Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs

Official Airplay Chart

Hi,i created two pages Popular (The Veronicas song) and I Wanna Be In Love, however both are deleted as the only chart they charted on was the Official Australian Airplay chart. I think they shouldn't be deleted for this reason because an airplay chart is still an official chart. And both songs were official singles.Billy4kate,(talk)

Official Singles

When creating pages for official singles after they havent charted, why do they get deleted?. I think that if the song was official released and has a music video,track listing it should be able to stay and not be deleted. Especially if the song is a "digital only" single. If thats not the case then why isn't "Sanctuary" by "Gabriella Cilmi" deleted yet when it hasn't charted?. See my thoughts are that if a song hasn't charted but is officially released, it should be allowwed to have an article, because it's not just a track off the album, it's a single. User:Billy4kate,(User talk:Billy4kate)

Also, if a single can be deleted for not charting why can't an album?.

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:41, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

pendulum song cult citation

looking at the propane nightmares page, it occours to me that the person who wrote the atricle may have got the wrong cult as they they claim the music video is based on the heavens gate cult whereas it seems more like the peoples temple based on the location, the methods etc and the ends result. by the way i didnt know where to put this so i put it here, sorry if its in the wrong place

Amr40 (talk) 10:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

The best place to mention this would probably be that page's discussion page. You could change it yourself, if you feel up to it. I caution that neither the existing version or your corrections, should be there without some kind of citation/reference. However, I believe that correct info without a ref is better than incorrect info without a ref. If you're certain that's what's going on, do it. -Freekee (talk) 01:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Question

This user and I are having a minor problem about whether or not "Vivid: Kissing You, Sparkling, Joyful Smile" should be listed as a single for Best & USA. The user is saying that it doesn't count as a single for the album because it was used to promote the artist tour (which he hasn't proved a source for). Then he says because all three songs aren't included on the album it doesn't count as a single for Best & USA. I replied saying that since a song was included it's a single, because this has happened in the past with the artist singles. For example "Key of Heart / Dotch". "Key of Heart" was included on the album Made in Twenty (20), "Dotch" was not. Anyway I probably strayed from the point, but to prevent a edit war I want to known if it counts as a single. ^~Moon~月と暁^~Sunrise~ 11:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

First of all, with a single, it's not the purpose, it's the timing. In other words, it doesn't matter what the single was supposedly released to support, it matters that the song came from an album. But you have this problem that the single was released nine months before the album, and it is a compilation album. So it sounds to me like the song didn't come from the album. As for that user's other point, the A side is what counts, when determining what album the single came from. They can put whatever they want on the B side. -Freekee (talk) 01:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The whole thing is a A-side, it's just that only one song from the A-side appeared on the album. ^~Moon~月と暁^~Sunrise~ 01:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I think because the single was 9 months prior to the album and only includes one song on the album itself than it shouldn't be counted. Not every single has to have a album to be a part of, and like the user above says, this is a compilation album. All the tracks on this album were from singles. I want to be more compromising. I was saying it was in support of a tour because that is what the article for the single itself said, which you removed. It may count as a single but not necessarily a single from this album. A single on it's own which is common to happen as well.Danielquasar (talk) 04:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

That wasn't your reasoning for it not being on the album though was it? Your reason was "it was to support her tour", and because a user says it was released "nine months before the album" that's part of your reason now? As I said above "Key of Heart / Dotch" is just like "Vivid", the only difference it's a double A-side. "Dotch" wasn't included on the album so "Key of Heart / Dotch"" isn't a single from Made in Twenty (20)? You based that on unsourced material which per Wikipedia standards can be removed if there isn't a source. ^~Moon~月と暁^~Sunrise~ 05:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not adding his reason in to mine. I shouldn't of had to use the timing as a point. It's obvious that it was released 9 months prior. Released at the beginning of the tour at that time. If you want to get picky then explain Utada's COLORS. It was released on a best of THEN an album. So which should it be listed for? I just don't understand why you don't see what I am seeing. If you think it should be listed because one song appears on the album then list them all because they all appear on the album. Does this not make sense? Danielquasar (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Writing credit vs Artist who originally released a song

There is some discussion over when it is, or is not appropriate to mention the source of a cover, or remake of a song which resulted also into a small discussion that is more general to discussion of all song articles. This project might be interested. It is at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music#Writing_credit_vs_original_artist_when_mentioning_a_song. - Steve3849 ^talk 06:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Poll: autoformatting and date linking

This is to let people know that there is only a day or so left on a poll. The poll is an attempt to end years of argument about autoformatting which has also led to a dispute about date linking. Your votes are welcome at: Wikipedia:Date formatting and linking poll. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 09:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Peer review of Bale Out

The article Bale Out is currently at peer review, comments appreciated at the subpage, Wikipedia:Peer review/Bale Out/archive1. Cirt (talk) 08:40, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Naming conventions

The project page suggests that the naming should be after the artist. In the example given it suggests "Because (The Beatles song)". This can cause problems because a song can be recorded by numerous artists and the original artist may not always be the most notable version - If we were to change this to naming after the songwriter i.e. "Because (Lennon/McCartney) song" because this is factual and doesn't change irrespective of who records the song. It also helps to stop irregularities such as Fever (Madonna song). This would only apply where there are two or more songs with the same name. Does anybody agree with me? --Richhoncho (talk) 11:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I've said a number of times that the naming scheme for songs sucks, mainly because most of the articles are about the singles and not the songs (there are nearly always two songs per single, fairly frequently more). I recommend using the same as films - if a disambiguation is needed then the year of the release should be used, if two singles with exactly the same title are produced in the same year then the artist would be a further disambiguation.--Alf ^melmac 11:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I like your thinking, but I can't think that listing the Madonna song under Fever (1956 song) would go down very well with Madonna fans, especially as it is no longer a 1956 song! Furthermore a song may be released in say, 1980, and not be notable, covered, say in 2007 by another artist and become notable by WP standards, do we list that song as "Song Title (1980 song)" or "Song Title (2007 song)"? That is why I suggested the songwriter(s), because there can be no dispute, or at least less disputes, and at least songwriters never write 2 different songs with the same title for obvious reasons.

While you have raised the matter, we have songs which are categorised under several years. Is there a view on this? --Richhoncho (talk) 11:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear I meant that the year of release would be disambiguation, and I'd really prefer it be "Song name (19~~ single)" than "Song name (19~~ song)" as virtually all articles are about the single not the song - they just usually use the title of the song on the A-side as the name of the single (though not always). . In your example that would be Fever (1993 single) although in that particular case song/single makes little difference as all tracks on most of the singles are all versions of the same song. My hint - what do we say pre-formatted in the box under the image - "Single by Madonna".--Alf ^melmac 11:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Then, if I am understanding you, you are suggesting that the song "Fever" should be listed separately everytime a notable version is released as a single, and if there is a notable version that is not released as a single, shouldn't that also have it's own page? --Richhoncho (talk) 12:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Yup that's pretty much it, some singles are notable enough for their own pages, and (imho) some artists should be viewed like the books of very notable authors - any work by those are considered notable by default of the author being so notable (I can find that in the guidance if needs be. But no the non-notable ones shouldn't have page on their own, but if there is a song which is notable but has not been released as a single, yes that should have a page about the song.--Alf ^melmac 12:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The only point of agreement between us is authors - which was my point in the first place - list the songs under the authors! With regard to singles, it seems strange that most companies finish up with a spam notice on their pages, yet singles are never tagged as such, and singles are only a product. As for separate entries for the same song, perish the thought, Wikipedia doesn't need another million stub-class entries of anything!. Listing as "Song name (19~~ single)" seems to be splitting hairs, after all it is still a "song." This is further convoluted by the fact that with downloads, there aren't really any "singles" any more (unless you count those "spammed to the radio stations")- or, conversely, every song is a single anyway i.e. available as a single download. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

One question then - what is the current disambiguation for albums?

I agree we don't need "million stub-class entries of anything", but millions won't be notbale enough for inclusion. The not recognising of singles as opposed to songs isn't splitting hairs, it's mislabelling, plain and simple. I also think that it's rather snobbish (not you particuarly- generally how it's been done) to reduce singles to 'only a product'. A single is a commercial product, just as much as a film or book is, but they don't have to be all piled into one huge page where the reader is expected to wade through the trash (like putting that Maddona song on the song page - "perish the thought"? that is exactly what you have there!!) and I agree that should be ok, it's real snobbish to treat singles in such an inferior way. I can still walk into a record shop and buy a single so there really are single still, despite other formats outweighing their 'sales. "every song is a single anyway i.e. available as a single download" is plainly not quite right - a song has lyrics (we can't reproduce those lyrics until it's 50 years old though), it is written in a particular key, in a particular time signature, it will have a particular structure - if you can find me an article about a song which covers all those points then I might be persuaded. Singles on the other hand have a B-side, they (usually) have artwork and cover notes, there will things to say about the production, who the recording artist(s) were, the priduction crew, timing, venue etc. Songs != Singles and the more we ignore the more mixed up and difficult it will be to unravel. Remember that by virtue of the author any book by that author can be considered as notable, if the author is sufficiently notable. I have no problems having every single listed by every sufficiently notable artist as we are pretty much at that situation already, I'll repeat - it's snobbish to devalue their singles into ghastly massive pages where the reader, previously happily clicking the link from the last single arrives at a mucking fuddle and has to wade through every other version of the song... --Alf ^melmac 13:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to denigrate singles generally. Bit off-topic and one of the bees in my particular bonnet. Not relevant here, I'll leave it for another time. There are a few good articles about songs, here's one Just My Imagination (Running Away with Me). It has info boxes with good navigation, details regarding the song, insrumentation etc. You mentioned films, how about plays? You wouldn't consider listing plays by headline actor(s), would you? I'd like to see more people join in here. Just you and me shooting the wind isn't enough. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Well that article is nice, but it appears to have very little information about the song itself ("A full orchestral arrangement with strings and French horns adorning a bluesy rhythm track and guitar line provides the instrumentals" and then a viewpoint on what the lyrics mean - which is, if we think about it, about the recorded arrangement and not the song itself) but a lot about the single, it's production etc. - that is my main point - the article is about the single not the song. What key is it written in?, although we are given a little background as to what made the song come to be, where was the song written and if there is a specific reason, why? How many verses is it, is it verse chorus verse chorus (ABAB)? Does it have a bridge and if so what happens in it? etc? I'll agree the two of us chewing it over is insufficient... my apologies if my wording is sharp, it's one of my bonnetted bees as well.

I'm not sure what the current practise for disambiguating plays is, but I do note film productions have seperate pages from the play - List of plays made into feature films lists a number of them. Um, d'uh, I suddenly get the point - if we had two notable productions of a play, how would we disambiguate? I don't know, my guess would be for the name of the Production Company if the productions were made in the same year.--Alf ^melmac 13:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Worth a quick glance at West Side Story major new performances of the musical are listed separately within the article. FWIW the definition of song composition (i.e. the copyrightable bit), is words and music which actually means melody line, not the chords - which can, and are often changed depending on the performer, the key can change to suit the singer, and sometimes the instrumentation - flat keys for keyboard players and sharp keys for guitarists. Genre is a whole different ballgame. I may have a different slant on all this than you, If I look at a song I want to know it's antecedents, I don't want to look at Fever (Madonna song) and think that's it, The song has been round a few years and probably will be around a few more - might even be a hit for somebody else! Might be worth thinking about the 50s and 60s when there were often 2 versions of the same song in the UK charts at the same time! I do however agree that a lot more depth regarding song construction would be nice.

BTW, I have spent most of the weekend trying to get Category:Songs by songwriter into some kind of order, added about 50/60 new songwriters into the category. Regards --Richhoncho (talk) 14:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

We do have a different slant on this, I would expect the readers of Madonna's discography would be pretty wierded out if they clicked the 'next single link' on Bad Girl (Madonna song) and found themselves at Fever (1956 song) with all of the details of the Fever (Madonna song) moved to that page, along with other versions. I would expect those people wanting information about the song itself to be pretty short-changed by the 1956 song article after having found the disambiguation page and then chosen from there. Some songs will have originally been written down as just a melody line without any harmony or chords, but that fact in itself would be of interest to me (as a perfoming musician), if they key is changed for a recording - whether the reason is for the keyboardists or guitarists to have easier fingering - I consider that information encyclopedic. Where the melody was written down with chords (in whatever format) and those harmonies/chords are changed, again, that is of interest. Converse to your interest, if I am browsing through the releases of a particular artist or band, I find previous incarnations of songs generally of little interest. The second of the two line introduction of that Madonna song says "It is a cover version of the song by Eddie Cooley and Otis Blackwell." so at least the writers of that page link you to the page containing the information you want (though I'd be surprised if you were looking for the song and you found yourself at the Madonna page without becoming aware of the antecedants).

I would be quite happy with the end result being a page for a song containing brief summaries and links to singles considered notable, both sides are then satisified, those who want info on the song read the song page, those who have a particular interest in a particular recording don't have to wade through other stuff to get to the info they want and their surfing is not interupted by our wants as writers to make it how we want (1 song = 1 page + all stuff goes there). Don't mention genre to me or might have 'one of those turns' - very subjective stuff <shudders> --Alf ^melmac 15:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Check out Make You Feel My Love, although it has none of the component parts we'd both like to see, it does have 4 single info boxes and 6 templates. Also there is no reason why the navigation can't take you to the say, the Adele version direct. With 4 different article, each would would to be lsited to Category:Songs written by Bob Dylan. Looks like we agree on genre <somebody just trampled all over my bonnet, too LOL> --Richhoncho (talk) 15:26, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm highly tempted to say that's about as much space as those recordings deserve :p but seriously, is that really all the information available for those recordings, that's pretty thin - the page doesn't clutter for that reason, imagine the same with the amount of info that the Madonna 'song' has four times over :s We don't have the same approach to films, radio and television adaptation of notable stories (Dracula (disambiguation) and The Lord of the Rings (disambiguation) for example), notable radio series that find their way into other media (The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (disambiguation) for example), the root here is that all of those (ok most of those in Dracula's case) are the same story - the same set of words - in different media, when it comes to notable songs though, overall we have a different standard - we are preferring to have them all on one page.--Alf ^melmac 15:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually no, in the Dracula instance they are re-written with a different screenwriter, the original novel being no more than a stepping stone, whereas we agree that all the different versions of the song have the same songwriter(s). The Hitchhikers are different formats although I don't want to open the 7", 12" EP, vinyl, CD and download formats as a possibility of yet more articles. If you take away the different mixes and releases of the Madonna version of Fever (which I really do think is worthless!) there's really not much difference between the 2 articles. Then I note the The McCoys are also entitled to a Fever article under your methods. BTW There is a reason that these things should be discussed in WP independently of other articles, one of us could take the highest common denominator and the other the lowest common denominator and we really would get nowhere! --Richhoncho (talk) 16:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

My point is that we have double standards in dealing with notable recording of songs as opposed to other media in like situations. There are a lot of films telling the same story of Stoker's - each film gets a page no matter whether it's notable or not as it's a film, it's the snobbishness about singles and forcing them into one song pigeon-hole. TLOTR likewise, exactly the same story, some media allows a page because it's in that media - that's a double standard. There is a heap of more information about the recording in Madonna's song article than in the 1956 song, irrespective of the listifications, but I'm not wanting to see that article merged as I consider the ethic about sufficiently notable authors being allowed any article about any of their books by default to be transferrable to musical artists and their output. Are the McCoys sufficiently notable for that consideration - I notice that none of the singles or albums have an article about them, so my initial guess would be that no, they are not in a similar grouping of sufficiently notables, nor would any of their singles independently have sufficent notability for an article. Again my point is, that there are sufficiently notable mutliple versions of songs to allow them pages to themselves, particularly if by a demonstrably notable enough artist to note all their output. Saying that just because the format is a single and therefore is a song, which in turn all belong on the same page, is a) patently false and b) using a double standard.--Alf ^melmac 17:49, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, according, ahem, Wikipedia, The McCoys peaked at #7 in the Billboard charts with Fever, so according to present notability standards that is notable. Here's a partial list of people who have covered Fever, I say partial because BMI/ASCAP lists are notoriously suspect. BMI entry for Fever. If I had the devil in me today, I'd create a category:Artists who have covered Fever. LOL. If you discount "celebrity" I'd say the song is more important than the performers, it's already been around for 3 generations and, I suspect most of versions have been, or will be, consigned to the nostalgia bin of the old peoples' home. BTW Are there any song or single articles that you could point me to that you feel are of a good standard? Added Here's a great reason not to add different versions, how about 2 or more articles on Let It Be Me and all the cover versions being added as it is in this article. LOL --Richhoncho (talk) 18:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, number 7 eh <looks impressed as he'd never heard of it> then I see no reason for it not to have a page. If I had the devil in me I'd template the infobox for every single one of those artists's singles onto that one page just to prove the point, but that would be, erm, making a point :p I'd agree though most of those versions would be consigned to the nostalgia bin but if reliable sourced info arrives about each and everyone of those singles, what's to stop an editor making that page impossible to load and read, erm, more information laden. In my opinion Dixie (song) is actually about the song (hooray) and I consider that to be good. Baby Boy (song) is pretty good, it tells me about the key the song is written in, the time signature and even the tempo - to boot it throws in the genre <shudders> and the reasons behind it's writing, as does Cool (song) (we obviously have a very comptetent Gwen Stefani fan as we have Rich Girl (Gwen Stefani song) as a featured article also, and that, again, does include info on the key, time signature etc.) but my all time favourite has to be Yesterday (song) - very good writing up of the music section, with excellent write-up of the motivation and writing process.

Eeep - did you have to - I was about to have tea, that put me right of it :p Yes Let It Be Me is the sort of nightmare I fear.--Alf ^melmac 18:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, very good articles, if that was the standard I'd be happy to go along with what others decided (even though I was hard pressed not to add a fact tag to "The song has been praised by both critics and music industry personnel. "Baby Boy"...."). The reality is that very few song, single or album articles will ever reach anything like those standards, will never say more than "this existed" and in plenty of cases there is nowhere to find the information, all people associated with the song having long gone. Then adding the stuff we would both like to see very quickly becomes original research. I do see where you are coming from, can even see some (but not enough!) justification for your stand, a song is a song, with writers, performers, arrangers, producers, record labels, publishers, just because it's slapped on a piece of plastic and hauled round the radio stations doesn't in itself make the song more important. I think we've discussed this! Regards. --Richhoncho (talk) 20:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

You identified an issue with the disambiguation of the articles within the scope of this project, I fed back that I had identified the same problem, but from a different angle and see a different root as the problem and therefore it needs a different solution: That is no reason to now say that that's the end of the discussion, the issues remain.

I vaguely resent your final summing up but I won't get worked up about it as the over generalisation is clearly unwaranted, at no point did I suggest a free-for-all on this issue for any and all singles, I thought I was rather clear about notability whether inherited or per the current music guidelines. I'm confused by your rationale that changing the disambiguation to singles when about singles and songs when about songs would lead to original research, as you say, those articles without that information will likely stay smaller than the no-brainers for being superb articles like "Yesterday".--Alf ^melmac 22:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, no offence was meant, we had a very useful discussion, but ultimately it led nowhere because there was no hope of concensus with only 2 people involved at the time. I don't want, and never wanted, the disambiguation to be "singles" (That doesn't preclude categorization as singles) What I started with was that "Because" should be distinquished by the writer, not the performer, so it should be "Because (Lennon/McCartney song). Then we got side-tracked into the number of versions. There are plenty of notable songs which have never been released as singles. In fact, the more I think about it, the tag "song (single)" really is meaningless. Again, it was a good talk, you made me think and that's always a good thing! --Richhoncho (talk) 18:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Comfort break - song disambiguation

Sorry to interrupt your little discussion, here, but I thought I'd toss in a couple of cents... First of all, I like the current system of one article per song, multiple sections and infoboxes included. With that in mind, I like Rich's suggestion to change primary DAB term to composer. If a lot of people show up and declare they agree with Alf, and would like to divide all the single articles, I still suggest that this form of disambiguation be considered for appropriate articles. In other words, song articles that cover more than one version. -Freekee (talk) 02:18, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

No, thank you for joining in the discussion. I never suggested dismantling those listified articles, did I? No. Please don't put way and beyond what I say. Thanks.--Alf ^melmac 05:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The Notability guideline says: [i]f a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article. On top of that, the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guideline specifies further instances of notability within the field. making the naming scheme force all songs irrespective of their individual merits is contrary to both those guidelines, as well as not reflecting what editors have been doing (creating stand alone articles which meet those criteria).--Alf ^melmac 05:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

sorry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but I know there are people who would prefer to break up the articles, or at least would like to write new ones this way. -Freekee (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

My uninformed two cents: every choice kinda sucks. With this profound insight out of the way, I think the really stupid mistake was to start writing articles about singles in the first place. As pointed out above, singles are more akin to a product than to a work of art. You'll find plenty of material discussing albums and songs but actual meaningful commentary about a single is very rare. The B-side is most of the time, well, a B-side and has no real relevance. Also I find no value in having 5 different articles about various covers of a song: in fact it's more interesting to have a single article where one can actually compare the versions. The (19xx song) is not really that interesting and I think the more common (Band whatever song) is more intuitive than (Author whoever song) since many well-known songs have been written and composed by people who've remained in the shadows. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 22:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I would possibly agree that we should have had better criteria for including singles/song in the encylopedia earlier on, but we do have a reasonable number of articles which are informative enough for the readers, so I couldn't agree that we made a mistake allowing them at all. Re 'actual meaningful commentary about a single being very rare' - whether meaningful or not (I'm not sure an agreement on what constitutes that is possible), per se, I find more information about singles being available that about songs, but where there is information about songs, frequently there is more info about that than the singles.--Alf ^melmac 14:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Going back to Fever again, or any other similarly covered song, it is my contention that the song is notable in its own right, the fact it has been recorded by so many people in so many styles is testament to that. We've established it's charted with performances with at least 3 performers. To divorce any article on the song demotes that history, removes "encyclopedia" from the article and even negates the true importance of why somebody should record a cover version. I also dislike "Fever (1956) song" because it date stamps something which has proven to be timeless. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Looking at Because (song) for the first time, I am really surprised at the article, it has no sources and the other has to take further disambiguation, I think in this instance the problem should be solved by making Because (The Beatles song) the (song) article - it is far more likely that a reader typing in "Because (song)" will want the Beatles than Guy d'Hardelot and Edward Teschemacher - I suggest it gets moved to Because (d'Hardelot/Teschemacher song) and the relevant associated housework be done.--Alf ^melmac 23:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

CfD debate of interest

People involved in the project might want to chime in at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_April_13#Category:Songs_with_music_by_Helmy_Kresa. Should we keep categories of the form songs by JohnDoe when there is no article about John Doe? I suppose people involved with the project have the best perspective to evaluate this sort of question. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 22:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I nominated these categories, and for evenness I also nominated a further 5 at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_April_10#Category:Songs_written_by_Dave_Bennett. No category listed has more than one entry and none have a relevant article. Depending on how these go, I have a few more nominations, but I will not be nominating any with 2 or more songs in the category irrespective of whether there is an article or not. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Lalala Shiawase no Uta

Notable? If not, could someone sent to speedy? I would do it myself, but I'm not familiar with the criteria for songs.Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 06:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The article does not fit the criteria for speedy deletion. According to the article, it peaked at number five on a chart, but isn't specified. If that can't be verified, a redirect or prod is appropriate. — Σxplicit 06:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

"God Bless the Child" consistently mistitled

It's not just on Wikipedia, and so it's easy to see how the widespread error would get replicated there. The correct title of the song (which you can verify by going out and buying a copy of the sheet music) is: "God Bless' the Child". There doesn't appear to be any way a user can correct this mistake, so I'm posting about it here in hopes someone with high enough permissions will do so.

Why is this important (after all, it's just an apostophe!)? It's important because the apostrophe complete changes the meaning by 180°. Many, perhaps most, people, hearing the title and being unaware of its correct punctuation, assume the song is some kind of invocation of divine blessing -- even though in this context the lyrics actually make no sense at all.

With the apostrophe, the true meaning of the song snaps into focus. The apostrophe implies a following -es, making the title actually: "God Blesses the Child that's got his own". This is an expression akin to, "With your new diploma and $4, you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks!"

Or, "If you want a blessing from god, it's best to have one in hand already. Because, when it comes to that god-stuff, it's all just pretend." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doggod2 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Assesement

Hi. I was wondering how can I obtain assesement for the articles I created? e.g. De Mí Enamórate and Tutta la vita.

Thanks. Jaespinoza (talk) 20:46, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Contentious Categories for Merger nomination - Johnny Mercer

Basically, there's 3 categories for Johnny Mercer, Category:Songs with lyrics by Johnny Mercer, category:Songs by Johnny Mercer and Category:Songs with music by Johnny Mercer. I've proposed a merger under Songs written by... I feel that more expertise should be added and see if a real concensus can be reached at CfR discussion. --Richhoncho (talk) 22:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

If You're Not the One

Could I please have some input on improving the If You're Not the One article, which I am currently trying to turn into a Good Article but eventually hope it will be featured. I have been following the structure of a currently featured song article, "Cool" by Gwen Stefani but need help on the writing process and other background information. Can people post a message on my talk page. Thanks. 03md 08:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Question on categorization

Using Sunday Morning as an example, what's the policy when it comes to adding a category such as this "Matthew Sweet songs" cat? I would understand the article having it if the cover version was notable (released as a single perhaps), but it's just one apparently non-notable cover among many by artists the article isn't tagged with. It's inconsistent and seems a little biased to me by unduly highlighting one artist in particular w/o any real reason.  Mbinebri  ^{talk ←} 03:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

The Matthew Sweet version is not blue linked into the article, so I would say, "non-notable" in this instance. My objection is to the term "Matthew Sweet songs" (and all the the cats named similarly) which is supposed to mean "Recorded by Matthew Sweet" - whoever else recorded this song, it is really a "Velvet Underground" song. --Richhoncho (talk) 05:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the same thing. There is a sort of false ownership implied with such categories. I think how it's handled in Working Class Hero is the standard we should stick to: it's categorized as a John Lennon song, but also includes the Green Day category because their version was released and charted as a single (and would thus warrant its own article if it wasn't a cover), while the numerous non-notable covers of the song are duly mentioned but not included in categories.  Mbinebri  ^{talk ←} 06:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. If the covering artist's version is notable enough to have its own section in the song article, then go ahead and categorize it. -Freekee (talk) 18:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Are they Christian

How are the members of Billy Talent Christians when the name of their live CD/DVD is 666? Just wondering. (70.30.100.205 (talk) 03:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC))

Sound bite assistance

I've rewritten What'd I Say (song) and nominated it for GA. I think it might have a shot for FA. I'm interested in including two bites from the song: the first of first 30 seconds of the electric piano riffs and the transition into the regular piano. The second after the false ending with the call and response where the calls are particularly provocative. I've never loaded any sounds to Wikipedia before. If someone wants to roll their eyes and just do it that would be neat. If someone wants to instruct me how to record it to fade out after 30 seconds and then upload it, that would be swell too. --Moni3 (talk) 20:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Number-one albums vs. number-one songs categories

Up for CFD at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 May 12#Category:Billboard 200 number-one albums is a category I created (technically, recreated) for number-one albums on the Billboard 200 chart. Number-one albums categories had been deleted by previous consensus in 2006 (see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 July 15#Number-one album categories). And yet, there are dozens of "number-one songs" categories. I think there should be similar categorization of both number-one songs and number-one albums, regardless of number, or the songs categories should be removed for the same reason as the albums categories. I'm seeking input from knowledgeable contributors at the WikiProject Albums and WikiProject Songs organizations. Thank you for your time. --Wolfer68 (talk) 16:21, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation

This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under its scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 21:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Llorando se fue

Hello..... Unfortunately I cannot correct the following sentence on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambada_(Kaoma_song.

"The lyrics of "Lambada", which is also the name of a Brazilian music style, was an unauthorized translation of the song "Chorando se foi", an acoustic song recorded by the Bolivian group Los K’jarkas.[citation needed]"

It has to be: "The lyrics of "Lambada", which is also the name of a Brazilian music style, was an unauthorized translation of the song "LLorando se fue", an acoustic song recorded by the Bolivian group Los K’jarkas.[citation needed]".

The original song is in Spanish, and it is called "Llorando se fue", not Portuguese "Chorando se foi". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Red angel1981 (talk • contribs) 21:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Incense and Peppermints article

In the "Incense and Peppermints" article, the band name Strawberry Alarm Clock needs to be hot-linked to the article on that band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.55.112.115 (talk) 18:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

 Done, though this would have best been placed on that article's talk page. Or you could have been bold and linked it yourself. — Σxplicit 19:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Homeless Heart

I need an experienced music reviewer to look into Homeless Heart and see how much the article should stand alone by itself. It was heavily publicised and accepted through out Canadian airways and there is an external link saying itslef a number 2 hit. I propose no redirection of the article to Carlsson page or any of the other two songwriters. I ask for no speedy deletion or reverting but someone to review and improve the article if possible. thanks.Jeneral28 (talk) 09:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

So Close (McCurdy

Someone please help expand the article So Close (Jennette McCurdy) before re-adding the notability tag.Jeneral28 (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Tommy the Cat

Hi all. I've attempted to clean up and fix the article for Primus' "Tommy the Cat" -- Could someone take a look-see and offer some input. Thanks! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_the_Cat BubbaStrangelove (talk) 15:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

So Far Away (Carole King)

Someone please help improve it and DO NOT tag for deletionJeneral28 (talk) 17:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Songfacts.com

I contest this site is not factual but based on inputs of members. They have made mistakes such as Toto's song Rosanna.Jeneral28 (talk) 17:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)