Talk:Steve Bannon

Leninist

I don't think a purported comment made in a party in 2013 warrants mention here. According to Snopes, Bannon has never called himself a Leninist anywhere else. We link to the Leninism page, which implies that Bannon is a self-confessed Communist, which is ridiculous. It's not about whether he said it (apparently Bannon just said he couldn't remember); it's about notability. This just isn't worth mentioning.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:50, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Off-topic. TheValeyard (talk) 04:59, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Maybe he said "Lennonist", just to be funny. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:37, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I would agree, it seems like a throwaway line is being ballooned out of proportion. TheValeyard (talk) 03:06, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Mostly agree while noting that the comment was obviously a reference to strategy not ideology.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:33, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Even in terms of strategy, it's utterly meaningless, unless you define down 'Leninist strategy' to mean no more than 'trying to elect Donald Trump'. However multiple supposed "reliable sources" saw fit to trumpet this mare's nest, so in the article it should stay. NPalgan2 (talk) 05:58, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, newsworthy, maybe, but this is an encyclopedia. I think Bannon was probably referring to Lenin's view of the state as expressed in The State and Revolution, but Lenin's theory was based on the introduction of socialism, so there is no real similarity. That aside, I wonder if we can rewrite the text for greater clarity? For example, linking to Leninism is extremely misleading, as it encourages an uninformed reader to read that page and believe that this is what Bannon subscribes to. It would be better just to link to Lenin.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Jack, I think you're making too much out of it (and I thought you'd of all people would see it) - Bannon obviously has in mind the whole "vanguard" idea of a dedicated clique pushing through radical changes by any means necessary even when the masses "aren't ready". That's like 90% of Leninism and it's also Bannon's views regarding political strategy as he's articulated them in other places.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:15, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Or don't mention it at all. It's trivial minutiae to recount what he might have said at a party. --DHeyward (talk) 16:19, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

OK, I've removed it.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm the one who put it there. For what is worth, I would argue that it wasn't so much out of place because, isolated incident or not, I think it helps to understand Bannon's political mindset. It shows that he thinks about Leninism as an example of the kind of successful anti-establishment revolution that he wished to spark in America. Bannon's jacuzzi being covered in acid is an example of meaningless trivia that I would never put in here. In my modest opinion, nothing about Bannon's political mindset is meaningless. You hadn't heard me before deleting it, so please reconsider said deletion. LahmacunKebab (talk) 09:10, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

It was a throwaway line (if he said it) and it is open to multiple interpretations, as this thread shows. Including it in the article is just misleading.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:35, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

What if we simply clarify it more? In fact, the original source itself clarified it. So it could be something like this (suggested addition in italic): In 2016, Ronald Radosh claimed in The Daily Beast that Bannon had told him earlier, in a book party on November 12, 2013, that he was a Leninist, in that "Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that's my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today's establishment" Radosh summarized it as Bannon "employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals". LahmacunKebab (talk) 10:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Bannon was a publisher with a thousand opportunities to put it in writing -- he did not do so. Radosh did not tape it but tried to remember the exact words spoken at a party 3 years before--not a reliable source for an exact statement by Bannon. Let's drop it. Rjensen (talk) 11:25, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

"racist"?

It seems a tad much to link Bannon citing a novel and then calling the novel "racist" when its real theme is arguably transpiring everywhere -- legal and illegal immigration from less developed nations fundamentally altering, or ruining, modernized cultures. Arguably, this is the story of modern Europe. Sure, Wikipedia leans to the Left and thus there is an inherent desire to slam Bannon. But this doesn't seem a fair way to go about that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.216.213 (talk) 02:06, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

That's why, when I added that bit of information, I said that the novel was "allegedly" racist so, if other people decide that you have a point, putting that word back would be my suggested solution. That said, and to be fair to the person who deleted it, I also think that the novel is racist, period. It is about barbaric, brown people destroying Western civilization, so come on. If this thing isn't racist, then only over the top shit like The Turner Diaries or Mein Kampf could be considered racist, and that would misrepresent how wide and pervasive the concept of racism really is. LahmacunKebab (talk) 08:52, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

It's flat-out racist, and only a racist would deny it. -- 184.189.217.210 (talk) 05:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Firing called for by Sabato

In reaction to 2017 Unite the Right rally, Larry Sabato, CNN Reliable Sources with Brian Seltzer Aug 13 2017, called for his, Bannon, firing as a white supremacist occupying the White House. --Wikipietime (talk) 15:27, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

"the platform for the alt-right"

Citation isn't even linked. Also, that statement has not been confirmed. Some Mother Jones but job claimed he said it. Why would that be in an objective page about him? That should be taken out. Ktm4391 (talk) 15:16, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

The citation is linked. Sarah Posner, the Mother Jones journalist who wrote about this, said Bannon made the statement during a Republican National Convention interview. Objectivity means we include what reliable sources include, even if they're not all favoring the subject. —ADavidB 16:51, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

The problem with this is that statements can be easily misinterpreted. Bannon could have been, and probably was, joking when he said that, akin to the time when Reagan said about he Soviets, "We begin bombing in five minutes," or when Bill Clinton joked that his activities in college while visiting the USSR were now "classified." Given that Breitbart is clearly pro-Israel, there is no reason to believe that that publication is actually "alt-right." If anything, the so-called "alt-right" hates Bannon and everything his publication writes. The statement in question was probably something that Bannon said tongue-in-cheek, just to be ironic. Best to give him the benefit of the doubt, regardless of your personal opinion of him.

@Ktm4391: is right. Take it out. Greggens (talk) 00:49, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh, he was "probably" "joking", was he? Here's what the Breitbart News entry has to say about that: Bannon declared the website "the platform for the alt-right" in 2016, but denied all allegations of racism and later stated that he rejected the "ethno-nationalist" tendencies of the alt-right movement. One of Bannon's coworkers said he was not referring to Richard Spencer but instead to "the trolls on Reddit or 4Chan." Let me explain it to you: that is not a joke by any definition of the word. That is him saying to the alt-right that he is one of them and to the rest of the world that he is not one of the bad ones; in other words, wanting to have his cake and eat it too.

Still not convinced? Here you have a quote from the book Devil's Bargain by Joshua Green, a journalist who has interviewed Bannon several times: The term “alt-right” itself had no fixed meaning. In its broadest sense, it encompassed the spectrum of groups left over if you took everyone to the right of center and subtracted mainstream Republicans and neoconservative foreign-policy hawks: populists, libertarians, immigration restrictionists, reactionaries, paleoconservatives, white supremacists, and full-on neo-Nazis. This catchall definition is what Bannon had had in mind when, in July, he told a journalist at Mother Jones that he considered Breitbart a “platform for the alt-right.” Boy, what a hilarious joke.

If you want to include clarifications like those in the Breitbart News entry do it; in fact, I think that the more complete the better. But altogether removing an important quote because you choose to see it as a joke despite evidence to the contrary is plainly wrong and something that only the likes of Conservapedia should do. LahmacunKebab (talk) 10:28, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Ah, the ol' "was only joking" defense.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@LahmacunKebab: this is not Liberalpedia. Your bias is showing buddy. ktm4391 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I think you got that backwards.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

I have provided: 1. One credible source (a book from a journalist that knows Bannon and has interviewed him several times) that considers the Mother Jones quote as true. 2. Evidence that the quote wasn't a joke. If I'm the biased one surely you can provide better and more unbiased things to support the deletion, can't you? LahmacunKebab (talk) 13:58, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Since when is Mother Jones a credible source? If you can link trash like that, why aren't sites like Daily Caller, Drudge Report, Zero Hedge, Daily Wire, etc ever used as citations on here? Ktm4391 (talk) 11:24, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

At least since 2012 best I can tell (WP:RSN), probably longer since nobody bothered to even question it's reliability before that. But yes, it's a source with a clear bias (which isn't the same as lack of reliability) so generally it should be attributed. The sites you mention on the other hand, are straight up fake news and some even publish hoaxes (and in the case of Daily Caller, instructional videos of how to run over protesters with a car, which sort of puts the recent tragic outcome in Charlottesville in context). So it's no comparison and these basically can't be used at all.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

2010 image

@Bongey and TheValeyard: please discuss about the image here as per the arbitration remedy. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 10:31, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

There's nothing to discuss on my end; an editor removed an image without discussion, I restored it. It is on that user's shoulders to explain why he/she feels it should be removed. Mr./Ms. "Emir of Wikipedia", kindly do not ping me again or post on my talk page unless there is a matter directly between you and I. You aren't an admin, and this did not involve you in the slightest. TheValeyard (talk) 22:09, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

I put it in the comment if you read it "Image doesn't have any context to anything on the page, nor alone b What, Why, When, Where, How, it's just a bad photo just thrown on the page randomly."

Plainly I seen the picture wonder what was it about and there isn't anything anywhere on page that relates to the picture other than it being an unflattering image of subject of the article. --Bongey (talk) 22:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

NEEDS to be REMOVED it has been edited so much that it doesn't look anything like the original from photographer nor does it actually look like Steve Bannon from 2010. . https://www.flickr.com/photos/irvines/5104952894/ . The photo has been edited so much to make it look like he hasn't seen the sun in years. Here is video of him a few months before , again notice the edited photo doesn't look anything like him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb4lbfDOzsQ

--Bongey (talk) 23:16, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

@Bongey: If your problem is with the editing from the original then we could just replace it. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 23:19, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Calm down. The image was color-corrected from the weird orange of the original, nothing more or sinister. TheValeyard (talk) 23:37, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

After Ousting from Trump Administration - The Tick Tock

Media reports that possible role of "directing Potshots" at the administration. A section detailing after Trump life is certainly forthcoming. proposed that would also include that he was an advocate that there is no military solution to the North Korean situation which has sourcing--Wikipietime (talk) 18:09, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

1. On the evening news was released, Aug 18, 2017, of departure from Whitehouse, reportedly has returned to his position of executive chairman with Breitbart News. Wolf Blitzer read statement from Breitbart stating the Breitbart says the sky is the limit now that Bannon is back.--Wikipietime (talk) 23:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

lead a bit unbalanced

I suggest that the lead include the end of his employment with Trump, some facts be left out as included in the article itself (eg his attendance of the US National Security Council - the importance of that needs to be explained - how he described Breitbart News, etc), and the whole lead be written in chronological order. The last point is based on the idea that the lead itself is an introduction to the whole article, and is not itself structured with an introductory paragraph. Sort of like the "5 paragraph literary essay" without the enthusiasm. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)