Talk:Hermann Göring

Edda Göring

In "Hitler's Children: Sons and Daughters of Leaders of the Third Reich Talk About Their Fathers and Themselves" by Gerald Posner, Edda Göring is quoted to have said she was named after the old Icelandic Poetic Edda, a collection of poems, and that Göring disliked Mussolini and would never have named her after his daughter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mubli (talk • contribs) 22:27, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

What ever became of her anyway? There doesn't seem to be much interest here 8in the survivors of the families of Nazi leaders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.141.225 (talk) 20:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Role in the Reichstag

This article contains nothing about Goering's position as Speaker of the Reichstag -- and HHitler's apparent fear of his control of the Party.

Nor is there anything about his personal cruelty to the left members of the Reichstag after they had been thrown into the camps.

-dlj. User talk:DavidLJ [1]

Reichstag fire

Re: Göring's responsibility for the Reichstag fire, this section of the article did a fairly good job with the history of the debate, but in his The Third Reich Trilogy, Richard J. Evans is more firm that there is no evidence indicating that Göring was responsible and that it is not implausible that Lubbe could have succeeded alone. I don't have the book in front of me but I will check his references later and see what sources he relies on for his account. Anthony Mohen (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

quote section

Minor point before a GA review - you should probably find some things noting the "Nationalism" quote being a big deal, otherwise the entire section seems weak enough to be yanked as trivia. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 06:14, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can find. -- Dianna (talk) 14:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hermann Göring/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 01:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

starting a review of this article, bear with me, first timer. Peacemaker67 (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

1. Well written. Yes, I made a couple of small grammatical changes, but otherwise excellent prose and compliance with the MOS. I suggest the citations are spread to 3 columns instead of 2.
2. Factually accurate and verifiable. I consider there are three important aspects of Goring's life that need to be better referenced or placed in context to meet this criteria:
a. I recommend the discussion of the controversy regarding his award of the Blue Max be clarified. ie either state what the number of air victories required was in May 1918 (if known), or state that it increased throughout the war, giving some context to the resentment of his squadron. I understand that the score was 30 when the war ended, but 8 when Immelmann got his.
b. The ref for his award of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross needs a page number.
c. The ref for the Lt that smuggled the cyanide to Goring needs a page number.
3. Broad in coverage. Yes.
4. Neutral. Yes.
5. Stable. Yes.
6. Illustrated. Yes.

I'm placing it on hold for 7 days so the above points can be addressed. Otherwise, it is looking good. Cheers. Peacemaker67 (talk) 08:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

The column width for the citations has been changed to 20 em, which will display as 3 columns on most monitors. The Blue Max: Lothar von Richthofen did not get his until his 24th victory, which he achieved in May 1917. I will snip out a bit of the text and will try to confirm at a later date whether there was a fixed limit on the number of kills required. -- Dianna (talk) 14:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

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By 1918, the number of victories needed to qualify for a Blue Max was a minimum of 20 confirmed.

To be exact, the first Blue Maxes were awarded for eight confirmed victories. The requirement was raised to 16, then 20 by 1918. See http://www.pourlemerite.org/ or any number of texts.

Georgejdorner (talk) 22:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

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I have located the requested page numbers. Note that page numbers are not a requirement for GA. Thank you so much for taking the time to do the review. -- Dianna (talk) 14:47, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Diannaa, MisterBee1966 (talk) would probably know the answer to the Blue Max query. Kierzek (talk) 18:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Passed. Great job Dianna. Peacemaker67 (talk) 01:33, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

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According to Hermann Dahlmann, Göring received the Blue Max with 18 victories when the standard was 20. He purportedly got his old friend Bruno Loerzer to lobby for the unwarranted early award. It gave Göring's jasta pilots another reason to distrust and dislike him. All this is contained in the references presently in the article.

Georgejdorner (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

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Battle of Britain section

I believe it is essential the Battle of Britain section should mention Goring's advice to Hitler to ignore the UK altogether, and instead overrun Spain and North Africa. There was never any chance at all of Operation Sea Lion being a success, since the German navy had been badly damaged in Norway and the Luftwaffe was not in a position to defeat the RAF. If Hitler had followed Goring's advice Germany could have won the war. (92.10.136.62 (talk) 17:53, 11 August 2012 (UTC))

I have reverted your addition again. The website you used is a tourist website for Gibraltar. It doesn't say where they got their information, and it doesn't list an author. This is not a good enough source to use to add material to a Good Article. And it's not fair to put the onus on me to find a source! I don't have access to the Goring biography here that I used to bring the article to GA; I can do that, but I would have to bring it in on intra-library loan, and it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get it. Looking through my other main sources (Evans, Shirer) this material is not mentioned. It's up to you to provide a good source, not me. By the way, the date of 17 September 1940 cannot possibly be correct for the postponement of Operation Sealion, as the Blitz was ongoing until May 1941. -- Dianna (talk) 19:39, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Shirer (1960) says "diversions in Africa should be studied", but the idea came from Hitler, not Goring, as noted by Raeder and Halder after a meeting with Hitler in summer 1940. Shirer, pages 764–765. -- Dianna (talk) 19:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The Blitz was used by Hitler in an attempt to break the will of the British people to continue the war. It is likely that he never intended to invade as it would have been impossible. (92.7.19.93 (talk) 13:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

That's not true. Extensive planning was undertaken for an invasion, including the selection of landing points, commanders, troops, and targets for the first day and the first week. Troops were moved into positions along the coast and engaged in training for amphibious warfare. The invasion never took place, as the air superiority which was considered to be a prerequisite was never obtained. Evans 2008, page 136-145; Melvin 2010 page 186-193. -- Dianna (talk) 14:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Air superiority would not have been enough, as Grand Admiral Donitz admitted. The Germans had lost too many ships in Norway to get the men across, and the much larger Royal Navy would have destroyed the German fleet before it reached Dover. If anything the troop build-up was designed to keep pressure on the British government. (92.7.19.93 (talk) 15:34, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

Aside from the terrible source used, the IP is right. S-L was indeed postponed on 17 September 1940 and its chances of success, with air superiority or not, were slim. It is debatable whether ignoring Britain and going for North Africa and the Middle East/Med. could have won the war. That would assume the British were the main enemy of the Reich. I would say it was ultimately the Soviets, followed by the Americans. A success against the British Empire would not have diminished the enormous (and arguably greater) threat of these two nations. Dapi89 (talk) 21:04, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

The USA were still neutral at the time. If the UK had been invaded, the effect would have massively prolonged the war (having no base of operations to launch Overlord). Also, you are discounting the technological developments that would have been stifled - Tube Alloys (started by UK & Canada, later renamed Manhattan Project) the ongoing development of RADAR, jet engines and the cavity magnetron, to name but a few examples. Also, with the emptying of the UK coffers, the USA economy would not have been kick-started into a war economy (the transfer of wealth is what helped drag the USA out of the economic doldrums of the 1930's). 135.196.157.83 (talk) 08:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC) FW

"The Beast" Hermann's Car

I recently found these images in my grandma's garage. If someone wishes to use them in an article on its own or put them in here somehow, I fully encourage it. I do not have the time right now to contribute beyond scanning the images in.

Color photo

Greyscale informational — Preceding unsigned comment added by Secruss (talk • contribs) 20:01, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Luftwaffe

It is rather typical of biographers to get technical details wrong so it is best to add specialist sources or else myths and disinformation start to circulate. The Polish Air Force was not outnumbered 15:1. That statistic is nonsense. The figures for the relative strength of the Luftwaffe and PLW were 2,182 to 1,900. Secondly the Germans achieved air superiority in less than seven days - not through the direct destruction of the PLW by the Luftwaffe, but by the later destroying communications, facilitating the advance of the army, which overran airfields and advanced warning sites. That did for the PLW. I've added a more authoritative source. Dapi89 (talk) 17:02, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

lived as a child with his Jewish godfather?

The Albert Göring page (his brother) asserts that Hermann as a child lived with and was raised at least in part by his Jewish godfather (wiki-ized text copied from that page to preserve reference):

The Göring family lived with their children’s aristocratic godfather of Jewish heritage, Ritter Hermann von Epenstein, in his Veldenstein and Mauterndorf castles. Von Epenstein was a prominent physician and acted as a surrogate father to the children as Heinrich Göring was often absent from the family home. Göring was one of five children, his brothers were Hermann Göring and Karl Ernst Göring; his sisters were Olga Therese Sophia and Paula Elisabeth Rosa Göring, the last of whom were children of his father's first marriage.

either belongs in this article or not in the other one. 68.174.97.122 (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The material in Albert's article does not have proper sourcing, and this one does. I am the person who brought the Hermann Goering article to GA, so I personally checked the sourcing for each statement in this article. As I recall, the family never lived with von Epenstein, though he did provide the family with housing at one of his many properties. -- Dianna (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Once again, hassles about WWI victory scores

Hello, all,

If Goering's aerial victory score is to be retroactively revised in an attempt to rewrite history, there should at least be an explanation of who is revising, and just what standards were used in the revision. I have linked the World War I aerial victory standards to the article. Can't there be at least a footnote explaining how the modified score was calculated? And a reference to a victory by victory list, as in the itemized list in Above the Lines?

Georgejdorner (talk) 14:38, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

New addition removed

I have removed some new content that was added without sources. I think we are past the point on this wiki where unsourced material can be added to the articles, especially ones that have already achieved GA status. As well, the material needs to be re-worded to it is less about Speer and focused more on Goring. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:08, 9 September 2013 (UTC)