Talk:Antônio Carlos Jobim

Circumflex accent

I've moved this page to "Antônio Carlos Jobim" (with the circumflex accent), since it's the form used on the Portuguese Wikipedia. However, person names are an exception, and might not have an accent in the place where it would usually be following the usual spelling rules; on the other hand, most Brazilians tend to drop the accents when using computers (so looking it up on Google or even the official site wouldn't settle the matter). Does anyone have a reliable source for the right spelling of the name? --cesarb 23:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Antonio Carlos Jobim have no accent! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurice Lelaix (talk • contribs) 12:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at this link and click the 2nd and the 4th images. These pictures are his name written by himself, without the accent. It's reliable because it's the official site. virgilinojuca 18:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Jobim

Sometimes, reading about Tom on the Internet or having the opportunity to hear Tom's music makes one miss Tom, even though one never knew of Tom when he was alive. AppleJuggler 04:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was moved to follow predominant English usage. Aervanath (talk) 02:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

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I suggest the page be moved back to Antonio Carlos Jobim. The circumflex accent may be "correct" according to current spelling rules, but clearly the man didn't use it himself. See, for example, the link provided by User:Virgilinojuca on how he writes his own name. Jobim's album covers don't use the accent either: see here, here, here, etc. Jafeluv (talk) 13:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Support move. Kittybrewster ☎ 18:15, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Support move. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 10:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Support per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)#Modified_letters. The name that is most commonly used by verifiable reliable sources in English should be used. Google Books shows 789 uses without the accent.[1] Although used in the books Antônio Carlos Jobim: uma biografia‎, a 545 page biography, and Eclecticism in the Music of Antônio Carlos Jobim: A Consideration of Stylistic Diversity, the uses with the accent are almost exclusively all not in English.[2] dissolve^talk 19:20, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose Regardless of whether he uses the accent or not, "Antônio" is always written with a circumflex accent as the only correct way to do so in the original language of this name - Brazilian Portuguese. So must bear the accent his birth certificate. Húsönd 21:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment: George Frideric Handel's birth certificate reads Händel, but we use the unaccented version because that's what the majority of English language sources use. That's exactly the case here. Article titles are supposed to use the most widely used variant. Jafeluv (talk) 07:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
    • That is an exception (a sad one), not the rule. I could name thousands of articles on Wikipedia that do not follow Händel's example. Furthermore, the "most widely used" rule does not apply with diacritics, as they do not render a different name, just the same name written in an accurate way. Húsönd 19:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
      • I admit that Handel was a bad example, as his name was officially changed to George Frideric Handel (so it's not just an unaccented variant). However, the "most widely used" rule does apply here. The naming convention guideline says: "Wikipedia does not decide what characters are to be used in the name of an article's subject; English usage does. Wikipedia has no rule that titles must be written in certain characters, or that certain characters may not be used. Versions of a name which differ only in the use or non-use of modified letters should be treated like any other versions: Follow the general usage in English verifiable reliable sources in each case, whatever characters may or may not be used in them." Jafeluv (talk) 15:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
        • That particular part of the guidelines was inserted by a user with a long history of hatred against diacritics and is naturally disputed. In fact, if it were to be followed, there would be no articles on Wikipedia whose titles contain diacritics, as the diacriticless version is always more common in sources. Which is not the case, we tend to always use diacritics when applicable. Húsönd 19:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose per Husond and his knowledge of Portuguese. There is no proof of wide use of non-accented version. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 19:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment: Do these count: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9? All his albums list him as "Antonio". This might be questionable in the case of all caps (you can see João Gilberto credited as "Joao" in the first one), but saying there's "no proof of wide use of non-accented version" is a little harsh given the evidence. Allmusic lists him as "Antonio" while Gilberto is listed as "João". jobim.com.br uses "Tom Jobim" mostly but sometimes "Antonio", never with the accent. IMDb (however reliable you consider it to be) uses "Antonio". Both variants are clearly used in reliable English language sources and it's just a question of which one is more widely used. Jafeluv (talk) 14:40, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Support. I thought it was some sort of an erroneous "anglicization," but I am convinced due to the Allmusic link. However, none of your images show João Gilberto's name written properly. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 14:56, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

• Strong oppose For two reasons: first, the article should be moved to "Tom Jobim", the name he went by. Secondly (and I'm a native P. speaker), the fact that he dropped his circumflex accent on some occasions (including his (handwritten) signature) is irrelevant for the question on what his name was, in his cultural context (it is common that people drop the accents on their names, but their names still include these accents). You may also notice that there was no discussion on the Portuguese Wikipedia about this accent. It was obvious for everybody that the accent had to be there. This may not be obivous for English native speakers, but it is quite obvious for any Portuguese native speaker who has no general opposition to accents.Velho (talk) 17:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

  Comment This view seems to ignore our naming conventions, and the fact that the Portuguese Wikipedia is written in Portuguese. Naturally the Portuguese Wikipedia wouldn't base its spelling on common usage in English; it would be based on common usage in Portuguese. English Wikipedia's style is based on common usage in English, which has nothing to do with what Jobim called himself, and nothing to do with usage in other languages. The consensus for the English Wikipedia's naming conventions to be based on common usage in English is strong and long-standing. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:31, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

• Comment I see there's an ongoing dispute about including diacritical marks in article titles on the guideline's talk page. Jafeluv (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

  Comment - there's an ongoing minority view maintained - in the best of faith - by User:Husond and others to change Wikipedia's naming conventions to be more diacritic-friendly and less based on English language sources. The current stalemate has held for a long time, and the closest thing we've got to consensus is to keep basing our naming on sources, but to continue being reminded in individual cases that a disagreement remains unresolved. It's a reasonably stable equilibrium, and someday, it may tip one way or another, and change. That's my take on it, anyway. -GTBacchus^(talk) 20:31, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support move. The user who originally moved this article to Antônio seemed uncertain about the proper naming, but decided that we should go with typical Portuguese spelling as a default. This was proper, as well as that user's willingness to change his position in the face of verifiable evidence. I think that clear evidence has been found. We should move this to what is used most commonly in English language sources. The only dispute may be between the Antonio Carlos Jobim and Tom Jobim.Erudy (talk) 15:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reference to Elis Regina

There is no direct reference to his working with Elis Regina, which in my opinion should be included. The Album Elis & Tom has been and still is a huge success for Bossa Nova in Brazil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.227.175.142 (talk) 11:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Shouldn't we offer a link for the airport page in the head of the article?? It's not Galeão's most common name, but it's often used when booking tickets and people might as well be looking for it.187.14.15.200 (talk) 09:09, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Lacks too many things =

How could a biographic entry of such an important artist be so content-free? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.217.162.8 (talk) 08:18, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Move

Can we move the page back to Antonio Carlos Jobim? The above discussion appears to have been ignored. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 00:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Website and estate management

We currently have www2.uol.com.br/tomjobim _(whois) as the Infobox website (as does pt:Antônio Carlos Jobim). There's also Jobim.com.Br/e.index.html _(whois) which looks better-supported / more-professional and is bilingual.

Until recently, our one was as above, but with the display text "www.tomjobim.com.br". Suspicious, as if two+ fan-sites might the vying for the spot. Do we know if either/both/neither of these have been authorised by the Jobim estate? For that matter - Do we know who manages the Jobim estate?

I seem to remember seeing an estate management site for him, a few years ago. A bit of fruitless%20googling did find Amazon.com chat on usage constraints (original Portuguese only) and LegalZoom.com on Jobim family vs. Universal on copyright/royalties - These look worthy of a sentence or two (unless we already have such).   – Ian, DjScrawl (talk) 16:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

dip shits again, lucky you got ME to check your work

you mention the 1996 'Wave' album but totally FORGOT TO MENTION the EVEN BETTER..

1994/95 'The Girl from Ipanema: The Antonio Carlos Jobim Songbook'... which, like 'Wave' ALSO includes tunes, performed by such illuminaries as Stan Getz, João Gilberto, and Astrud Gilberto on "The Girl from Ipanema," and with Astrud on "Agua de Beber" and "Dindi". Also.. Sarah Vaughan, Wes Montgomery, Billy Eckstine, Ella Fitzgerald, Oscar Peterson, Shirley Horn, and Dizzy Gillespie.

PLEASE include this info, mucho thank you 76.218.248.127 (talk) 01:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)