraph is that a Western "Expert" has discouraged many from looking for themselves at a piece of archeology from 168 B.C. that cannot be doubted in favor of a modern source. Ward68 (talk) 21:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Mental Health

One should know, that there not any actual evidence to support the claim that qigong can be a cause of psychosis, or any other mental disorder. That someone write a book about it, does not mean that the person deliver actual evidence. Observation followed by speculation is not evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.117.218.140 (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Re-write

I've tagged this article with a few maintenance tags. I also intend - with a bit of help - to completely re-write it. This entire subject needs to be a approached from a reliable scientific perspective. The Cavalry (Message me) 15:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Please Consider the Following Text as you Re-write:

Qigong Overview

What is Qigong? Qigong or chi kung (气功) is a practice of aligning breath, movement, and awareness for exercise, healing, and meditation. With roots in Chinese medicine, martial arts, and philosophy, qigong is traditionally viewed as a practice to balance qi (chi) or intrinsic life energy. Typically a qigong practice involves steady breathing, coordinated with slow, stylized repetition of fluid movement, and a calm mindful state. Qigong is now practiced throughout China and worldwide, and is considered by some to be exercise, and by others to be a type of alternative medicine or meditative practice. From a spiritual perspective qigong is believed to help develop human potential and to awaken one to one's true nature.

Etymology: Qigong (氣功 or 气功) is an English translation for two Chinese characters:

qì (氣 or 气) = breath, intrinsic life energy, vital force

gong (功) = mastery, practice, merit, achievement

Qigong as Exercise: Qigong, as a form of gentle exercise (Wu Gong), is composed of movements that are typically repeated, strengthening and stretching the body, increasing fluid movement (blood, synovial, and lymph), enhancing balance, and building awareness of how the body moves through space.

Qigong as a Healing Art: Qigong, as a healing art (Yi Gong), is an aspect of Chinese medicine that focuses on prevention and self-healing, balancing the body's energy meridians and enhancing the intrinsic capacity of the body to heal.

Qigong as Meditation and Spiritual Practice: Qigong, as meditation and spiritual practice (Fo Gong, Tao Gong), is a means to still the mind and enter a state of consciousness that brings serenity, clarity, and bliss. Many practitioners find qigong, with its gentle focused movement, to be more accessible than seated meditation.

External Qi Healing: Qigong includes a sophisticated system of health assessment and non-contact treatment (Wai Qi Zhi Liao), whereby a practitioner guides energy through his or her own body into the body of another person being treated for a medical condition.

Benefits of Qigong: Regular practice of qigong is purported to enhance health and well-being with many benefits: 1) vibrant health and longevity, along with healing of specific illnesses such as cancer and heart disease; 2) clear and tranquil mind; 3) deep, restorative sleep; 4) strong energy, including sexual vitality and fertility; 5) good circulation; 6) clear skin; 7) happy attitude; 8) efficient metabolism, including digestion, hair growth, and nail growth; 9) balanced physiology, including breath, heart rate, blood pressure, and hormone levels; 10) bright eyes; 11) strong intuition and creativity; and 12) high spiritual awareness.

Some Web Resources:

• Chi Center, Petaluma, CA (http://www.chicenter.com)

• Energy Arts, Fairfax, CA (http://www.energyarts.com)

• Pangu Shengong, San Francisco, CA (http://www.pangu.org/english)

• Radiant Lotus Qigong, Kahuna Valley, HI (http://www.radiantlotusqigong.com)

• Qigong Institute, Los Altos, CA (http://www.qigonginstitute.org)

• Qigong Research and Practice Center, Nederland, CO (http://www.qigonghealing.com)

Pmrich (talk) 14:50, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Those are some interesting claims, but they are manifestly untrue: "healing... cancer and heart disease" "[increasing] sexual vitality, fertility, circulation"... All those claims are as true as the Earth is flat. The claims that qigong brings a "strong intuition and creativity" is unprovable, and likewise, the claims that it promotes an "efficient metabolism, including digestion, hair growth, and nail growth... breath, heart rate, blood pressure, and hormone levels" are at best misleading. The web resources are useful, but I was hoping we could stick to scientific or medical sources, rather than qigong ones. The Cavalry (Message me) 23:46, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Some References for Re-write

Placed here to be accessible, but out of way of rewrite discussion.

Scientific Review

Jahnke R, Larkey L, Rogers C, Etnier J, Lin F. 2010. A comprehensive review of health benefits of qigong and tai chi. American Journal of Health Promotion, 24(6), e1-e25.

Concise Summary: This review examines the evidence for achieving outcomes from randomized controlled trials (RCTs) concerning psychological and physiological benefits of Qigong and Tai Chi. Seventy-seven articles met inclusion criteria. Results demonstrated consistent, significant results for nine categories of health benefits: bone density (n = 4), cardiopulmonary effects (n = 19), physical function (n = 16), falls and related risk factors (n = 23), quality of life (n = 17), self-efficacy (n = 8), patient-reported outcomes (n = 13), psychological symptoms (n = 27), and immune function (n = 6).

Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20594090

Manuscript: http://www.instituteofintegralqigongandtaichi.org/pdfs/ReviewRJLL0509.pdf

Qigong and Energy Medicine Database: http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/database.php

Some References to Consider

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Brismee, J., Paige, R. L., Chyu, M., Boatright, J. D., Hagar, J. M., McCaleb, J. A., et al. (2007). Group and home-based tai chi in elderly subjects with knee osteoarthritis: A randomized controlled trial. Clinical Rehabilitation, 21(2), 99-111.

Burini, D., Farabollini, B., Iacucci, S., Rimatori, C., Riccardi, G., Capecci, M., et al. (2006). A randomized controlled cross-over trial of aerobic training versus qigong in advanced parkinson's disease. Europa Medicophysica, 42(3), 231-8.

Chan, K., Qin, L., Lau, M., Woo, J., Au, S., Choy, W., et al. (2004). A randomized, prospective study of the effects of tai chi chun exercise on bone mineral density in postmenopausal women. Archives of Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation, 85(5), 717-22.

Channer, K. S., Barrow, D., Barrow, R., Osborne, M., & Ives, G. (1996). Changes in haemodynamic parameters following tai chi chuan and aerobic exercise in patients recovering from acute myocardial infarction. Postgraduate Medical Journal, 72(848), 349- 51.

Chen, H. H., Yeh, M. L., & Lee, F. Y. (2006). The effects of baduanjin qigong in the prevention of bone loss for middle-aged women. The Ameriacn Journal of Chinese Medicine, 34(5), 741-747.

Chen, K., & Yeung, R. (2002). A review of qigong therapy for cancer treatment. Journal of International Society of Life Information Science, 20(2), 532-542.

Cheng, T. (2006). Tai chi: The chinese ancient wisdom of an ideal exercise for cardiac patients. International Journal of Cardiology, 117, 293-295.

Cheung, B. M. Y., Lo, J. L. F., Fong, D. Y. T., Chan, M. Y., Wong, S. H. T., Wong, V. C. W., et al. (2005). Randomised controlled trial of qigong in the treatment of mild essential hypertension. Journal of Human Hypertension, 19(9), 697-704.

Chodzko-Zajko, W., Jahnke, R. and Working Group. (2005). National Expert Meeting on Qi Gong and Tai Chi: Consensus Report. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, November 14-16. (Larkey, L.K: Working/Writing Group member).

Choi, J. H., Moon, J., & Song, R. (2005). Effects of sun-style tai chi exercise on physical fitness and fall prevention in fall-prone older adults. Journal of Advanced Nursing, 51(2), 150-7.

Chou, K., Lee, P. W. H., Yu, E. C. S., Macfarlane, D., Cheng, Y., Chan, S. S. C., et al. (2004). Effect of tai chi on depressive symptoms amongst chinese older patients with depressive disorders: A randomized clinical trial. International Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry, 19(11), 1105-7.

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Faber, M. J., Bosscher, R. J., Chin A Paw, M. J., & van Wieringen, P. C. (2006). Effects of exercise programs on falls and mobility in frail and pre-frail older adults: A multicenter randomized controlled trial. Archives of Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation, 87(7), 885-96.

Fransen, M., Nairn, L., Winstanley, J., Lam, P., & Edmonds, J. (2007). Physical activity for osteoarthritis management: A randomized controlled clinical trial evaluating hydrotherapy or tai chi classes. Arthritis & Rheumatism, 57(3), 407-14.

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Galantino, M. L., Shepard, K., Krafft, L., Laperriere, A., Ducette, J., Sorbello, A., et al. (2005). The effect of group aerobic exercise and t'ai chi on functional outcomes and quality of life for persons living with acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine, 11(6), 1085-92.

Gatts, S. K., & Woollacott, M. H. (2006). Neural mechanisms underlying balance improvement with short term tai chi training. Aging-Clinical & Experimental Research, 18(1), 7-19.

Gemmell, C., & Leathem, J. M. (2006). A study investigating the effects of tai chi chuan: Individuals with traumatic brain injury compared to controls. Brain Injury, 20(2), 151-156.

Greenspan, A. I., Wolf, S. L., Kelley, M. E., O'Grady, M., Greenspan, A. I., Wolf, S. L., et al. (2007). Tai chi and perceived health status in older adults who are transitionally frail: A randomized controlled trial. Physical Therapy, 87(5), 525-35.

Hammond, A., & Freeman, K. (2006). Community patient education and exercise for people with fibromyalgia: A parallel group randomized controlled trial. Clinical Rehabilitation, 20(10), 835-46.

Hart, J., Kanner, H., Gilboa-Mayo, R., Haroeh-Peer, O., Rozenthul-Sorokin, N., & Eldar, R. (2004). Tai chi chuan practice in community-dwelling persons after stroke. International Journal of Rehabilitation Research, 27(4), 303-4.

Hartman, C. A., Manos, T. M., Winter, C., Hartman, D. M., Li, B., & Smith, J. C. (2000). Effects of T'ai chi training on function and quality of life indicators in older adults with osteoarthritis. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 48(12), 1553-9.

Hass, C. J., Gregor, R. J., Waddell, D. E., Oliver, A., Smith, D. W., Fleming, R. P., et al. (2004). The influence of tai chi training on the center of pressure trajectory during gait initiation in older adults. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 85(10), 1593-1598.

Hogan, M. (2005). Physical and cognitive activity and exercise for older adults: A review. International Journal of Aging & Human Development, 60(2), 95-126.

Irwin, M. R., Olmstead, R., & Oxman, M. N. (2007). Augmenting immune responses to varicella zoster virus in older adults: A randomized, controlled trial of tai chi. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 55(4), 511-7.

Irwin, M. R., Pike, J. L., Cole, J. C., & Oxman, M. N. (2003). Effects of a behavioral intervention, tai chi chih, on varicella-zoster virus specific immunity and health functioning in older adults. Psychosomatic Medicine, 65(5), 824-30.

Irwin, M., Pike, J., & Oxman, M. (2004). Shingles immunity and health functioning in the elderly: Tai chi chih as a behavioral treatment. Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, 1(3), 223-232.

Jahnke, R. (2002). The healing promise of qi: Creating extraordinary wellness through qigong and tai chi. Chicago, Il: Contemporary Books.

Jin, P. (1992). Efficacy of tai chi, brisk walking, meditation, and reading in reducing mental and emotional stress. Journal of Psychosomatic Research, 36(4), 361-370.

Jones, B. M. (2001). Changes in cytokine production in healthy subjects practicing guolin qigong: A pilot study. BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine, 1(8), September 29, 2008.

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Lee, M. S., Jeong, S. M., Kim, Y. K., Park, K. W., Lee, M. S., Ryu, H., et al. (2003). Qi-training enhances respiratory burst function and adhesive capacity of neutrophils in young adults: A preliminary study. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 31(1), 141-148.

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Lee, M. S., Pittler, M. H., Taylor-Piliae, R. E., & Ernst, E. (2007). Tai chi for cardiovascular disease and its risk factors: A systematic review. Journal of Hypertension, 25(9), 1974-5.

Lee, M. S., Lee, M. S., Choi, E. S., & Chung, H. T. (2003). Effects of qigong on blood pressure, blood pressure determinants and ventilatory function in middle-aged patients with essential hypertension. The American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 31(3), 489-497.

Lee, M. S., Lee, M. S., Kim, H. J., & Choi, E. S. (2004). Effects of qigong on blood pressure, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol and other lipid levels in essential hypertension patients. International Journal of Neuroscience, 114, 777-786.

Lee, M. S., Lim, H. J., & Lee, M. S. (2004). Impact of qigong exercise on self-efficacy and other cognitive perceptual variables in patients with essential hypertension. The Journal of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine., 10(4), 675-680.

Lee, M., Soo Lee, M., Kim, H., & Moon, S. (2003). Qigong reduced blood pressure and catecholamine levels of patients with essential hypertension. International Journal of Neuroscience, 113(12), 1691.

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Li, F., Harmer, P., Fisher, K. J., & McAuley, E. (2004). Tai chi: Improving functional balance and predicting subsequent falls in older persons. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 36(12), 2046-2052.

Li, F., Harmer, P., Fisher, K. J., McAuley, E., Chaumeton, N., Eckstrom, E., et al. (2005). Tai chi and fall reductions in older adults: A randomized controlled trial. Journals of Gerontology.Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences, 60A(2), 187-194.

Li, F., Harmer, P., McAuley, E., Duncan, T. E., Duncan, S. C., Chaumeton, N., et al. (2001). An evaluation of the effects of tai chi exercise on physical function among older persons: A randomized contolled trial. Annals of Behavioral Medicine, 23(2), 139-46.

Li, F., Harmer, P., McAuley, E., Fisher, K. J., Duncan, T. E., & Duncan, S. C. (2001). Tai chi, self-efficacy, and physical function in the elderly. Prevention Science, 2(4), 229-39.

Li, F., Fisher, K. J., Harmer, P., Irbe, D., Tearse, R. G., & Weimer, C. (2004). Tai chi and self- rated quality of sleep and daytime sleepiness in older adults: A randomized controlled trial. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 52(6), 892-900.

Li, F., Fisher, K. J., Harmer, P., & McAuley, E. (2002). Delineating the impact of tai chi training on physical function among the elderly. American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 23(2 Suppl), 92-7.

Li, J. X., Hong, Y., & Chan, K. M. (2001). Tai chi: Physiological characteristics and beneficial effects on health. British Journal of Sports Medicine, 35(3), 148-56.

Li, Z. Q., & Shen, Q. (1995). The impact of the performance of wu's tai chi chuan on the activity of natural killer cells in peripheral blood in the elderly. Chinese Journal of Sports Medicine, (14), 53-56.

Maciaszek, J., Osiski, W., Szeklicki, R., & Stemplewski, R. (2007). Effect of tai chi on body balance: Randomized controlled trial in men with osteopenia or osteoporosis. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 35(1), 1-9.

Maddalozzo, G. F., & Snow, C. M. (2000). High intensity resistance training: Effects on bone in older men and women. Calcified Tissue International, 66(6), 399-404.

Mannerkorpi, K., Arndorw, M., Mannerkorpi, K., & Arndorw, M. (2004). Efficacy and feasibility of a combination of body awareness therapy and qigong in patients with fibromyalgia: A pilot study. Journal of Rehabilitation Medicine, 36(6), 279-81.

Mansky, P., Sannes, T., Wallerstedt, D., Ge, A., Ryan, M., Johnson, L. L., et al. (2006). Tai chi chuan: Mind-body practice or exercise intervention? studying the benefit for cancer survivors. Integrative Cancer Therapies, 5(3), 192-201.

Manzaneque, J. M., Vera, F. M., Maldonado, E. F., Carranque, G., Cubero, V. M., Morell, M., et al. (2004). Assessment of immunological parameters following a qigong training program. Medical Science Monitor, 10(6), CR264-70.

Matsuda, S., Martin, D., & Yu, T. (2005). Ancient exercise for modern rehab: Tai chi promotes wellness and fitness among a wide range of patients. Rehab Management: The Interdisciplinary Journal of Rehabilitation, 18(2), 24-27.

McGibbon, C. A., Krebs, D. E., Parker, S. W., Scarborough, D. M., Wayne, P. M., & Wolf, S. L. (2005). Tai chi and vestibular rehabilitation improve vestibulopathic gait via different neuromuscular mechanisms: Preliminary report. BMC Neurology, 5(1), 3.

McGibbon, C. A., Krebs, D. E., Wolf, S. L., Wayne, P. M., Scarborough, D. M., & Parker, S. W. (2004). Tai chi and vestibular rehabilitation effects on gaze and whole-body stability. Journal of Vestibular Research, 14(6), 467-78.

Morales, F. J., Martinez, A., Mendez, M., Agarrado, A., Ortega, F., Fernandez-Guerra, J., et al. (1999). A shuttle walk test for assessment of functional capacity in chronic heart failure. American Heart Journal, 138, 291-298.

Motivala, S. J., Sollers, J., Thayer, J., & Irwin, M. R. (2006). Tai chi chih acutely decreases sympathetic nervous system activity in older adults. Journals of Gerontology Series A- Biological Sciences & Medical Sciences, 61(11), 1177-80.

Mustian, K. M., Katula, J. A., Gill, D. L., Roscoe, J. A., Lang, D., & Murphy, K. (2004). Tai chi chuan, health-related quality of life and self-esteem: A randomized trial with breast cancer survivors. Supportive Care in Cancer, 12(12), 871-6.

Mustian, K. M., Katula, J. A., & Zhao, H. (2006). A pilot study to assess the influence of tai chi chuan on functional capacity among breast cancer survivors. The Journal of Supportive Oncology, 4(3), 139-45.

Nowalk, M. P., Prendergast, J. M., Bayles, C. M., D'Amico, F. J., & Colvin, G. C. (2001). A randomized trial of exercise programs among older individuals living in two long-term care facilities: The FallsFREE program. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 49(7), 859- 65.

Orr, R., Tsang, T., Lam, P., Comino, E., & Singh, M. F. (2006). Mobility impairment in type 2 diabetes: Association with muscle power and effect of tai chi intervention. Diabetes Care, 29(9), 2120-2.

Pippa, L., Manzoli, L., Corti, I., Congedo, G., Romanazzi, L., & Parruti, G. (2007). Functional capacity after traditional chinese medicine (qi gong) training in patients with chronic atrial fibrillation: A randomized controlled trial. Preventive Cardiology, 10(1), 22-5.

Rogers, C. E., Larkey, L. K., & Keller, C. (2009). A review of clinical trials of tai chi and qigong in older adults. Western Journal of Nursing Research, 31(2), 245-279.

Ryu, H., Jun, C. D., Lee, B. S., Choi, B. M., Kim, H. M., & Chung, H. T. (1995). Effects of qigong training on proportions of T lymphocyte subsets in human peripheral blood. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 23(1), 27-36.

Ryu, H., Mo, H. Y., Mo, G. D., Choi, B. M., Jun, C. D., Seo, C. M., et al. (1995). Delayed cutaneous hypersensitivity reactions in qigong (chun do sun bup) trainees by multitest cell mediated immunity. American Journal of Chinese, 23(2), 139-144.

Sancier, K. M. (1996). Medical applications of qigong. Alternative Therapies, 2(1), 40-46. Sancier, K. M. (1999). Therapeutic benefits of qigong exercises in combination with drugs. Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, 5(4), 383-389.

Sancier, K. M., & Hu, B. (1991). Medical applications of qigong and emitted qi on humans, animals, cell cultures, and plants. American Journal of Acupuncture, 19(4), 367-377.

Sattin, R. W. (1992). Falls among older persons: A public health perspective. Annual Review of Public Health, 13(1), 489-508.

Sattin, R. W., Easley, K. A., Wolf, S. L., Chen, Y., & Kutner, M. H. (2005). Reduction in fear of falling through intense tai chi exercise training in older, transitionally frail adults. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 53(7), 1168-1178.

Shen, C., Williams, J. S., Chyu, M., Paige, R. L., Stephens, A. L., Chauncey, K. B., et al. (2007). Comparison of the effects of tai chi and resistance training on bone metabolism in the elderly: A feasibility study. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 35(3), 369-81.

Song, R., Lee, E., Lam, P., & Bae, S. (2003). Effects of tai chi exercise on pain, balance, muscle strength, and perceived difficulties in physical functioning in older women with osteoarthritis: A randomized clinical trial. Journal of Rheumatology, 30(9), 2039-44.

Song, R., Lee, E., Lam, P., & Bae, S. (2007). Effects of a sun-style tai chi exercise on arthritic symptoms, motivation and the performance of health behaviors in women with osteoarthritis. Daehan Ganho Haghoeji, 37(2), 249-56.

Spirduso, W. W., Francis, K. L., & MacRae, P. G. (2005). Physical dimensions of aging (2nd ed.). Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.

Stenlund, T., Lindstrom, B., Granlund, M., & Burell, G. (2005). Cardiac rehabilitation for the elderly: Qi gong and group discussions. European Journal of Cardiovascular Prevention & Rehabilitation, 12(1), 5-11.

Sun, X. S., Xu, Y. G., & Xia, Y. J. (1989). Determination of e-rosette-forming lymphocyte in aged subjects with tai ji quan exercise. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 10(3), 217- 219.

Taylor-Piliae, R. E., & Froelicher, E. S. (2004). The effectiveness of tai chi exercise in improving aerobic capacity: A meta-analysis. Journal of Cardiovascular Nursing, 19(1), 48- 57.

Taylor-Piliae, R. E., & Haskell, W. L. (2007). Tai chi exercise and stroke rehabilitation. Topics in Stroke Rehabilitation, 14(4), 9-22.

Thomas, G. N., Hong, A. W. L., Tomlinson, B., Lau, E., Lam, C. W. K., Sanderson, J. E., et al. (2005). Effects of tai chi and resistance training on cardiovascular risk factors in elderly chinese subjects: A 12-month longitudinal, randomized, controlled intervention study. Clinical Endocrinology, 63(6), 663-9.

Tsai, J., Wang, W., Chan, P., Lin, L., Wang, C., Tomlinson, B., et al. (2003). The beneficial effects of tai chi chuan on blood pressure and lipid profile and anxiety in a randomized controlled trial. The Journal of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine., 9(5), 747-754.

Tsang, H. W. H., Fung, K. M. T., Chan, A. S. M., Lee, G., & Chan, F. (2006). Effect of a qigong exercise programme on elderly with depression. International Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry, 21(9), 890-7.

Tsang, H. W. H., Mok, C. K., Yeung, Y. T. A., & Chan, S. Y. C. (2003). The effect of qigong on general and psychosocial health of elderly with chronic physical illnesses: A randomized clinical trial. International Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry, 18(5), 441-9.

Tsang, T., Orr, R., Lam, P., Comino, E.,J., & Singh, M. F. (2007). Health benefits of tai chi for older patients with type 2 diabetes: The "move it for diabetes study"- A randomized controlled trial. Clinical Interventions in Aging, 2(3), 429-439.

Verhagen, A. P., Immink, M., van der Meulen, A., & Bierma-Zeinstra, S. M. A. (2004). The efficacy of tai chi chuan in older adults: A systematic review. Family Practice, 21(1), 107- 13.

Voukelatos, A., Cumming, R. G., Lord, S. R., & Rissel, C. (2007). A randomized, controlled trial of tai chi for the prevention of falls: The central sydney tai chi trial. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 55(8), 1185-91.

Wang, C., Roubenoff, R., Lau, J., Kalish, R., Schmid, C. H., Tighiouart, H., et al. (2005). Effect of tai chi in adults with rheumatoid arthritis. Rheumatology, 44(5), 685-7.

Wang, C., Collet, J. P., & Lau, J. (2004). The effect of tai chi on health outcomes in patients with chronic conditions: A systematic review.[see comment]. Archives of Internal Medicine, 164(5), 493-501.

Wayne, P. M., Kiel, D. P., Krebs, D. E., Davis, R. B., Savetsky-German, J., Connelly, M., et al. (2007). The effects of tai chi on bone mineral density in postmenopausal women: A systematic review. Archives of Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation, 88(5), 673-80.

Wayne, P. M., Krebs, D. E., Wolf, S. L., Gill-Body, K. M., Scarborough, D., McGibbon, C. A., et al. (2004). Can tai chi improve vestibulopathic postural control? Archives of Physical and Medicine & Rehabilitation, 85, 142-152.

Drs R. Jahnke and L. Larkey - A Comprehensive Review of Health Benefits of Qigong and Tai Chi – accepted with revisions, by 52 The Am. Journal of Health Promotion. Do not circulate without the direct permission of the lead author.

Wenneberg, S., Gunnarsson, L., & Ahlstrom, G. (2004). Using a novel exercise programme for patients with muscular dystrophy. part II: A quantitative study. Disability and Rehabilitation, 26(10), 595-602.

Winsmann, F. (2005). The effect of tai chi chuan meditation on dissociation in a group of veterans. (Dissertation, Fielding Graduate University). Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology, 147.

Wolf, S. L., Barnhart, H. X., Ellison, G. L., & Coogler, C. E. (1997). The effect of tai chi quan and computerized balance training on postural stability in older subjects. atlanta FICSIT group. frailty and injuries: Cooperative studies on intervention techniques. Physical Therapy, 77(4), 371-81.

Wolf, S. L., Coogler, C., & Xu, T. (1997). Exploring the basis for tai chi chuan as a therapeutic exercise approach. Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, 78(8), 886-92.

Wolf, S. L., O'Grady, M., Easley, K. A., Guo, Y., Kressig, R. W., & Kutner, M. (2006). The influence of intense tai chi training on physical performance and hemodynamic outcomes in transitionally frail, older adults. Journals of Gerontology Series A-Biological Sciences & Medical Sciences, 61(2), 184-189.

Wolf, S. L., Sattin, R. W., Kutner, M., O'Grady, M., Greenspan, A. I., & Gregor, R. J. (2003a). Intense tai chi exercise training and fall occurrences in older, transitionally frail adults: A randomized, controlled trial... includes commentary by lavery L and studenski S. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 51(12), 1693-701, 1804-5.

Wolf, S. L., Barnhart, H. X., Kutner, N. G., McNeely, E., Coogler, C., Xu, T., et al. (2003b). Selected as the best paper in the 1990s: Reducing frailty and falls in older persons: An investigation of tai chi and computerized balance training. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 51(12), 1794-803.

Woo, J., Hong, A., Lau, E., & Lynn, H. (2007). A randomised controlled trial of tai chi and resistance exercise on bone health, muscle strength and balance in community-living elderly people. Age & Ageing, 36(3), 262-8.

World Health Organization. (2002). Active ageing: A policy framework. Second World Assembly on Ageing, Madrid, Spain.

Xu, S. W., & Wang, W. J. (1986). A study of the effects of tai ji quan on endocrinology. Chinese Journal of Sports Medicine, 5, 150-151.

Yang, Y., Verkuilen, J., Rosengren, K. S., Mariani, R. A., Reed, M., Grubisich, S. A., et al. (2007). Effects of a taiji and qigong intervention on the antibody response to influenza vaccine in older adults. American Journal of Chinese Medicine, 35(4), 597-607.

Yeh, G. Y., Wood, M. J., Lorell, B. H., Stevenson, L. W., Eisenberg, D. M., Wayne, P. M., et al. (2004). Effects of tai chi mind-body movement therapy on functional status and exercise capacity in patients with chronic heart failure: A randomized controlled trial. American Journal of Medicine, 117(8), 541-8.

Young, D. R., Appel, L. J., Jee, S., & Miller, E. R.,3rd. (1999). The effects of aerobic exercise and tai chi on blood pressure in older people: Results of a randomized trial. Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, 47(3), 277-84.

Zhang, G. D. (1990). The impacts of 48-form tai chi chuan and yi qi yang fei gong on the serum levels of IgG, gM, IgA, and IgE in human. Journal of Beijing Institute of Physical Education, 4, 12-14.

Zhang, J., IshikawaTakata, K., Yamazaki, H., Morita, T., & Ohta, T. (2006). The effects of tai chi chuan on physiological function and fear of falling in the less robust elderly: An intervention study for preventing falls. Archives of Gerontology and Geriatrics, 42(2), 107- 116.

Zugck, C., Kruger, C., & Durr, S. (2000). Is the 6 minute walk test a reliable substitute for peak oxygen uptake in patients with dialated cardiomyopathy? European Heart Journal, 21, 540- 549.

Some Web Resources

• Canada Qigong Research Society (http://canadaqigong.org)

• Chi Center, Petaluma, CA (http://www.chicenter.com)

• Energy Arts, Fairfax, CA (http://www.energyarts.com)

• Literati Tradition, YeYoung Culture Studies (http://www.literati-tradition.com/qi_gong_and_tai_chi.html)

• Pangu Shengong, San Francisco, CA (http://www.pangu.org/english)

• Radiant Lotus Qigong, Kahuna Valley, HI (http://www.radiantlotusqigong.com)

• Qigong Institute, Los Altos, CA (http://www.qigonginstitute.org)

• Qigong Research and Practice Center, Nederland, CO (http://www.qigonghealing.com)

• Qigong Research Society, Mt Laurel, NJ (http://www.qigongresearchsociety.com)

• Qigong T'ai chi ch'uan Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi_chuan)

• Qigong Wikipedia Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong)

• Wuji Productions (http://www.wujiproductions.com)

The Literati Tradition website is especially useful for well written background and history of qigong (scholarly, concise, and well referenced). The Qigong Institute website has access to peer-reviewed references and other resources. Pmrich (talk) 12:47, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Some News about Qigong (from Qigong Institute)

The Harvard Health Review: The Harvard Health Review calls Tai Chi "medication in motion" and describes how tai chi when combined with standard treatment is helpful for a range of conditions including arthritis, low bone density, breast cancer, heart disease, heart failure, hypertension, Parkinson's disease, sleep problems, and stroke. Harvard Medical School, Harvard Health Publications, May, 2009 (http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2009/May/The-health-benefits-of-tai-chi)

Wall Street Journal: 'Alternative' Medicine Is Mainstream - The evidence is mounting that diet and lifestyle (including practices such as Qigong, Tai Chi, and Yoga) are the best cures for our worst afflictions. Wall Street Journal, January 9, 2009 (http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/WSJ010909.pdf)

Time Magazine: "Tai Chi is the perfect exercise". Time Magazine July 31, 2002 (http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/TimeMag31Jul02.pdf)

New York Times: "The face of exercise is changing in America. Instead of relentlessly pursuing a sculptured physique, people are chasing longevity, stress reduction and improved health through mind-body practices like qigong. The realm of working out has shifted from people just wanting to build bulk and lean, toned muscles to them understanding that the inner health of the body is just as important as the outer health." New York Times April 5, 2007 (http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/NYTimes5Apr07.pdf)

Wall Street Journal: The Next Yoga: a Sweat-Free Workout 
Giving Up on Perfect Pecs, Boomers Embrace Qigong -- Is Qigong Tiger Wood's Secret Weapon? Wall Street Journal May 13, 2003 (http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/WSJournal13May03.pdf)

Los Angeles Times: A new study published in the Journal of the American Geriatric Society describes the "striking immunity-boosting effect" of Tai Chi, the most well-known moving form of Qigong. Tai Chi "builds aerobic conditioning. It relaxes the body's response to stress, which tends to intensify as people age. And it increases the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain". Los Angeles Times April 24, 2007 (http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/LATimes24Apr07.pdf)

US News and World Report: "Tai chi, the most famous branch of Qigong, or exercises that harness the qi (life energy, pronounced "chee"), has been linked to health benefits for virtually everyone from children to seniors. Researchers aren't sure exactly how, but studies show that tai chi improves the quality of life for breast cancer patients and Parkinson's sufferers. Its combination of martial arts movements and deep breathing can be adapted even for people in wheelchairs. And it has shown promise in treating sleep problems and high blood pressure." US News & World Report, November 26, 2010 (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/diet-fitness/pain/articles/2010/11/26/for-health-benefits-try-tai-chi.html)

Pmrich (talk) 13:11, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Scientific Basis for Re-write

Let's focus on scientific basis, including randomized controlled trials concerning health benefits:

Scientific Review

Jahnke R, Larkey L, Rogers C, Etnier J, Lin F. 2010. A comprehensive review of health benefits of qigong and tai chi. American Journal of Health Promotion, 24(6), e1-e25.

Concise Summary: This review examines the evidence for achieving outcomes from randomized controlled trials (RCTs) concerning psychological and physiological benefits of Qigong and Tai Chi. Seventy-seven articles met inclusion criteria. Results demonstrated consistent, significant results for nine categories of health benefits: bone density (n = 4), cardiopulmonary effects (n = 19), physical function (n = 16), falls and related risk factors (n = 23), quality of life (n = 17), self-efficacy (n = 8), patient-reported outcomes (n = 13), psychological symptoms (n = 27), and immune function (n = 6).

Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20594090

Manuscript: http://www.instituteofintegralqigongandtaichi.org/pdfs/ReviewRJLL0509.pdf

Qigong and Energy Medicine Database: http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/database.php

Pmrich (talk) 17:06, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

[redacted] [This paper] is not exactly world-class: it reviews several trials, yes, but also states that one group was performing Qigong and Tai Chi exercises, with the other doing "nothing special". Given that one group is exercising, and one group is not doing anything, I would expect to see an improvement in the same areas (bone density, balance, cardiovascular, quality of life, etc) if a person exercised normally. All the paper proves is that "doing Qigong is better than sitting on a chair". [redacted] I fail to see any proof [that qigong can cure serious disease] in the single review. [redacted] I have had a quick look through [the link to the Qigong and Energy Medicine Database], and found some truly amazing studies. One of them says that cancer is caused by the weather, and some studies (from actual hospitals) also on the site say that qigong is not beneficial to health - that in fact it causes mental disorders, including psychosis. One of them - at http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=184 - claims something to do with breaking the speed of light using qigong, and curing cancer by doing so. [redacted] I don't doubt that it's relaxing, and I don't doubt that people believe in the quasi-religious aspects of it, but I do doubt that it is any more beneficial to health than light excersise and muscle stretching routines. The Cavalry (Message me) 03:10, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts and insight. [redacted] I certainly don't want to be in a position to try to defend untenable research. [redacted] On the other hand, the Jahnke et al. 2010 publication does have merit (and limitations like all research), and it provides a first cut at sorting through the literature. Does qigong have more health benefit than other exercise (or for that matter physical therapy or other accepted health modalities), and if so is it because it also includes other features that may also benefit health (e.g., controlled breathing, relaxation, meditation, aesthetics, group participation, prayer, spiritual belief, focus on qi...)? Anyways, below are a few more resources. Pmrich (talk) 13:11, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

References moved to separate section to keep page readable

Let me be quite clear about the scientific view on this: qigong does not have any health benefit over exercise. [redacted] Certainly, the list of references and sources [redacted] is not only overwhelming, but overly biased in favour of traditional Chinese therapies. [redacted] [In terms of relying on] resources from the 'Qigong Institute' - said institute is obviously financially biased in deciding which studies it links to. Why not rely on unbiased sources - for example, those of medical agencies, health charities and people with medical degrees? Those sources will not be biased - at least, not as much. The Cavalry (Message me) 07:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

[redacted] [The statement that] "the scientific view on this: qigong does not have any health benefit over exercise", [redacted] perhaps correct, perhaps not, [is] far from "proven", and far from being "the consensus" of the broader scientific community. In fact, most studies do not address this well, and it is not trivial to conduct good controlled studies that can be so definitive. [redacted] [Scientists] and medical researchers are notoriously curious and skeptical [redacted]. By the way, "The Qigong Institute is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to Qigong research and education to promote public health. It is supported solely by membership and donations. Officers and Board Of Directors members are volunteers, and there is no paid staff. Donations and membership help pay for the operation of the website." Note inclusion of this information is not meant to promote this organization, just to encourage accuracy. [There is both excellent and questionable research in the database.] Indeed it is a good question whether qigong has health benefit over exercise (both "qigong" and "exercise" are big categories). Yes, we need reliable sources and participation by additional experts. [redacted] Pmrich (talk) 00:22, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite Plan

Priorities:

• Dispute: resolve to assure neutrality, reliable references from scientific and medical sources, factual accuracy, tone

• Theory: reduce traditional view to concise treatment, move detailed treatment of qi to Qi article; expand principles (coordination of breath, focus, meditative state, body alignment, stance, relaxed muscles, fluid motion, balance and counterbalance, aesthetic sense...); expand contemporary view with basic concepts (alternative and scientific interpretation - mind-body intervention, exercise physiology, biofeedback, stress management, neural pathways, meditation and trance states, breath control...)

• History: reduce to concise treatment, move detailed treatment to new History of Qigong article

• Health Benefits (or lack thereof): add section with traditional view, contemporary claims, scientific/medical view

• Literature: consolidate, cleanup, eliminate references that do not meet Wikipedia standards (scientific, medical, etc.)

• Solid Edit: focus on organization, clarity, tone, consistency of voice, brevity; eliminate redundancy and wordiness

• Photographs: add interesting and informative photographs to illustrate major points (Commons will be useful)

Pmrich (talk) 03:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I've tweaked the above a litte bit - it's a plan, so we all need to agree :-) . The Cavalry (Message me) 07:26, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Great. The article needs strong editing and new writing to bring it to a new level. Let's keep in mind that the treatment needs strengthening, including basics about qigong (the subject of the article), history, philosophy, culture, art, along with science and medicine. Pmrich (talk) 03:04, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Great, looking forward to the re-editing. The article already appears to be under revision right now by vitalforce. It will be great to build towards a high quality article with everyone's contribution. ottawakungfu (talk) 17:41, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is good to see interest in working together on this article. I've started on a bit of cleanup. Thank you, Ottawakungfu, for all your contribution to date (significant rewrite)! Vitalforce (talk) 20:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

There are some sections in the chinese qigong page that are worth putting in the English version also. (e.g Qigong classification 分类 3.1 硬氣功 3.2 軟氣功 , Qigong branches 氣功的派別 4.1 吐納 4.2 禪定 4.3 存想 4.4 內丹 4.5 導引術 , The sensations of Qi 氣感) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.36.46.141 (talk) 05:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

What would it take?

What would it take to resolve the problems on this article?

Its references may not meet Wikipedia's guidelines for reliable sources. Tagged since September 2011. Its factual accuracy is disputed. Tagged since September 2011. Its tone or style may not reflect the formal tone used on Wikipedia. Tagged since September 2011.

A tall wishlist, indeed. But it seems like something worth working on. Is there anyone else actively editing this page? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 04:27, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I think the article is improving. It is a controversial subject so that will be many strong points of view. I disagree with the tags. Since the rewrite, most of the references are from reliable sources. There are less factual inaccuracies and editors have tried to address any questions raised. I believe the tone is appropiate for this article but tone and style is subjective. I have left the tags on because the editor that provided those tags feel strongly that the article needs to be improved in those areas. ottawakungfu (talk) 09:45, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I believe we are close to resolving the problems with this article and that this is a good time to discuss removing the tags. A simple comparison of the current article with the article in September shows major improvement. Here is my assessment:

• Dispute: neutrality is now good; most references are now reliable; factual accuracy is now good; tone is now consistent and good
• Theory: traditional view is now concise; details of qi are moved to the Qi article; principles are sketched in but need fleshing out; contemporary view and basic concepts are sketched in but need fleshing out
• History: history is now concise; detail is now in separate article
• Health Benefits: now organized in separate subsections (Claims and medical research; Mental health; Controversy); traditional view, contemporary claims, and scientific/medical view are concisely stated
• Literature: references now meet standards; key references added and unreferenced text removed
• Solid Edit: Organization, clarity, tone, consistency, and brevity are now good; most redundancy has been eliminated; Zou huo ru mo details were moved to a separate article; cross links with related articles are now good; navigation box is now constructed
• Photographs: photographs and other illustrations are still lacking

What is needed before the tags are removed? Are there specific outstanding problems?

Vitalforce (talk) 15:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Beyond removing the tags, here are some priorities:

• Literature: check systematically for reliability
• Philosophy: eliminate redundancy and add a bit more depth in Meditation and self-cultivation subsection (not out of proportion with rest of article)
• Theory: flesh out principles and contemporary view/basic concepts
• Health Benefits: summarize conclusions of more scientific and medical references (see extensive reference list above; search medical databases and recent books for new findings)
• Photographs: solicit additions to the Commons

Vitalforce (talk) 15:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

My only real reservation now is the last section, "Shifting views of qigong", which is rather woolly and only referenced to a Qigong source. If the last paragraph of that section was removed I would support removing all the tags.--Charles (talk) 17:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think "controversial" is helpful as a descriptor of anything. Everything is controversial. That's not saying anything. Let's not focus on that. There is a lot of literature out there that is not being deployed in this article. I would be happy to contribute to the historical, theoretical, anthropological, and political aspects of qigong for this article, if others could take care of other portions. There are a few excellent books on the subject that I'm familiar with, as well as some journal articles. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 18:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I deleted the final section completely for two reasons: the first paragraph had no sources whatsoever; the second paragraph was fine, but it was not contextualized properly. Contrary to Charles, I think it is perfectly appropriate to have the perspective of qigong practitioners reflected in an article about qigong. The problem is, how to do that. For now, to enable us to tear off those tags, I've just removed it. Why do I not like tags? Because I feel like they are the kinds of things Wikipedians obsess about and aren't all that helpful for the reader. It's much better to focus on how to improve the content so that tags aren't necessary as quickly as possible. Thoughts? Don't mean to be too bold. [u]I've added the removed section below.[/u] The Sound and the Fury (talk) 18:23, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I am not saying the perspective of qigong practitioners should not be in the article, just that the section seemed to be claiming a wider belief in those views without sources to back this up.--Charles (talk) 23:51, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in this article! Yes, TheSoundAndTheFury, I am especially pleased if you are able to contribute to fleshing out historical, theoretical, anthropological, and political aspects of qigong. Have you had a good look at the separate Qigong history article (still needs more cleaning up, but has some excellent information)? My time and ability to work at the computer are limited, but I hope to continue to contribute (my professional expertise is strongest in the science and philosophy realms). I agree it was appropriate to delete the last section until it is recrafted with proper references and a cleaner last paragraph. What do you think about removing the neutrality tag (still in place)? Vitalforce (talk) 07:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

I rewrote and added back the "Shifting views of qigong" section, with references. Let me know what you think. Also, what do you think about removing the neutrality tag? Are there any specific outstanding issues that need to be addressed? Vitalforce (talk) 19:35, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Removed material

Shifting views of qigong

Traditionally, qigong training has been esoteric and secretive, with knowledge passed from master to student. Over the centuries, the exchange of ideas between various elements within Chinese society has created a more unified overview of qigong practice even though each segment maintains its own detailed interpretations and methods. In China, the emphasis has shifted increasingly on health benefits, traditional medicine, and scientific perspective, with decreasing emphasis on traditional aspects of qigong practice, though with notable exceptions.

In contrast, while most practitioners worldwide also focus on health benefits, many have also accepted the philosophical elements of qigong practice and pay homage to its rich past. The traditional philosophical, medical, and martial arts origins are recognized and used as justification for the effectiveness of qigong.

Section rewritten and added back. Vitalforce (talk) 13:09, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Health benefits

... This suggests that qigong may be effective primarily as gentle physical exercise. However, qigong studies generally have not been designed to distinguish the cause of beneficial effects. Research has not been conducted to evaluate the importance of different facets of qigong practice such as exercise, meditation, breathing, balance, quality of instruction, depth of practice, and difference in forms.

"Scientific"

The article has quotation marks around the word "scientific" throughout the article. These need to be removed. Quotes are usually meant to express sarcasm or doubt. Sarcasm has no place, and doubt needs to be expanded in the text, not left unexplained. Greenman (talk) 10:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I removed the quotation marks. Previously the word "scientific" was used in quotes four times, all in reference to usage in specific historical context (presumably not sarcastic), and not in quotes for multiple cases when the word "scientific" is used in other context elsewhere. Let's see if anybody thinks we need the quotation marks back. Vitalforce (talk) 13:05, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

Although the characters qi (氣) and gong (功) have been traced back to Taoist literature in the early Tang Dynasty (618-907), the term qigong as it is currently used was coined in the Maoist era of the 1950s, specifically in the 1957 book "Experience in Healing with Qi Gong" by Liu Guizhen 劉貴珍 (1920–1982) to emphasize health and scientific approaches, while avoiding association with ancient spiritual practices and mysticism.

Rewritten and added back. Vitalforce (talk) 15:57, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

suggest to rephrase

" Although the characters qi (氣) and gong (功) have been traced back to Taoist literature in the early Tang Dynasty (618-907) "

as

" Although the term qigong (氣功) has been traced back to Taoist literature in the early Tang Dynasty (618-907) "

《太清調氣經》：“服氣功餘暇，取靜室無人處，散發脫衣，...” - 隋唐間著作

气功标准教程, 北京体育大学出版社, 第1版 (2006年9月1日), ISBN: 7811005409

119.236.12.247 (talk) 03:33, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Author: Yang Bai Long. Date: 2006. Title: 气功标准教程 Qi gong biao zhun jiao cheng = Qigong Standard Guide. Publisher: 北京体育大学出版社 Beijing ti yu da xue chu ban she = Beijing Sports University Press.

Could you please translate this passage? It would be good to include in the article. Vitalforce (talk) 22:45, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The natural Qi regulation book (太清調氣經) is one of the books in the Orthodox Taoist Canon (Daozang). The term qigong is used in the following sentence

... 煉氣法又因服氣功，餘暇取靜室無人處，...

translated as

... (We) 煉practice氣the qi法method又因for服the ingesting氣 qi功 gong (practice). 餘暇 At leisure, 取 find靜室 a quiet room無人處 without people. …

The term ingesting Qi (服氣) is used throughout the book and is a qigong method by regulating breath.

History

In the 1990s Li Hongzhi filled a "spiritual void" by introducing Falun Gong, which included qigong exercises and teachings that renewed emphasis on spirituality, morality, and the supernatural. Popularity of Falun Gong grew rapidly, and in 1999 was banned as a "heretical organization" and "cult".

More text to consider - already in Qigong history and Falun gong. Vitalforce (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View (NPOV) dispute

Let's work together to resolve the Neutral Point of View (NPOV) dispute. As rewritten does the article now conform with NPOV guidelines and could we remove the NPOV tag? If you feel the article still does not maintain a NPOV please "clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why" and "make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article". Vitalforce (talk) 17:12, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Issues:

• promotion and advertisement - removed, checked links
• statement of traditional perspective as fact - reworded with proper qualifiers
• emphasis of historical interpretation - moved details to history article with rewording and qualifiers; eliminate remaining bias and ensure clear, concise treatment of recent history without omission
• health benefits - eliminate remaining bias, limit to reputable sources with qualifiers
• pseudoscience - eliminate remaining bias, limit to reputable sources with qualifiers.

I propose that we address any remaining issues and remove the NPOV tag. Vitalforce (talk) 15:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I support Vitalforce's motion to remove the NPOV tag. I like to thank Vitalforce for the hard-work and contribution to the clarity of this article. ottawakungfu (talk) 13:52, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Edits recommended by Unsigned 220.246.188.143

Remove Tai chi section: Creating a section on taichi under definition is misleading. It should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.246.188.143 (talk) 15:28, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

New stuff goes at the bottom. Do you have reliable sources specifically countering those in the article? The section on Tai Chi does mention that, while related, the two are distinct and separate. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:34, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I favor the previous wording What is Qigong? Tai chi subsection is relevant, referenced, and properly placed. Vitalforce (talk) 16:09, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

There are many forms of Qigong. Why should we specifically compare taichai and qigong under the definition section. Shouldn't we create a separate comparision table? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.246.188.143 (talk) 16:15, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Tai chi is well known and popular therefore the section is added to make sure the reader knows the difference or similarity. So I am ok with current the structure. ottawakungfu (talk) 02:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with the placement, at least for now. I considered moving this under martial arts applications, but favored earlier because many people want to understand the distinction between qigong and tai chi. The tai chi subsection certainly can be further improved without making it long, and it make sense to add more about the relation with other specific martial arts. Vitalforce (talk) 19:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Add table comparing qigong and other exercise: The following has been classified as original research, unreferenced and undone. I thought these are well understood. Can someone be kind enough to help to find some reference or help to create a better table to give Qigong a better perspective?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.246.188.143 (talk) 6 March 2012

	Qigong	Yoga	Stretching Exercise	Strength Exercise	Martial Art (Kung Fu)	Meditation
Muscle training (direct or indirect)				Emphasized	Emphasized
Tendon stretching		Emphasized	Emphasized
Deep relaxation	Emphasized	Emphasized				Emphasized
Mental focus on body parts	Emphasized
Breathing control	Emphasized
Fighting and defense					Emphasized
Breathing frequency	Decrease			Increase	Increase
Heart beat				Increase	Increase
Improve blood circulation	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Religious association	Not necessary	Not necessary	Not necessary	Not necessary	Not necessary	Not necessary

A table comparing different practices could be useful, but I do not know of any published references. The table as presented is problematic in that serious practitioners in any of the disciplines would likely include all of your categories (e.g., yoga and qigong both involve a lot of muscle training) and the main differences are likely what defines the practice (e.g., martial arts for fighting). You make a good point that we should consider what readers want to know (i.e., what is qigong and how is it distinct and similar in comparison with other practices). Vitalforce (talk) 19:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Add qi "experiment": People can read through the article but not knowing what actually Qi and Qigong is. I tried to put a description of a simple experiment but it has been removed by a robot which considered it as vandalism. The original description is as follows:

• Stand up, relax yourself, loosen up all the joints and be open-minded.
• Slowly raise the forearms until they are at right angle to the upper arms.
• Imagine that you are holding a balloon in front of your belly.
• Imagine that the balloon slowly inflates and pushes your palms apart.
• The force will become stronger when you are more relaxed.
• Many people can feel this force on an initial attempt.
• This is one of the sensations of Qi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.36.44.131 (talk) 17:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not a how-to manual. Different people interprets Qigong differently so this type of content should not be in the article. ottawakungfu (talk) 16:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Your point is well taken that it would be good to communicate more experiential accounts about qi and qigong, but this is not appropriate in its current form. In the future it might make sense to briefly summarize some major teaching techniques (worded rather differently, but with the basic idea), though I feel at present there are many higher priorities for this article (see priorities in discussion above). Vitalforce (talk) 19:33, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Add qualifier about martial arts: This statement "The practice of qigong is an important component in Chinese martial arts." should be rephrased to "The practice of qigong is an important component in SOME Chinese martial arts". There are many forms martial arts which do not have a Qigong component. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.36.44.131 (talk) 17:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

This is a reasonable suggestion. So I incorporated the change. ottawakungfu (talk) 21:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

We cite the 1997 reference Qigong Empowerment by Shou-Yu Liang and Wen-Ching Wu. On page 238 the authors clearly state the following: "Wushu is the proper term for Chinese martial arts. It is usually classified into two divisions, mainly the Internal Style division and the External Style division. Martial styles such as Saholinquan, Chaquan, Bajiqun are considered to be External Styles; and Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan), Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Liuhbafa are considered to be Internal Styles. Regardless of the classification, each style has qigong in their training." "Traditional martial arts training has always included qigong as part of their internal energy training." Vitalforce (talk) 13:26, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The Neijia page says Nèijiā (Chinese: 內家; literally "internal school") is a term in Chinese martial arts, grouping those styles that practice nèijìng (Chinese: 內勁; literally "internal strength"), usually translated as internal martial arts, occupied with spiritual, mental or qi-related aspects, as opposed to an "external" (Chinese: 外; pinyin: wài) approach focused on physiological aspects. The distinction dates to the 17th century, but its modern application is due to publications by Sun Lutang, dating to the period of 1915 to 1928. --> For the internal style, Qi is an important component. Any additional reference that Qi is also an important component for the external style? 1.36.44.112 (talk) 14:16, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Many references explain that qigong is important for external styles. See Styles of Chinese martial arts: External and Internal and List of Chinese martial arts: Internal and external styles. Please read Wikipedia Help:Editing, research and read reliable sources, and base any editing contributions on what is written in those sources. Also, if you plan to edit on Wikipedia, I suggest you first set up a user account and establish a mentor. Vitalforce (talk) 18:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

After reading the page Styles of Chinese martial arts: External and Internal, I believe I understand where "my problem" arises. In Chinese, the term 內功 (internal training) is more commonly used than the term 气功 (Qigong) in the context of martial art and the term 气功 (Qigong) is more often heard of in the context of 硬气功 (the hard Qigong branch of martial art). The two terms probably mean the same to most people. Internal training is considered as an advanced training for the external style. From people that I know (and some of them are martial art teachers), they practise the external style without going for this advanced training. Of course, people will think that the training is not complete without the advanced part. The page Styles of Chinese martial arts: External and Internal may be a better link for the words "internal and external". Thanks guys for the clarification. Thanks to Vitalforce for his dedication on this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.36.46.141 (talk) 03:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Rewording: "A person is believed to become ill or die when qi becomes diminished or unbalanced. " --> suggest to rephrase as "It is believed that a person will become ill when Qi becomes unbalanced and a person will die if qi is exhausted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.246.189.2 (talk) 15:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I prefer original wording. Also rewording leaves out "diminished". Vitalforce (talk) 19:26, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The oldest Qigong diagram

The oldest discovered Qigong diagram is from the western Han dynasty Mawangdui tomb (206 BCE– 9 BC). The diagram is named "Tao Yin Diagram".

http://chimed.cmu.edu.tw/wordpress/?p=789

1974年湖南長沙馬王堆三號漢墓出土的《導引圖》，是現存最早的一卷保健運動的工筆彩色畫。這是西元前3世紀末的作品，相當於中國西漢前期。

119.236.12.247 (talk) 02:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks but this fact is mentioned in the history of qigong section. ottawakungfu (talk) 02:52, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately(?) can't use primary sources neither. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 04:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Please translate this. Vitalforce (talk) 16:11, 13 March 2012 (UTC)