Talk:Irresistible force paradox

About WoW

I haven't played WoW, but if it's similar to other rpgs, a two-handed weapon cannot be used together with a shield; given that The Unstoppable Force is a two-handed mace and The Immovable Object is a shield, a player wouldn't be able to use both at the same time, which might be a referrence to the fact that an irresistible force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe.

Existence of irresistable force

I agree that no object is immovable, however, I would argue that not only do irresistable forces exist, but, in fact, all forces are "irresistable". The gravitational attraction from one atom in a hair on your head is acting on the Andromeda galaxy such that, absent a counter-force, the two will be inevitably drawn together (although this would take a nearly infinite amount of time to occur). So, what happens when you try to push a car and it doesn't move ? Well, if you could push without standing on the ground, then you would be pushing the car and the entire Earth, thus changing it's spin rate/direction (by an amount well below anything we can detect). This is because the friction between the car and the Earth has the two locked together, at least for that amount of force. However, since you are standing on the Earth, your feet are creating an equal irresistable force in the other direction, so there is no change at all, as the forces are balanced.

Another example might be the effect of the force of space dust on the Earth. Each particle exerts a tiny force on the Earth when it hits, increasing or decreasing it's rate of spin, or changing the direction of spin, depending on the relative velocity. Again, the effect of each individual grain is undetectable, but the collective effect, over billions of years, may be. This effect, along with the increase in mass of the planet, should on average slow the Earth's rotation over time. Other factors, such as the interaction with the Moon, larger meteors, and solar wind, may also contribute to the slowing of the Earth's rotation. StuRat 11:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually there is one force which may be considered irresistable - the gravity around a black hole. The interesting thing about this is that general relativity allows an object falling in to a black hole to consider itself stationary. This means an immovable object can fall into a black hole without contradicting either premise. -BadJim

One interesting thing to note about this paradox is that it is one that can be replicated virtually to see the effects. For instance, in the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, players have spawned boulders (objects that, due to their programming (or lack thereof), are completely immovable regardless of the situation) on the tracks of an AI-controlled trolley (which itself is programmed to be unstoppable by any barricade whatsoever, and cannot even be slowed). Once the trolley reached to boulder, it simply passed through it. While physically this would be impossible, it is interesting to note that it still allows both objects to retain their properties (that is, if you take 'immovable' by its literal sense and not as something that cannot be penetrated/broken etc.). This is pretty useless in real-world discussion, I realise, but it is food for thought if nothing else.

When an irresistable force meets an immovable object you get an unmeasurable event. Nli10 13:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything "real-world" about this discussion (what objects are immovable? how do we know they'd fit with our current understanding of physics?), so don't worry; it's an interesting contribution. In fact, modeling such a situation on a computer is as close to the "real" thing as I expect one could get. And it makes me wonder...if such an event could occur, does the result depend on how well the universe is programmed?JMBrust 22:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

As stupid as referencing GTA is for science, this is actually a great point. (a particular choice of words will demonstrate my vast scientific knowledge and credibility): Through quantum-like stuff, two things can be in the same place as their waves combine or something. I assume this means they can pass through eachother and junk. This may be the same thing as saying "an irresistable force and immovable object are the same thing", since we're reducing them both to energy waves. Of course, their irresistable nature may imply that the wavey things are already as wavular as they can be, but as you might be able to tell, I've like reached the limit of my own understanding or whatever. -- Vstarre 19:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, when an irresistable force meets an immovable object, you get a lot of fireworks, an irresistable object, and an immovable force. --Carnildo 07:58, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Fireworks? Where would they come from? Sounds like a violation of thermodynamics to me.--- [vstarre] 01:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, I say there is no real paradox, because no object is immovable. (All unbalanced forces are irresistable, however.) StuRat 08:10, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

This is just I throwing my opinion out there. It’s true that this can be taken from a rational or a theoretical point of view. Rationally, in my belief, an immovable object can't exist. As mentioned earlier, there is irresistible energy. Every atom and how ever far you wish to break it down has some effect on the rest of the universe no matter how minute. Energy can't be created or destroyed, just concentrated or displaced. Theoretically or speculatively, if you indeed had an immovable object, the energy could deflect off similar to light, my primary question in response was, what if the immovable object was much like a conduit. After further thought I realized that if it was indeed immovable than it couldn't be made of the same building blocks that construct the rest of the universe. So to me, energy/force, which ever you want to call it could not in fact pass through the object. So the only way the irresistible force/energy could collide with an immovable object without canceling each other our or being their own demise, is if it was refracted off, without actually being "resisted". Yes, probably to any scholar this sounds rather half-baked. It’s my logic so I apologize if anyone found this lack luster. -Sennune

If an unstoppable force were to exist, wouldn't it not be able to stay on Earth because it either: can't be moved by the Earth's rotation; or it would float because it can't be pulled by gravity. Unless gravity is the irresistable force which proves the non-existance of an immovable object? The-Rob 02:01, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Not that I disagree with the statement "The correct solution states that the paradox itself is a contradiction" (given a certain interpretation of what the question is actually asking) but isn't this a little POV? I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this, but I thought I'd put it out there. I'll do a quick, cheap fix, but I'm tempted to wholly rewrite a few parts of the "Solutions" section. Fortunately, I'm supposed to be working. JMBrust 07:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so I gave in and changed a few things around. I tried to be faithful to the intent of what was originally written (and simply put it in a more logical order and, well, improve the style a bit). Maybe some of that stuff shouldn't even be there as is, but, eh. JMBrust 08:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Additional Solution

I always thought this was a simple question with a simple answer: Penetration. Don't over think the problem. --Razmear 11:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The annwer that I heard is that "The Immovable Object will be displaced in time." Don't know if anyone wants to include this answer in the article, though. Hi There 07:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

A solution? If the unmovable object were immovable in relation to the universe, then the unstoppable object would take the immovable object and the entire universe with it.

If the immovable object was immovable in relation to the space-time continuum, expect either instantaneous destruction of the space-time continuum, or the unstoppable object going through the space-time continuum (i.e. through another dimension).

Pop Culture addition

pretty sure Andre vs Hogan match at wrestlemania was referred to using this paradox... dont have the citation though.

solution

if an irristable force hits an immovable object, both of which must have infinite mass, wouldn't the energy transfer cause the immovable object to begin moving as an irristable force in the opposite dirrection from which it was hit, and the irristible force to cease moving and become an immovable object? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.187.85.140 (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

That is clever. However, there are different size infinities, see Infinity, they would have to equal eachother I guess. You're blowing my mind here.

Dragonforce

A car of diamond, the hardest metal known to man, hits a wall of dragonforce, also the hardest metal known to man. What happens?

The car shatters. Diamond, while strong, is also quite brittle. --Carnildo 09:42, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Paradox?

As I understand the word, the question under consideration is not a paradox--in fact, a question should by definition not be considered a paradox, although its answer (if one answer is apparent) may be paradoxical, and many questions can arise from trying to resolve a paradox. However, the more relevant concern that I have is that the word is only supposed to describe something that seems contradictory, but is apparently true . What "truth" is described in this puzzle? What you've got here is more of a weird, speculative philosophical quandary, which is difficult to answer to everybody's satisfaction because it involves a situation that: (1) is not well-defined (in the sense that it is not clear what "irresistible" and "immovable" mean--note BadJim's comment), and (2) might be impossible or inconceivable anyway, depending on what kind of event it's actually supposed to describe. Suggestions? JMBrust 07:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Physics is sloppy.

"Because the force is of infinite energy, as it moves through space, it will be "converted into" or "create" matter of infinite mass spontaneously." This is a totally imprecise and improper use of physics terminology. Force does not have energy, energy does not "create" matter, and scare quotes are not appropriate in technical language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.99.123.63 (talk) 01:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Pheonix Wright might be alluding to Kanji (one of the Japanese symbol sets)

Essentially, the Kanji for Halberd is 矛, the Kanji for Shield is 盾. However, when put together, 矛盾 means "contradict". Kinda like how "hot" means high tempurature, and "dog" is an animal, but "hot dog" is a food. I have not played the Japanese Version of the game however, so I personally can't confirm 100% that this is what Pheonix Wright actually alludes too... Nonethless, I do have two links that confirm this Kanji and fact. Link 1 and Link 2

Also, in episode 21 of "Trigun", the enemy "Hoppered the Gauntlet" retells this precise story. I assume it is one of those stories that is deep within Japanese Culture... but I haven't studied much Japanese either. But considering that it is technically part of their language and we have two confirmed references (Pheonix Wright and Trigun) -- 69.138.232.32 (talk) 19:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC) (Dragontamer)

Its been a few days without a response, so I'll note this in the article. --69.138.232.32 (talk) 08:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC) (Dragontamer)

I am actually unsure of the translation of 矛 is. Google translates it as "pike", the wikipedia page on Kanji currently translates it as "spear", and finally the original link translates it to "halberd". The fact that these weapons are commonly confused in English further confuses the translation effort. I've left the edit as Pole weapon, which describes the class of weapons that pikes, spears, and halberds all fall under. --69.138.232.32 (talk) 08:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)