Talk:Madonna

Criticism and the silly suggestion that Madonna "took on the Vatican"

There should be a massive criticism section as there's no shortage of people with valid, documented things to say about how crappy a person Madonna has been at different parts of her life. She's completely self serving and now is accused of laundering more than 3 million from a charity that tries to force Kabala on innocent Malawi children.

Furthermore to suggest she had a "conflict with the Vatican" implies that the Vatican was as obsessed with her as she has been with it. JPII made one statement that people who want to follow the canon of the Catholic Church would not support a woman who was in the process of exploiting young girls and their sexuality to no end so long as she could make a few bucks. (She comes off more like a perverted rapacious old movie producer than any kind of feminist icon). That doesn't mean the Vatican was engaguing anything with her...solely making a statement about how to be a Catholic in good standing when a lot of Catholics were drawn to her constant use of words that only have Catholic connotations.

It is her who always brings up the popes and again in a completely self-serving way tries to set herself up as the heroic wonder sex girl woman who courageously takes on the mean old Vatican and it's pleas for people like her to stop inspiring women to kill their children.

Once again Wiki delivers what is expected...biased editing and laughable claims.

Derek Jeter

Anyone have information about her Derek Jeter, which is speculated to have lead to her divorce with Guy Richie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.8.152 (talk) 16:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect. She was speculated to have been with Alex Rodriguez. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.151.26 (talk) 09:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Madonna - entertainer?

I was wondering what the consensus was on this Madonna page as it being titled Madonna (entertainer)? I think this resembles more a description of someone in a circus or enterains kids at birthday parties, IMO it does not sound right. She mentions in an interview with Larry King here [1] that she sees herself as a "performance artist". Would it not be a better idea to rename it "Madonna (performer)" or "Madonna (performance artist)"? I was wondering what everyone thinks? JWAD ^talk 23:19, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The term "entertainer" is standard among celebrities who hold a number of different occupations (actress/singer/etc). Ex: Chris Brown (entertainer), among others. Its simple enough as is. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 05:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Prince (musician), I pass no comment. — R² 12:29, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

There might be some inconsistency in Wikipedia articles, but I think "Entertainer" is better than "Performing artist". I think any real difference in perception (circus, birthday parties, magician, etc.) between the two terms is very much an individual matter. For example, my personal perception is that "performing artist" sounds more like a circus performer than entertainer, but that's just my perception. My point is, this will be different for every person, so I don't think we need to change specific articles simply because one term "sounds" better to one person. It would be helpful if Wikipedia were more consistent, but even that is problematic because there are differences (sometimes obvious, sometimes subtle) between entertainers. For now, however, my opinion is leave it as "Entertainer". Ward3001 (talk) 16:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

OK thanks I understand now why its used. JWAD ^talk 15:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick question in relation to the above. Could her page be just known as Madonna, with the Madonna page changed to Madonna (disambiguation) instead? There could also be a sub-heading link to that page. I know there is some controversy surrounding this as some would say Mary (mother of Jesus) is the original Madonna but the main page for that person is not know as "Madonna" it is "Mary". JWAD ^talk 10:59, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

That was discussed long ago and is in one of the archives. Overwhelming consensus was a resounding NO. Madonna (Mary Mother of God) and other uses take precedent over the entertainer, as they have historical significance, while someone born merely 50 years ago, does not (in comparison to the origin of the term). The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 11:20, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

"Madonna (Entertainer)" seems like the best description. But who would search Wikipedia for this title? I prefer to be instantly taken to the page I want when I search Wikipedia rather than more pages in between so maybe "Madonna (musician)" would be more appropriate even though it isn't the most accurate. As for redirecting straight to "Madonna" like Jwad suggests, that's crazy. The term 'Madonna' is used in everyday English to refer to Mary, mother of Jesus. Even somebody like myself who refers to the Bible as a fairy tale can see that Mary, mother of Jesus should take precedent above Madonna (entertainer). Or do you suggest we refer to Mary, mother of Jesus as "Madonna (fictional character)" instead?--217.203.153.152 (talk) 00:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Madonna 1983-1989

I came across this article today while looking up greatest hits of Madonna. When I googled it, the first result said "Madonna 1983-1989", which was an article on Wikipedia. This is a limited edition greatest hits compilation released only in Japan. Is this worth mentioning at all in the article? And if so, should there also be expansion of the Madonna 1983-1989 article? El cangri386 ^{Sign! or Talk} 01:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD would probably be for the best. — R² 13:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Her Birth Name is Maria Louise Ciccone- not Madonna

Madonnalynn (talk) 14:15, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

We know, Madonna was chosen per a thread higher up. — R² 19:28, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

No, her birth name is, Madonna. "Maria" was made up by the Italian press. Madonna's mother's name is also Madonna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.161.238 (talk) 16:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Is this necessary?

"In late 1990, Madonna dated Tony Ward,[187] a bisexual model and porn star who starred in her music videos for "Cherish" (1989) and "Justify My Love" (1990). "

Why is it necessary to say that Tony Ward is bisexual? So what? Any mention about his sexuality should appear in his article and not Madonna's.--217.203.153.152 (talk) 00:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree, I removed it. — R² 00:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

American Roman Catholics

If she follows Kabbalah she shouldn't be listed as Roman Catholic but Jewish. 86.29.230.97 (talk) 20:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

An interest in Kabbalah doesn't mean she has converted to Judaism. The article can't identify her as Jewish without a source indicating that she has officially converted. Ward3001 (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you'll find Kabbalah is a Jewish religion, I converted myself 20 years ago and would hate to be "labeled" as anything else. Madonna is more than interested in Kabbalah - it's her chosen faith. Many thanks 86.29.238.180 (talk) 12:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you did. The article is about Madonna. And there is no source cited that states she converted to anything. Studying something is not equivalent to converting. Please read WP:V; we can't put something in the article without a reliable source that confirms it. And read WP:NOR and WP:NPOV; we can't put something in an article just because it's your opinion. This is not a blog or your personal webpage; it's an encyclopedia. Ward3001 (talk) 17:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh my goodness, my post was made in good faith; I was trying to be friendly. There was no need to be so rude, I only asked a question. 86.29.238.216 (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I was stating facts, not being rude. And after the necessity for proper sourcing has already been explained once, you're pushing the matter by continuing to question why it can't be added. Did you bother to read the links to Wikipedia policies? Ward3001 (talk) 20:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Tours

It should mention that she appeared in Long Island on March 12, 2009 to perfrom with Britney Spears in her The Circus Starring: Britney Spears tour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.95.132 (talk) 01:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

It's really not important, much better in the article dedicated to the tour. Best. — R² 01:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Singer Versus Recording Artist

I looked into Wikipedia's definitions of singer and recording artist and Madonna definitely fits into the singer category even moreso than the recording artist category since she actually vocalizes (not just record music).

Technically speaking, just like Geri Halliwell, Kelly Osbourne, Ashlee Simpson and all the others most-hated vocalists, Madonna is a singer.

Madonna co-wrote most of her songs and wrote most of her lyrics. Singer-songwriter is definitely more appropriate than just recording artist for the intro of the article.

Just because many only see her as some marketing doll, negate her vocal talent and dismiss the fact she co-wrote most of her songs (and wrote most of her lyrics) doesn't mean the article should reflect that.

I know I'm gonna be called a fan that only wants to glamorize her but everything I just wrote is true. Singer-songwriter is more appropriate and justified. Insisting on negating that is what's fanatical in my book... Singer-songwriter is more just, true and broad. Recording artist is very much restrictive. Israell (talk) 14:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

The lead does not have to contain everything about her. More details are given in the infobox and in the remainder of the article. I wouldn't have a problem with "singer" instead of "recording artist", but I think she is known more for the songs she recorded, her live peformances, and her acting. I realize she has written some of her music, but I don't believe that's her greatest claim to fame. And I really don't think the article reflects her to be a "marketing doll" at the expense of her true talents. In fact, her ability to market herself and repeatedly re-invent herself is one reason for her longevity in a business that is quick to dismiss someone after a short time in the spotlight. Ward3001 (talk) 16:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I kinda spearheaded the use of "recording artist" in most article because its a broad term, and much more encompassing that "singer" or "singer-songwriter". Most superstars like Madonna sing, song write, and produce, amongst other talents, but shoving all that info into the lead sentence makes it look cluttered (hence a broad label like recording artist). The infobox specifies all she does, so its not as if we're ignoring all her vocations. Secondly, singer-songwriter typically indicates someone who writes, composes and sings all or most of their own material (like imogen heap). Madonna has always had someone co-write/compose her songs, in which case she is referred to as a singer and songwriter as opposed to the more specific singer-songwriter. Featured articles such as Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson and Gwen Stefani currently use the term "recording artist" with "singer/songwriter" in the occupation section of the infobox. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 19:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Madonna's documentary about Malawi - I Am Because We Are

In 2008, Madonna's documentary about children in Malawi was released. It is entitled I Am Because We Are and was produced by Angela Becker and directed by Nathan Rissman. The production company was Debutante, Inc.

Official Description: In Malawi, a country of 12 million people, so many children without parents has caused irreparable damage. This film attempts to explore what is going on in the heads and hearts of these orphans, and what the future holds for them. Follow real-life stories of children and the parents who have died, and explore all sides of the dilemma, from the responsibility to the victim mentality. Narrated by Madonna with interviews with Bill Clinton and Desmond Tutu.

The full-length documentary can be watched online for free at hulu: http://www.hulu.com/i-am-because-we-are.

Ivkaadam (talk) 16:08, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

New adoption

Will the latest on Madonna adopting a little girl from Malawi be added? It's too easy for me to do it. It was on NBC and the AP wire, not just the tabloids. FotoPhest (talk) 13:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Best let things play out, and see what, if anything, actually happens. — R² 15:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)