Talk:Olive oil

Information sources

I removed these from the article's link section. Information from sources should be incorporated into and cited in the article. Editors wishing to use these sources can access them from here; they should not be added back to the article as just links. Ham Pastrami (talk) 10:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

• Olive oil "acts like painkiller."
• National Public Radio story about the faking of extra-virgin olive oil (August 7, 2007)
• Phenols - Olive oil's heart effect located, BBC News 2005 Nov 27
• New Yorker article on adulteration of Italian olive oil

• A history of olive oil in Spain
• A factual report by Californian producers covering olive oil production in Spain
• [1]
• [2]
• [3]

Remaining extlinks

I am removing these links since there has been no comment. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:37, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Museum links

I'm not sure why these are here. Do these websites offer information about olive oil that cannot be found in other sources? If so, put the information in the article and cite them. If not, they shouldn't be linked to. If the museums themselves are of interest, they should be discussed in the article in some way, not simply promoted with links. Ham Pastrami (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

unctad.org

I can't even tell what this site is for. Ham Pastrami (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Main producing countries

Can the market section at the beginning be moved or combined with the global consumption / global market section. Perhaps it could be clarified with current figures (e.g. http://www.internationaloliveoil.org/web/aa-ingles/corp/AreasActivitie/economics/economics-oliveOilFigures.html ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.122.229 (talk) 01:14, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The section "Global market: The main producing countries are:" lists countries whose production stats are given as nil. Can this be clarified, or corrected. 217.44.210.7 (talk) 13:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Those countries do have significant consumption, and I have changed the text above the table to reflect that. Grafen (talk) 21:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Though Greece is not the first (it's third in the rank) and not even the best quality oil producer, this section is mainly dedicated to Greece, with o references. This seems an unjustified advertisement for Greek oil. You should reference or correct this section, or delete it. (Eschatos1 (talk) 18:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC))

Needs more info

This is a good article but it could use more information on the cooking characteristics of olive oil, i.e. can you use it for frying? etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.166.60 (talk) 14:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Bad reference link

Resolved

I found a dead link at the reference for this line in the Human health section: "Several scientific studies doubt some of the previously stated positive effects and state several negative effects of olive oil such as impairment of the dilation of the arteries.[24]" 5Q5 (talk) 23:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed.TJRC (talk) 01:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Omega 3/6 ratio

At one point in the article it claims that one benefit is to displace the omega 6/omega 3 ratio to a more healthy ratio. Olive oil contains quite a lot of omega 6, but little omega 3. Almost all sources recommend a 2:1 or at best 1:1 ratio of omega 6 to 3 as the healthiest, so I think a source should be found that would support the belief that more omega 6 over omega 3 would be healthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PEiP (talk • contribs) 20:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Fat Composition

This table is very misleading. Olive oil contains only very low proportions of the compounds listed, certainly not in the 20-60% range as stated. Whoever included this table has no conception of the chemical composition of olive oil, and the table should be removed or revised immediately. The point is that the major constituents are triglyceride esters (as correctly noted further down the page). These compounds can be regarded as reaction products between glyceryl and fatty acids (fats). Presumably the 'Fat Composition' refers to the the proportion of combined fats rather than to free fats: this should be made clear in the main article. Andrew Smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.50.77 (talk) 09:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Regulation

I've noticed that the regulation section is rather big and unwieldy, and considering olive oil is quite a broad topic with thousands of years of history, I think this ought to be split off into its own article, and be retained in summary style in this article. Any thoughts? —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 01:16, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree and am going to take the initiate to create the new article. Bundas (talk) 19:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Negative Health Effects of Olive Oil?

I would like to point out that the reference given for some studies for adverse health effects of olive oil, is actually more or less a biased article written by the Pritikin Center's chief doctor, a center which commercially promotes the so-called 'Pritikin diet'. This commercial diet is known for the antipathy to fats and oils of any kind. Even though i do agree that research into any negative health effects of olive oil should ultimately be included, i hardly think that that should be drawn from a commercially-driven article, which cites a handful medical studies, especially in the light of many tens of studies that highlight the positive health effects of olive oil. The ref is here: Olive_oil#cite_note-oliveoiltruth-26 I would please like your input on this. KLA (talk) 04:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

While I don't personally have an opinion on this matter, I think you might be able to find people better suited to help at the Fringe Theories Noticeboard. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

it's actually not fully biased, here is a good study http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120780752/abstract Markthemac (talk) 21:24, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Glut of unreferenced info

While I'd like to remove the recent info added by contributions, there seems to be good info in there. However I've restrained myself to just pulling the linkspam for the Greek website added to the end of each contribution. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 19:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, though it should probably checked for copyright violations. --Ronz (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't find anything obvious, but I'm starting to see a thinly-veiled POV slant towards Mediterranean olive oil over others. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 20:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the large sections as copyright violations. The information was a cut-and-paste from the linked sites. --Ronz (talk) 20:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Change this page to semi-protected

Hi I would like to change this page to be semi-protected. i would like to change it to semi-protected because there is great information and I don't want great information to be vandalised

Thank you --Cream horn 01:30, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

"cold pressed" is a dubious (non scientific) definition

I have been a producer of highest quality extra vergin olive oil in Tuscany for over 20 years and have a very good knowledge of the process. I would propose a more accurate wording in the section of label wording, especially of the term "First cold press". Commercial labels tend to confuse the consumer with nice sounding words that are often meaningless or even making believe things that are not factual. "Cold" is a subjective and not unique term, it may range from "cold water" that may be anywhere above zero degrees centigrade up to well more than 20°C, to "cold weather" which has a different meaning in Alaska and in Central America. So what is "cold pressed"? The natural (environmental) processing temperature of olives in Sicily or Maroc may be higher than the processing temperature in November in Tuscany with added heat. So while processing temperature may influence the quality if it is too high (generally should be below 35°C), it may be lower with added heat in one region than without added heat in another. "First press" is non-sensical as with today's efficient machines producing high pressure there is no "second press". Toscanaman (talk) 16:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC) toscanaman

Thank you - wikipedia needs the input of people like you who have first-hand and inside knowledge. Very helpful in cutting through the hype. Mille Grazie! Bundas (talk) 19:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I think there is a E.U. regulation defining the "cold press". I' ll try to find and post it. 91.140.99.88 (talk) 18:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Olive Oil Fraud - Disgusting adulterant: what is it?

I just ran into two bottles of "olive oil" in a row from two different Italian sources (Capatriti, Wal-Mart store brand) with the same disgusting property: about half an hour after eating, while the food itself was still in the stomach, the larger part of the "olive oil" had made its way all the way to the end of the gastrointestinal tract and was ready to ooze out unaltered in a most repellent fashion. While I haven't actually done any tests for adulteration, I don't believe that could happen if it was cut with any normal vegetable oil - I think we're talking about something like mineral oil that doesn't even have a carboxy group on the end of it to catch on a bile salt. I've since switched back to an old brand that is bottled in the U.S. from Spanish oil and luckily never saw the flag of Italy darken the horizon, and that seems to have fixed the problem for now (and as a bonus, it even has a nice olive smell and taste...), but what is this crap? Wnt (talk) 06:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

N.B. For what it's worth the refrigeration test mentioned in the article actually did distinguish between these: after three days, the Capatriti formed only a haze at the bottom, the Wal-Mart nearly congealed but had some loose liquid at top, but the Pompeiian was so solid it took half a minute under the hot water to get any liquid at all. Wnt (talk) 12:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Pretty weird. Sounds like the kind of GI symptoms that you get from consuming foods cooked in olestra. Not sure what your adulterant might be though. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 07:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting discussion, but doesn't belong here. See WP:Talk: "Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject...." --macrakis (talk) 07:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Well I'd add some information about it to the article, once I know what to look up... Wnt (talk) 09:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Note: I just added to Olive oil regulation and adulteration a description of adulteration with actual mineral oil from 1887, and detailed the test to determine this at the time, but that was strictly a wild guess on my part. I'd rather enter detailed information about something that I know is relevant to modern times. Wnt (talk) 09:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not interesting and it's not pertinent. I think the word to describe the conversation is "stupid." 24.211.215.187 (talk) 19:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

From reading a book dedicated to olive oils, it seems most of the olive oil in the USA is a blend of olive oils and something else. The wikipedia article at Olive_oil_regulation_and_adulteration describes olive oil fraud situations as does the book "Extra Virginity- The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil" by Tom Mueller. A better description of the home refrigeration test is needed along with temperatures at which various oils and olive oil solidifies. That way, armed with a thermometer, various brands of oils can be tested by consumers and opinions expressed on consumer forums. Without temperatures, one can only observe as the oil is cooled various percentages that solidify out of solution. I had a 3 liter bottle of "Members Mark" olive oil from Sam's Club (a USA warehouse shopping club); Members Mark is the store brand oil from Sam's Club (Wal-Mart). It took about 2 weeks to test the oil. I then moved it to a standalone small spare refrigerator in the garage. More or less, about every half day, I would adjust turn the temperature down a small amount as well as look at the clear plastic bottle. My goal was to cause different oils to solidify out of solution; if it was 100% olive oil, then I expected all of the oil should congeeal at the same time. About ten percent of the oil solidified out of solution and as the temperature continued to go down and this separated quantity was stable as the temperature declined. About 40% solified out of solution at another lower temperature. By this time, it was pretty hard to visually estimate the percentage so I stopped the testing. So, my guess is that Sam's Club sells "olive oil" that is apparently a blend of olive oil mixed with non-olive oils of significantly differing solidification temperatures. My opinion then is that the house branded Sam's Club olive oil is not 100% olive oil. It has a nice green color, but can be done with colourants.AnimeJanai (talk) 07:13, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Olive oil is less reactive?

I don't know what this part means? Should it say oxidized? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.173.193 (talk) 17:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

US import numbers don't add up

This doesn't add up:

The US imported 28,950,000 US gallons (109,600 m3) of olive oil in 1994, a 215% increase from 1984. The US is Italy's biggest customer, importing 22% of total Italian production of 131,600,000 US gallons (498,200 m3) in 1994.

Since 22% of 498,200 is 109,600, this implies that all US imports come from Italy and nowhere else. And that seems unlikely. Maybe the first sentence should be "...of olive oil from Italy in 1994." Given that these numbers are unsourced I'd like to remove these two sentences. Rees11 (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Found your source; the problem is that the wording changed subtly after the source went offline. See here; the number given is the amount of olive oil that was exported from Italy to the US, thus it neatly equals 22% of the total Italian production of that year. Here's where it was introduced, and here's where it got changed. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 19:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I found a more recent source and put in new numbers. I didn't try to recreate the percent increase information as that doesn't seem all that interesting and apparently numbers aren't available for recent years. Rees11 (talk) 21:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Talmud

I checked the Encyclopedia of medicine in the Bible and the Talmud and couldn't find anything about bad breath and olive oil. The Talmud does recommend gargling with olive oil to relieve pain in the throat (Berachot 36a), and olive oil, wine and spices for restoring memory. Rees11 (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Serving Suggestions and link to out to taste extra virgin olive oil

Good evening, I wrote the serving suggesions section, but it was rejected. I apologise if I made some mistake, I would know why this section is incorrect, because it contained many chef suggestions. I would also know why the link is not correct: it is not a commercial page and the video linked could not be directely added to wikipedia page, I thought it was the only way to show it. Thank you in advance for your attention Yours sincerely

I put links to the relevant Wikipedia Policies in the log message. The particular sections that I think apply are:

• WP:ELNO "Links normally to be avoided... Links to web pages that primarily exist to sell products or services"
• WP:NOTHOWTO "...a Wikipedia article should not read like a how-to style manual of instructions..."

I also don't consider the source you cited to be a reliable secondary source per WP:SOURCES. Rees11 (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, the "serving suggestions" isn't a how-to but an explaination about many uses of extra virgin olive oil. The page linked not exists pimarily to sell products or services (only 5% of the whole webpage), but to promote the italian food culture in foreign contries. Anyway, I'm sorry if the contents are incorrectSismassyk (talk) 19:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

'Winterisation'

I have not found anything in the main item on the topic of 'winterisation' as part of the processing of olive oil. I became aware of this process, applied to 'extra virgin' oil after buying some olive oil from the local supermarket which did not have the characteristics I am used to in olive oil.

I habitually keep oil in the fridge at a temp of about 5 to 8 C and at this temp olive oil characteristically becomes cloudy and precipitates a layer of pasty material which settles to the bottom of the bottle. The deposit melts and clears again when the oil is warmed to room temp. This behaviour is quoted as a distinctive property of olive oil in 'Textbook of Pharmacognosy' TE Wallis, Churchill Ltd, London, 1962. It is caused by the presence, as a natural constituent, of high-melting point esters among the normal mixture of compounds in the oil.

But my latest bottle remains perfectly clear (with the usual yellow-green colouration), and this lead me initially to suspect that this is not olive oil at all and is being sold fraudulently.

But after doing some internet research, I came across a 'Freezing Olive Oil' page, and I now think that it is likely that the oil has been 'winterised' - i.e. chilled, and the liquid part poured off for sale, the semi-solid deposit being discarded. This is supposed to result in a more aesthetically appealing product.

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olive_chemistry_freezing.htm

I am not certain about the status of oil which has been treated in this way. It seems to me that if an oil is marketed that does not contain all of the usual constituents of olive oil in the normal range of proportions it cannot properly be called 'olive oil' at all, let alone 'extra virgin'. Some comment on this might be appropriate in the main article.

Andrew Smith

Thank you for sharing this bit of information with us. I personally don't have a need for cooking oils at home. One day, I bought a new pan, and decided to "season" it according to the instructions. As I don't need a huge bottle of oil, I bought the smallest bottle on the shelf of my local store, which is labelled as
"GEM Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Cold Pressed" (8.5 fl oz, UPC ₀41618 08020₆).

Like yourself, I keep my bottle in the refrigerator, and just like one of your bottles, mine also displayed a coagulated property, eventually becoming so solidified that I became concerned if it would be extractable, or if it was going bad. Right now, I have a glass and funnel in my refrigerator into which I’m running the contents through a coffee filter. So far, the oil collected in the glass is liquid, and the thick part appears to remain in the filter. When I wash the oil bottle, I’m going to repeat the filtration before returning the oil to the bottle. To me, this is somewhat suggestive of the curds and whey of milk. If anyone can provide further insight as to what’s being observed, your input would be of value to the article.

Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 07:32, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Composition

'Olive oil is composed mainly of the mixed triglyceride esters of oleic acid and palmitic acid and of other fatty acids..'

This sentence is incompatible with the 'Fat Composition' table which indicates high proportions of fatty acids. Please clarify whether the major constituents of olive oil are fatty acids or triglyceride esters.

Andrew Smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.50.77 (talk) 10:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You have encountered some slightly sloppy (from the chemistry standpoint) terminology usually used by nutritionists: because all fats are glyceryl triacylates (medical types like to call them triglycerides, as if there were three glycerin moities in the molecule, instead of only one with three fatty acid moities) which are readily saponified by the human body, the composition is usually expressed in terms of the fatty acids which result from saponification of the fat. — Jay L09 (talk) 19:43, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Confusion over acronym IOOC

The term IOOC is used throughout this article, and is explained as meaning the International Olive Oil Council. However, this organisation actually refers to itself as the IOC (International Olive Council). Both terms are confusing however, since an explanation of the acronym is only given once in the article. Readers dipping in to the article, as I did, would be likely to look up these terms elsewhere on Wikipedia and find that the IOOC was the 'Iranian Offshore Oil Company', as I did, or that the IOC was the 'International Olympic Committee'. It would be useful to have at least a stub article on Wikipedia for the International Olive Council, to which references in this article could link. This would make it easy to understand the acronym, even if a reader didn't read the whole article.

Jowiltshire (talk) 11:16, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

negative health effect added from the sunflower oil page

olive oil actually contains more omega 6 than sunflower oil, but only sunflower oil had that section it's (it's a direct copy from here): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_oil#Negative_health_effects Markthemac (talk) 19:28, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Tree density

I was originally going to fold in properly the info on tree density, but realized it would be more appropriate in Olive, so I mentioned it on Talk:Olive#Tree_density. --Ronz (talk) 17:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

When should you NOT use Olive oil for frying ?

I keep seeing mixed reviews about the subject. Can someone point to a WP:RS so we could add it to the article ? Talgalili (talk) 09:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

You should NOT use olive oil when a salesman working for another edible oil industry is watching you. — Jay L09 (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Oils should not be used above their "smoke points". There are canola and safflower oils, for example, that can go 100 degrees higher, at least according to this page, and should be used instead of olive oil for frying. http://www.lakewinds.com/store/Cooking-Oil-Temperatures-and-Proper-Usage-W1147C10528.aspx It's interesting that the temperature cited in the Wiki article is 420°F, however the reference reads 325°F 98.210.208.107 (talk) 01:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

What does "extra virgin" actually mean?

The words are used, but not defined. (Or if it is, I missed it.) --Billpg (talk) 19:10, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Never been kissed ?Eregli bob (talk) 13:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Virgin Olive Oils: The oil obtained from the fruit of the olive exclusively with mechanical processes and other physical processes, in conditions that do not cause alternations in the oil, and which have not undergone any treatment apart from washing, decantation, centrifugation and filtration, excluding oils obtained with solvents or with chemical or biochemical reagents or with processes of reesterification or any mixture with oils of other nature. —European Union Law 1513/2001

There's also EU Directive 796, passed in 2002, which sets out quality requirements for each grade of oil. AnimeJanai (talk) 08:15, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Regarding 'Retail grades in IOOC member nations'

I've found much of the wording in this section is copied verbatim from Olive Oil Source' product grade definitions page. My Wikipedia editing knowledge is rusty and I've forgotten where to draw the line between citation and plagiarism, so I'm tossing the info on here for more experienced folks to deal with. Teceangl (talk) 11:11, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Previous USDA Ratings

While cleaning up the current USDA grading reference, I noticed that the reference to the old ratings is the same. Did I overlook something, or did someone confuse the two some time ago? --Ronz (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

The USDA placed the new grading reference in the location of the old one, so it isn't the fault of any editor.

I cannot find documentation on the older USDA ratings to rectify this. --Ronz (talk) 17:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Maintenance templates for sections

Too many banners in the article per WP:Overtagging. Anyone else who feels the same should feel free to remove them or restore my edit. Lambanog (talk) 17:25, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

They've been there since July 2010, so I don't think there's much opposition to them. They definitely all apply, and are helpful in identifying specific problems in this lengthy article. --Ronz (talk) 17:43, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Production

I removed the material from the lede on varieties and production to a new section for expansion. --Ronz (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Health and teaspoons

The health label appears to say vaguely "you do not increase fat consumption by doing it". Does it mean it would be healthier to have ZERO consumption of fat? (including olive's) --194.219.131.162 (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

no definition for "virgin olive oil"

There's no non-circular definition of the term "virgin olive oil" in this article; what the heck is it? Make sure to define it before using the term elsewhere in the article. philiptdotcom (talk) 06:38, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Are there any bad health consequences?

This article has no information at all on if there are any bad effects on health from regularly consuming moderate and large amounts of olive oil. If there are any, can they be added to the article? For example, would it increase the risk of heart disease or increase the amount of fatty tissue surrounding the heart? Wsmss (talk) 18:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Properties - Comparison

It will be helpful if the properties are arranged as a comparison table for the different types of Olive oils, like below.

Comparative properties of common cooking fats (per 100g)

	Total Fat	Saturated Fat	Monounsaturated Fat	Polyunsaturated Fat	Smoke Point
Extra-virgin olive oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
Virgin olive oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
Pure olive oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
Olive oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
Olive pomace oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
Refined olive oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
U.S. Extra Virgin Olive Oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
U.S. Virgin Olive Oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
U.S. Olive Oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx
U.S. Refined Olive Oil	100g	xxx	xxx	xxx	xxx

Anish Viswa 04:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Whilst we are comparing oilve oil to other oils can we also include a) coconut oil and b)safflower oil? [User:phronima.au]

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Criminal trade with illegal olive oil

There is a big trade with illegal olive oil, could be mentioned. --Mats33 (talk) 23:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Some of the various olive oil fraud trade is described in the book "Extra Virginity- The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil" by Tom Mueller. The book has a lot of info about fradulent olive oil and of past accusations and convictions of olive oil companies.AnimeJanai (talk) 08:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Potential refs

Moved from Further reading:

• Cicerale, S. et al. “Biological Activities of Phenolic Compounds Present in Virgin Olive Oil”, International Journal of Molecular Sciences (2010),11(2):458-79.
• Fitó, M. et al. “Bioavailability and antioxidant effects of olive oil phenolic compounds in humans: a review”, Annali dell'Istituto Superiore di Sanità (2007),43(4):375-381.

--Ronz (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Possible copyvio

New addition, which frankly, looked almost too good to be true for an addition from a new editor, looks like it came from here and was just ref formatted for wikipedia. I have removed it. Yobol (talk) 15:52, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

About "Unique extra virgin olive oils" POV

Why only Greek oils? The text does not explain any reason for only listing such oils - and any such reason would require a proper reference. What's the point in listing such oils at all on the Wikipedia page? In all fairness, I'm Italian, but I don't think my point is less valid.--Blaisorblade (talk) 13:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, it does not represent a worldwide view on the topic, and if it did, it would be incredibly long listing that bordered on spam. The lack of reference is just a cherry on top. Removed. Pro crast in a tor (talk) 21:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Overblown

... an endless source of fascination and wonder and the fountain of great wealth and power.

— This prose must have been squeezed from purple olives. Sca (talk) 12:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced paragraph

The first paragraph of Eastern Mediterranean history has been unsourced for over a year. Are there any objections to its removal? Mind my edits (talk) 21:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)