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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Beast01998 (talk | contribs) at 16:17, 2 July 2024 (→‎Requested move 1 July 2024). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Title

Should this soon-to-be article's title be changed to simply Hurricane Beryl, without the year (i.e., Draft:Hurricane Beryl)? I think this year's iteration of Beryl will meet the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria once it gets moved to the main space, given the anticipation of its impacts in the Lesser Antilles and the rest of the Caribbean. Vida0007 (talk) 16:23, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given that this storm will clearly meet primary topic criteria, the title should become Hurricane Beryl when this draft is moved to main space. Drdpw (talk) 16:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, the title 'Hurricane Beryl' exists as a redirect to List of storms named Beryl. Drdpw (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I published the article as "Hurricane Beryl (2024)", since there was another hurricane named Beryl. The discussion is only a tad bit premature. I can hope all I want, but what I say isn't going to affect the storm. If the storm becomes significantly more notable than the 2018 Hurricane Beryl, then at that time it will get the main article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for publishing the article! Regarding the matter of naming, I had anticipated that the page would linger in draft space longer, until the storm had interacted with land and people. Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 01:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beryl has struck Carriacou with 150 mph winds and is already confirmed to have caused significant damage to the island and other islands in the Grenadines, based on various livestreams. This clearly sticks out from the 2018 Beryl and will probably be retired next spring, so it shouldn't have the year anymore. Rye998 (talk) 15:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 July 2024

Hurricane Beryl (2024) → Hurricane Beryl – This hurricane is clearly more notable than Hurricane Beryl (2018) and is only going to be increasing in notability as time goes on. ✶Quxyz✶ 16:43, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support – virtually unprecedented storm and has attracted much media attention moreso then 2018. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 16:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I agree with everything MarioProtIV said. 24.115.255.37 (talk) 17:24, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's unlikely to be retired, but regardless is clearly more notable than the 2018 storm, both for impacts and records (not to say that the 2018 storm wasn't also somewhat exceptional). Somewhat relatedly, a good system for determining the primary topic when it comes to duplicate-named storms should definitely be worked on. AveryTheComrade (talk) 17:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Plenty of media attention, but let's wait until it's impacts are fully known or its name is formally retired. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:30, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - Needs more media attention and better coverage of the impacts. Hansen SebastianTalk 17:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I'll almost certainly change this to Support once it's all said and done. However, its first landfall was just ~3 hrs ago, and it has at least a week to continue its impacts across the Caribbean and potentially the Gulf. We should wait until its impacts are more thoroughly known and covered by media. Strong support seeing as Beryl is now officially the earliest category 5 on record for the basin. Furthermore, early news reports of damage throughout the Windwards are already harrowing and extensive. Further impacts are expected for Jamaica and Yucatan, so I only see notability increasing further hence. ArkHyena (talk) 17:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait In all likelihood, this change will happen eventually. However, to make that determination just hours after its first landfall is premature. ChessEric 18:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support — Beryl made landfall on Carriacou with 150 mph winds, and this storm I heard has already had significant impacts and lots of media attention. I think this article title would be better off as Hurricane Beryl without the year. This storm has also broken records for its strength this early in the season as well. VehicleandWeatherEnthusiast2022 (talk) 19:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, but very likely support in the not-too-distant future. Currently affecting populated areas at 150 mph, broke several records already, and more landfalls are on the way unless forecasts change significantly. As we learn more about the damage it's already caused (and is continuing to cause), there's a good chance a move will be justified soon. And if this initial landfall doesn't justify dropping the (2024), it's still forecast to affect more islands and eventually make landfall in Mexico. We have reason to believe this probably will be the most notable Hurricane Beryl article. Give it some time and we'll know for sure.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 20:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changing !vote from Wait to Support Over $1b in damages now, intensified further to 165 mph, hurricane warning issued in Jamaica, still on course to then strike the Yucatán Peninsula at hurricane strength after that. I think we can be sufficiently confident that this is the most notable Beryl now.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 11:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support - This is a Category 4 hurricane heading straight for Jamaica. Even if we change it back to "Hurricane Beryl (2024)" later, it should definitely be "Hurricane Beryl" right now, as that is the storm readers (especially in the Caribbean) are looking for (both Jamaica and Belize are English-speaking countries in the projected path of this hurricane). Nosferattus (talk) 20:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I believe this hurricane, meets WP:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria. Drdpw (talk) 20:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per others --ZZZ'S 21:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning towards Support because of its damage. If the fatalities also increase dramatically, I'll gladly change my vote. Also, it's intensity has nothing to do with this. ZZZ'S 06:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the name is retired. Benpiano800 (talk) 21:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't require that storm names are retired to drop the year, and waiting for retirement would also require waiting until the WMO meets a year later. And in response to Trooncel above, we also usually drop the year while the storm is still active; we rarely retroactively remove it. We only need to know that this is the most notable Hurricane Beryl that has a Wikipedia article.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks for the correction. Still in favor of waiting until it's over though. Benpiano800 (talk) 21:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with waiting but non retired hurricane names can still be the primary topic, such is the case with Hurricane Gordon Trooncel (talk) 23:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hurricane Idalia last year did not need 2023 in the article name because it was notable enough to not have 2023 in the article name ,and Idalia was never retired 2601:8C:8200:1700:D97B:956A:8167:E612 (talk) 13:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay it's category 5 now, I've changed by stance to Support Benpiano800 (talk) 14:05, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per ChessEric. ~ HikingHurricane (contribs) 21:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the end of the season, unless it becomes a Category 5 in which case it's guaranteed to be retired. --Zerbey (talk) 21:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is not how retirement works. Hurricane Lee (2023) was a category 5 and wasn't retired and was not declared to be the primary topic after an RM. Meanwhile, Tropical Storm Allison is the primary topic despite being a tropical storm because of the flooding it caused in Texas and Louisiana. ✶Quxyz✶ 21:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Becoming a Category 5 would not guarantee its retirement, nor does it need to be retired to drop the year. That's also only a few MPH away from where it is now, so crossing the threshold from 4 to 5 would not meaningfully change anything. Waiting until the end of the season also seems very arbitrary - why wait until the last storm dissipates to assess this one? Maybe I'm just out of the loop because I haven't been active in WP:TC in a while, but I'm very surprised by how many !votes are not at all in line with how we usually do things. The only requirement is that it is the most notable Hurricane Beryl. Retirement is irrelevant.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The two that requested waiting until retirement might just be passersby. One issue that came up during Lee's was that, iirc, while it certainly might be the most notable Lee, it was not standout enough to earn to lose the disambiguation. ✶Quxyz✶ 21:23, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I agree with Lee 23's year remaining. It is without a doubt the strongest Lee, but strongest doesn't always equal most notable. 2011's Lee was deadlier and caused far more damage, so I think it's fair to say neither are indisputably the most notable Hurricane Lee.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You could make a case that, since Beryl did $100 million in damages, this one did not do enough damage. Personally, I disagree with that especially since we have enough clairvoyance that it will at least hit the Yucatan Peninsula and probably graze Jamaica. ✶Quxyz✶ 21:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this article upped it to a billion last I checked. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Zerbey, there have been category 5 hurricanes that haven’t been retired; such as Lee (2023) or Lorenzo (2019). West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:04, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that it will be retired, no matter how impactful it is, is only speculating. Just saying. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize if I rubbed that in. I posted that comment before I read the entire thread, and erroneously thought that no one had already commented on that matter. I guess I need to learn to read all of the replies before replying (which is something I didn’t do.) West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support/wait Yes it's a bug storm but we should wait to see what the damage is. One source I saw said it's going to die before it makes landfall in a major area. LuxembourgLover (talk) 21:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LuxembourgLover: What source is that? The NOAA currently predicts that it will likely hit Jamaica as a hurricane or possibly major hurricane. There are almost 3 million people in Jamaica. Nosferattus (talk) 21:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right now the island is only on a hurricane watch, if it reaches a hurricane warning then that may change. I still think we should wait, it may miss Jamacia and die over the Yucatán Peninsula. source LuxembourgLover (talk) 21:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't call striking the Yucatán Peninsula at hurricane strength and then weakening into a tropical storm as it crosses into the Gulf of Mexico "dying", but I'll grant you that this is still just a forecast.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:05, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LuxembourgLover: Beryl is now a Category 5 barreling straight towards Jamaica. It is expected to hit Jamaica tomorrow as a major hurricane and then hit the Yucatan Peninsula as a regular hurricane on Friday. It has been extensively covered in the media and will be causing a lot more destruction this week. Nosferattus (talk) 16:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I think if it is necessary МОДОКАУ 21:31, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - It may be WP:TOOSOON to make such a big decision. We should wait for more reports about the damage and death toll. Poxy4 (talk) 00:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retracting my earlier statement to say Support due to it's estimated 1 billion in damages. Considering this number is likely to get bigger and this is very unlikely to be it's only landfall, it's probably the primary topic. --zoey (trooncel) 00:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Beryl has broken countless records. Having become the strongest June hurricane on record, the easternmost June hurricane on record, the first major hurricane in June outside of the Gulf of Mexico, the strongest landfall on record for this early in the season, and now the potential of it going Category 5? This has eclipsed Beryl 2018 by an immense margin of memorability and then-some. Regardless of retirement, I see absolutely no reason why this Beryl wouldn't become a primary topic. I think sure we can wait a little longer, but this Beryl is already immensely historical. VantaWiki (talk) 02:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support: Adding onto my initial support, Beryl is now officially a Category 5 hurricane...the earliest on record. VantaWiki (talk) 03:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Now that it is the earliest Category 5 storm on record (in the Atlantic at least (CNN), I do support the move pre-empting further impacts, as it will certainly be the most notable Atlantic hurricane named Beryl for the next seven years, if not longer. SpacePod9 (talk) 03:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: per others Nicky571 (talk) 03:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per others. Procyon117 (talk) 04:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait as per other writers. Once the impacts are clear, then I may be inclined to change my vote. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 04:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: while somewhat unrelated, I think this storm should be nominated for ITN. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still think we should wait a day or two on moving. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It already has. The current consensus is moving towards Wait. ZZZ'S 07:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Recent replies that I have seen is a growing support. I still think we need to hold off on moving the article at least until the storm hits Jamaica (at a bare minimum, I wouldn’t be opposed to waiting until Baryl has completely dissipated, but that’s just me.) West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 07:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am referring to the ITN candidate ZZZ'S 07:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to weak support given forecasts of a basically direct hit on Jamaica as a cat 3 (even if the eye stays a few miles offshore.), while I still have some reservations about moving the article this early, I think the likelihood of the name being retired (based on the presumed impacts in Grenada and Saint Vincent.) are extremely high. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 14:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the storm is now the earliest category 5 on record is also a factor in my decision. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 14:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support This storm has gotten heavy media attention, and has broken multiple records while doing devastating damage to the Windward Islands. The chance for extra devastation is very likely, as it will pass by Jamaica and then landfall in Yucatan. Furthermore, it is far more notable than the 2018 system. 🍙🌀CycloneIns✉ 05:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as this is currently now a catastrophic category 5 Sir MemeGod ._. (talk - contribs - created articles) 07:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's an historic hurricane that overshadows other storms with the same name. Killuminator (talk) 08:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Berly broke many records, and it will pass WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. HurricaneEdgar 10:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Drdpw Shmego (talk) 12:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support Even if Beryl blipped out of existence, it's already caused three deaths, became the earliest Category 5 hurricane in the Atlantic basin, and has caused at least $1 billion in damage. OhHaiMark (talk) 12:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support - Hurricane has widespread media attention, has broken many records for how early it has arrived and it's strength, and already decimated multiple islands. It is clearly the first Hurricane that comes to mind when someone says Beyl now. Beast01998 (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongest June hurricane (by pressure)?

It is undoubtably clear that it’s the strongest June hurricane by wind speed since it attained Category 4 intensity on June 30. But since it reached a pressure lower than the previous most intense June hurricanes on July 1, does that mean it was a “July hurricane” when it reached this pressure. 38.53.173.101 (talk) 23:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't change it for that reason. ✶Quxyz✶ 23:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Audrey 1957 remains the strongest/most-intense June Atlantic hurricane on record as measured by barometric pressure. Drdpw (talk) 23:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Furthest east hurricane in the tropical atlantic.

The current record states that Beryl was the "easternmost Atlantic hurricane to form in June". However, this is wrong as Chris 2012 became a hurricane further east at 43.2W. Therefore, to fix this, the record should state that Beryl was the furthest east in the TROPICAL Atlantic. Tryhard Angels (talk) 03:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Thanks for pointing that out. Please, feel free to make constructive edits anytime. Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 03:34, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I would but dont yet meet the criteria to edit semi-protected articles. Tryhard Angels (talk) 03:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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