Talk:Doneness

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Page move

I was about to write an article titled Temperature (meat), searched under the obvious terms, and found that for some reason, only "medium rare" had an article. Rather than re-invent the wheel, i propose to move this page to Temperature (meat), and add redirects for Doneness as well as each of the specific degrees mentioned on the page (one for "Medium rare" will be automatically created). After the page move I'll do the necessary cleanup to make it general to all the degrees of doneness. MCB 01:57, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed assertion about room temperature

It's not the case that raw meat "has only been exposed to room temperature". Meat remains raw up to the temperature where the proteins begin to denature. The ranges shown for the degrees of doneness are for the center of a cut of meat measured by a meat thermometer; they're not the cooking temperatures. --MCB 04:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Until the livestock becomes meat, the temperature is quite often above room temperature in some parts of the world, and well below that of room temperature in others. If you have a room which is 135 degrees, by all means the mean would be evenly medium-rare, but without any of the browning that contributes so much to savory qualities of meat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.137.225.247 (talk) 00:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How is rare safe?

The article says, The USDA recommends a temperature of at least 145°F (63°C) to prevent foodborne illness. But medium is the first level which reaches 145. How then, is it that so many people eat rare steak without incident? I once even saw someone order a hamburger rare, which just about made me fall over. Are they just taking a risk each time they eat it? --Birdhombre 18:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the short answer is that the government standard, like many such, is overconservative. Of course there's a risk -- there are risks in everything, including getting out of bed or crossing the street. But in this case it's a pretty small risk. The government also warns against eating raw fish (e.g., sushi and sashimi) and shellfish (e.g., oysters), but many millions of people do it every year. It's not that the government is wrong, per se, but it's a matter of understanding the nature and probability of the risk. Personally, I order my steaks and burgers medium rare. --MCB 21:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The government standard, as MCB states is conservative. Plus, most red meat doesn't have much bacteria internally, they primarily live on the surface, so just getting the outside of the meat hot is enough. I really wouldn't recommend rare hamburgers, though, because those bacteria from the surface will have been spread throughout the burger during preparation, making this somewhat more risky than eating a rare steak. JulesH 17:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Are they just taking a risk each time they eat it?" Dude, you're taking a risk each time you drive to work. Yes, people who are eating very rare meat are taking a risk, but here's the thing: sanitation and food safety standards in this country are so stringent that the risk is minescule. I'm more likely to get run over by a bus than to get food poisoning from an "undercooked" piece of beef. I could eat a steak raw right out of the butcher's case and not get sick. Anyway, life involves risk. Nobody's saying you have to eat rare or raw meat, but understand that it's a lot safer than the over-zealous government guidelines would have you believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 18:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't take my chances with a piece of RAW meat. Rare, sure. Raw puts you at the mercy of every food-borne illness on the list. 64.148.241.133 (talk) 06:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yet you probably eat raw fruits and vegetables, no? The 2006 North American E. coli outbreak was due to contaminated spinach and iceberg lettuce. Think about it... --MCB (talk) 07:17, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8675.php --Lycan1841 (talk) 19:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infomation about other countries reccomendations about cooking

something I noticed in my trip to the USA in 2002, was that even though when I had a steak a a resteraunt and asked for it to be rare, it was much more cooked than a steak of simmilar size that was requested to be cooked rare in Australia. This could potentialy mean that the reccomendation to not have rare meat may only apply to the USA. potentialy even moreso if you take into account the fact that people in places that still serve meat rare would possibly build up resistance to the small amounts of the less harmful bacteria that is found in rare meat because they would be exposed to it more.

It could also just mean that Australia has regulations for beef cattle that mean we dont need to worry as much about having our meat done rare. But whatever the reason is, it might be an idea to make some kind of referanced note if any verifiable infomation can be found. --124.168.197.253 22:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chances are you went to a restaurant that takes the USDA guidelines far too seriously. They might have been sued for a food poisoning case and instructed the cooks to ignore customer requests and overcook everything. It's a pity, and it's one reason I don't order steak when I go out to eat. I'm the only person I trust to cook my steaks. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.136.139 (talk) 18:18, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

I heard on a trivia game on the radio that "People with more of this in their lives tend to order their meat more rare," with the answer being money. If this is true, it would be an interesting factoid to add to the article, unfortunately, however, "I heard it on the radio" doesn't quite cut it for a citation. Has anyone heard of this, or have an idea where to verify such a thing? Dansiman (talk|Contribs) 16:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know where you heard such a thing but I love my steaks and hamburgers rare. I'll even go so far as to say I love steak tar-tar even though I've never had it before. I mean, seriously. Raw cubes of prime grade steak covered in hollandaise sauce. No choice but to love it.Alex (talk) 09:16, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page name

As the article is currently written, it really is entirely about beef. It should either have a similar level of content added about other types of meat, or be renamed to Temperature (beef). Dansiman (talk|Contribs) 16:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I could, this weekend, start working on adding more information about chicken, pork and lamb/sheep. I would appreciate some help from others, though. I imagine we'll need more then the USDA reference pages for citations, for one.Alex (talk) 07:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A Little History?

It would be interesting to know when the USDA decreed that Americans shouldn't eat meat cooked medium rare or less (I'm sorry, but calling something that's medium "medium rare" doesn't make it so). It seems to me that only large chain restaurants follow these guidelines stringently; when I go to my local tavern they cook it how I darn well want it...mostly. Anyone else notice this trend? XINOPH | TALK 01:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it was in regards to ground meat. Any unground beef can safely be eaten at rare, and steak tartar is actually prepared with raw beef and eaten without being cooked. You can also eat lamb rare (med rare recommended for ideal tenderness and flavor) and pork has been declared safe for at least medium. Alex (talk) 00:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updated temperature

What is the source for this information? There is no citation...is this a common deviation from traditional?Sottolacqua (talk) 18:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't even make sense. 145F in beef will not produce "a warm red center, otherwise pink". -- Cyrius|✎ 09:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm the temperatures given for the different levels of doneness, having been ServeSafe certified by one of my former employers (a buffet restaurant chain) and confirmed by two local sit-down casual dining places that I worked as a chef at. To answer another question further up the page, rare doesn't cause food borne illness in steaks and other uncut, unground pieces of meat because bacteria cannot travel to the center of the cut, wherein ground meat is more dangerous due to the fact that the outer layer of the meat, the portion subject to exposure to bacteria, is mixed in with all the other parts of the meat. Unfortunately I cannot offhand produce any citations other then my own experience as a professional cook (3+ years) and as an amateur cook (15+ years). Alex (talk) 00:30, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The U.S. government has an information fact sheet on beef, including temperature as it relates to doneness, can be found here http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Beef_from_Farm_to_Table/index.asp Alex (talk) 00:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 11:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Table overhaul

To avoid previous problems with original research and informal sources, I turned to a well-known reference book (The Field Guide to Meat) for temperature ranges and summarized its description of the gradations (to avoid copyvio) and adjusted the information in the table accordingly. I also removed the USDA column since the ranges there were not found in any of the USDA sources mentioned; instead, USDA uses a minimum safe temperature for each meat, which is mentioned in its own paragraph. --MCB (talk) 08:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Time parameter

Isn't it that the recommended temperatures not only need to be reached but be sustained over a certain time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.197.221.226 (talk) 20:00, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. It's recommended they "rest" for three minutes, but that's like the nurse telling you to stick around ten minutes after a flu shot: precaution, but not necessary. Sailorknightwing (talk) 19:50, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

entrecote medium???

That's hardly medium...That's way closer to rare...Not even medium rare.. 68.38.197.76 (talk) 00:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]