Talk:Bereans

This Cult

I's about time you get a dose of your own medicine. Fairness, it's a beautiful thing.
Until they put their names behing their websites and product their sources, I consider that their opinion. The edit stays.
Off your pedestal, I see. Let slide, I will.

Emico. I have removed your statements for several reasons. Firstly your own experiences with the Apologetic group is not really relevant. They may not have replied to you, but that is no reason to assume they are guilty of something. Maybe they were on holiday, maybe they are busy. Secondly what you wrote does not conform to the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Some of what you wrote was also wrong. There is no evidence for the group being based on Roman Catholic theology. In fact it is extremely unlikely - go to the website and see what they say about Roman Catholics! DJ Clayworth 05:05, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

DJ. First, you should'nt remove someone else's statement. else, you'll be in this vicious cycle of one removing anothers contribution. Second, how long of a holiday do you think they should take? Don't you think it is their responsibility to defend their claim? After all, we are talking about another person reputation, that of Mr Manalo. As far as NPOV, you are not observing by putting a link which is crearly against another. As far as the Bereans theology, where do you think they got the doctrine of Christ being God-man? Emico 14:18, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that Jesus is both Man and God is part of the beliefs of almost all Christians, certainly not just Roman Catholics. Did you read what the website says about Catholics? [1] I know nothing about Mr Manalo, and I'd be quite happy if he wasn't mentioned in the article at all. It's not Wikipedia's job to refute anything the Bereans say. If you want people to know the truth about Mr Manalo (whoever he is) then you should write an article about him, not write about some other organisation. The only link I put in the article was to the Bereans' own website, which is certainly a sensible link to put in an article about the organisation. DJ Clayworth 00:40, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are you a member of this berean cult? If you are, can you tell me what your source is for making the claim on you website. If you're not a member, then why do you care so much. The link you had had claims that were'nt true. Why do you participate in propagating lies? Do you know what you look like if you cover up for liars? (the above by User:Emico)

I care because I care about the truth. To find the source I used just click on the symbol [1] above and your browser will take you to the Berean website where they talk about Roman Catholicism. This will show you very clearly that they are not Catholic. I am removing what you wrote in the article because it is wrong. Also some of the things you wrote are your own opinion, and so do not belong in an encyclopedia. Please read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view before you reply.

Please will you also sign your name whenever you write anything on talk pages. You can do so by putting four tilde characters like this ~~~~.

Incidentally you may be right that they are not functioning any more. Their mail server reported that their mailbox was full. DJ Clayworth 04:12, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"You care about the truth"! How noble. Well, so do I. And the bereans webpage is not telling the truth. I am putting back my contribution to the article. Emico 06:24, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Let me put this as clearly as I can. What you are writing is factually wrong. The Bereans are not Catholic! I ask you again, did you read what the Bereans say about Catholics? They devote several pages to talking about reasons why Catholics are wrong. It is not sensible to write an article about an organisation without reading what they say about themselves! DJ Clayworth 13:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

They may not be, but they're still lying about the Iglesia ni Cristo. Tell them to fix their content, or remove your link here. By you keeping their link here, you are propagating a lie. Why do you wanat to keep on lying about another person. And you call yourself a christian? Don't you read? Read and understand my point before taking out my contribution. Emico 14:06, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have read and understand your point. I'm sorry that you are offended by what the Bereans write, but it is obviously out of my control. What they are writing is a matter of opinion. Many people would agree with what they write, and many would disagree, just as there are there are those who agree and those who disagree with Iglesia ni Cristo. Should a Catholic be able to insist that we remove everything about Iglesia ni Cristo because they disagree with it? Of course not. DJ Clayworth 14:15, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, now you are really stretching it. In case you get confused by your own post, the issue is that you put a link that is lying about someone. Take out the link and we won't have this tit for tat. But it looks you are hellbent on lying with them. And you claim to care about truth. As long as you'll keep on propagating a lie, I'll keep on pointing it out. BTW, I got your email. It's bit short on details. Emico 14:41, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Bereans. The link is to the Bereans' own website. For anyone wanting to know about the Bereans, pointing them to their website is sensible. Maybe you should explain what it is that they are 'lying' about. The only thing I have heard so far is that they say Felix Manalo 'founded' the Iglesia ni Cristo (whatever that is) whereas you say he only registered it with the Phillipine government. That's a pretty minor distinction. On the other hand you have written in this article several times that the Bereans are a Catholic organisation when it is clear they are not.

I didn't send you any email, by the way. DJ Clayworth 15:48, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And of all the webpages having the name berean in them, you by chance picked this one. Convenient excuse. Pay attention DJ, after these long exchanges you claim to not know what they're lying about? Read man, read. For a man who claims to "care about the truth", you're too quick to support a liar. As far as the Bereans, I said they're daughters of catholicism. Because they believe in a catholic doctrine of Christ being God. This doctrine started in the council of nicea by the catholics. Come on, you got to at least know what you believe in! And I guess the email just so happen to come from the same ip range as yours. Emico 16:03, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am well aware of the Council of Nicea. Like I said, almost all Christians believe that Jesus is God, including many denominations that were never part of the Catholic church. I didn't add the link - it was added when the article was created. And I have no idea what email you are talking about. I don't think you even know what my IP address is.

As far as I am concerned this is a trivial argument about something not very important. Shall we try for a compromise? Let's leave in the basic facts about the Bereans, take out the link to their home page (since it upsets you so much) and take out all the stuff you are adding about them. DJ Clayworth 16:21, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested this to you 7 post before. Go ahead and remove the link. One last thing: Don't take another man's honor as trivial. One day, people will lie about you. We'll see if you think it is still trivial. Another thing, if your church say that the what "founder of the church" mean is not very important, leave that church. It's not of Christ if they don't profess that their founder is Jesus Christ. Have a nice day. Emico 16:30, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiquette alerts 24 May

Outside view requested. I'm an atheist, so I have no axe to grind either way about theological theories. I agree with DJ Clayworth that Emico's commentary doesn't adhere to NPOV; it's also original research.

However, there are actually many churches and ministries called "Berean" - including this historical one - all named for the Bereans of Acts 17:11, with the belief in common that Christians should actively search the scriptures for verification and reject religious stances that fail this test.

So it does make sense not to single out this particular one for a link. However, I'm coming to this conclusion on the basis of the available information, not on Emico's arguments. It's unacceptable for one user to browbeat others into removing a link because he/she doesn't like the theological claims expressed there. RayGirvan 16:52, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to see any of these links in the article. DJ Clayworth 16:57, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here we go! tag teaming. Anyways, Mr Ray missed the point. Talk about etiquette butting in without first getting the whole story. Here's a summary; Mr DJ put a link of a website whose owner is unknown. I tried to find out who the owner is but there were no replies. I simply wanted the website owner to stand behind what he puts out on the web, put his name on it and be ready to defend. I was asking too much. These liar are never going to back up their claims. The website was spewing lies and me and Mr DJ being lovers of truth finally agreed to remove it. Besides, I did not 'browbeat' anything, the link was there and I simply said they won't stand by their claim. What so bad about that? I don't mind what they believe in, as long as they don't tell lies about another person. How about you Mr Ray? Has anyone tell a lie about you? Did you leave it alone? You're a fool if you did. Emico 17:17, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]