Talk:Arab citizens of Israel

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Materials

Sources relevant to this article:

• http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4175679,00.html

opening needs changing

Refering to the Arab citizens of Israel as Palestinian culturally and linguistically is nonsensical. First, there is no language caled Palestinian. Second, there never was a Palestine or national Palestinian entity until after the creation of Israel and the victory of Israel in the 6 day war. Thus, all the Arabs living in Israel are linguistically and culturally Arab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.253.194.1 (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

So there is a language called Israeli, is there? RolandR (talk) 19:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

No but there's also no language called Palestinian. I have edited the introductory paragraph in the interest of greater clarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aemathisphd (talk • contribs) 04:51, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Representation in the Knesset

putting a report as an information source,that had been commissioned by an arab organization, about a subject of arab-israeli relations, is basically like putting a report from a far right group in israel about arab claims in the conflict. it's completely biased and misleading, and obviously not true. and on the subject, there is no law in israel that bans an arabic party. the only arabic party that had been ban was in 1965 because in its manifest was a goal of eliminating jewish presence in israel. from there on, there was 1 communist that had been banned, and the rest was far right jewish parties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.72.225.222 (talk) 23:33, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

The Star of David is also an Islamic symbol

I have tried to add this edit to the article many times because without it the article distorts facts:

The Hexagram(Star of David/Seal of Solomon) is revered in Islam for it's connection to Solomon and appears in Islamic architecture.

Unfortunately since some Wikipedia editors don't like Israel and have this article on their "no one else can edit watchlist" my edit keeps getting reverted no matter how many sources I add. No matter if it is a news reporter or an Islamic blog or webpage(not a blog). So instead of trying again I have decided I will leave this here. I hope that one of those editors can see that having correct information is more important then proving a political point. And maybe just maybe someone else will see how cool it is that the Star of David/Seal of Solomon is both a Jewish and a Muslim symbol.

I will list a few more sources here in hopes that the edit will get made:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=focLrox-frUC&pg=PA434&dq=seal+of+solomon+in+islam&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CARkUr38BqeqyAHDg4CICg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=seal%20of%20solomon%20in%20islam&f=false

http://books.google.ca/books?id=KoiD_yafPT8C&pg=PA138&dq=seal+of+solomon+in+islam&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CARkUr38BqeqyAHDg4CICg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=seal%20of%20solomon%20in%20islam&f=false

And here is a picture: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3422089 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csi.southpark (talk • contribs) 16:30, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

You've used the Daily Mail and 2 blogs so far. They were removed because they didn't comply with policy and didn't support the content you added. The conclusions you draw from this provide useful information about the way you think, but they are not relevant to the page per WP:TALK. What you need are reliable sources that fully support the content you want to add. The two books you list are reliable but they have nothing to say about the Star of David as a national symbol and reactions to that. Remember, this is not about the cultural aspects of hexagrams. The section is about Israeli national symbols. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:51, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

The edit I made had no reference to reactions to the Star of David by Israeli Arabs. You are confusing my edit with that of another person(who has not provided sources for their claim, hence the citation needed tag I added and you removed). Perhaps you could read the comment before reverting it. All it said was that the symbol is also revered in Islam, which disputes claims made in this article that the Star of David/Seal of Solomon doesn't represent Israeli Arabs. When in fact it does however unintentional that representation is. And furthermore blogs are used as references many times, perhaps you should try to search Wikipedia articles for them and remove them as well. I really don't understand why this is such a controversial claim I think it's really great that the symbol is shared between Islam and Judaism. Csi.southpark (talk) 18:07, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not confusing anything and I'm not sure how I can be any clearer than my comment above. I'm not talking about the "is received with mixed feelings by some Israeli Arabs" statement. That was removed as unsourced and should not have been restored without a source. I'm talking about the rest, your content. This is about your not understand policy. In order to dispute "claims made in this article that the Star of David/Seal of Solomon doesn't represent Israeli Arabs" you need a source that does exactly that. You are not a source. You can't combine things to tell a story that has an ending you like. See WP:SYNTH. The article is about Arab citizens of Israel. The section is about Israeli national symbols in the context of Israeli Arabs and their views on these symbols of national identity. Content should be about that, not about the symbols themselves. Regarding blogs, yes, certain blogs can be used under certain circumstances. It's explained in the policy, WP:SPS. These blogs do not meet the criteria. I have made ~27,000 edits. Go and find the edits where I removed blogs that don't comply with that policy and see how many there are. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:37, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Maybe I'm alone in this but to me the section in this article about national symbols seems to be talking about the symbols themselves and not just peoples thoughts on them. I just thought that having information about the symbol itself could be useful, the way it is now can be misleading to others who assume that the article speaks about the symbols themselves and not only about peoples thoughts on them. Csi.southpark (talk) 18:50, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

This JPost article has some history and contrasting opinions. Oran's and Tibi's opinions would need to be attributed to them rather than presented in the voice of the encyclopedia. A scholarly source would be better, but JPost is an RS and it has everything you have been looking for together in one place. Also, see this csmonitor source, another RS, which states (and note for interest that it's stated as an unattributed statement of fact), that "Today, Israeli Arabs enjoy voting rights and welfare benefits similar to those of Jewish citizens. But none of Israel's national symbols, such as the Star of David flag, represent their heritage." There are probably plenty of reliable sources out there that deal with these issues. Sean.hoyland - talk 11:06, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the article Sean.hoyland, I was having a hard time finding one. What do you think of this edit? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arab_citizens_of_Israel&oldid=578217901 Csi.southpark (talk) 05:24, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, it includes Oran's perspective but excludes Tibi's perspective, an Israeli Arab. So it isn't really balanced and therefore doesn't comply with WP:NPOV as much as it could. You might want to try to figure out what is was that led you to sample a source in that apparently biased way and try to do something about it if you think it is likely to happen again with other content/sources. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:43, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Well Sean.hoyland you'll notice that the article already includes that point of view (Some Arab politicians have requested a reevaluation of the Israeli flag and national anthem, arguing that the Star of David at the flag's center is an exclusively Jewish symbol... a majority of the section is devoted to it and it even includes a quote). I really didn't see the need to add another point from that side. It looks balanced(maybe even tilted towards the other side a bit more) to me this way(one point each side). If you disagree then by all means add the quote from Tibi but there is no need too attack other users. Csi.southpark (talk) 07:04, 22 October 2013 (UTC)