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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Klintron23 (talk | contribs) at 00:51, 3 October 2023 (→‎Characteristics: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Grunge...what?

Why is grunge mentioned so much in this article, especially as an influence (or component) to sludge? That's bullshit. Grunge came AFTER sludge and never influenced sludge. It's the other way around. Grunge rock was greatly influenced by sludge (among other things). Grunge had almost no impact on sludge. Also, I don't really understand why southern rock is mentioned in the way it is. Is it true that SOME sludge bands are influenced by and have elements of southern rock? Yes. But not all sludge bands do. In fact only some sludge bands even have any southern rock sound to them. The majority of sludge bands have ZERO southern rock in their sound. 67.187.244.150 (talk) 04:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Grunge is related to sludge , many grunge and proto-grunge bands have essential influence on sludge metal , not only The Melvins and Alice In Chains , but a lot of underground bands from Northwest of E.U.A,Australia, and from some European Countries , sludge metal reinvented a alternative to make a noisy dirty sound , sludge metal is the new grunge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.25.191.107 (talk) 12:00, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The term "sludgecore"

It is an official term, used by Pandora to describe sludge bands. Pandora's employees all have degrees in music fields, they know what they're talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewjrc09 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC) [1] [2][reply]

I don't think Pandora are the absolute authority on genres... possibly not an authority on genres that Wikipedia recognises at all. Do you have other sources here? Яehevkor ✉ 21:40, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You should also consider contributing to the discussion above, Talk:Sludge metal#Sludgecore?, regarding the significance of the term. Яehevkor ✉ 21:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Music streaming sites such as Pandora, Last.fm and Grooveshark are nowhere near reliable sourcesShallowmead077 (talk) 07:47, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, all of Pandora's employees have atleast a 4 year degree in music theory or other music fields, if that's not reliable then I don't know what is— Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewjrc09 (talk • contribs)
Where is this "4 year degree in music theory" from? Source please? If you feel it is valuable as a source then I invite you to bring it up at WP:ALBUM/SOURCE - I can't find anywhere on the site where they are open about genre selection however. They are usually crowd sourced. Anyway, the discussion above about the prominence of the phrase seems to have stalled - the reliability of Pandora is a separate issue - doesn't anyone have anything to add there? Яehevkor ✉ 14:07, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Who ever said anything about Grooveshark or Last FM?User:Rocker0873 19:36, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

William Harris, I saw that you included Sludgecore as a supposed fusion genre of Sludge, but I don't think I agree with it. In the sources here before, it appeared that the Sludgecore term was used interchangeably with Sludge metal and Sludge doom to designate the same thing, and the source you presented doesn't seem to present a different idea on the matter, never establishing a relationship between the two terminologies. ABC paulista (talk) 12:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello ABC paulista, I only just noticed your post back up here. Are you satisfied with the section now, please? It is looking as if these 3 bands were sludgecore (although they have been called many things by many writers in various journals), and it was invented in New Orleans. 08:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)William Harris (talk)[reply]
William Harris, yeah I think it's better now. Still not totally convinced, but the sourcing is solid enough IMO. ABC paulista (talk) 13:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks ABC paulista. Let us see what "Characteristics" turns up later on; perhaps there will be enough material to compare and contrast the two "genres, styles, variants" or whatever. This for me has been a learning journey. I have nothing in mind, and am just following the trail to where it leads from the sources that we have available today from reference searches. William Harris (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@William Harris I'm still not seeing much distinction between sludge metal and sludgecore. Did you ever turn up sources that draw a harder line between the two? I can take a pass at incorporating the material from the sludgecore section into the history and characteristics sections while still noting that some of these bands, particularly those from New Orleans and the South, have also been referred to as "sludgecore." Klintron23 (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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This sludge metal article

This article was created in 2004 and has not progressed beyond a quality level of Start class in all of that time. A review of the topics on this talk page reveal much woolly thinking and uninformed discussion (most are about to be archived). It does not matter what you believe, Wikipedia requires that changes editors make need to WP:CITE expert WP:RELIABLE sources which other editors can WP:VERIFY. Only then will this article reach the level of quality that it rightfully deserves. William Harristalk 09:38, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have now redeveloped the "History" section using only books by music journalists as references, plus the 2009 "Sludge Special" by Terrorizer magazine which spans two issues and is too comprehensive to overlook. Given that this half of the article cites largely WP:SECONDARY sources, I am raising the quality rating of this article from class=Start to class=C. William Harris (talk) 20:47, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedic tone

I took a pass at improving the tone and prose of the article. I did leave some orphaned references that I'm not sure what to do with. Klintron23 (talk) 22:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Klintron23 Maybe you should bring back the sources you removed in order to eliminate the orphaned instances. I'm all for improvement and inclusion, but I don't see the reason for removing fully legit sourcing for such. ABC paulista (talk) 00:19, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I just found a few places to slot them back in. Klintron23 (talk) 01:25, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Characteristics

@Issan Sumisu I assume that "generally using sources to define the attributes of the genre when actually they were only describing a particular band's sound" was in reference to my citations for the statement about feedback/industrial/noise. However, the Terrorizer is describing industrial/noise as a key third ingredient, in addition to doom and hardcore, to sludge in general (as well as to Eyehategod in particular). I added the additional citation for Melvins for good measure. I also just added a third citation about Swans's influence. I admit the second and third citations veer towards WP:Synth, but they are additional support for the first citation. I removed the line you added about noise becoming commonplace in the mid-1990s, since the quote from Anselmi about Cavity doesn't actually say that and because those elements were clearly there in the earliest sludge albums as per the sources I cited. Happy to adjust the phrasing and citations more, but let's discuss here instead of edit warring. Klintron23 (talk) 00:32, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just did some additional editing of that statement that I think addresses any synth concerns. Klintron23 (talk) 00:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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