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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sitush (talk | contribs) at 05:11, 9 April 2015 (→‎Shakya: add). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


... or panic madly and freak out?
Have you come here to rant at me? It is water off a duck's back.

you are so cute

you are so cute and lovely — Preceding unsigned comment added by Controllergenralofdelhi (talk • contribs) 03:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can't wait to see how you respond to this. --NeilN talk to me 03:35, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. mm --AmritasyaPutraT 05:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tito --Tito Dutta (talk) 05:11, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You should be banned for that bad pun Mr. Dutta. Hmmm, somebody obviously hasn't seen Sitush before. Tito is the one who looks dreamy, especially when dancing. mmmm..... Bgwhite (talk) 06:07, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, unexpected Wiki-love... That's good! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:35, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ohhhhhhhh....that's really cute. mm Jethwarp (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@NeilN: I'm lost for words! - Sitush (talk) 09:08, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I love you sitush

Delhi

Delhi is capital of india — Preceding unsigned comment added by Controllergenralofdelhi (talk • contribs) 04:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wedding in Lover's Point

Have a cup of coffee — Preceding unsigned comment added by Controllergenralofdelhi (talk • contribs) 04:15, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Golla caste

Dear sitush, why did you remove all of my newly added content regarding golla caste? 04:59, 27 March 2015 TCSadvocate

Someone who was editing while not logged into a user account had restored a very poor version of the article. You then amended that restoration with still more poor content. Wikipedia requires that pretty much every statement made here is verifiable by reference to reliable sources, which was not the case in this instance. - Sitush (talk) 07:46, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

you are again removing content

Please slow down — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohinisinghaliya (talk • contribs) 15:32, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Rohinisinghaliya: I am not the one who is rushing. You need to read WP:V and WP:RS, not to mention WP:COI and WP:NPOV. Carry on as you are doing and you will find yourself with an enforced break when you could read those things but it would be better if you did so now. - Sitush (talk) 15:54, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Sitush: but article was fully sorced you knowRohinisinghaliya (talk) 15:57, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

according to WP:V the articles had got enough sorces Rohinisinghaliya (talk) 15:59, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Has it fuck. Even the ones that are present are not reliable. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here on Wikipedia, everyone is expected to be polite. Unfortunately, I noticed that a comment you posted wasn't very nice. You are allowed to criticize editors constructively, but please remember to still be friendly. Wikipedia would appreciate it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohinisinghaliya (talk • contribs) 16:35, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Has it fuck?" Not an ideal response to a question from another user about your edit. Liz Read! Talk! 16:08, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page watcher) There is no question mark. - NQ (talk) 16:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Liz, you need to check the recent talk page history and, yes, NQ is correct. - Sitush (talk) 16:16, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not taking them seriously but they are being disruptive and, as you are aware, I get this sort of crap day in, day out, both here and on article talk pages etc. I know that people say you have to have a thick hide to be an admin but there are an awful lot of admins who don't get the abuse etc to the extent I get it. I'm no saint: every now and again I lose my temper. It's just a wonder that it is quite so infrequent - comments such as that from Liz above don't exactly improve it. - Sitush (talk) 16:37, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't making a comment on the quality of the edit but on how you responded to their questions. I think you can be civil to any editor, even to a troll or sock. The material looked like it was sourced to me and I thought you would provide an explanation not a epithet. I don't see how a comment to be civil hurts the process of working with other editors. As for Bladesmulti, I'll chalk up your poor attitude to you having a bad day. I hope it gets better. Liz Read! Talk! 18:05, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That just shows how little you know, I guess. And if you thought that stuff was sourced then you perhaps should stay away from content work - much of it had no citation at all. Have you seen the abuse I get and generally ignore? - Sitush (talk) 18:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: And did you see [1] or my comment at the article talk page? You ar eout of your depth here, Liz. Take a read of WP:PACT and spend a week editing in this subject area: some places on WP will never be pleasant to work in. - Sitush (talk) 18:17, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) If you ask me, Sitush sometimes AGF a lil too much. He is more than civil in his response to abuses like this. Even after pointing to the various edit summaries and an explanation on the talk page, the continued trolling does not merit a better response. - NQ (talk) 18:20, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have seen around, Liz is being a busybody on many talk pages. Sitush just don't care anymore now, just deny recognition, this Rohinisinghaliya is nothing but a sock of Ashutoshsinghkaulvalmiki, had spammed whole talk page of Vigyani with many of duck IPs and accounts with insults, just because he had told this disruptive user to read OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. They also required revision delete. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:56, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Bladesmulti: Great! I just opened an SPI at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rohinisinghaliya. I'm not sure how to merge it with this one. Can you help? - NQ (talk) 17:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, both users blocked by Ponyo. - NQ (talk) 17:01, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ponyo should merge that case to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Ashutoshsinghkaulvalmiki and this sock should be blocked forever. Rohinisinghaliya was repeating the version of Volt60x. Volt60x was the actual writer.[2][3][4] Bladesmulti (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Next meetups in North England

Hello. Would you be interested in attending one of the next wikimeets in the north of England? They will take place in:

If you can make them, please sign up on the relevant wikimeet page!

If you want to receive future notifications about these wikimeets, then please add your name to the notification list (or remove it if you're already on the list and you don't want to receive future notifications!)

Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:21, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
It's just a Barnstar, in contrast to the real-life harrasment, but anyway, your efforts, and the shit you receive in return, are not unnoticed. Keep up the good work! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 22:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. - Sitush (talk) 08:29, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Dhanwantari(Caste)

With refs listed as answer.com and the author, I have a feeling this one should be deleted. Bgwhite (talk) 08:05, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I know of the name as a legendary doctor or god (or maybe a god known for medicine?) but not as a caste. I'll have a dig around. - Sitush (talk) 08:28, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a caste but a surname, just like Vaidhya or Vaidhya used by a section of Bengali Hindus. these are all pointing to the same caste. Please also take a reference from Pal (Surname), they are akin of Kayastha, as both sometimes use the surname Pal.-- Mahensingha (Talk) "Thanx n Regards" 09:23, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Mahensingha. I'm coming to that conclusion, too. I've found this, where footnote 12 could be used at Baidya but thus far nothing else. I've got a fair few books to trawl through offline and I need to spend some time searching through GBooks/JSTOR/Questia etc but, yes, my gut feeling is that the article has no place here under that title. Just (yet another) poor article about an Indian last name, of the type I am becoming tired of having to PROD. - Sitush (talk) 09:31, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All I can find is this from the utterly hopeless H. H. Risley, who was so confused about caste that in the eyes of many people he is a big cause of the problems that exist today. Suggest PROD'ing the article, with a link to this discussion, although if there is scope for CSD then that would be quicker. - Sitush (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. My PROD was removed without explanation. I have sent it to AfD. - Sitush (talk) 04:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dhanvantari means Ayurveda doctor dont delt page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panditharajulu (talk • contribs) 04:47, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You can present your arguments at the deletion discussion, which is linked in the notice on the article page. I suggest that you read the comments above and also the WP:V and WP:RS policies before doing so. - Sitush (talk) 04:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

kuruba

Hi, I have been editing in Wikipedia since 2005, and I have been inactive for a while, but the article about Kurubas has been vandalised and I have reverted it to its original version and don't know what your problem is in this regard

I explained the reason at User talk:Ganesha1 long before you asked here. Please read your own talk page. - Sitush (talk) 13:50, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

threat

boss I dont know where in india you are from, but the current Kuruba article does not make sense, I have put in lot of effort and research into this srticle and you come along and stop this article from being published, Not only this but quite a few of my articles, I want tto take this higher up as you are being obstructive User talk:Ganesha1

@Ganesha1: if you want to "take this higher up as [I am] being obstructive" then feel free to do so. I wouldn't advise it, though. I've not had a trip to WP:ANI for a while but I doubt I would come off worse if you tried. - Sitush (talk) 11:46, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

respond

kindly respond [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decentscholar (talk • contribs) 15:47, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Admin stalkers?

We seem to have a tag-team of anons edit warring at Template:Rajput Groups and Taoni in contravention of RS and V. I'm abot to go to bed but if any passing admin stalker would care to take a look ... - Sitush (talk) 20:23, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Admirenepal

I think he's back as ‎Johnsmithsawr: [6]. Ogress smash! 07:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think so, yes. Best to take it to SPI and request a CU, though, because it is just possible that this is someone else. Ponyo has that SPI page watchlisted, so they will see the request and hopefully act on it. - Sitush (talk) 08:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Now reported at the Admirenepal SPI page. - Sitush (talk) 11:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

respond

please respond on my talk page! Decentscholar (talk) 09:21, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done, although I'd rather than issues which specifically relate to content are dealt with on the article talk page. We're shutting people out unless we do so. - Sitush (talk) 11:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Isa Khan

Hi, please do not do this again. As was clearly stated in the edit summary where it was removed, see User:Sitush/Common#Castecats. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 03:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon. but i do it for a very good reason, thanks for noticing the edit. sorry if i must revert your undo. Ahendra (talk) 16:31, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Message

you have one message on my talk page. please click hereEshwar.omTalk tome 20:36, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting Jat articles

Why are you deleting articles and contents relating to Jats. It shows your bias. Kindly don't do this. burdak (talk) 05:09, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What bias is that? Are you, too, engaging in an April Fool's lark, Burdak? - Sitush (talk) 03:40, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What authority do you have over Jat matters? I do not find any where that you have added any content to Jat related articles. Then how do you judge whether such and such content is to be deleted. Simply this shows your racial bias in deleting Jat matters. I have observed that you have deleted content from articles relating Jats with reliable references without any discussion. What dou you mean by engaging in an April Fool's lark? burdak (talk) 04:45, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Burdak, I have deleted content from all sorts of caste articles. I've also added content to all sorts of them. There is no bias for or against any particular group, merely a better attempt to comply with Wikipedia's policies than you have ever managed. I'm not perfect but I am a damn sight nearer to perfection than you in this regard. You should know from notices on your own talk page that many articles which you created have been deleted in their entirety without my involvement.
If you want to contribute something useful and compliant then please do so. If your return is merely to snipe at me, please consider going away again. - Sitush (talk) 04:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) @burdak Sitush's actions in removing unreferenced material are entirely in keeping with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Accusing another editor of bias without foundation is a personal attack, which is not permitted. Please refrain from making such comments in the future. Thanks.  Philg88 ♦talk 05:15, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify something: for those unfamiliar with Burdak, aside from general problems relating to pro-Jat pov-pushing, use of unreliable sources (or none at all) etc, this has been a major concern and is still largely unresolved, in part because Burdak hasn't co-operated and chose instead to take their tripe and republish it elsewhere. - Sitush (talk) 05:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fools

Yes, there seem already to be a lot of them around on this project today. Pissed off with the childish idiocy. See you tomorrow. - Sitush (talk) 05:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's bad enough dealing with the regular junk but now we have editors who should know better disrupting articlespace. --NeilN talk to me 05:57, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, including some admins who I already hold in very low regard. That said, it probably affects me more than the majority simply because of the length of my watchlist, which was lit up with the stuff. - Sitush (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Commnet from Pappuverma11

Hi Sitush,

Please reply for my below query. As you edited my update.

I want to know how etymology works. Can any word can be derived from anything with prejudices. How Kakaha (a flank or enclosure), or Karsha (a furrow), or Kachhna (term for collecting the opium pods of the poppy plant) or Kachhar (the low, rich alluvial lands by the river banks) became Kachhi. Is there any similarity among Kachhi and these words? By any Indian language grammar, this is not possible to derive Kachhi word for a person from kakaha, karsha, kachhna or kachhar. Language and residents of Kachchh (Katch) area of Gujrat is known as Kachhi. Is there is any etymology for this too. In Mahabharat Aadiparv, there is description of Kachchhap caste. What is meaning of Kachchhap. Why tortoise (Kachhua) is called Kachchh and Kurm. How these words derived. Actually in ancient Vedic-Buddhist era, there was tradition of keeping name of dynasty on the name of birds, animals and trees due their specific good attribute and there were many such examples in Indian history like Matsya (Fish), Nag (Cobra), Kachhi or Kachchh or Kachhap or Kachhwah (Tortoise), Shakya (Shak tree), Koliya (Kol tree), Maurya (Peacock), Vrishal (Bull), Kurmi or Kurm (Tortoise), Singh (Lion), Sachan (Eagle) etc. In any point of history, Kshatriya did not leave cultivation. In peace time or after fall of kingdom, they cultivated land only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pappuverma11 (talk • contribs) 09:15, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Pappuverma11, I'm afraid that I am no linguist. You'd need to talk with someone who understands the development of language. An additional problem here is that you are referring to words that are transliterated from their native language: all sorts of corruptions can go on, even without the headaches that transliteration can cause. - Sitush (talk) 14:25, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kakatiya dynasty

Constant unexplained changes. Maybe revert back to a good version and the ask for semi-protection? --NeilN talk to me 14:05, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That article has been a pain for years and very little good comes from the anons. I think it is a case for mop-wielding by The Blade of the Northern Lights. Blade doesn't mess around when things are as bad as this, while many who frequent RFPP tend to be more wary. Let's see if we get a response to the ping. - Sitush (talk) 14:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I don't see any good coming from leaving the article open to get more useless noise. Indefinitely semiprotected. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Blade. - Sitush (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear sitush, As i agree to most of the good work you've put in the article but you miss out on the contributor section adding Reddy and Velama completely ignoring the Brahmins who gave up Vedic practice and took on to Administration of the kingdom. for example Akkanna and Madanna and their forefathers and offsprings have put on a lot of work to rebuild Kakatiya Dynasty and administration under Islamic rule. They were of Niyogi subsect which till date have terms like Golconda Vyapari(Trader), Aruvela niyogi(6000 Niyogi) and Pradhama Sakha Niyogis. They were all administrators of the Kakatiya dynasty and kept its heritage alive. Please dont ignore their contributions and sacrifices. PS:Im not niyogi and have anything todo with Niyogi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psuedocode (talk • contribs) 00:32, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Baghal Rajput

Hi Sitush Please dont be unjust. Baghal Rajputs have nothing in comon with Baghal State or its rulers. You can understand there exist many names in common despite having nothing in common. Please remove the tag. Warm wishes and regards, Gulsaid Khan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulsaid khan (talk • contribs) 17:02, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That there is no connection is precisely my point at the deletion discussion. If you want to argue for keeping the article then you need to do it there, not here. - Sitush (talk) 17:25, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Need help

Hi Sitush, I am new here and I think that there is an edit on an article which I think is incorrect and I want to revert it how should I revert it appropriately so I get disruptive? Thanks! Gameroffun (talk) 11:58, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean revert in a way that is not disruptive? - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that is what I mean. 14:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gameroffun (talk • contribs)

Baghal Rajput

Sitush you have proposed my article "Baghal Rajput" for deletion on the ground that another article already exists under the name Bhagal State. I will try to draw a line in a very simple phonetic difference They are differnt in that one is "Baghaal RAJPUT" and the other is Bhaagal State. Both are poles apart and not common in any way. on id Baghaal other one is Baagal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulsaid khan (talk • contribs) 16:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:CIR. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Baghal Rajput

Hi Situ I have gone through the link you suggested. It seems to be about competence. In other words my edits should not mess up the templetes. I assure you that I will not make any edits whatsoever anywhere unless in learn it but please restore the article 'Baghal Rajput". There was nothing mala fide on my part and I also know that bonafide alone is no excuse. I am beginner. I will take due care but please restore it/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulsaid khan (talk • contribs) 17:14, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No idea

Sorry, but something very strange happened with my revert button.[7] No idea what it actually was. It had something to do with an attempt to make this edit, which was also slightly botched. (no edit comment).

I blame Java. Or the Internetz. Or Bish.

Peter Isotalo 18:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

IAC

Beckett would have been proud of this. Abecedare (talk) 18:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"We are all born mad. Some remain so." - Sitush (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Human3015

This user has started supporting indic scripts and has said to me that wikipedia has a policy of indication of indic text in local language in initial then what is to be done with wp:indic scripts, Most of my edits has been devoted to remove indic scripts Ankush 89 (talk) 12:10, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to be adding them for places, which is an exception to the local consensus provided that they only add scripts in the official language of the place. Do you have examples where they have been doing it for, say, personal names? - Sitush (talk) 20:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

SAINI

you are not allowing me to delete hatnote which carries information based on the figments of imaginations of a group of people.

You said there is a valid reason for not removing it .

Kindly let me know that "VALID" reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vrgb123 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We disambiguate where there is a possibility that the reader might be visiting the "wrong article", ie: there are similarly-named or similarly-focussed articles. I provided you with a link to WP:DAB and am not sure how I can improve on that. Perhaps one of my talk page watchers might have more clue than me. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Essay

You really should have an essay on CasteSources. documenting the issues with Raj-era sources, and even sources like The people of India. Will save me some time and save you tons. If you give it a start, I can chip in linking or copy-pasting from past RSN discussions etc. Abecedare (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I keep meaning to write something but it just makes me feel bleurgh. It would need to be separate from my cheat sheet at User:Sitush/Common, I think.
BTW, I'm beginning to think that the latest PoI issue may have been headed off at the pass. Did you read the review that was cited? Just curious. - Sitush (talk) 20:10, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I speed-read through it. Not flattering.
And that would be the benefit of documenting the issues with these sources. If you or I say "these sources are problematic" even good-faith editors are likely to think of it as an "I don't like it opinion", especially for a source like The people of Inida with its governmental backing, academic authors, university press publisher etc. So if we can have a central repository of academic reviews of these sources that will save us (esp. you) effort and is more likely to convince the reader (at least the ones, who can be convinced).
I am thinking of something along the lines of the Gyan section of User:Sitush/Common with sections of Rose, the Gazetteers, People of India etc; and if possible, a listing of contemporary trustworthy journals/books/scholars. Abecedare (talk) 20:23, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just for completeness: there was a more flattering review of The people of India in E&PW (IIRC, will dig up link later), but it focused more on the chief editor and the effort that was put in than the result. Abecedare (talk) 20:26, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think I might have seen the E&PW article when I was writing our article.
Re: Rose, Risley etc, there would probably be no need for a section on each author because many were of the same ilk, representing the official reaction to the events of 1857: "if we know them better, we can control them better" (paraphrase). Obviously, the arguments for pre-1857 sources (Tod, Mill etc) are different and so too are oddball items such as Wikeley and PoI, although in those two specific cases the sheer amount of plagiarism of Rose etc makes it fairly simple. - Sitush (talk) 20:40, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I abused your user-space, not for the first time, and seeded the essay: see User:Sitush/CasteSources.

Clearly just a start, since I don't even mention the issues of ulterior motivations, plagiarism etc, and Tod had totally slipped my mind. Btw, I'd recommend relying mainly on recent reviews, and not using the authors own words to impeach them since the latter can be ragrded as WP:OR and more importantly is a technique that can often be abused to impeach even the best of the authors/scholars. In any case, I hope the seed-essay tempts you enough to expand and run with it (late mixed metaphor warning :) ) Cheers. .Abecedare (talk) 21:17, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, no probs. I'll see what I can come up with and, obviously, some things will turn up as I go along. Ibbetson, for example, is a curious case and gained some limited plaudit from, IIRC, Bayly. My draft about the census - User:Sitush/sandbox3 - probably has some useful stuff in it also.
I'm afraid that familiarity breeds contempt: I'm so used to trotting out the reasons in shorthand that it's ages since I referred to a fair few of the sources that supported those reasons. This is going to take time. It would have been helpful if the likes of Qwryxian and Boing! were still around but, of course, the caste stuff is a graveyard for good contributors. - Sitush (talk) 22:44, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work expanding the essay (just noticed it). Two other points that need to be covered with regards to colonial-era censuses, gazettes etc:

  • The selection bias in terms of whom the British administrators interacted with.
  • The observer effect on the caste system (which means that what was true then may not be true now)

Intended mainly as a memory aid for me/you. Am sure Jenkins and/or Bayly deal with both since those are the two sources I was browsing over the weekend. Will look up exact details and add sometime this week (when I am not busy with urotherapy!) Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 06:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • You're taking the piss, right? Sorry, Bad joke - I hope things go ok ; Yes, I have much more to add to the draft, of which selection bias is a particularly pressing point. Doubtless, once the thing looks like it is near completion, it will then need a massive trimming. I could write a lengthy chapter on the subject. - Sitush (talk) 06:43, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Only talking of this. Not otherwise my , uh, cup of tea ;-) Abecedare (talk) 07:05, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Christian violence in India

Hi Sitush, do you watch the page Anti-Christian violence in India? It seems to be undergoing some serious surgery. Kautilya3 (talk) 16:05, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't. In fact, I cannot recall ever even looking at it. I think I've seen an edit summary or two flash by, so perhaps it has gone to one of the drama boards or an admin's talk page? My bet is the thing is and always will be a nightmare, probably involving some of the usual suspects. - Sitush (talk) 16:13, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Any admins around?

I've scoured by watchlist and can't see an active admin posting in the last hour or so, other than RegentsPark, who seemed to be on his way out.

Pappuverma11 is repeatedly deleting content from a small group of caste article and has at least twice moved Maurya caste, despite that article not even mentioning the alternate title that they've moved it to. (And despite it being plain wrong, but that's another story). The small group of articles are subject to repeated page protections precisely because of people like this. I've lost my rag particularly early on this occasion, I admit, but I know exactly where it is going to end up because of the long history behind the articles. Can someone please move Maurya caste back to where it should be and delete the various "Shakkya" and "Shakya" redirects. When I come off the ceiling, I'll try to explain WP:RM to Pappuverma11. - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved Maurya caste back where it evidently belongs (or at least where it should be until a WP:RM discussion). I haven't deleted the redirect page Shakyya caste because... ok, I'll admit it, because I don't understand what is going on. If this redirect is harmless, let's leave it until the dust settles. if it is somehow harmful (like it is patently untrue or something) let me know. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:54, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The Shakkya claim seems to be patently untrue. There may be confusion between the caste and the Mauryan Empire but if that is the supposed link then it is plain old Sanskritisation at work again. I do wish these people could spend their lives on something more important than bigging-up.
The problem with leaving redirects like that is they then point to them off-wiki as justification for the imagined connection, so we ourselves become a part of the myth creation. - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, redirect deleted pending a discussion of some kind. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:02, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again, Floquenbeam. - Sitush (talk) 18:11, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Wikipedia:Shakya caste

A tag has been placed on Wikipedia:Shakya caste, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

it was moved to make way for another move

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Gparyani (talk) 17:51, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Improvement suggestion for Esha Tewari Pande

Hello Sitush, how have you been?

I want to ask if you can help improving this article- Esha Pande. Or do you think its a notable personality? Shobhit Gosain Talk 18:32, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shobhit, I really do not have time to take on another article at the moment - I'm trying to develop three or four right now, as well as holding the fort on a couple of thousand others. The Pande article clearly needs a lot of work (see WP:Citing sources for starters) but she looks likely to be notable. I don't like the fact that people like her pass our notability requirements but we live in a silly, short-attention span pop culture world and the community at large disagree with me. - Sitush (talk) 18:38, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kushwaha Caste Information

Sitush,

Can you please read below materials and answer to me. In this article some ref. material and name are also included.

  1. Kushwaha is khatriya community in vedic verna system among 4 versions (brahmin,kshatriya,vaishya sudra).
  2. According to bodh granthas (specialy jatak) & puranic(specialy yayurveda,ramayan-valmiki & vishnu puran) kushwaha is brach of surya vansh in which lord Ram was born.
  3. Last 1000 of year india faced many attack by turk,afghan,mughal,british,duche& purtagese country(India)(golden bird) ruined many times(burn temples,educational institution i e nalanda university…som nath ….takshashila etc ) others called kushwaha on their proffession- Also wrong pronunciation(uchharan) i e. Kachwaha ,kachhi,sagaberiya, sagarwanshi, morya,murao etc.
  4. Islamic administrator were very cruel(unkind) so he started national language farsi(pesian) force fully n they were unable to use sanskrit pure so many variation found in many group.You all can see your registration of land (during mughal at your home rightt now in farsi) also called dakhil khariz…kewala….in village.

You must heard this proverb –(a)padhe farsi beche tel dekha ho karam ke khel Means-it is really surprise that he has studied farsi(persina) despite unable to get job in badshah darbar. (b)hath kangan ko arsi(mirror) kya padhe likhe ko farsi kya Means-if you are educated means profiencent in farsi else you not educated Indian culture got pain & worry again & again & forget past.

  1. During dharma sudhar andolan(also sansktitization late 18 century) scholar search history on the basis of puranic(vedas, sastra,ramayan) & bodh granth n find Kushwah root in suryavansh via kusha(twin son of lord rama)
  2. According to pandulipi(manuscript) of kasi/kachi (now varanasi) magadh (now patna) rohtas(sasaram) n gwalior etc it is proved success of same root …Some scholar of bhu(banaras hindu university) n dav(dayanand anglo vedic) with help of arya samaj formed organization that time called “kushwaha kshatriya mahasabha”(british-india)

1921 simon commision accepted root and ancestor history in suryavansh including 12 caste(100 gotra or sub caste i e koiery, kachhi, kachwaha,murao,magahiya guitar,kannojiya,bham, dangi,banafar,virdi,bhagat etc )

  1. kushwaha again face many challenges by land settlement(also lacaly called sitlmati or chakbandi,
  2. So finnaly The kushwaha including 12 caste & 100 gotra or sub caste in entire country …sanghe sakti kal yuge”lord budha”

Kachhi,--This is a caste which is originated from ShakyaVANSH or KUSH VANSH, known on the name of twin son of LORD RAMA(another being LAVA). After the Kalinga war, THE GREAT ASHOKA(58th line of KUSHA) decided no further war. After that many soldiers were unemployed and subsequently they had chosen agriculture (mainly vegetables) as their profession. The land use for the growth of vegetables is known as KORARD in local language (PALI, MAITHILI & MAGAHI) in the region. Thus, KOIRI OR KOERY are KUSHWAHA “KSHATRIYA SURYAVANSHI” via Maurya Vansh in the Indian caste system.

You can refer historian(a)James Tode (b)William Crooke (c) TH Hedley study of Indian caste system . Not only this you can see Yayurveda (Vanshvriksha) or VALMIKI RAMAYAN- UTTARKAND SARG-107. In RAJASTHAN & MP most of KUSHWAHA clan (Gotra OR Sub caste) taken due to his great leader “SAWAI JAY SINGH-II” he was also last king of KUSHWAHA from Jaipur”Jaynagar”(in 1948 Govt of India honor him RAJPRAMUKH due to peace fully merging of state). Pappuverma11 (talk) 21:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Pappuverma11: it looks to me as if you may not have read WP:RS as I suggested you should do on your talk page. Your first six points above certainly do not fit that policy. For those, you are relying on ancient primary sources and on spoken folklore etc, with the exception of the Simon Commission. Your next two points are quite simply not verifiable, or at least you do not provide anything that would help to verify the claims.
I know that James Tod and William Crooke are also not reliable sources. They have long been considered unsuitable for Wikipedia and, after some prompting from Abecedare, User:Sitush/CasteSources is being drafted to collate the numerous reasons why such British books simply will not suffice. I must admit ignorance of T. H. Hedley - I cannot recall ever seeing that name anywhere, let alone in relation to India, so it would help if you could provide a book title or a link to a webpage about him.
You are not the first person to claim that the Kushwaha etc caste articles are incorrect. The problem is, those articles do reflect what reliable sources say, ie: the works of modern academics. If the articles are wrong, in your opinion, then it may well be because they have hit the thorny issue of Wikipedia being about "verifiability, not truth". This does happen and I'm afraid there is no easy solution to it. - Sitush (talk) 06:15, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Shakya

This edit to Shakya removed cited content. The edit summary was "(WP:INDICSCRIPT etc)". I'm afraid I don't know what that means. I'm going to go ahead and restore what was removed. Could you please comment on the article's talk page about your reasoning for removing it? – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 03:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On further inspection, I see that you did not remove the footnote nor its citation, which is my main concern, so I'm not going to revert. I would still appreciate guidance on how the Sanskrit and Pali names should be presented. – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 03:34, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
They should not be presented. Did you read the link in my edit summary? - Sitush (talk) 05:39, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Greg Pandatshang: - see my response above. - Sitush (talk) 05:40, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I did, but I'm afraid I don't really "get" it. WP:INDICSCRIPT is itself quite terse and it links to an RfC page, which is quite verbose. Which articles are covered by this rule? Why would there be a rule against presenting information in a Wikipedia article? Why would the lede of Shakya be handled differently than any of the very large number of other Wikipedia articles that do present foreign scripts and transliterations? – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 03:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The issue has been raised on numerous occasions, at numerous venues. I can't explain it any better than it says and I'm not getting into a lengthy debate about it here. Scripts in Indian articles have long been a nightmare (well, India-related articles have been, period!). There are 28 official languages in the country and numerous other accepted languages; pov-pushing, vandalism and other such disruptive behaviour are of epidemic proportions and getting worse in large part due to WMF policies in the region. Scripts have long been a subtle target for that sort of disruption, taking advantage of the ignorance of most of even our experienced contributors.

The only exception of which I am aware is for place-names, where the official local language(s) can be used. That all articles have not been cleaned up is just something that, well, applies to pretty much everything else also; for example, articles with CS1 citation errors or {{refimprove}} tags. I don't understand the long-standing "inherent notability of secondary schools" BS but I live with it because it ain't gonna change and there is no point flogging that dead horse. - Sitush (talk) 05:09, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rajput

I've no idea why you manipulated the source so much in this edit, nor why you added completely unsourced and rather inflammatory material. However, please don't do it again. - Sitush (talk) 14:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised that you think the material is inflammatory. Also why do say that the source was manipulated? In India, there is this romantic notion that the Rajput steadfastly stood for their independence, however, as my sources suggest most Rajput rulers got on well with the Mughals and rose to high positions in the imperial service. Yes, I agree that the text regrding Shivaji and Jai Singh was unsourced but I was going to add references soon. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 18:16, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Jonathansammy: Rajput is a controversial article, so don't add any unsourced material. Gather your sources and cite them at the time of adding the statements. I'm aware of the sometimes insane posturing that quite a few Rajputs present on- and off-wiki but that doesn't give anyone the right to completely misrepresent a source, as you did. The misrepresentation was massively inflammatory and it seems from your message above that you are familiar with the problems. If you cannot see what the misrepresentation was then you should probably stay away from that article until you've gained more expertise in paraphrasing sources. - Sitush (talk) 18:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Message understood. Thanks. Regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 20:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thakur Sitaramdas Omkarnath

Hello Sitush, I would like to ask if you can help improving this article - Thakur Sitaramdas Omkarnath
Thank You Abhishek.bose2033 (talk) 21:00, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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