Talk:Afro-Arabs

Afro-Arab

What is the origin of this term? Are there significant numbers of individuals and/or communities who self-identify this way? Are there people who don't self-identify this way but are typically so labelled by the larger society they live in? These questions need to be answered here or this article is junk. Right now the article is vague and is making some big claims (like questions of denied Afro Arab identity are responsible for the Sudan genocide...

I am afraid, nobody self identifies with this term, its just an American/British term to categorize and racially split Arabian people.Maybe caused by Afrocentrists? The word is definatly not in use anywhere in the Arab world.African Union? Well......I doubt it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.176.138.3 (talk) 12:50, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

POV, this article is biassed

Yo man. YOM, same guy from arab slave trade, bringing your POV here, drop the POV or i will edit the article. Bringing the conflict in Sudan is completely out of context and un-necessary, this article is about AFRO-ARABS - there are millions. AFRICANS, and ARABS mixed, having intermarriage and children - simple as that. Gmflash

What are you talking about? I didn't refer to the conflict in Sudan. The only edits I had on this page were 4 correcting the false claim that Eritreans, Somalis, and Djiboutians were Afro-Arab and including data on the Rashaida (the only Arabs in the region, who are only "Afro-Arab" in the sense that they reside in Africa and are Arabs). I also had one edit reverting an IP removing info about variations in ancestry and appearance of Arabs. So, I think you have my edits confused with those of somebody else. As for the Arab slave trade, the only thing I really did there was to correct info on the slaves coming out of the border regions of Ethiopia and the Arab presence as traders on the coast. I never removed the neutrality tags and the like that you added, so do not confuse my actions with those of others. It's all in the page histories, so you can review them for yourself. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 08:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok I see, I apologize you didnt put those things in, but you didnt change them either. You were perfectly happy to go along with the biases in both the Arab Slave trade article and this one. Instead of people fixing minor grammar, how about fixing the main source of factual innacuracy and unsourced propaganda? I would rather have a correct, unbiassed article with incorrect grammar than a false, propaganda article with correct grammar. Gmflash 03:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't want to get involved in either of those issues because I don't consider myself informed enough to make a good decision. I have my own idea as to what Afro-Arab should refer to, but not enough information on its historical and current usage. Likewise with the name of the eastern slave trade (Arab, Muslim, whatever) and what it's historically been referred to as. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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"they have long lost african identities"?? WHO said this? name ONE afro-arab who says they have long lost African identity. This is a contradiction in the nature of AFRO-ARAB, their definition is AFRO - arab, so how can they lose half of their identity. Ofcourse they claim they are ARABS. because they ARE Arabs. They speak ARABIC and have arab blood, but they also have African blood. People in Africa, North Africa, and parts of the Middle East have mixed bloods for thousands of years, resulting in Afro-arabs, afro-berbers, berber arabs, islamic africans, etc. etc. it could go on. just like Black Brazillians, wont say we are black - brazillian, just afro-brazillian, or to a non-brazillian, would not even say that, they wood just say "brazillian" cos they speak Portugese and have brazillian culture and most likely have non-african blood as well (ie. native american or portugese as well). So too, afro-arabs or Africans living in Arab countries adopt arabic culture, (many through Islam), and gradually became Arabic - ie. islamic/arab names. inter-marriage etc.

You are sick. you are exploiting the situation in Sudan to trick black people into hating arabs and "afro-arabs". You are trying to make it out as an arab/afro-arab conspiracy to hate and kill blacks, or at least put people in that frame of mind. But how can this be? Afro-arabs ARE Black. Your arguments are weak and your logic is twisted, wont be tolerated. Get real man, stop being such a damn fool and grow up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gmflash (talk • contribs) 10:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Bias

"The largest group of Afro-Arabs were acquired through Arab conquest" (?? what does this statement really mean? What is it implying? That Afro-Arabs are some sort of outcast breed? That somehow because they have an arab mix they can no longer be considered African?).Where is the evidence for this? It doesnt even make any grammatical sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gmflash (talk • contribs) 08:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Afro Arab

There is another definition of Afro Arab, which is people who are culturally Arab but racially African, like people who have lived in Arabia for thosands of years. Arab isnt a race so i think we need to add this hear because to be Afro-Arab doesnt mean not to be 100% African. Just like African-American most def doesnt mean not to be African.--Halaqah 13:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

- Yeh I see what you mean. Yeh, exactly, well "race" is a subjective term in itself, because it can only be measured in comparison to other "races", and this is all arbitrary really. ie. Cavalli-Sforza population genetics study. Arab is not a race as such, definitely a language, but its a collection of similar traits, customs, culture etc. united by the Arabic language, similar to notion of "Latino" in the Americas. but how to phrase this in the article? Gmflash

I disagree. A person who is 100% African is not Afro-Arab. In order to be Afro-Arab you must have Arab blood.

Reverted edits

/Man, where can i start? You havent sourced anything yet your article is making some peculiar claims. That an ancient arabian tribe looked like modern day African Americans?? I dont see why only African American, why not just African? And even so there is no proof for such things, and if there is, provide your source. Also, there is no history of ancient Aryan tribes going into and enslaving people in the Arabian peninsula or Africa, yes they had protectorates, vassal states, but generally people under Persian rule were treated well, ie. Cyrus charter for human rights, the first ever human rights record in history of human civilisation, so that even conquered people would have a chance to live in peace. see - history of Iran. Please dont make such claims as they are offensive. Also,

"present day arabs are a mixture of iranians and tribes of iranians from india and in no way are the ancient arribi(arabs) The ancient arribi were the yaruba tribe. This is why the transliteration name sounds the same because they are the same people and they got kicked out of mecca and crossed into what today is called africa"

This is just ignorance, Arabs and Persians speak a different language, (arabic for arabs, farsi for persians). They have different customs, culture, etc. but share a common religion, Islam. The arabs have inhabited the arabian penisula for recorded history, maybe they werent as light skinned but certainly, since Arabic language is the unifying factor among arabs, it is very likely that there were both light and dark skinned arabs inhabiting the Arabian peninsula since ancient times. ie. Look at Somalians, they speak Arabic, or Arabic-related languages, but are also black, but also share some Arab features as well. As for iranians, they are united by the common language of farsi, and trace their ancestry back to ancient Iranian empires, (Aryans, Cyrus, Darius, etc.) but also probably share ancestry with Arabs, (through Islam), Kurds, Turks, Mongols (Mongol invasions of Iran), and Punjabis (Pakistan, etc.)

"They were small and slender and had oval faces with long limbs and slight chin with aquiline nose slanted to round eyes, curly to frizzy kinky hair and black skin to dark brown and brown skin."

This is complete speculation, and rather irrelevant to the article anyway. There is no way you could know or describe how inhabitants of ancient Arabia looked like, especially not to that detail, where is the source>?.

Somalis speak Somali, an Afro-Asiatic language that's only distantly related to Arabic. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes i know somalis speak Somali, however many also speak Arabic as a second langusge (its taught in schools and is a large part of formal literature etc.). The fact that Somali and Arabic are both Afro-Asiatic languages, and many words are shared infact shows that they are closely related, I have Somali friends and when i hear them speak it sounds very much like Arabic, I could not tell the difference between ppl speaking Somali and Arabic.

Gmflash 13:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

What large Afro-Arab population does Egypt have?

Egypt doesn't have a sizable Afro-Arab national population along the lines of Mauritania. If it is Nubians that this article meant, then Nubians (by all definitions of the word including self identification) are not Arabs. There are dark skinned Egyptians, but even they are clearly distinct even from the most Arabized Northern Sudanese and they neither self identify as African nor are they identified as such by the rest of the Arab world or by African populations. There is though a small number of people who are clearly of African ancestry, Arabized, and not Nubian, but nothing similar to Mauritania or even Morocco. I have removed reference to Egypt, be my guest to reformat the statement to satisfy above reservations.

On another note, this article is extremely weak. What exactly is the central piece of information it tries to translate? What is the main argument? Is it racial? Because for most Arabs race is marginal to culture and language. So is it history? I recommend this article be deleted or restructured and reworded fundamentally.

--Karkaron 08:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Sudan

From my understanding and from the encyclopedias I read, Sudanese people are not afro arabs by the defintion of being mixed with Arab. They said those mixed with arab are about 1% of all arabs however the population does have lots of africans who are of arabic culture.

• Yes, and Afro-Arab does not only mean people who are mixed, but also black people who identify as Arabs on cultural and linguistic grounds. After all, Arabs are not a race. Funkynusayri (talk) 14:09, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

"The Darfur conflict is among Arab and non-Arab speaking black Africans of many ethnicities in Sudan."

The janjaweed militia is from Darfur. The rebels are from Darfur. They all speak Arabic (and may also speak other languages, depending on tribal affiliation). The conflict is not about race, religion, or ethnicity, because the people fighting amongst one another do not differ in race, religion, or ethnicity. One of the references[[1]] for this statement specifically refers to this "Arab versus African" classification as inaccurate, dangerous, and troubling, so you're basically contradicting your alleged source of information.Shirazness (talk) 06:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This Article is a start

There is little reason to go askew on this topic. While one can discuss the demographics of Sudan, the Darfur conflict could easily dominate and cloud out this topic. It is known that the African presence in North Africa to the Middle East is due to several factors:

• Salt trade
• Slave trade
• Pilgrimages

A good study of Afro-Arabs can be done by studying those in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. There were several detailed reports in the news over the last two years of Afro-Arabs in Iraq. Also Saudi soccer player Reda Tukar who is of Nigerian descent (2nd or 3rd generation). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.240.106 (talk) 06:15, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Afro-Arabs???

Mostly of Egyptians, Algerians, Libyans, Moroccans, etc...are arabs (because they speak arab) and Africans (because they were born in the african continent) and are not black. This article should be renamed "black arab". —Preceding unsigned comment added by MucosoPucoso (talk • contribs) 07:10, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

• yes, caucasoids of northern africa are africans, because not are blacks; in the middle brain, all africans are blacks, but it´s not is the reality..in africa have diversity of races; in anciet madagascar have mongoloid race of southeast asia, in anciet north africa whites, etc..)!the colonial france destroied the mongoloids of madagascar with black slaves (genomic genocide) and the berbers via false borders.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.33.193 (talk) 19:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Changes done

I tried to improve the article by removing the irrelevant Darfur issues which had nothing to do with this subject.The darfur issue has its own wikipedia article.I also added, that Afro-Arab may actually mean an Arab of full or partly African ancestry, but also an African of full or partly Arabian ancestry.Please do not try to impose United States racial standards upon the people of Africa and Arabia.Those that may be conidered "black" in the US might be considered "white" on the Arabian Peninsula".Personally I find, there is much less "colour awareness" in Saudi Arabia then in India for example.Even if people of different skin tone do not often marry. Please note that not all dark skinned Arabs are of recent African ancestry, even if they got black skin and frizzy hair.Some dark skinned groups may actually represent ancient indigenous people of Arabia, of which ALL Arabs are a to some extend more or less a mixture. Arabs are not a race but a mix of a multitude of races. I also added two more sections linking to the Zunj rebellion and Antar Ibn Al Shaddad, a famous "Afro-Arab" hero of pre-islamic times.If nobody objects, I will remove the neutrality tag and the expansion tag ???. Please comment.

White Arabs?

Where is that article? How can it go one way? Most Arabs have African in them anyway so this title is null and void. Whites have been mixed in with Arab-related peoples which INCLUDES African, so where is that article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.89.86 (talk) 15:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

this is the biggest joke i've never heard there is no arab who have african in them ! arabs are native indigenous semitic haplogroup J1 & J2 people they have nothing in comon and deal with african ! dont mix african with arab total different people,race culture,langage the only arab people who have african blood are not arab they are african slave desecnt living in the middle east or north africa ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.196.180.177 (talk) 15:01, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Afro-Arab=Arab

The modern Arabs are not a race but a multi-racial, broad ethnicity. If you were going to talk about Afro-Arabs, you have also to talk about Persian-Arabs, Aramean-Arabs, Hellenic and Roman Arabs, Coptic Arabs, Berber Arabs, Kurdish Arabs, Turkic Arabs, Indian-Arabs, etc. But no body talks about Arabs this way.

• no, afro-arabs are arabs only in the culture, because not in the etnicity or race; are mullatoes of the arab expansion in the middle ages with black female slaves..ao contrario dos judeus em que a identidade se passa por via matrilinear, os arabes adotam a via patrilinear, enquanto a uma gota dos eua e mesmo as leis de nuremberg adotam ambas as vias.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.33.193 (talk) 20:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

biggest joke i've never heard ! there is nothing called turkic arabs or coptic arabs ahhaah !: arabs are a race an ethnic group of native people of the middle east ! turkic are central asian people,persian have nothing in common with arabs and kurdish have nothing to do with arabs you are the most idiot personn i've never saw ! roman arabs ahahahah or berber arabs ! you'll never see a berber saying that he is an arab !

the afro arabs are african descent people who live among the arabs ! arab is not multi racial arabs is uniracial there is only one type of arab.

Obama?

Should Obama be mentioned somewhere here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.221.92.43 (talk) 02:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

• he may have arab blood but kenya is not an arabic state culturally speaking or there is no arab identified people. so for me its a no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ImASupaStar (talk • contribs) 00:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Obama has nothing to do with Afro Arabs. He has an Arab name, but that is because of his father being a Muslim. FunkMonk (talk) 10:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

• obama is a afro-arab.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.33.193 (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Zanj Revolt?

This part is useless so i think its better delete it cause it only concerns the Black Iraqis —Preceding unsigned comment added by ImASupaStar (talk • contribs) 01:09, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Arab is defiantly a Race

Ancient Arabs were Semitic and that makes present day Arab ( particularly Arabs living in the peninsula AKA Arabians ) Semitic too not black or a mixed, and that BTW had been proven genetically and genealogically if u ppl think that black ppl are Arabs just because they speak Arabic then you must be stupid, YES there is something called afro-Arab. Arabs might not use this term but they defiantly act like it.

Semitic is a language family, not a race. FunkMonk (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

• semitic is a etno-family, with semitic languages and east-mediterranean race armenoid and araboid.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.33.193 (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually I would wager that Arab doesnt exist anymore as a distinct race. Arabs have historically had a low population to begin with, and secondly, Islam and its Hajj pilgrimage requirement has mandated that people from as far away as Nigeria, Pakistan, India, China etc go to Mecca once during their lifetime. There have been literally billions of non-arabs moving into and out of Arabia/Mecca during the past 1400 years. Surely many of them chose to stay, or married a Arab during Hajj...The phenotype of many "arabs" definitely shows that to be the case...coastal "arabs" on the Red Sea tend to be almost black, while many coastal "Arabs" on the Indian Ocean side have a Indian type of look. 107.222.205.242 (talk)

Comorians are notAfro-Arabs in this sense

Comorians have Arab heritage but they would better be included in their own heritage or possibly the Swahili tribe.Domsta333 (talk) 08:29, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:36, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Afro-Arab → Zanj OR Black People#Arabia – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC) Original research , the term Afro-Arabs or Arabs of Africa "عرب أفريقيا" means arab countries in Africa Continent [2] [3] not arabs of sub-sahara origin, we simply use Zanj or "زنج" to refer to sub sahara ancestry --Prince jasim ali (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. Both the proposed titles are already occupied. What you are suggesting is a merge/redirect, not to move the present article. Try Wikipedia:Proposed mergers instead. Jenks24 (talk) 06:18, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ethnic Black (AlSud) VS Ethnic Arab Skin Color

This article describes dark skin north African ethnic groups as Black!!! it's true there are very few minorities have Sub-Saharan roots. But ethnic group like Amazigh, Arab, Coptic are still living in North Africa and in these cultures the genealogy is passed on the fathers side, so that doesn't make them ethnic Black. for instance in Egypt you can find ethnic Arabs (Bedouin) in Sinai and Upper Egypt, ethnic Coptic (Muslims and Christians) the majority, Ethnic Amazigh in Siwa Oasis and Ethnic Nubian in Nubian Lake, and each ethnic group is distinguish and proud of their culture, so no ones can really propose to call all these people Afro Arab (Al'Arab Al Sud) although they are living in Africa continent

Moreover in Pre Islamic Arabia there were numerous dark skin ethnic Arabs from Arab peninsula both Adnani And Qahtani, i.e: Ali Ibn Abi Taleb, Abd Allah al Nafs al Zakiyya, Mussa Bin Abdullah al Akmel and Azd, So basically the American one drop rule is not valid in MENA region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.33.51 (talk) 06:55, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

lol since when ! the only dark skin people in arabian were the ethiopian slave! pre islamic arabs were still white/light skinned people as you can see the all the king or emirats,sultante are white skinned ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.196.180.177 (talk) 14:56, 22 December 2013 (UTC)