User talk:Simon Adler

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Dolphin-class submarine

Help for patrolling

Hi, I'm Jai98. I need help for reviewing the pages I created recently. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

Talkback

Hi, Irondome - first of all my apologies, I shouldn't have put that there. Now I know about this, I'm new. You had deleted the addition to the Herman Göring page about another claim that he had received cyanide pills through his wife Emmy's mouth, who would "kiss" him through the bars. The reference to The Accidental Caregiver is duly noted, however I scratched that reference and included an article from the LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2005/feb/07/local/me-goering7) which clearly states that has been a common claim set forth. I would think the LA Times is a credible enough source? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:F1A9:3900:C3B:668E:AB9A:3E19 (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Simon Adler. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Poetry#Niggers_in_the_White_House_concerns.
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Curtiss planes in 1933 and 2005 King Kong films

Hi, Irondome. You reverted my edit on King Kong (2005 film), but in fact... you're wrong. The variant used in both films (1933 and 2005) was not a fighter and was not the original Falcon, but one of the derived Helldiver variants, the F8C-5 or O2C-1.

Just check Curtiss Helldiver:

Curtiss Helldiver may refer to the following aircraft: F8C Helldiver, reconnaissance and bomber biplane of the 1920s

Or check Curtiss Falcon:

U.S. Navy variants were used initially as fighter-bombers with the designation F8C Falcon, then as the first U.S. Marine Corps dive bombers with the name Helldiver
The F8C-4 Helldiver variant initially saw service with the Navy, and the first production batch of 25 was transferred in 1931 to the Marine Corps. A total of 34 F8Cs redesignated as O2C-1 observation aircraft were also transferred to the Naval Reserve in 1931, serving with squadrons VN-10RD9, VN-11RD9, and VN-12RD9. Most of the 63 newer F8C-5/O2C-1 Helldivers also served with the Marines, remaining in service until 1936. The type was featured in a number of Hollywood films: Flight (1929), Hell Divers (1932) and King Kong, both the classic 1933 movie and the 2005 remake.

Regards. Kintaro (talk) 22:24, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. Let me show you some links I just found on the internet:

That latter, number 15, is from The Making of King Kong: The Official Guide to the Motion Picture. I don't own the book, but it seems it confirms that the planes were Helldiver fighter-bombers... Cheers... 23:19, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kintaro. Firstly may I say that I appreciate your approach and tone as a fellow Wikipedian.

Now to the meat :). the 9th Operations Group appears to be the mostly likely candidate as the unit in question. It was based at Mitchel Field NY, making its I.D even more positive. At this point the unit was using the Curtiss O-1B Falcon. This is not the Navy/Marine Helldiver. Furthermore the role of the unit was recce, which at the time also meant persuit duties. At no point does the unit or its role or indeed its location lead to a confusion with the Navy/Marine divebombing role. Even the units nominclature were radically different, and were stationed in Hawaii and Lousiniana (?). I think you are ID'ing the wrong type and formations. Respectfully Irondome (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again... and to the meat again :) Just read again Curtiss Falcon:

F8C-5 Helldiver [...] Model 49B with ring cowling; 63 built in 1930–31, later designated O2C-1.

So, this model, the one with the ring cowling, is exactly the one used in the 1933 and 2005 movies... as Peter Jackson, indeed, wanted an exact copy of the plane used in the 1933 version. Just watch again the movies and compare with historical photographs and data.

Plus, following King Kong (1933 film), the reference Making of King Kong: The Story Behind a Film Classic pretends that the take off of the planes was shot in 1932 in a base located in Long Island. I'm a European and never went to the United States... but isn't there, in today's Long Island, an airport or airfield?

Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 00:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed Kintaro, its called Mitchel Field which is in fact on Long Island. Please notice the very first photo in the Curtiss Falcon article shows an A3 later converted to the curtiss O-1B Falcon. It has precisely the same ring cowling as in both films, down to what appears to be twin Lewis guns So citing from the article sub-variants seems to be fruitless. I would suggest you are mixing up nominclatures of what are in fact almost indistinguishable sub-types. A major point would also appear to be the branch of service. These appear army aircraft. Only the Marine/Naval aviation branch designated the Falcon the Helldiver. Indeed the tradition persisted to the Helldiver of Midway fame. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok then for the airfield... but, of course, the Helldivers I was talking about were not the Curtiss SBC Helldiver or the Curtiss SB2C Helldiver (later models, here we talk about the planes used in the 1933 and 2005 Kong films). About the first photograph... what about the straight engine? was it originally a radial engine [ring-cowling equipped], later removed before the photograph was taken? Kintaro (talk) 01:43, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think the main point is that the Helldiver designation was uniquely a Naval/Marine aviation acquistion. The Falcon was army air sercice designation. Also please notice, in both films, esp the excellent 2005 version, there are alsolotely no desernable Navy markings on the aircraft. I believe that NAVY was quite distinctly part of airframe insignia. There is no evidence, based on the historically verifiable formation closest to New York in 1933 (9th Operations Group), its branch, (Army) and the markings of airframes in the 33 or 05 versions, that these were Helldivers. I would strongly argue these are in fact representative of the Falcons in reality based at Mitchel field, a relatively short flying distance from NYC. They were persuit/armed recce tasked aircraft. It would make perfect sense to use them, and not Marine/Naval divebombers that happened to be based in Hawaai at the time. Kong would have died of old age by the time they would have got there :) Cheers for a good discussion! Irondome (talk) 02:39, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a beautiful design, Hawker Demon which is a slightly later but similar concept. They were all heavy fighters. sort of biplane MRCAs really. Divebombing was the PGM it used. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 03:50, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the beer, fella ! it was pretty cool and nice. Jesus Christ turned the water into wine and could maybe even have turned the wine into beer... but I was not informed that during the 1920s and 1930s he'd turned the US Army aircraft into US Navy planes... hahahahahaha! No, seriously, they are definitely US Navy planes :) Look at their yellow wing tops, here, on these two free clips, here and here. And now, please, check this link: At that time Navy Aircraft were overall silver-doped fabric, with chrome yellow wing tops on the upper wing and aft horizontal stabilizer. While the chrome yellow was not officially ordered until May of 1925, it had been an unoffical standard that had been adopted starting in 1920 as an aid to locating aircraft that had made fored landings in water. Concerning the Hawker: a beautiful design, indeed... British!! ;) I salute you! Kintaro (talk) 08:14, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again Irondome. Look at these links, please, they are from the Internet Movie Plane Database. They contain photograms from both films, the 1933 version and the 2005 version. Following that latter, it seems the squadron, at least the one depicted in the 2005 film, was the VF-1B "Tophatters"... which used them [the "top hat" insignia] from 1930 to 1932. On that period, here, the VF-1B squadron is described as a "fighting squadron", but with two-seat planes it's more realistic to describe it as an "attack squadron" (in an air-ground attack use more than air-air attack use). I don't understand why the planes in the 1933 film have straight upper and lower wings, and why on the contrary those in the Jackson's 2005 version have swept wings in the upper (which is the exact shape of the historical Falcons and Helldivers, just check it, for example, here, here and here. In addition, in the 1933 film, the real planes, flown and shot for the film, are unequal-span biplanes, but the model battled by Kong (in the close special effects shots) is a pure biplane, with a lower wing sizing the same length as the upper wing. The more I watch the live action 1933 real planes, the more I think they could be Boeing fighters converted into two-seat attack planes. The vertical stabilizer also looks different if looking at one version or another, 1933 or 2005. Kintaro (talk) 11:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting information. I do not see how they chose the top hatters as a unit, most odd. They were no based within flying distance of NYC. Very odd. They do appear to be the Falcon "fighting" type though, not the Helldiver. None the less, NAVY is quite clearly marked on the 2005 aircraft insignia. So I accept they represent navy persuit planes. Interesting that the unit does not record what type was used in 1933, the year of the supposed events. I agree the 33 version used Boeings. I have come across that several years before and fully accept it. This has raised more questions than answers! I hope you enjoyed the beer. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 21:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely enjoyed the beer, thank you again. About the planes used in the 1933 film, in my opinion they could be anyway Curtiss planes (seems to be just a matter of the upper wing modification...). We should continue our investigations on that point... don't you think so? But back to the 2005 King Kong... I'm pretty sure now that the planes are Curtiss F8C-5/O2C Helldivers (or F8C-4, but most likely F8C-5), and so... my edit... should be restored :) (come on, dude, look at the Commons images: here, here and here. All those planes are definitely exactly the same model as the one used in Peter Jackson's King Kong). Nope? Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The only practical issue is that the Falcon article has all the Helldiver info :). I am persuaded that they are NAVY, and that they are F8C-5 variants. Leave it to me..Irondome (talk) 10:45, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done. See what you think. This whole conversation has been a pleasure. Stress-free, good humoured and very informative. I salute you User:Kintaro, a true Wikipedian. Cheers my friend! Irondome (talk) 11:06, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Irondome, for restoring my edit, and especially for your kindness. I personally continued my investigations concerning the planes used in the 1933 film. In the 2005 film all the planes used by Peter Jackson (full-scale mockups, models or CGI) were, now we do agree each other, Curtiss F8C Helldivers... but in the 1933 film two different types of planes were used, and depending on the shot you can distinguish one... or another. In the fictional story depicted by the 1933 film, Kong is supposed to battle four identical planes of the same type (downing one), but during the shooting and during the special effects creation process, it now seems obvious to me that the filmmakers used two different types of plane: the Curtiss F8C Helldiver (the only one chosen by Jackson in 2005) and the Stearman C3B (or maybe C3R). A scale model of the Curtiss Helldiver was scratch-built for the special effects sequences and several live-action scenes were shot with real-flying Stearman C3s and Curtiss F8C Helldivers. The Helldiver scale model had an insignia in the waste of its fuselage, a flying winged horse, certainly from the VP-11 squadron. I'm almost definitely convinced of all these claims and if I take the needed time I can bring links, explanations and facts on plane anatomy, clearly visible in photograms and sequences straight out of the film... Well... Salute! Kintaro (talk) 12:23, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, the Stearmans used in the 1932 shooting could have been Stearman Cloudboys instead of Stearman C3Bs or C3Rs (and in that case they could have been furnished by both the US Navy or the US Army). Cheers! Kintaro (talk) 13:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kintaro! I am going to see my girlfriend for a couple of days, but will log on on her laptop and comment further on the 33 version and its curious mix of types. I agree with your I.D of types but I will watch the original 1933 version DVD over weekend. She has it in her collection. The ideal woman :) Cheers my friend! Irondome (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The first time I watched the classical King Kong I was 6 years old (it was around 1981, on TV, in France). I was dazzled. That was more than 30 years ago and since then I have watched the film more than 10 times, maybe more than 15 times. Every time I watched the full entire movie for the movie itself, I didn't notice there were different types of plane depending on the shot. The shots are fluent enough, the types are similar and the spectator is unconsciously convinced that all the sequences are made with the same type of plane. It was only today that I noticed, watching again and again, and stopping the image in every sequence, that there were indeed two different types of plane in the film. Just one more thing: on this link you can see an original surviving miniature of a Helldiver from the team of special effects makers. Amazing piece of history. Cheers, and salute the ideal woman, she is the ideal woman indeed if she owns a DVD of the original King Kong. Kintaro (talk) 00:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

About Adminship review

Hi Irondome, I have seen you at Anna's talk page asking for your contribution reviews. But as far I know Anna, she generally doesn't review contributions for RfA candidates. In this case I can refer you to Mr. Stradivarius, another admin and an expert in contrib review. I'm sure he can help you. Cheers, Jim Carter ^(talk) 05:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon me, but what makes you think that I generally do not review contributions for RfA candidates? Many such requests are via email. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sorry Anna Frodesiak I didn't know that... O.o Jim Carter ^(talk) 09:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be sorry. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Irondome, I'm sorry for what I did yesterday. But trust me I did that assuming good faith. And I'm really sorry, I was so much panicked initially that I forgot to give you a ping. I know you are hurt; Your comments this monster originally began with a straightforward exchange between myself and User:Anna Frodesiak about the idea she had floated and asking her opinion on maybe an admin run in the next 12 months+. I didnt even get a bloody ping. at WT:MMS said that you are hurt. But trust me I was just trying to help. I don't have any bad intention. I believe, you will understand and forgive me. Many thanks. Jim Carter ^(talk) 05:00, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jim do not worry. It is sometimes hard to translate nuances intonations etc on the web. I should have added a ;) maybe. I was being only semi-serious. of course I knew, thats how I was following it. Do not be concerned Jim. You are only trying to help. just a gentle mention though. tone down your impulsive tendencies a bit. Always think for a good 10 mins on ramifications of any contemplated actions. Things sometimes get amplified on WP. DO NOT WORRY MY FRIEND. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 12:47, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ooo... Thank you for the encouraging message. BTW will you mind if I ask your real name; since calling you "Iron" or "dome" isn't something I like. :\ Jim Carter ^(talk) 15:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Simon is fine. Funny I only just noticed I had not responded. Losing it! Irondome (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

More funny, I noticed this after 6 months. :-) Jim Carter 14:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed it after 15 minutes, so there a definite improvement in performance noticable. Cheers Jim! Irondome (talk) 15:10, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RfA review and the chat-up line thing

It's probably best to post here about these. RfA review: yes, I'd be happy to, but will need a bit of time. Chat-up line thing: Maybe a good plan to avoid commenting on social networking/possibly trollish posts like that. He has a bit of a history..

All the best. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the willingness to continue the analysis Anna. On the other point, Glad you got rid of it. So many "eds" with pasts, I must be careful to discriminate. Cheers :) Irondome (talk) 23:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1: Happy and willing, and will get back to you as soon as I can on that. 2: No worries. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:17, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Books & Bytes, Issue 6

The Wikipedia Library

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Issue 6, April-May 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

New donations from Oxford University Press and Royal Society (UK)
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Antwerp X

How can this be fixed? Something should be said about the SCR-584/M-9 technology about proximity fuze technology, which were important inventions in anti-aircraft technology. DonPMitchell (talk) 02:50, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

the whole section may have to be lengthened. There is lots of dubious fat stuff in that article. we could make room for a critical section dealing with the first anti-missile defences. PF technology, late war radars and even that there was a variant of a Vickers Wellington (which was arguably the first multi-engined AWACS) to pick up VI cruise missiles coming over the North sea launched via bomber. Fighters would be vectored if feasable. But they gave warning shortly sfter launch. Also that British defence radar networks were capable of detecting V2 re-entries and roughly vectoring their impact area, but there was no time to issue alerts due to the 30 second to 1 minute maximum radar telemetry they could only get. It is a hugely rich field. I would say expand and prune other stuff with consensus. Irondome (talk) 02:59, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

An anonymous user seems to be messing with this section of the article, but I don't know what his issues are. DonPMitchell (talk) 00:27, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia Library: New Account Coordinators Needed

Hi Books & Bytes recipients: The Wikipedia Library has been expanding rapidly and we need some help! We currently have 10 signups for free account access open and several more in the works... In order to help with those signups, distribute access codes, and manage accounts we'll need 2-3 more Account Coordinators.

It takes about an hour to get up and running and then only takes a couple hours per week, flexible depending upon your schedule and routine. If you're interested in helping out, please drop a note in the next week at my talk page or shoot me an email at: jorlowitzgmail.com. Thanks and cheers, Jake Ocaasi via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WWII updated casualties #

Hello Irondome, I noticed that the issue of ethnic Polish casualties was discussed earlier on the WWII talk page... my apologies for forgetting to insert the reference source. At this point, I went ahead and added the reference published by Poland's Institute of National Remembrance, this figure is also inline with those on World War II casualties of Poland, this way we avoid the issue of contradictory statements on WP pages. --Factor01 (talk) 11:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that Factor01! Cheers Irondome (talk) 12:43, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014

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BMD-4

Could you please rate this newly made article? I appreciate it. Khazar (talk) 19:47, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will do my best AK. I am with my friend at the moment logged in to her pc. Will be home later today. I am still coming to terms with the great and senseless outrage of yesterday. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 12:47, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing ref links on Rachel Corrie

Hey Irondome, so I attempted to clean up the biased article on Rachel Corrie but I think I broke some references in the process. Can you help with that? I don't want it to get reverted. I think my edits were very fair. --monochrome_monitor 21:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC) [reply]

Hi MM. I have used my rollback tool to revert all your edits. Do NOT take it the wrong way. I think each edit (there were 10) should be examinined on a case by case basis at talk. This intensive editing may provoke a a minor messy edit war for a couple of days. We have enough going on as volunteers! I suggest you make one or two edits at a time and take them to talk. Let us adopt a gradualist approach. The links issue will be resolved in the process. Cheers :) Irondome (talk) 22:22, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you revert my edits w/t telling me? Every single one. I even fixed the references. I spent like an hour on them, addressing the criticism on the page. Why not tell me first? --monochrome_monitor 22:25, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I had no idea you were dealing with them. I thought you had given up on fixing them tonight. I assumed we would talk first, based on my rollback.Irondome (talk) 22:30, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Added to my watchlist. Irondome (talk) 22:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The rollback tools can be used only to revert vandalism.If you use it for something else its disruptive.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 04:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AGF, Shrike, AGF. Read the context before you jump in. Irondome (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I read the context the use of this tool is only for vandalism.Or did you use it by mistake?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:32, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not only for vandalism, Shrike. Quote *To revert widespread edits (by a misguided editor or malfunctioning bot) which are judged to be unhelpful to the encyclopedia, provided that an explanation is supplied in an appropriate location, such as at the relevant talk page^[1]. I believed the edits were entirely in GF but see above for my rationale. I have repeatidly made it plain to MM that I have no issue with his edits, it was merely that I thought it would cause an outbreak of edit warring. I made a judgement call. It may have been right or wrong. I explained my reasoning thoroughly above and on talk, as required by the above section in the rollback essay. Irondome (talk) 15:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ See also Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong#Rollback.

A kitten for you!

Something got you down?

I prescribe kittens!

For maximum effectiveness, apply one kitten per kilogram.

(External use only)

--monochrome_monitor 16:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly! Thanks mm :) Irondome (talk) 18:55, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure! Should I answer his last comment or just leave it? Something about my argument being invalid because there's no difference between denial and revisionism because holocaust deniers call themselves revisionists. That's just so ridiculous I don't even know how to approach it. Is there a wiki rule against insulting other editors? Probably. Does anyone even read those rules? --monochrome_monitor 01:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I stopped reading when I got to the bizarre "Scottish" reference. Just gave up. Drivel. I would just ignore it. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:43, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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IAF trainers

Hi Irondome, the trainers deal no longer belongs to 'Future' section. Now it is in 'Current' section. Flayer (talk) 20:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Duhhhh. Trout at will! Irondome (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Email

I emailed you. Just wanted your advice considering you offered your tutelage. :) --monochrome_monitor 19:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC) [reply]

Hi there. I have literally just got back after 9 days away and off-line. Let me get up to speed. Just checking my mails now. Irondome (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Books and Bytes - Issue 7

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 7, June-July 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

Seven new donations, two expanded partnerships
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requesting help

Hello! My apologies if I'm doing this wrong, but I saw your name on a list of editors offering help. Please let me know if I should ask elsewhere.

I have recently been doing a lot of basic proofreading edits to various articles here. These are all minor edits and I assume they have mostly gone unnoticed. This is largely because, although I know the basics of how Wikipedia works, I don't know a lot of the fine points, especially how to handle edit conflicts.

I just finished a huge edit of an error-riddled school page, West Orange High School (Winter Garden, Florida). This was immediately reverted, and the person who did so also added a few odd, out-of-context words to the article like "playful," "palace," and "test edit," which isn't vandalism but is certainly nonsense.

I would consider contacting this user directly, but he also vandalized my personal page here (changing "don't hate me" to "hate me").

So I'm not at all sure what to do. What is the procedure here? I'd love to see my edit, which was done in good faith and improved the piece, reinstated. However, I am not super invested in the topic, and my main concern is the personal attack and potential future run-ins with this person. Can you advise? Thank you! Jessicapierce (talk) 21:56, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted the edit, which appears odd, and reqested the concerned editor to discuss the edit on article talk page. You are quite at liberty to revert edits providing you do not break any existing or special requirements which are usually admin set. The edits and the personal attacks are seperate issues. I would get admin support for the latter if it persists. I will not be around for perhaps 48 hrs, so I suggest getting admin eyes in on this. User Kudpung and user Anafrodisiak are both excellent admins. Kudpung especially specilises in educational establishment-related articles. Keep an eye on the article for reverts. If you were "visiting" the article, and have no special interest there, may be an idea not to get too embroiled. Irondome (talk) 22:34, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for your quick reply, and the reversion! Looks like that account has been blocked, so there shouldn't be any more trouble, though I will keep an eye on that article. I've also been reading more about how to deal with vandalism and editing issues in the future. I had read a little about this when I first started using Wikipedia, but the amount of documentation is sort of daunting, and it's nice to be able to ask more experienced people for guidance directly. Thank you for that - I really appreciate it! Jessicapierce (talk) 00:37, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
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Book reviews: Wrap-up of some recent external reviews
Interview: World War I editors
Op-ed: TomStar81 on the outbreak of World War I

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Request for help

Hello, Simon.

Thank you for volunteering on the Editor Assistance page to help those of us who run into challenges while editing.

I have several citation issues that need to be sorted for the biography of Hezekiah Leonard Clark, Jr.. First, the editor who created that article has persevered heroically through the AfC process nine times, with eight different reviewers since May 2013 (see User talk:Elaine58). I completely respect her dedication to gaining AfC approval and also to supplying requested citations. The problem is probable original research citations for all but the information about Mr. Clark's marksmanship, and other citations that do not verify the facts asserted about Mr. Clark, as they are generic home pages of various organizations rather than sources that provide any information about Mr. Clark. I have engaged Elaine 58 on the article talk page, and have not deleted any of the questionable material, but would appreciate your take on article content related to citations provided.

A second more technical issue surfaced yesterday as I changed the format of citations to the US Army newspaper, The Bayonet. The archived newspapers are cataloged by entire years, provided as very large pdfs (~1000 pages) that download slowly or not at all. There are 16 references to three of those very large files, for years 1969, 1970, and 1971. Originally Elaine58 had provided bare html links to the index page for the newspaper, and I eventually revised the links to pdfs for each article. However, when I tested the links the following day, I kept getting error messages, so I replaced them with the index page again. Then I discovered the problem was lengthy pdf download time (up to 2 hrs!), which possibly is related to the volume of traffic on my ISP. So I changed the citations once again, this last time linking urls of the three years to each article with a comment in brackets that the large file may be slow to download. Not ideal, but my thought was that anyone wanting to verify the source would be alerted to the download time, and also might realize only 3 files need to be downloaded rather than 16. Because I use the Visual Editor, apparently my solution triggered nowiki tags, which apparently signals I have used the Visual Editor infobox template inappropriately? I had used brackets around the comments on file download time, which I last night changed to parens. Should the nowiki insertions be removed, too?

T:S I thought of a way to direct readers to a listing of the three large files – a bit clumsy, but better than my earlier effort. I'd still like to know if there is a cleaner way to present newspaper citations under these circumstances, if you have time to review it.

Thanks for considering my request for assistance. --Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 19:39, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. Sorry for the delay in answering, been away with my partner for a few days and did not check in. I find periods of complete offline helps my mental balance. Let me take a look at your issues in the next 24 hours or so. The first I think I can contribute to, however the second may be a bit out of my reach in technical knowledge. However I will endevour to put you in touch with more technically savvy colleagues who may be able to help. Please give me at least 24 hrs, due to real life inbox being rather full at mo. Hope this somewhat sparse response helps. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 01:08, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response...I understand the need for downtime, and taking care of sanity. Hope you are feeling rested and refreshed. Of the two issues, the first is the more difficult, and I may have erred in trying to honor the feelings of the creating editor. I believe this is the only article she's editing, and it seems to be a labor of love--since she has access to the subject's personal papers and probably a scrapbook of clippings, I'm thinking she and the subject are quite likely related. Nevertheless, many of the citations are irrelevant to verifying the facts. I did create a workaround for the more technical citation problem, so that's less important, but I'd still like to know how to properly resolve it. I'm very glad for any help you might offer. — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 05:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Books and Bytes - Issue 8

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 8, August-September2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

TWL now a Wikimedia Foundation program, moves on from grant status
Four new donations, including large DeGruyter parntership, pilot with Elsevier
New TWL coordinators, Wikimania news, new library platform discussions, Wiki Loves Libraries update, and more
Spotlight: "Traveling Through History" - an editor talks about his experiences with a TWL newspaper archive, Newspapers.com

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC) [reply]

The Signpost: 08 October 2014

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Barak 8

Barak 8 is comparable to the American RIM-162 ESSM, not the European Aster. However, it is wrong to weasel in other missile types to the see also section in effort to misguide the reader into thinking the RIM-174 Standard ERAM or Barak 8 are comparable to the Aster. Specification wise, the RIM-174 is distinctively superior to the Aster. 109.78.64.24 (talk) 12:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the sources for Barak 8 (missile), you will note that "Barak gets bigger and better" specifically mentions its comparability to at least the Aster 15. Moreover the system is in a relatively early stage of development and has a developing ABM capability. Therefore I have a source which ties it in. I am not responsible for adding the RIM-174 to "see also", so I suggest you take that up with the responsible editor. I am concerned by your tone. "weasel" and an accusation that I am "misguiding" I find offensive. You either AGF or not here. I assume you are an experienced editor hiding behind an IP address, for whatever reasons. I shall be reverting and re-adding it in my own time, and shall be taking it to the relevant talk page to seek general consensus. If you revert me again before a due discussion you shall be edit warring, which I am sure is not your intention... Irondome (talk) 14:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Your Military History Newsletter

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No response

Irondome, could you take a look at this. I thought I was removing some rather thin argument, and in so doing editing to improve the article, however I find myself reversed and I cannot even get a response on the talk page. Maybe I'm just off base. Appreciate it. Gunbirddriver (talk) 01:23, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi GBD, good to hear from you. Just checking talk background. It's 1.30 am in London so may be crashing soon, but I'm certainly in on it. Cheers Irondome (talk) 01:31, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Update. Hi User:Gunbirddriver. Been proposing a modification of the form of words used, as from quotes supplied from Beevor by PBS, it could be supported that propaganda and revenge were only partial reasons for the disorder. Vodka and indiscipline seemed to have played a major role too, which the quotes i've picked up on seem to support. Not sensing any strong opp from PBS. What do you think? I think a word from you there may be useful in moving this along. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, finally there is a response, and after six weeks it is high time. Thank you for helping to get a discussion going so we can at least see what the reasoning is behind the editing. Now PBS wrote a great deal, and it will take a little time for me to formulate a response, but I will do so shortly. Thanks again. Gunbirddriver (talk) 06:14, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sun baking

Given the fierceness of the Australian sun during the warmer months, we don't 'bath' in it ;) Nick-D (talk) 05:05, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Message received and clearly understood :) Irondome (talk) 05:13, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tiger I

Undergoing maintenance I see, looking good. GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's appreciated Graeme. Will continue on, pruning, clarifying and attempting to shorten some of the more rambling sections. Obviously I will respect existing sources and underlying article structure. That German penetration test thingy primary source worries me a bit. Working around it. It seems to be propping up much of that section. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 19:12, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Nazi Germany's Eastern Front allies
Op-ed: TomStar81 on the origins and legacy of trench warfare
Timeline: This month in World War I

Benjamin Netanyahu

Thanks for the self-revert. I was scratching my head trying to figure out my "POV". --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:27, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No worries Neil. I'm just knackered. Beer and bed ;) Cheers! Irondome (talk) 02:29, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for your efforts there!! LadyofShalott 05:28, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, I should be thanking both of you. Repellent. Irondome (talk) 05:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

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Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open!

Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators, TomStar81

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Now Available (December 2014)

Hello Wikimedians!

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for, free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for:

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Merry Merry

To you and yours

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2014 (UTC) [reply]

The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book reviews: Hawkeye7 on armoured reconnaissance and German scientists, Nick-D on time travelling historians
Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the World War I Christmas truce
Timeline: This month in World War I

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From the editor: Looking for new editors-in-chief

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WikiProject report: Microsoft does The Signpost

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SPYDER

How well are you with evaluating articles? The reason I ask is because I soon want to nominate this article as a good article. I'm hoping to improve the description and the lead to do so. Khazar (talk) 02:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's good it's been getting recent attention. You did a good edit just then. Yeah I would be glad to help out, helping get it to GA status. User:Flayer may be worth pinging, as I suspect F has evaluated GA's. So far I've only cooperated in getting a couple up there I think. Glad to help general tuning. Cheers Irondome (talk) 02:09, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pinged NickD as well. He can certainly evaluate. Irondome (talk) 03:01, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014

slipped quietly away, so just a quiet ‘’all the best’’ to you for 2015 and I hope you’ll continue to be around on Wikipedia for a long time to come.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:49, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've nowhere else to go C ;) Seriously, I will just continue to learn the ropes, and help out where I can. Hope to be around for many moons yet, in all senses. Thanks Irondome (talk) 15:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year!

Dear Simon Adler,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--FWiW Bzuk (talk)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

Talkback

Hello, Simon Adler. You have new messages at Malik Shabazz's talk page.
Message added 01:23, 2 January 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

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Books and Bytes - Issue 9

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 9, November-December 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

New donations, including real-paper-and-everything books, e-books, science journal databases, and more
New TWL coordinators, conference news, a new open-access journal database, summary of library-related WMF grants, and more
Spotlight: "Global Impact: The Wikipedia Library and Persian Wikipedia" - a Persian Wikipedia editor talks about their experiences with database access in Iran, writing on the Persian project and the JSTOR partnership

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC) [reply]

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Valley of Tears

Hi Irondome. Appreciate the feedback, thanks! I almost started amending YOUR profile - far too modest! Back to the Valley: the intro part still is a mess, but I cannot deal with it now. If you, old Wikinaut, know whom to ask, you'll be forever thanked for it. Right now it has half of the entire Golan theatre there. Some of the superfluous stuff seems to be missing on the Yom Kippur War page, so deleting it would be a waste, needs to be grafted over. Takes too much time for me... I need good overviews for my work & study, I guess many people use Wik. the same way, endless sausages of facts without headings, with repetitions etc. are utterly USELESS, I hardly ever bother reading any further. Just letting stem off. Havea great year! Arminden (talk) 13:47, 11 January 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]

Hi brother, I appreciate the words. You seem to be doing ok here yourself :) I hope you stick around for a long time. The valley is a small book at the mo. A great read but just way too long. It has the potential to be a great article which may even meet good article status one day. But it needs work as you so rightly say. I'm happy to help out if you wish to chip at it. There is no time limit, no deadline. It needs to be radically trimmed, and stuff does need to be transferred to the YKW article. But it has potential. Agree with your analysis totally. Happy to co-operate as far as real-life stuff gives me time. Peace, and I will catch up with you soon! Regards from Irondome (talk) 19:17, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. Since you're mentioning real-life stuff, it's a bit awkward to bother you with this. IF you can fit it in, here's smth. you can help out with. My Wiki-skills are clearly not sufficient. I've done some work on Mikhail Gurevich (aircraft designer), but somehow three elements which do show in "Edit" mode, very much refuse to do so in "Read" mode: "See also", the actual list of awards, and the "References" heading. Any advice? Ignore this if time is tight, and THANKS anyway! Arminden (talk) 19:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]

Hi bro apologise for tardiness in getting back. Had a quick look at article. A great designer. Just checking. Do you mean you can't get it to edit in mentioned areas? Just clarifying. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 23:08, 13 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Panther tank

Hello,

I have seen that Denniss have undone my recent edit. Don't know why there have to be a knife fight for such an unnecessarily revert, may you can jump over there and help me? I already tried to explain him why his edit was nonsense, please consider talk page. Many thanks, regards 79.141.163.7 (talk) 11:45, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look. We should have no trouble, have you spoken to Denniss? Irondome (talk) 13:47, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I left him a message on his talk page Regards 79.141.163.7 (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fry Sauce in the U.K.

I'm suprised that you haven't come across it yet. I live in Hastings, and have found a Heinz version that is sold cross the board, and supermarkets such as Tesco, Asda, Morrisons, and Sainsburys have their own versions as well. I thought this might have become the 'norm' across the UK, but I stand corrected. 86.180.17.120 (talk) 23:18, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well if you can grab a source from any of the sites you mention mentioning the item, i'd be totally happy with that. I've seriously not seen it, and I hang around Pound shops a lot too :). Maybe i'm just missing it. I have to make my own at mo, 2 parts mayo to 1 part heinz ketchup. Be nice to have a supply! Need to go up shops tmrw so will ask around. Maybe its in the big outlets. Im in Hammersmith/Fulham so its all Tesco express, and small sainsburys branches. Irondome (talk) 23:22, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 14 January 2015

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#123

Could you do the same thiing for support #123 here? --Tito☸Dutta 22:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sees User:Risker got there first! Bit concerned about the same !voter on Mels RfA if he/she is in fact blocked, as R says. Cheers Irondome (talk) 22:13, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you are right. --Tito☸Dutta 22:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 21 January 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book reviews: Jonas Vinther on Hitler and Cliftonian on the Rhodesia Regiment
Interview: 2014 Military History Newcomer Award nominees
Review essay: Nick-D on the Australian War Memorial
Op-ed: TomStar81 on the birth of strategic bombing
Timeline: This month in World War I

The Signpost: 28 January 2015

From the editor: An editorial board that includes you

In focus: Thirteen editors sanctioned in mammoth GamerGate arbitration case

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Featured content: Like Jack Kerouac's On The Road, this week's issue was written on amphetamines

Request for Comment

Hello Irondome,

I want draw your attention in the recent revert from User:AABBCC112233aa which took place on the article of T-34, 1. However, I started the talk to request a speed removal and rephasing of that sweeping and misleading description. What you think of my suppositions regarding the rules and more neutral description? Thank you for your consideration. Regards Bouquey (talk) 19:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Replied to Bouquey on relevant talk page Irondome (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 04 February 2015

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Foreign policy of Narendra Modi

Thanks Irondome for patrolling my article. Till today the content of the newly created Middle Eastern foreign policy of the Narendra Modi was already there in a compact article called Asian foreign policy of Narendra Modi government which I created few months back. I failed to understand your point that you recommend it for deletion. If you please tell me why it is not suitable for Wikipedia to have those article but I am ready to re-approach my work as per the standards. I will be more than happy to work with you maintaining wikipedia standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M.soumen (talk • contribs) 21:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello M.soumen. I was unaware of your companion article. My concern is that the F/P policy of just one administration (and one so relatively new) should have specicific notability above all the other administrations that India has had since 1947. This puzzles me, and was my main "concern". I do notice an overarching article Foreign policy of Narendra Modi. I just worry that there may be too many regional articles regarding Mr Modi's F/P. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your approach. However the new article lacks the polish of the previous Asian F/R article. It seems a little rushed by comparison. Maybe you could work on it a little more, or maybe hold off till there is more material? You are welcome to resubmit it, if I have erred in any way, I obviously take full responsibility. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 21:14, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Simon Adler. You have new messages at Kudpung's talk page.
Message added 12:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

The Signpost: 11 February 2015

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M15 Halftrack page edits

Dear User Irondome: Good eyes. Good edits. Good edit summaries. Nice sharing the sandbox with you at the M15 Halftrack page. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi User:Wikiuser100 pleasure to collaborate with someone who knows their subjects! Ditto, your good eyes, good edits and in saying what you are attempting clearly. See you around I hope. Irondome (talk) 19:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Likewise!

Hey, while you are here and appear knowledgeable of so many things, do you know how to send a simple automated "You're welcome" when somebody hits the "Thank" button next to an edit on a History page? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm none too bright on the things that matter mostly :) There isnt one, but it would be a good idea! I think we're lucky they installed the thanks feature. Quite a wise thing, the way the atmosphere can get on here, esp lately. They may install a "screw you moron" feature to balance the good vibes it creates :/ Cheers WU100! Irondome (talk) 19:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can see the emoticons flying now! Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. Never visit jimbos talk page or anything to do with gamergate or the admin boards unless you have business there. Helps the stress levels. I stick to machines. You know where you are with half tracks, planes and various heavy metal. You know where you are with an M60 or a Merk. Least you can switch the engine off! Irondome (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Your Military History Newsletter

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AN notice

This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Nothing wrong per se, just that I mentioned you so I need to let you know. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 01:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No worries and thanks for the heads up User:FreeRangeFrog. I already noticed it, and I think your action is in the finest traditions of a good mop. However, I have strong reservations about the said user's temperament. That was a savage and totally unwarranted attack on you, the like of which I have not seen in nearly 4 years as a contributor. I supported you, and the user spewed their bile onto me. Frankly, I think this user is not temperamentally suited to be a member of the community. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 02:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Editor Help

Hello Irondome!

I am asking if you can please have a look at - User:DmitryPopovRU/sandbox and let me know if this is notable?I think this article is worded incorrectly as the sources and references are clearly notable. Please have a look!

Thank You! --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 09:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Of course! Glad to help. Be over soon. Regards from Irondome (talk) 15:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:DmitryPopovRU Hi there! That looks good for launch. Its well structured and richly sourced. You may hit rough waters with WP:NOTABLE and the fact that you did it yourself. I'm no expert on WP:BLP articles and the complex rules around it, but I say go for it. A few minor typos. The book should help in notability and TV work in NZ adds to professional notability. Hope this helps. Good luck! Irondome (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Irondome ! Thanks heaps for your comments. The page has been nominated twice for deletion, though the nominations being up for so long! I just think that it is written incorrectly. I need help from an editor who has experience in the WP:BLP if you can suggest anyone please let me know :) Your help is much appreciated too! Thank You! --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 17:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! Will try to think of someone who is good at this kind of thing. Will update here when I locate someone suitable. Regards! Irondome (talk) 18:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. An update. submit your article to WP:AFC. Basically it means a third party will review, probably rewrite and submit it on your behalf. It then avoids any WP:COI stuff. I think this is the best route to go down. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 22:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! Thanks heaps for your help :) I will go through this process. I will however look if someone can help reword and work on the article before submission. I will also try to find a few more sources. Thanks again. --DmitryPopovRU (talk) 09:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Re: T-34

Cheers mate. I guess I'm here to click that "You're welcome" button that Wikiuser100 spoke about a week ago. The T-34 article is one of my many long term projects. Years ago it was a Featured Article and somehow lost that status. I've been trying to get it back so you'll see my name splattered all over the edit history. The lede looks good. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 15:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No worries mate and cheers for the you're welcome :). I'm all over the place too especially on heavy metal, so will be gnoming there too, so will be around. Odd thing about the T-34 is it seems to attract nutters and POV pushers of all stripes. Maybe that is a recentish thing, but I have noticed it. Maybe it's me seeing ghosts. I went through my copy of Panzer leader yesterday, and couldnt find the deadly thing. I don't have a copy of Achtung, so I couldnt check. Also did a long search on Google books, widen search, just came up with blog threads. In any event the new quotes say "deadly" to anyone with some insight. I used the best source from a selection for the Kleist quote, and was quite chuffed to have dug out that Ohio Uni paper. You get bored with Zaloga after a while! I think the quotes cover all the bases in the lede now. Appreciate the feedback. Be seeing you! Irondome (talk) 16:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, guys. My Notifications just pinged me that I was mentioned here (I now see merely incidentally). Glad to know all is well with everyone.

One thing, though: what do you two make of these Russian language footnotes added today at the T-34 page [1]? Isn't it proper form they be translated (retaining the Russian original or not)? Otherwise non-Russian speakers (This is an English version of Wikipedia.) have no idea of what the cite says or if it accurately represents what is being claimed. No? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear from you User:Wikiuser100. This issue has come up before, and I think there is guidance out there somewhere, but I have no idea how to locate it. You know what WP guidance is like :/. It may have a thread on RS noticeboard so it may be worth while doing a subject search there. I agree it can be frustrating, although i'm assuming it will let you run it through google translate or the like? Trouble is you end up with a mangled version sometimes which may lose the nuances. I've not checked todays edits on the 34, so will have a wander over. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 16:27, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Likewise. WP Guidance...? Erk! Just searching for anything in the MOS is enough to need a box of those kittens somebody gave you, or very strong drink. I have better luck going out to Google and searching text strings there to find what I'm after buried back in the MOS here.

Honestly, I don't see pure foreign language footnotes as cricket. Let's play devil's advocate: Start with an entirely English article, then make all the footnotes in Russian, Chinese, and Hindustanni. Where does that leave the English speaking reader? As I understand it, you can link to foreign language webpages (including foreign Wikipedias), and insert foreign language passages verbatim when the English version is already provided (in the body, or footnote, for those fluent to assess veracity), but flat-out all-foreign language/no English entries, either in the body or references, are prohibited on the above grounds.

It appears the poster is bilingual. Can they be appealed to provide a translation in their footnote? I'm just a drive-by here (and at T-34) and know I don't want to get into an edit war (as there's already been a revert and a restoration). But it's definitely heading things in the wrong direction at a key article two very excellent military contributors are pledged to shaping back up. Gentlemen? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Has there been skirmishing over the new material today? Jeez. Better have a look. I broadly agree with your viewpoint. Be ggod to get the guidance on this as a deterrent actually. Would be good for future issues if stuff blows up. Will make strong tea first. Cheers as always Irondome (talk) 16:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds like a better idea than simply blanking the page with "I ❤ the T-34" and letting the fur fly. But that's always an option if the tea doesn't prove strong enough. Right, then. Shoulders back. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 17:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I thought Wikipedia is all about WP:RS? What's wrong with primary sources? I also linked a translated english version of it, next to the original report. - Just because the PaK 36 hit in one instance the T-34 23 times without blowing it up, doesn't validate the natural conclusion that the gun was completely crap. That's cherry picking at best! Does the cite mentioning the range? or circumstance? was the tank angling? heightened? So many unknown factors which can misguide any resonable conclusion. Yes, the german observered that both guns were ineffective, or would you call 300-400m for a step back effective? Of course not, so the german high command with their observations! Imagine a tank battalion of T-34 is advancing whit 10m/s and breakthrough your lines within minutes and you simply don't know why your shot don't harm them. Well, If you don't know the effective range, your gun is simply ineffective when starting firing at 1000m. As easy as that! And for the revert and my restoration, that was accidentally happend to Hz.tiang.. Ciao !Homenagen (talk) 18:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thats fine. I liked your cleanup of the lede too. No worries. But there can be issues with untranslated sources that some users refuse to help translate. You just get that silence thing, except for reversions. I hate non communicating eds who just ignore pleas for dialogue. Anyway, good to hear from you. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The PaK 37mm was pretty bad dealing with the KV-1 though. Ive got a photo in Zaloga's Handbook of the Red Army of a KV that is covered in 37 hits. I got to 24 before I stopped counting. It was finally killed with an 88. There was that hollow charge round that fitted over the barrel with a sleeve, but that meant the loader having to leave the 37's gunshield. Pretty dangerous work :/. Did crews call it the doorknocker sometimes? My kind of humour. Regards Irondome (talk) 18:28, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From which cleanup your are speaking? I did only these two changes to the lede 1 and 2, after that I crated this User. My first possession was previously to change something on the Tiger I's page, which why I crosschecked it. Anyhow, you can find some more hints from the given reports on the axis history forum, from Staff Member "Art". Homenagen (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, sorry, that wasn't you. That was a helpful IP. Thanks for the link! Cheer

[outdent] hello again ... here's my two cents. I think a few brief quotations and the like in Russian/German adds to authenticity. However translations should be provided. This is the English Wikipedia, not a "whatever language you happen to use" Wikipedia. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 01:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 25 February 2015

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LLAP

Since you liked my edit, may I point to this edit request ? Opinions are needed. Cheers, Mlpearc (open channel) (\\//) 22:41, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Euro RfA

Remember, the RfA was over an hour ago, it's just that no one has closed it yet, so I think we might should refrain from adding new comments. I'm not mad or anything, just wanted you to take note. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 02:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It has not been closed yet so new comments are permissible. Please do not badger me on my own talk page on a massive new issue. Obviously delayed closure is due to closure doubts. If you cannot grasp the issues raised by the new points made then then I strongly suggest you remove the " I am not an admin but would like to be someday" userbox as I doubt your competency to comment. Regards Irondome (talk) 02:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I try to be polite, and this is what I get. I just didn't think it was normal to add new comments after the full seven weeks, because I think one week is enough torture. And I think what you've brought up is very valid, I grasp it. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 03:01, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, accepted. However we have a glaring new issue here which cannot be airbrushed out. The RfA is still open. Comments are permissible I believe, until official closure. I retract my competency statement, however I fear you are being too kind here. The candidate, a good soul I do not doubt, would be massacred in the jungle that is WP. Strongly advise waiting 6 months for a new RfA when I am sure the candidate would gain experience. I am just trying to be helpful here. We must face facts Amaryllis. At this point this colleague is not ready for the stern trials of the bit. Kind regards Irondome (talk) 03:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Books and Bytes - Issue 10

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 10, January-February 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

New donations - ProjectMUSE, Dynamed, Royal Pharmaceutical Society, and Women Writers Online
New TWL coordinator, conference news, and a new guide and template for archivists
TWL moves into the new Community Engagement department at the WMF, quarterly review

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC) [reply]

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Technology report: Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News

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Op-ed: Why the Core Contest matters

Variants

Partly per your comments about the removal of the subsection, I have added a subsection about the MP 41 and sourced it. Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 15:52, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jonas. Regards Simon, or Irondome (talk) 22:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 18 March 2015

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What a wonderful connection!

Re Mitchell edit, London, cockney and your revealed generic ID, ID. Have you ever read The Doctor is Sick? There's a wonderful portrait of two Stone brothers from that background, actually in literary terms, though modeled on real life Jewish cockneys, they are divided and damascened with evocative echoes of various aspects of Leopold Bloom in Ulysses. Cheers, ID -Nishidani (talk) 11:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome Nish! I must get my eyes and hands on it. I assume the Stones' form part of the coterie of "friends" described? With a subtle fusion of the great anti-hero and punch bag of events and consequences, the great or humbled Bloom? That I must read! My heritage is interesting N, with many unexplored paths. I must do some research when I have the time and the emotional peace. Yours with bells on. Simon, or at other times, Irondome (talk) 20:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've always been fascinated by dialects, and that includes those that become fully fledged languages (Yiddish), if only because dialects tend to conserve all manner of witticisms, angles, memories, hidden histories cultural tics, that the progressive metropolitan world hastily raises/razes as it pulls the hoi polloi up by their bootstrings (usually latched to their necks! and converts them to thinking in a homogenized manner). I've always thought Sam Weller, one of the most lovable Dickensian characters, was a Jewish cockney, and the prejudice or perception was endorsed when reading Burgess's portrait of the brothers, though I can't prove it. I note when they are used in books (a tricky thing to pull off for the outsider: translations of Dante, except for one I know of, Ciaran Carson's, ignore the fact that the Tuscan mixed more than 10 dialects into the weave of his 'italian' ).

I was prepossessed by Joyce as a kid. My father, overhearing me complain to a schoolmate that Ulysses was banned in bookshops and we couldn't get it from libraries, quietly went round and bought me an (illicit) copy somewhere and gave it to me for my 17th birthday. Once I read it, I got over the adolescent self-indulgence of identifying with Stephen Dedalus, and admired Bloom (in a sense my father played Bloom and I Dedalus in this exchange). Still think him one of the greatest fictional beings, admirable from top to bottom. What a mensch should be.

Look, one doesn't wait around for such things like family history. Key things die off every year, with kith and kin, far and near, forgetting or, because, as one learns at bereavements, one just didn't ask the obvious questions in time. So don't delay. Make phone-calls, write letters, get it all down. You find out odd things that suddenly illuminate your own immediate identity by the shadow of antecedents. I could never understand my prim mother's dressing up, on rare occasions, as a 'pro' and singing "What Percy Picked Up in the Park" as she flashed a varicose leg and a louche wink, until long after her death, when her sister described in detail their aunt, a spinster with a very wry sense of mischief, who loved dropping her austere mask and shocking the well-bred with some outrageous quip or behaviour. Cheers Nishidani (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please hold those wonderful and useful thoughts Nish. I have much to tell you. I have just been dragged through a completely pointless but draining little drama at the 3RR board. The rather vindictive IP has been seen off by a wise admin, aided by the reality of the case; but I find these experiences always depressing. I fear I would not be as informing or entertaining tonight. I shall amuse you tomorrow. I find your strong encouragement to investigate my history bittersweet, as I lost my dear mother 2 years ago last week. Oh how I wish she would have written more about these subjects! Luckily she gave me a rich oral history of the family, and I have considerable documentation and photographs. I also have an excellent memory, so I have a base for further investigations. Stay tuned N. Fond regards from Simon, occasionally resorting to the moniker Irondome (talk) 22:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't probing, and sharing intimate memories stuff over this internet racket, in both senses of the term, is a tad parlous, not so much for outing (who gives a flying fuck really) but because a certain reserve keeps the heirlooms of memory fresh for the real occasions of telling, which, in my book, are best if face to face. The Injuns of the Wild West got it right: a public image or presence pilfers the soul.

Very sorry to hear of your bereavement (my mother died on my birthday as I expected a telephone call to the kibbutz for the usual congrats. When I wept, at midnight, after the call came through, a Druze guard, hearing the sobs, came up with his gun at the ready. I had to struggle in a mixture of simple Arabic and Hebrew to get over to him why I was out, alone, in a dangerous area, in such a state. He thought a few seconds, then suddenly clicked his military boots, snapped his rifle to his arm, in a salute, and stood silently for 5 minutes, and then, patting my shoulder, quietly moved off, with a swift military veer backwards. It is remains one of my most moving memories of intercultural empathy despite a near zero communicative capacity. As the Japanese say: 死んで知る親の恩:'We understand a parent's benevolence only after they have died.' Best. Nishidani (talk) 16:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good to meet up, and I don't consider that probing. I like to communicate with good souls. What little else do with have? I found your recollection of that midnight immensely powerful and evocative. I could smell the night air, the little night sounds (strange how at such times we concentrate on trivial things. A few minutes after she died I remember watching little motes of dust caught in a fleeting shaft of light, and feeling oddly ashamed. I was waiting for profound thoughts, but there were none) and the presence of the guard. Another mensch. How many there are out there! You bring incidents wonderfully to life Nish. I very much appreciate your visits. Yours as ever, S. Irondome (talk) 17:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost – Volume 11, Issue 12 – 25 March 2015

News and notes: Wikimedia Foundation adopts open-access research policy

Op-ed: How my father's railroad image collection now benefits the world: the value of digitization

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The Bugle: Issue CVIII, March 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book review: Recent external reviews
Review essay: Nick-D on the Australian Fleet Air Arm Museum
Op-ed: TomStar81 on submarine warfare in World War I
Timeline: This month in World War I

Meh

[2] ―Mandruss ☎ 04:23, 29 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost, 1 April 2015

In focus: WMF's latest strategy document shows successes, vagueness, and the need for better data

In the media: Wiki-PR duo bulldoze a piñata store; Wifione arbitration case; French parliamentary plagiarism

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The Signpost: 01 April 2015

In focus: WMF's latest strategy document shows successes, vagueness, and the need for better data

In the media: Wiki-PR duo bulldoze a piñata store; Wifione arbitration case; French parliamentary plagiarism

Featured content: Stop Press. Marie Celeste Mystery Solved. Crew Found Hiding In Wardrobe.

Traffic report: All over the place

News and notes: New edits-by-mail option will "revolutionize" Wikipedia and its editor base

Special report: Pictures of the Year 2015

Hello

Please reply: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AJanuary_2015_Mazraat_Amal_incident&diff=654857125&oldid=654535110 --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 01:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 08 April 2015

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A new reference tool

Hello Books & Bytes subscribers. There is a new Visual Editor reference feature in development called Citoid. It is designed to "auto-fill" references using a URL or DOI. We would really appreciate you testing whether TWL partners' references work in Citoid. Sharing your results will help the developers fix bugs and improve the system. If you have a few minutes, please visit the testing page for simple instructions on how to try this new tool. Regards, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:48, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 15 April 2015

News and notes: Erik Möller leaving Foundation; annual plan grants under community review

In the media: Saving Wikipedia; Internet regulation; Thoreau quote hoax

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Traffic report: Furious domination

Featured content: Au-delà de les Alpes, le chien lit de Sainte Bernard. Sous les pavés, les trimes d'argent! Mes enfants, suivez-moi!

About "Big Four" in article Declaration by United Nations

Can you add some reliable source for "Big Four" in article Declaration by United Nations? It has been tagged as citation needed. If no source cited in this claims, it may be deleted. I guess the source can be from Four Policemen,Moscow Declaration,Potsdam Declaration or Dumbarton Oaks Conference. However, all of these are from wikipedia which cannot be the source for wiki. Hence, I don't know the source for "Big Four". Can you find some sources for this?

Sorted. I found rather a good reference, explicitly covering China and the contemporary concept of the big four or the "worlds four policemen" as FDR put it. Irondome (talk) 22:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 22 April 2015

Special report: Sony emails reveal corporate practices and undisclosed advocacy editing

In the media: UK political editing; hoaxes; net neutrality

News and notes: Call for candidates as the movement approaches the Wikimedia Board elections

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Thank you for thoughts on the article talk

Thank you for reflecting the Gerechtigkeitsspirale!

Did you know ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"?

The poem ends with "Praise the right thing".

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And thank you for the thoughtful and informative note Gerda. Much appreciated as always. kind regards Simon, or, Irondome (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

MOS:FLAG

Can you stop removing flag icons from military infoboxes? They are widely used and covered by the exceptions in the policy you're linking to. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many.

Flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. Flag icons are visually distracting in infoboxes and lead to unnecessary disputes when over-used. Examples of acceptable exceptions include military conflict infobox templates and infoboxes that include international competitions, such as FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games. The guidelines for a number of common infoboxes (e.g. Template:Infobox company, Template:Infobox film, Template:Infobox person, Template:Infobox football biography, Template:Infobox Weapon) have long explicitly deprecated the use of flag icons.

The use of ship registry flags and International Code of Signals flags in infoboxes of ship articles is appropriate.

Do not emphasize nationality without good reason[edit] Wikipedia is not a place for nationalistic pride. Flags are visually striking, and placing a national flag next to something can make its nationality or location seem to be of greater significance than other things. For example, with an English flag next to him, Paul McCartney looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles"; without the flag next to him, he looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles". Emphasizing the importance of a person's citizenship or nationality above their other qualities risks violating Wikipedia's "Neutral point of view" policy.

See the above examples from WP:MOSFLAG. There is no good reason to have flags in infoboxes when simple worded links will do. I am aware of naval registry, and some other narrow definitions where they may be acceptable, such as a military campaign or battle, but a field gun? Nope.

So the answer is no, basically. Regards Irondome (talk) 20:28, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I don't need to be spoken to like a child. I think it's pretty clear that we've both read the policy and interpret it differently. Guns, which are used in military conflicts, fall under that provision IMHO. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 16:39, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well please can you clarify? Now I know the good work you have done here Ed, I am proving to be quite useful around the place too, although I am still rope learning compared to your time served. We have interacted well in the past IIRC, so I really just do not get this difference of interpretation. Irondome (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, I'm not denigrating you, and years of service (volunteering? I've never found a good way to express that) don't matter to me. My interpretation of the "military conflict" provision is that it can apply to the weapons used as well. Many are used by multiple nations, and flags are an easy 'at a glace' way to distinguish them. 06:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book reviews: Nick-D looks at the landing at Anzac Cove
Op-ed: TomStar81 on the debut of poison gas in World War I
Timeline: This month in World War I

Welcome to Operation Bora!

G'day Irondome, welcome to Operation Bora! Your involvement will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 03:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for dropping by Peacemaker67, always good to hear from you. Looks a good project, full of good articles and content. I have knowledge of some of the subjects, enough to edit competently. Only issue is non-existent relevant language skills, but I don't think that will be an issue if I use translated sources wisely and under advisement. Will run by any ambitious edits with you first, especially on the political side. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 19:37, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Feynman

Hey, can you back me up on Feynman being put back into the category "Jewish physicists"? It seems so obvious to me but people are edit warring me on it. You don't have to be a practicing Jew to be Jewish. I'm having a rather irritating argument of similar nature on the article Germans as well, with people calling me a "Jewish nationalist" for saying that Einstein and Marx weren't ethnically German. --Monochrome_Monitor 21:24, 28 April 2015 (UTC) It's so easy to get outnumbered on these issues due to sheer demographics. [reply]

M36 Jackson

I'm not sure what you mean by contemporary, because that could mean either contemporary for us, the normal use of the term, or of the tank. In any event, I suspect you have seen references like this or this or this or this or lots of others that Google immediately turned up. So I'm curious why your would RV in this case? Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:56, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Maury. Check out the M36 T/P for several threads on this. Ok, the way I see it at the moment is that no one appears to be able to find a contemporary source (i.e during its time in service) confirming it was known as the Jackson. In the 60s Tamaya and other model kit manufacturers appear to have brought out kits of the M36 calling it Jackson. It seems that the name was a post-war affectation created by model companies and it somehow "drifted" into mainstream R/S. If we can find a source calling it that from 1945 cool, but it just seems not to be there. So why is it called Jackson? It is a puzzle. Otherwise reliable authors are just being sloppy here I think, and just going with it. Maybe they made models when they were kids? I did ;) Anyway, if you want another go at this on the M36 talk page go for it. I think it should be re-discussed. Maybe there are new sources out there. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're entirely correct, I should have gone there from the start. Please see my notes on 1980s references in US military publications. It may indeed be that "Jackson" is post-war, but its certainly more that a spurious connotation, in spite of what Steven "the soviets fried the space shuttle with lasers" Zaloga might suggest. Maury Markowitz (talk) 20:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Believe me Maury, the bottom would not fall out of my personal world view, nor would I go and live in the woods, sending angry emails to anyone that would listen, if consensus decided to call the M36 "Jackson". I have no POV on this, but I have always considered this a minor but rather stubborn little puzzle. I will join you over at talk in a bit. Regards, Simon a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 20:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 29 April 2015

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC) [reply]

Sehr Gut

Thanks; I did not have a chance to do my daily check-up on the article until now. Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 20:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We all help each other Jonas! It did not belong..Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:49, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Pity

Don't wanna know how you voted. The result was as one expected, but I must admit to a personal disappointment that Ed Miliband failed in his bid, and has resigned. I think he, unlike Camelroon or whatever the drongo's name is, would have understand Paul Krugman's column in todays NYTs. Good men, and wise minds, are not cut out for politics. Whatever, cheers, Simon.Nishidani (talk) 20:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is a disaster Nish, in some ways worse than the 1983 UK general election. We are now doomed to 5 years (oh yes, no more votes of confidence allowed) of unsustainable public spending cuts which have been widely dismissed as being impossible to implement without risking the very fabric of core public sector budgets, bringing with it the strong possibility of serious and developing social unrest over the next years. In addition Labour has lost Scotland to an undeniably socially progressive but essentially inward looking nationalist party, who ultimately hanker after full independence. I doubt whether Scottish Labour will survive. In addition, we have new boundary changes coming in (I believe in 2017) which will further disadvantage Labour in England. I frankly believe a Labour Party under David Miliband's leadership would have been forming a government tonight. My partner has a fairly senior position in a policy-making body for the NHS, and she described by text this afternoon the deep gloom in the office. Seeing her tomorrow for the weekend. The politics of fear won out Nish, as they do in democracies the world over. Very depressed. Simon, or the much misunderstood Irondome (talk) 20:51, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discourteous of me to forget to link. Paul Krugman,Triumph of the Unthinking, New York Times 8 May 2015.

It's the death knell of Labour, I'm afraid (metaphorically speaking. At my age, one just tends to feel sorry for the impact on others) And you're spot on: fear is now what governs democracies. I'm too used to the macro-picture of drift into the progressive dismantling of nation-states and their institutions of community as the paradoxical logic takes hold of simultaneously using central banks to provide unlimited debt relief to financial markets while insisting (Spain, Greece the UK etc.) that states themselves must rachet down drastically their (otherwise perfectly) manageable overdrafts by privatizing everything. Essentially nations are engaged in a massive subsidization of their speculative adversaries. Nations have to think ahead for 20 years, financial betters of a return on investment in nanoseconds, whatever the larger consequences. Yes, in GB 1983 was the turning point, but the damage really began with David Stockman's budget under the first Reagan administration. He openly admitted in his memoir that he faked the 1981 or was it 1983 budget figures to hide a $50 billion (from memory: it's on p.353, again from memory, of his book) shortfall, in the context of a general plan to rid America of the "monster" of social security. America's national debt tripled in 12 years, and that was the structural beginning of it all.

But, these were not my thoughts yesterday. I just felt deeply sorry for Milibrand. I guess one will have to practice a Scots accent. They still have a community identity, and will still have a choice between retaining a semblance of a nation-state or etiolation. Oh well, thank God, beer still exists for such moments. Nishidani (talk) 06:22, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, without prolonging this, but, on reviewing this mentally while out shopping this morning, I thought you might think the above contradictory (US budget deficits, but nation states cannot have budget deficits, ergo the US is not a nation state. Nope.) Such a contradiction would be specious: the three Reagan-Bush administrations tripled U.S. debt, (having started with a critique of Carter's small deficit!) while preaching the evils of deficit spending and the virtues of starving the beast of state finances, something only an imperial lender of last resort can do, and then using the instruments of dominion to offload the world with a doctrinaire vision of financialization that denied states the right to run deficits. Sorry for all this, but unless I clarify, I'll probably still be thinking of it while trying to repair a mower, and electrocute myself through the distraction! Nishidani (talk) 08:53, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pump-priming is needed, not food banks. Please do not have any horticultural mishaps. Think of the children, such as myself. You are badly needed. Now I am away to the home of The good life for a couple of days, to be with the one person that gives my sometimes rather miserable existence meaning. All will be well. Cheerio for now! Simon. Irondome (talk) 12:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Should I report this blatant Jew Hater?

User:Sellingstuff posted something on Talk:Jews which reeks of rabid Jew hatred. Should I report him? It went unnoticed but it's impossible to assume good faith in such a scenario. Here's what he said (my own thoughts are italicized).
"Josephus and the new testament use this greek word that comes out as jew in english https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioudaios . Josephus (and Jesus) were Judeans, they were from Judea (Palestine) (is he arguing that jesus wasn't Jewish?). So you cant call him a 'jew' (Yes, you can. Jew comes from Judean. They are more or less synonymous). Rabbinic judaism has only existed since the closing of the talmud 500 AD anyway so (no, rabbinic judaism originates in the 1st century BC).... How about some photos of Karl Marx (inventor of communism), Sigmund Freud (this is the only one who I don't object to, not sure why he thinks Freud is bad) Gengrich Yagoda (Soviet secret police), Bernie Madoff (infamous ponzi shemer), Jordan Belfort (convicted of fraud, stock market manipulation) or Lenin (he's like one 16th jewish) Trotsky? (another "Jewish Bolshevist") Sellingstuff (talk) 13:20, 1 May 2015 (UTC)"
So, report? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No. It is just rambling crap. I have taken a look. Just a crank who nobody seems to take seriously. You must stop being so hot headed and sensitive. Trust me on this, there were enough decent eds on that thread who would have pulled the user up if it got serious. User:Nishidani is an excellent editor and would have certainly chastised this character if she/he had become too heavy. I want you to chill for a few weeks. Run any proposed edits by me first. You are attracting too much attention MM at the moment. I do not want you blocked. Trust me on all of the above. Simon Irondome (talk) 01:39, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You don't deny that he's probably a racist? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:51, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do trust you Simon. I'll try and lay low for a few weeks. I have been getting a bit of attention. --Monochrome_Monitor 01:55, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The world is full of racists love, but I always find their frustrated impotence amusing. G d sorts these things out, so in the meantime, laugh and relax. The Jewish people are the most powerful they have been in their entire history. A few lines of badly written nonsense does not change that. Sit back, snigger and enjoy the quantam comedy. Simon Irondome (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are an amazing human being. I don't feel powerful though. I feel like the world barely tolerates us. --Monochrome_Monitor 02:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't track editors, so I am unfamiliar with the full record of anyone. Many of the edits I've seen you make on pages I bookmark are sensible (The page on Palestinians being the gross exception, at least 14 notable misprisions in a brief set of exchanges). I don't know what to make of your impression that 'the world barely tolerates us,' other than recognizing what is indeed a widespread community feeling, entertained even at times by writers and thinkers whose work outside of this area I admire. There are numerous nations and peoples who have deep, and justifiable historical grievances: I was stoned or chiakked regularly by Protestants and Methodists as a child of Irish descent. We couldn't even open a business in the central business district because of our 'bog Irish' origins; to marry out (as a consequence of shotgun marriages usually) was a source for the narrow-minded of anguish). One grew up with horrid stories of genocide, of ancestors of deep learning in Latin, Irish and English not being allowed to teach in our villages, except as a 'hedge row teacher' on Sunday mornings, of going to work in an English manor through tunnels cut into the landscape so the sight of these filthy servants walking over the pastoral Eden of stolen land that constituted the English lords' prospect of untarnished Arcadian beauty would not disturb the pleasure of the lord in looking out the window of a morning as he breakfasted, and having his enjoyment of a rich repaste contaminated by brutes. But all these stories handed down, never became a programmatic 'attitude' that conditioned our every thought. It didn't translate into paying dues when the local IRA man entered the bar and asked for contributions to the cause, money for arms to shoot the occupier. It didn't, in short, translate into a grievance against them. Our 'ethnicity' was our business, an attitude shared by the learned scholars who taught me, some of them Jews of great distinction in their fields, who no more thought of me as Irish, as I did of them as Jews (which as often as not I only learnt of late, when overhearing some out-of-the-blue anti-Semitic crack about a man I felt honoured to be taught by). Perhaps this world is lost, as communications makes every small or large event concerning one's ethnic confreres the object of intense media focus, and a general sense of tacit panic takes root. Be careful. Sure, anti-Semites are plentiful, but they don't last long on Wikipedia, any more than do people who think the battle against anti-Semitism has to be waged on every article where Israel is mentioned. Don't get sucked in to this us/them. Above all, rely on Simon's guidance. If he drops a cautionary word my way, I, as a rather shady reprobate of dubious reputation here at times, would take his advice as an informed and amicable suggestion to reflect on what I'm doing.Nishidani (talk) 12:06, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disputes over gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality and sexual orientation have sucked in even well-intentioned and experienced editors and left them bruised and with a battleground mentality where the goal stops being creating and maintaining well-written and reasonable articles and begins to be doing whatever is possible to chase the opposition off of the project. Biased editors and editors editing in bad faith can become collaborators through dispute resolution or if they are intractable, sanctioned by an uninvolved administrator. Listen to this wise counsel from Simon and Nishidani and be vigilant but not belligerent and you can avoid any boomerangs that might head your way one day. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 13:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you :)

Thanks for being such a great mentor. Unfortunately I'm a terrible apprentice and I can't keep out of trouble, so I'm going to quit Wikipedia. I can't stand the bureaucratic bullshit and I'm sick of arguing all the time. Thanks for being a friend to me though. ♥

Georgia aka --Monochrome_Monitor 21:53, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 13 May 2015

Foundation elections: Board candidates share their views with the Signpost

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Featured content: Four first-time featured article writers lead the way

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	For your mentoring efforts Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:42, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's very nice of you User:Hawkeye7! Hopefully all will come right to everyone concerned in the course of time. Cheers mate Irondome (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results
Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content
Book review: Recent external reviews
Op-ed: TomStar81 and Simon Harley on the sinking of the Lusitania
Timeline: This month in World War I

The Signpost: 20 May 2015

From the editor: Your voice is needed: strategic voting in the WMF election

In focus: The awful truth about Wikimedia's article counts

Traffic report: Inner Core

News and notes: A dark side of comedy: the Wikipedia volunteers cleaning up behind John Oliver's fowl jokes

Featured content: Puppets, fungi, and waterfalls

In the media: Jimmy Wales accepts Dan David Prize

WikiProject report: Cell-ebrating Molecular Biology

Arbitration report: Editor conduct the subject of multiple cases

Barnstar for You! EVERYONE!~~~~

The Good Article Barnstar

For your joint contributions and brilliant copyediting efforts in bringing this article to GA-status, I award you, EyeTruth, Delldot, GeneralizationsAreBad, Nick-D, Irondome, Hashi0707, P. S. Burton, MisterBee1966, Obenritter, and everyone else I forgot to mention this Barnstar! Awesome job, keep it up. :) Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 18:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~ISIS accounts on Wikipedia~~
I asked C-Bomb on what I can do if I saw some edits, comments and pictures that glorifies ISIS because I'm worried that there may be some users who are ISIS supporters. These users vandalize articles with an ISIS flag, pro-ISIS messages and comments. Should users that support ISIS be blocked? 174.113.217.132 (talk) 03:30, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Made my day~~
~~'but I do like the odd bit of bacon. G d bears with me'. Thanks! Nishidani (talk) 10:17, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
"The bottom line is that we made a mistake," wrote Almoz. "The IDF will continue to keep kosher, but won't probe another soldier's sandwich." An immortal sentence. Thanks for the shock horror porky probe scoop Nish! Simon Irondome (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The poor blighter was from Boston, where, I hear, septic tank dialect usage re 'pork swords' can be heard at times, which might ring warning bells to halal kosher ears missing the funny bone. He probably never gave it a second thought. Waal, I'll hit the fartsack thinking that if Micks can talk of 'burying the bishop', when they're in a romantic mood, . . 'nite! By the way, do parse my edits at Jewish deicide. I got there via checking MM's last edits. I'm not satisfied. That is an anti-Semitic canard. I added the known stuff there because for 2,000 years people keep confusing an ethnic group with what one sect or court, in one specific period, said of a heretic in their ranks, who by definition couldn't have been God in their terms. . . the problem is how to explain through good sources and yet not feed the fuckwits who tend to jump in glee at the stuff I added. It's worried me today. Cripes, some stuff is hard to edit in unproblematically.

Received and understood. A bastard of a subject area, the essence of which you define with pure clarity. Added to my watchlist. Your edits look fine to me, although we shall be obviously vigilant for any activities of aptly described fuckwits to pervert your points. The article could still do with some minor tweaking. Happy to work with you on it Nish. I am getting into deep academic waters in a couple of unrelated subject areas in the past few days, the Korean miasma (see thread below) and I need to bone up on some questions that the excellent and brave editor (who I count as another mate) User:Wee Curry Monster has quite rightly raised in the vexed Falklands dispute subject area, pointing up the essentially Neo-Fascist origins and nature of much of contemporary Argentinian nationalism, which worryingly is reflected in A. published "mainstream" sources presently being deployed by a small minority with an extreme pro A. POV. I'm feeling rather drained, and intellectually inadequate at the moment, my thinking processes are sluggish and my insights stale, and chasing MM down the rabbit holes of her sometimes eclectic editing pattern is tiring, although I shall never give up on that young lady, who I firmly believe is promising, although her editing reflects youthful fears and emotions, which increasing maturity and increasing awareness of the wonderful paradoxical journey of the Jewish intellectual, spiritual and historical experience will in time allay. Sleep well Nish.

Well it's good to lighten up sometimes Nish. The Byzantine ramshackle structure that is WP will not collapse due to lighthearted japes..(A distant growing rumbling offstage..) Ooops. Cheers! Simon or the irresponsible Irondome (talk) 17:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No wuz (re spellen), but uh. . .I fink, guvna, tha'cha yer pud it a bit skew-wiffy wordordurewise. That orta run: 'it's good to lighten up Nish sometimes'. G'nite, pal! Nishidani (talk) 20:59, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And to you my friend, and to you. Si Irondome (talk) 21:04, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~No Gun Ri-documents~~
Thanks for your efforts thus far on No Gun Ri Massacre. At this point, because I sense some confusion, and a natural lack of background on the subject, I'm urging all who are taking a hand in this to, please, review the documents at the Wikimedia page Category:No Gun Ri Massacre, here [[3]]. It can be a quick run-through. I've just discovered there's no link at the WP page to this compilation. I can't remember how it was configured previously, whether someone deleted it etc. But this is really a must, since these a key documents mentioned in secondary sources. Thanks. Cjhanley (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:30, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~War of the Triple Alliance / Paraguayan War~~
~~I have proposed an alternative formulation, you may wish to comment. W C M_email 20:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Good to hear from you WCM. Hope all is well. Will be over in a bit to comment. Cheers mate. Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:38, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~NGR~~
I know you're busy with things that happen places other than the internet. But we've gone through way too many revisions of the lead over at No Gun Ri and I think we might have something that works. Since you're the only person who hasn't been involved in the editing, I think it's fitting if you voice your opinion on it and be the one who actually makes the edit if you approve. Thanks. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:40, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have been following the evolution of the new version as much as I can, and absorbing new material (see thread above) while dealing with offline stuff. Happy to assist, as you know. Please can you suspend all new edits until about 7pm London time tomorrow. Unsure what timezone you are in TJW, but that would be about 2pm EST. I will be able to work on it for at least two hours then. Hope this is ok with you and other colleagues. Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am EST, but my work schedule is stupid. So it's anybody's guess when I'll be awake and online (or whether I'll know what day of the week it is). No hurry. No deadline and all.Timothyjosephwood (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~More NGR nonsense~~
Hi,
Thanks for helping out on No Gun Ri Massacre. Just for full disclosure, I fear that I accidentally revived this quagmire with a post months ago, inquiring about consensus over the use of a certain source (Robert Bateman), and the use of the Dale Kuehl thesis. That being said, I am also aware of the lengthy and tangled dispute.
Anyway, back to business. I am unsure of the situation of NGR, mainly because the promising progress may be affected by the recent ANI drama and the propensity of both warring editors to WP:SOAPBOX and make long lists of grievances/personal attacks. I have already contacted Timothyjosephwood about this, and I am unsure of the path forward for this troubled page. In any event, I think it is critical to get more uninvolved editors from MILHIST or elsewhere. Sorry for this incoherent rant.
Best,
GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that the consensual edits that you and Timothy have worked so hard for and is discussed above may not hold without the explicit consent of the two major protagonists. I am finding it very hard to keep track of developments, and I don't really know what to do either. It is as much of a stalemate in terms of entrenched views as the original war itself after 1951! Other editors brought in, even if experienced and respected, may merely find themselves bogged down and frustrated, and that may lead to frayed tempers. The dispute is far older, the lines of argumentation more embedded, the repeated cycles of argument and counter-claim using pretty much the same sources, is far more embedded than I suspected. Maybe a MILHIST panel of very respected editors could arbitrate on this. Maybe that is doable. I do not support either of the main arguments, they are both all or nothing. I see much grey, cock up and panic. I do not doubt that the U.S. military made some brutal miscalls and were hugely embarrassed by it after. But I do not see any vast overarching conspiracy. The line was collapsing. The forces were poorly trained and equipped. I think both protagonists should remember that the incident occurred in
a very different time and a very different world. That is not an excuse, that is a sad reality. If both attempted to adjust their uncompromising POVs and make some token allowances for the opposing view, I think we might start to get somewhere. Simon Irondome (talk) 22:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. That's quite deep. Honestly, I'm not an uber-nationalist trying to "whitewash" the event, or a left-winger attempting to allege a "vast right-wing conspiracy" and shame the Army. I'm just trying to add some quality information and see this dispute through to its long-overdue end. I foresee one editor working with Timothy and I to create a well-sourced proposal, only for it to be vetoed by the other. If you have any ideas of other editors who might be interested in fixing up this article, please do. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 22:34, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey GAB, chill. No way did I say you were. I was just looking at the two opposing POVs that have been butting heads and just was making a few general observations. No way do I think anything of the sort bro. I admire you for sticking your head over the parapet and trying to take this bear of an issue on, with Timothy. That just shows how deep the article issues are. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 22:39, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh... I'm really sorry if I didn't clarify my post. I didn't mean it that way at all. I was just trying to satirize the extreme positions on either side of the issue, and how they try to caricature one another. It's all good, sorry for any confusion :) GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:06, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm actually quite mortified about that. My bad. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:12, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sarcasm is truly a dangerous tool in the hands of the unwitting, such as myself. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:17, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All is good!!! Stop beating yourself up, you didnt do anything. It was me wandering around some ill-defined grey ideal middle ground version of the article, with my usual crap homilies ;) Now, I have created a new section on NGR talk. It's an attempt to at least get some consensus on something. Anything. Maybe that would be a start in helping to birth a better article. That's what we are here for. Relax pal, all is good ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 23:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Irondome, GeneralizationsAreBad I would remind that per WP:CON, consensus does not mean unanimity. I fully expect that there are many points in this debate that either side will never agree to ever. This is, after all, the reason why we have third parties on the page. If all of the editors on the page agree to an edit and one party objects, the solution is simple. Consensus is established, the edit should be made, and the dissenting editor has the opportunity to propose other edits in the future on the talk page to rectify what they may see as a problem. If they decide to war because they didn't get their way instead of engaging in suggestion and discussion, we have enough editors to revert disruptive edits without violating WP:3RR.
This is not therapy. We are not here to talk about our feelings. Everyone does not need to leave happy at the end of the day. What we are here to do is to verify that proposed edits are supported by WP:RS, provide WP:DUEWEIGHT, meet WP:MOS, and otherwise comply with WP policy and guidelines. Unanimity is a desirable, but not crucial part of this process. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 23:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have my therapy on thursdays Tim. 2pm. Seriously. This is not therapy but an attempt to clear a vast logjam of accumulated crap and rancour. You are proposing enforcing proposed edits which have attracted sufficient consensus, and can be supported by the relevant WP guidance as above. I support if there is no other alternative. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:06, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Timothyjosephwood Then the edit we discussed yesterday is still good to go? I am assuming it has consensus. If GeneralizationsAreBad signs up to it I suggest we make it in 24 hrs if there is no constructive attempts at dialogue between the dissenting parties. Am I reading you right on this? Irondome (talk) 00:19, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I support "Counter 7," but the understood rule is that another editor makes the edit. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 00:37, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine to move forward. We have agreement among four out of five editors. The disagreement is on wording of a particular passage not crucial for the overall proposal. Weld has not been productive in contributing to the dozen or more edits to the section so far, and has not followed up on the only edit he has proposed period. As I am sure I have made abundantly clear, I have no respect or patience for unconstructive debate tangentially related to an edit that no one has proposed.
There is no reason for this to block the proposal as it stands. If Weld wishes to propose additional changes he can do so proactively on the talk, not by using a minor dispute to obstruct the productivity of others while we could be moving on to other proposals. When I see Weld get on board with the nitty gritty "there needs to be a comma here and a source there", I will be more willing to delay for his disagreement. Currently he's done very little and all of it has been relatively significant POV changes.
If we set a precedent of "unanimity or bust" nothing is going to get done. If we WP:BEBOLD and set a precedent of "get on board and be productive or we'll simply move on without you", it provides an incentive for cooperation. As previously stated, you have not been directly involved in prop 7. So you seem to be the guy to pull the switch.Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(Oh yeah, plus I'm just interested to see if this immediately starts an edit war.) Timothyjosephwood (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm throwing the switch after I get my chores done tomorrow and I get back to base. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~That was what I was worrying about. I also don't want to go to ANI unless it's absolutely necessary. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
If this does start a war, I suggest that we all three expend our three revisions before going to ANI, and that we all three provide warnings when our edits are reverted. Violating WP:3RR by making four edits is a world away from violating 3RR by making 9 revs after being warned by three different users. I would also like to say that I am jealous of Iron's regular therapy appointments. I only wish I had a work schedule that let me do that. And even though I'm in mental health, I should probably be in therapy. I am way too fascinated by human suffering and have read way too much on 20th Century genocides. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 04:39, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also Jesus tits, you need to start archiving your talk. It's harder to navigate than "yo momma's phat azz". Or so I'm told. I haven't been in London in a long time, and that was a 15 minute layover. Also full disclosure, I have never seen your mother's "phat azz".Timothyjosephwood (talk) 05:02, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If we do have to go to ANI, I daresay we have a very strong case to make. As a last resort, it may be necessary, but I don't want to jump the gun before we've exhausted all other options. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 16:54, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~About that switch~~
It seems apparent that discussion on Counter 7 has reached a point where it is fundamentally not about the edit. Let's be done with it. We are already moving on to other proposals. ~~If you would like I can post another role call on the talk, but I'm not sure it's necessary.~~ As you were. I'm just going to post it. Better safe than sorry. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 17:37, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Please do. There was no real opposition/criticism or counterproposals. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
I've put up Counter 7. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. I just noticed. Looking good. It appears that some constructive dialogue by the parties is now ongoing. Things seem much better. Well done! Irondome (talk) 18:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~I certainly hope this puts an end to the bitterness, but I might be a bit over-optimistic. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Thanks!~~

No Gun Ri Barnstar

I think it is definitely a bit early to start handing out Barnstars, but I really appreciate your help in moderating No Gun Ri Massacre. Let's all hope we can keep things stable and productive. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 23:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~User:Monochrome Monitor and AN3~~
See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Monochrome Monitor reported by User:Nomoskedasticity (Result: ). This AN3 case is still waiting a decision by admins. You proposed that MM take a one or more week break from Jewish subjects, but that offer was not accepted. She has resumed editing at Baruch Goldstein, where she seems to have violated 1RR on June 1. Lacking any indication that MM will adhere to the ARBPIA 1RR in the future, I think admins should consider imposing a three-month topic ban from ARBPIA. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 01:23, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the note EdJohnston. Some you win, some you lose. Your main task is to protect the interests of the project. You must do as you see fit. Regards Simon. Irondome (talk) 02:43, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~Sorry~~
~~I'm sorry for letting you down, Irondome. You were a great mentor, but I am an unruly child. Hopefully some time in the joint will do me well. --Monochrome_Monitor 16:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Holocaust Article~~
Hi Irondome,
You mentioned that the Holocaust article was about the "Jewish Holocaust." However, in the first paragraph of the article, it says that some historians use a definition including the five million non-Jews. Don't worry, I'm not going to revert your revert - don't want an edit war! - but I just wanted to talk it out and reach consensus here. If you'd prefer to talk somewhere else, I set up a section on the relevant article's talk page. I think it's more efficient and better conveys the information if the different target groups are lumped together. After all, should we also provide statistics (e.g. what percentage of the group was killed, how many children of each group were killed) for Roma, Catholics, mentally ill, Soviet POWs, etc.?
Thank you for reading. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 00:58, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(Talk page stalker) It would better if the matter was discussed on the Holocaust talk page. The archives have several threads relating to this issue. many editors (like me) un-watched the article because of the constant drama. My view (which you will see if you read the threads) is that "The Holocaust" refers to the Jews. The Roma have their own term, and some of the others have advocates that want to associate the losses of "their" people with the genocide of the Jews with a range of motives. I believe the academic consensus is that they should be kept separate, but acknowledge that there is a vocal minority who disagree. Regards, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 01:08, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(e/c) Welcome LoM. I appreciate your courteous and measured posting. Please note that the operative word is some, in the section in the lede which mentions "some historians.." This indicates that their positions does not reflect the majority current historical consensus among current research, and I fear your edit would fall under WP:UNDUE in the sense of making such a significant edit. The Holocaust is a vastly complex subject as we are all aware, but it is generally accepted that the primary targets of the event were the Jewish people, in line with the racial obsessions and paranoid projecting of the Nazi phenomenon. I believe the plight of the other groups affected is adequately covered by the links which your edit removed. The line of argumentation of adding all the afflicted groups risks confusing some core issues, the primary one being that the Holocaust was a consequence of an imagined racial war between "Aryans" and the Jewish people. This is a critical point. As has been said by Richard Grunberger, the centrality of the Jewish "threat" to Nazi theory was as critical to it's ideology as was class to Marxist doctrine. I would argue that the current versions should stand for these reasons. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 01:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Sounds good. I just looked at the links which suffered as collateral damage from my edit and it looks as though they cover the topic well. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~A barnstar for you!~~

The Barnstar of Diplomacy

For the way in which you were able to facilitate a peaceful discussion on the article about the Holocaust, even though we came from opposing viewpoints. Lord of Mirkwood (talk) 02:40, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Our viewpoints were not so very different. You were merely temporarily thrown by a subtle distinction in the lede, which you are now aware of. I enjoy assisting new editors who show promise, and you are welcome here anytime if you have any problems, or even if you don't! Simon Irondome (talk) 02:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~Talk:Battle of Kursk/GA1~~
~~As you are an active editor of the article, you might want to participate in the review and offer some helpful suggestions. Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 08:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Thanks for the alert Jonas! Irondome (talk) 21:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~"Wikipedia - ain't nobody got time to read a whole book!"~~
~~For some laughs. :) Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 10:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Once more into the breach...~~
Hi!
Sorry to turn your attention back to such a frustrating page, but I'd really appreciate any assistance with dispute resolution over at No Gun Ri Massacre.
Thanks,
GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 18:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi GAB. I was going to say I hope all is well...been off a few days, and am assuming consensual editing model is creaking again. Damn. Will pop over in a bit. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:08, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Thank you. GeneralizationsAreBad (talk) 21:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~List of people killed or wounded in the 20 July plot/archive2~~
~~Would appreciate your vote or suggestions for improvement! Best, Jonas Vinther • (speak to me!) 18:11, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Hi Jonas, looks interesting, will be over in a while. Hope all is well. Simon Irondome (talk) 18:59, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
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The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Not about herzl~~
Sorry if my remark about Herzl hit a nerve. You should take the liberty of making a stronger remonstration if you disagree with me on these issues, in so far as we might touch on them from time to time (entre nous, not re articles). Obviously Altneuland is in another world compared to MK. My point was about books that seed ideas which have unintended consequences. Herzl was understandably shocked by Dreyfus (and the widespread support that travesty of a kangaroo court got). That trial's aftermath play a big part in Kafka's imagery. If he had had some sense of consequentialist logic, as Jabotinsky had, of what his idea would entail, 700,000 dispossessed, 40% of the entire male population of the territories experiencing arrest and gaol since 1967, he might have chosen some less fraught land, a land where this problem wouldn't compromise or put under dangerous strain Judaism's moral core and idealism. But that's enough of that. I was rearranging my books today and came across David Daiches's wonderful memoir Two Worlds : An Edinburgh Jewish Childhood. I vaguely recall I suggested it was a good read to someone on wiki, and if it wasn't yourself, I strongly recommend it. Cheers, Simon. Don't reply. I needed to clarify before hitting the hay.Nishidani (talk) 21:42, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All is fine Nish! No nerve was hit, interest was. It would be rather dreary if we agreed on everything, friendships tend to be ruined that way. However, we hit a major fault line. You appear to be intimating that Jews should not have gone to Palestine, which as we all know, was the historical Israel and Judea, which whatever one's POV, is the heartland of the Jewish faith and it's intimate connection to that land, but rather have been directly implicated in the horrific conquest of an "alien" continent and the consequent virtual extermination of native American nations residing therein. This you claim to be the new Zion. It isn't Nish, its an unambiguously stolen continent, which the Jewish people have no historical connection to whatsoever. Compared to the horrors visited upon the inhabitants of the North American continent, the current (arguably self inflicted, due to abysmal leadership and an undeniably existing prejudice towards any autonomous self-governing Jewish polity, which sadly is rampant throughout the region, a vile manifestation of racism and intolerance) inconveniences of the Palestinians is but small beer. Their healthy population growth since 1967 attests to that. One could in fact argue that Palestinian self-identity is a direct, unintended gift from the Israeli people, an inelegant response to Zionism. You appear to be saying that Jews are fine, as long as they don't pursue that pesky living in Israel as a Jewish state thing. I must disagree with your premise. Your great friend, Simon, or the occasionally inebriated Irondome (talk) 22:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I may be wrong, but I don't think of Jews/Israel in exceptionalist terms, and that, certainly, might look odd. Anything I say on these topics either must illustrate a general pattern or rule of human behavior or universal history, or it is badly thought out. That's my working premise anyway.

I have a prejudice. I think historically Jews, and this is one of the things to be extremely proud of, make poor ethnic nationalists: that equation of patriotism and ethnos is a blight on the world, and one which Jews historically were relatively exempt. They could have taught the rest of us a deep lesson that global life doesn't mean a renunciation of strong traditional attachments to a specific local history. The specific problem is religion was the indispensable cement that enabled Jews to survive the dispersive violence of history, forged their identity. But if one turns nationalist, which is an intrinsically secular process, that religious tradition, positive in diaspora, will by an iron logic, tend to usurp the project by an exacerbated fundamentalism. Arab polities suffer from this, and, it is a pity to watch on, helpless, as the same flaw undermines Israel's secular state. That is not to dismiss religion: it is simply to state the obvious. Of course Jews should have felt entitled to go to Mandatory Palestine, or anywhere else. Going there under a national organized separatist project is another matter. A huge amount of those who went did so because they couldn't get to America, France, England or elsewhere (Isaac Bashevis Singer's novels and history tell us that) History is mess, and as Gibbon said, a record of crime, and this applies to every history. There is nothing special in Israel's, except that it is a latecomer to old processes that were known, predictable mainly, and, in its general public discourse cannot see this because 1939-1945 and a sense of exceptionalism weighs immensely on clear perceptions of what is to be done to achieve some semblance of normality in one's national life. Historians fuck up if they think of their work as a moral tribunal. It isn't. Metahistorical judgement is another matter, and of course highly speculative. In the specific case, the 1917 Balfour Declaration was geopolitically stupid, but it created a state, juridically endorsed by international consensus, in 1947. In both cases informed opinion saw the mess that would take place (King–Crane Commission, as perceptive as Keynes was in his The Economic Consequences of the Peace), both 1919, and the US State department in 1947-1948. Anyone who questions that foundational legitimacy is almost unequivocably anti-Semitic. I grew up being reminded by my clan that the family's fortunes were the consequence of two acts of genocide, the English treatment of the Irish down to 1846, which precipitated a diaspora of collateral wings, and an English forbear's genocidal attempt to exterminate an aboriginal tribe in order to secure his pasture rights on their land. It's not in the history books, but the intimate details were handed down, and corroborated by encounters with the survivors of the poisoning. So I grew up, thanks to attentive parents, deeply aware of the nexus between success and murder, local pride and ethnic enmity. I see the same problem throughout world history. I have been very curious about the I/P one because it is so thoroughly documented yet so thoroughly entrammeled by profound historical memories of trauma, that rightly or wrongly, infuse every argument that it provides a rare case of conceptual scotoma in general awareness. I.e. there is nothing unusual going on: this is the way history works, but (it is characteristic of hegemon states, America, China, Japan once, etc.etc.) we are told to think about this or that instance as having peculiarly 'exceptionalist' elements which do not allow one to think comparatively.
All nations are founded on injustice to some party, and programmatic disremembrance by the victor (Ernest Renan What is a Nation? We knew that, in other words, donkey's ages ago, but went ahead. I'm not original in any of this: for me, Tony Judt, whose work I followed from its inception, said it all (here)(here). It's a matter of having the historical awareness of what key decisions will most probably lead to, and acting to avoid negative consequences. That is what politicians do when they rise to greatness, which is rarely (as in England's Slave Trade Act 1807, which was arguably a violation of economic logic and immediate national self-interest). I have never confused Jews with Israel, Israel is itself a multiethnic state so even there it is parlous to keep thinking of it exclusively in 'Jewish' terms: they are two independent discourses, the former being an undefinable congeries of histories, cultures, united by a basic symbolic code, where the individual cuts out his own discursive identitarian space without the complications of nationalism, and the latter, in so far as it is programmatically an 'ethnic state', tends by the logic of things to find itself incessantly obliged or tempted to compromise this liberty, won in the haskalah, by growing, extremely complicated moral-political dilemmas that inflect lives that, otherwise, with a democratic, open, advanced industrial state, deserve the normative security and tranquility that is integral to what all modern social contracts do - the state disarms its citizens in exchange for a guarantee of justice and security. 'Their healthy population growth since 1967' (their population growth has been stable throughout the century: they had a superior level of high school graduation to Israel's in 1967*: this fell to pieces after the occupation; read Sara Roy, the world's foremost expert on Gaza on what occurred before all the Intifadas, to thwart its development in 1970s and 1980s, and this view of improvement dissolves). For them, it has been a disaster. Israel had 3 basic intelligent options: immediate annexation of the West Bank and Gaza, rapid modernization of all services, civil rights, such that the average 'occupied' person would have, as they did in the first year, appreciate where their real interests might lie. Alternatively, immediate declaration of a provisory federated state negotiated with the parties, or lastly, total withdrawal (Yeshayahu Leibowitz), except for the borders, with an offer of favourable trade arrangements with Palestinians, leaving them to decide. It chose the 4th easy standard model: muddle through, to get more, at whatever the cost, and ignore the inevitable stagnant violence that would ineludibly ensue as a minor, bearable cost, paid for by Uncle Sam. That it made no drastic decision either way, but adopted equivocation, ambiguity, while incrementally taking key assets dunam after dunam, was a recipe for perennial conflict, a warrant/alibi for Palestinian extremism, and a larger geopolitical mess. As for Palestinian identity, it is undergoing the same processes that Jewish identity underwent in the Babylonian exile and after 70 C.E., with a difference: in the Jewish instance, a sacerdotal class created the concept of ethnic nation and bound its definition to religious observances. Haj Amin al-Husseini ironically, and unwittingly, crammed that mimetic experiment into his brief disastrous years, and it failed. Palestinian identity is, as Jewish popular identity, based on intense memories of dispossession and diasporic nostalgia and discrimination, but remains fundamentally secular. In this sense, communicating realistically is almost impossible because some of these deep analogies are unnerving. The Israeli psychoanalytic school is excellent on all this, but no one reads them. So are Yehuda Elkana, which I began to read after a tip-off from Nableezy. He too anticipated almost everything I have thought on these issues, and all I can do is nod assent as I read page after page.

(We are abusing wikispace, Simon. I must dedicate the day to my gardens and some Chinese questions.) Cheers (and, really, let's not let our thoughts dwell on these things too often. One likes a voice, and establishes contact. Politics are intrusive, and there is so much one might chat, recall, or yarn about, books and the like Nishidani (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I checked round to get a link and found a wiki article that should have mentioned this since I had often incorporated it. I found the book I used cited in Culture of Palestine, where however to my surprise now, (actually the sneaky trick of rtewriting it made me burst out laughing), one reads:-

levels among Palestinians have traditionally been high. In the 1960s the West Bank had a higher percentage of its adolescent population enrolled in high school education than did Lebanon.(29=West Bank 44.6% versus 22.8% in Lebanon. See Elias H.Tuma, Haim Darin-Drabkin, The Economic case for Palestine, Croom Helm, London, 1978 p.48.)

I must be one of the few people who have a personal copy of that obscure volume. On p.48 one reads:

'According to the 1967 census figures, a high participation in education has prevailed in both the West Bank and Gaza. . In comparison with both Israel and Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza seem to have a favourable educational basis. The age group 6-11 shows a high participation in Israel (84.4) than in the West Bank (80.5) but, in the group 15-17 years of age, the percentage in the West Bank is considerably higher than in Israel, 44.6 compared to 22.8 in Israel (no mention of Lebanon. Some editor popped in and replaced 'Israel' with Lebanon because, I guess, it is embarrassing to be told that before it was colonized, the West Bank has a more technically advanced youth population than Israel. The occupation degraded the very good technical-educational basis for nationhood in the West Bank, as the Unification of Italy de-industrialized Southern Italy. It's that sort of thing, of which I know hundreds, which informs my remarks about Herzl's consequences). Now, I'll correct that naughty tweak, and get back to my proper workaday. Have a good one, pal.Nishidani (talk) 10:32, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Today was a rare day, Nish. a day where the best of human nature was displayed, a day replete with little acts of kindness, a day when the concept of humanity takes on tangible and concrete form. After seeing my therapist at Charing Cross Hospital, a wonderful, wise man who I shall call Indie, ( I am undertaking a fairly exhausting course of Cognitive behavioral therapy) I chatted to the hospital's wonderful collection of Koi and Catfish, and discovered from an ex paramedic named David, a Glaswegian who had been with his wife, being treated for a cancer of the jaw, that the Koi prefer Hobnobs, and the catfish are more partial to Ritz crackers. Afterwards I admired the Henry Moore sculpture nearby. The air was warm. Then I listened to a gifted street performer, named Jesus, and we talked a while, outside Hammersmith Broadway, where he regularly draws admiring crowds, and not a little money. Then I met Halima, a lovely Somalian refugee lady with two bright and vital kids, whom I first met while teaching the rudiments of English to. She considers me a good person, and I always retort gently that she must be mistaking me for someone else. She is in danger of being forcibly rehoused out of London, but bears the worry gracefully. Later while picking up my happy pills, I fell to talking with a witty and good- hearted Palestinian gentleman named Eddy. He had a frozen chicken in a carrier bag on his head, claiming it cooled the body and cleared the mind. He shared the fowl, and within a moment my body too was cooled and my mind cleared. Then we spoke of vintage cars, and the fact, with which I heartily agreed, that everything made after 1965 is shoddy rubbish, and of the perils of the word reasonable in guarantees and warranties. I was happy to discover that we both knew Fat George, who I have not seen for some time. He then gave me an open invitation to visit him at his flat near to mine, and left, his piercing blue eyes flashing. London was a place of joy today. So yes, it was a good one Nish. Thanks for wishing it for me. Your friend Simon, or at times, Irondome (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You have me more than a tad anxious, dear Simon. I keep erasing long sentences in reply. I'm only relieved that you had a Bloomsian day of it, rare as in the irish sense in the words of the song 'the rare old days'. My brother, my deepest bond, had a breakdown and has had years on 'happy pills', so I can see these things, even in others, with fraternal empathy. He's been well ever since and pulled through, despite large burdens. From what I see between our occasional words, you have rare gifts, and they will pull you through. If my first augury last night worked, I hope my second wish functions as efficiently. I'll keep you in my thoughts. Good friendships often conduct most of their conversation silently, as each thinks of what the other would say, rendering the slippery-sloppiness of actual speech, more discreet, more intimate, and in a sense more companionable. I talk with several people everyday, some are dead technically, the others, like my siblings, are out there, but we only feel the need to chat directly once or year, because we have the habit of thinking about each other every day, silently. And thanks for the vivid vignette. I can see it all as though it had been my day, and wish it had been (4 relatives in hospital today, one at serious risk, another with cancer, another with perhaps dementia praecox, a wonderful woman. I only hope my own cognitive diagnosis of her condition is correct, and the doctors wrong). Very best wishes. Nishi Nishidani (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All will be well Nish. There is a time for everything under the sun. Strip the value laden layers from events, and they become things of growth, or at least the warm commonality of shared human experience. Your words are greatly appreciated mate. I was feeling doom-laden last night. My comments reflected my own internal fears, nothing more. My essential fears that a belief system, however noble or wise, cannot protect a people or an ideal from genocidal hatreds still lurk however. Shalom mate. Si. Irondome (talk) 22:47, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My only advice to my brother was 'stay out of politics', 'don't get sucked into political arguments'. I regard most news sources as attempts on one's sanity, and most public voices taking sides on this particular issue as wishing to browbeat and twist by sensationalism the broader public into a sense of anxiety and panic. I regret having conversed about these issues given what you now say. Antisemitism is ineradicable, like racism generally, but the institutional safeguards are in place, not against genocide, that is becoming increasingly commonplace -(James Lovelock estimates that 90% of the world's population will not survive the systemic upheavels forseeable through to 2100, for example, and even on an optimistic calculation even if he is only a quarter right, this is structurally going to take place in the Third World, not in the first world). This specific type you fear, which, were it to take place, would be a double genocide, of half the world's Jews and half the world's Palestinians. Their fate is intertwined, and both have a vested interest in each other's survival and dignity. Let's drop the issue. Last night a firefly tried to get into my library. It took a while to cup it harmlessly and gentle it out into the dark. The Chinese of another age would have put it in a lamp, and used its pulsing luminescence to lucubrate over some old manuscript into the wee hours. Stay well, and, whenever, here or by email (if so, nothing political. strictly matey chats), keep in touch. Take this and print it out. お心とお体を大事になさって下さい (okokoro to okarada wo daiji ni nasatte kudasai,'Take care of both your mind/heart and your physical wellbeing)Calligraphy has talismanic power.Best Nishidani (talk) 09:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Signpost: 24 June 2015

From the editor: The Signpost tagging initiative

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:13, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 01 July 2015

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Admistrator's Discussion~~
Hey Irondome! I am afraid I have become ensnared with User EyeTruth again. I mentioned your name as a character witness at the Adminstartor's Edit Warring page. Just an FYI. Thanks. Gunbirddriver (talk) 03:46, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Classic Gunbirddriver, using cleverly picked words to try and polarize the situation. Why didn't you use the same words on the talkpage of the admin that penalized your edit-warring? BTW, Irondom you should check out and may want to contribute to the discussion on the Prokhorovka talkpage, thanks. EyeTruth (talk) 19:03, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Let's keep it calm men. No reason to get stressed anyone! I'l pop over. Cheers all Simon Irondome (talk) 20:20, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Barnstar~~

The Barnstar of Diplomacy

Natural diplomats are a dying breed. Please do keep well and thereby ensure the survival of the species Nishidani (talk) 10:46, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is very thoughtful of you Nish, and much appreciated. I have been busy the past weeks helping to advance the knowledge of disadvantaged people, and more thoroughly examining some of the little hidden gems of architecture that abound in my little neighbourhood. All is well Nish. I must visit my fish during the week, and take a packet of hobnobs. The fish appreciate them! I hope you are well mate. I've not made an edit in over a week, which is out of character. Hmm.. Cheers Nish! Keep well and K.B.O. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Phew, glad to hear all's well. My dad was an architect, an indirect scion of Frank Lloyd Wright, so I was raised on the topic. Another shared interest. Don't worry about editing. Keep well, anfd if ya feel a bit down in the dumps, catch an hour of the Poms thrashing the living daylights out of those downunder drongos in the Ashes. Best Nishidani (talk) 20:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Books and Bytes - Issue 12~~

~~The Wikipedia Library~~

Books & Bytes
Issue 12, May-June 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

New donations - Taylor & Francis, Science, and three new French-language resources

Expansion into new languages, including French, Finnish, Turkish, and Farsi

Spotlight: New partners for the Visiting Scholar program

American Library Association Annual meeting in San Francisco

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~~The Interior 15:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
The Signpost: 15 July 2015

Op-ed: On paid editing and advocacy: when the Bright Line fails to shine, and what we can do about it

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:43, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~NGR, again~~
Just wanted to give you a heads-up that Iryna Harpy is reviewing the whole No Gun Ri dispute, and will (hopefully) be submitting to ANI in the near future. Lest I be accused of canvassing, I'll leave it at that. However, I think this is probably the best chance we have of resolving this situation.
Thanks for your help,
GAB (talk) 23:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Really appreciate the heads up GAB. Been very busy past weeks so my wikitime has dropped a bit. I had assumed that the NGR issue had settled, but I have noticed recently in my brief times online that the issue has flared again to another impasse. I shall keep a watch, as well as time allows. Regards Simon, a.k.a. Irondome (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~There is currently an arbitration case open here, and I am not sure exactly how I feel about it. GAB^Hello! 22:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Back on duty ? I hope so !~~
Hello Simon,
How are you doing?
I'm sorry for the late reply, but I had a few important commitments to pursue and so, I retired for a short of time, as I felt very afflicted after recent events in my family. I hope to hear soon from you.
Regards Jerome aka Bouquey (talk) 19:39, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results

Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content

Book review: Recent external reviews

Review essay: Nick-D on sourcing articles about bombing a battleship

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The Signpost: 22 July 2015

From the editor: Change the world

News and notes: Wikimanía 2016; Lightbreather ArbCom case

Wikimanía report: Wikimanía 2015 report, part 1, the plenaries

In the media: Novelists annotate Wikipedia; Wales promotes TPO; Working for free

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Stereotypes~~
~~I am from the U.K, with a Jewish heritage, which also culturally tends to be rather direct. Yet we seem to agree on a rather direct although not unpleasant initial approach.~~
Heh, I'm going to have to take you to task for this one. :) Isn't this dangerously bordering on an ethnic stereotype, such as the dreaded pusherke? We can easily make such ethnic, racial, or cultural stereotypes about anyone. In my experience, these things have more to do with social or economic status. I'll never forget going to a Jewish picnic in the 1970s where everyone was eating fried chicken and watermelon. Viriditas (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Welcome to my chaotic talkpage! You make an acute point User:Viriditas. But the nagging question remains. Were they 'directly' eating fried chicken and watermelon? ;) Irondome (talk) 12:15, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, they were, and so was I. Although I no longer eat meat, fried chicken and watermelon are delicious. It is sad that African Americans are stuck with this silly stereotype. I understand that they were traditional slave foods in early America, which is why the stereotype was perpetuated. In any case, aside from vegetarians, do you know anyone who dislikes fried chicken and watermelon? I sometimes have dreams about eating watermelon because it's so good. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I love both too. A bizarre stereotype which I was not aware of. How odd that it perpetuates to this time. It would seem a natural regional pairing, regardless of ethnicity. Irondome (talk) 13:57, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Community desysoping RfC~~
~~Hi. You are invited to comment at RfC for BARC - a community desysoping process.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:08, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Thanks for the alert Chris. It looks an interesting conversation, gaining some traction. Cheers! Simon Irondome (talk) 12:18, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
The Signpost: 29 July 2015

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Talk:Schutzstaffel#Time for a revamp!~~
~~Your opinion is requested. Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 23:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Ok Irondome (talk) 14:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Your laughing is requested at~~
'On a crowded bus, a mother was speaking to her son in Yiddish. An Israeli woman reprimanded her.'You should be speaking Hebrew. Why are you talking to him in Yiddish?' The mother answered.'I don't want he should forget he's Jewish.' Kirk Douglas, The Ragman's Son, 1988 p.203Nishidani (talk) 09:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is a beautifully subtle distinction which sadly, is not widely "got". That little passage captures it perfectly. The Latin and the "vulgar", the scholar and the milkman. It's good to hear from you Nish. Hope all's well! Simon Irondome (talk) 14:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well enough to mow the lawns, and harvest an abundant tomato crop, after a close call with an acute, extensively abscesed perforated appendix spilling over into a near lethal peritonitis, July 20th. I'd been put on a green code for some hours, not urgent, due to a certain clinical nonchalance in describing the symptoms as 'bearable', until I keeled over in the waiting room at 4 am. Pulled back to life by good quick butchers' hands an hour short of dancing the light fantastic off our little feverish stage. Only disappointment was that when asked to talk my way through the anaesthetic as they prepared the emergency surgery, I recited the wrote passage from the Odyssey in Greek, not the incipit to the Nekuia, as context would demand, but Book 1, before drifting off under the knife. Cheers, mate.Nishidani (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just back after some unavoidable off - line time. I missed your last comment Nish. Do be more careful with health matters! (I am the last one to nag..but..) You are needed here, the choir celestial can get along without you for a good few decades yet! Do take care and heal soon mate. Simon Irondome (talk) 14:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~More fun and festivities at No Gun Ri: now featuring at your local Arbcom!~~
~~It seems that we have an Arbcom case pending over No Gun Ri. I'd be honored to hear your input. GAB^Hello! 22:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
I greatly admire you for your efforts to improve the 'pedia and amazing tenacity GAB :). I fear this will never be resolved, or may end badly, so I am pulling back a little on this topic. My only suggestion (which I have not put out there) is that there be 2 articles. A "straight" NGR article, as we had, and an article directly addressing the AP and Mr Hanley's work. I fear Mr Hanley is too intimately involved to be NPOV on this, and Mr Weldneck is probably the same. I do not doubt for an instant any parties' GF. Just my 2p. Cheers! Simon Irondome (talk) 19:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
GAB I applaud your removed sense of cynicism. I feel it helps the digestion. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:52, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Irondome You really need to adjust your archive settings. Scrolling through your talk page is like scrolling through a Master's thesis. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good that you're back Tjw. Yeah I really need to find someone who I can persuade to fix it for me. Irondome (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Timothyjosephwood: I'm not quite sure if you were being sarcastic... If you were serious, then I need to say that I am becoming rather frustrated and cynical about this whole affair. If not, then point taken. @Irondome: This is actually an idea TJW and I considered earlier, although I think it's basically a POVFork right there. Still, good suggestion. GAB^Hello! 22:18, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Irondome and Timothyjosephwood: It seems as if we have closure in an unexpected way -- WeldNeck has been blocked as a sock. GAB^Hello! 16:47, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I genuinely didn't expect that! Irondome (talk) 17:41, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
GAB Wut? How did this come about? Timothyjosephwood (talk) 17:59, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Irondome and Timothyjosephwood: See here: [4] TDC's history includes edit-warring on pages related to U.S. war crimes, such as Winter Soldier Investigation. This editor's block log is insane. Most importantly, where do we go from here? GAB^Hello! 18:08, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

TDC was indeffed in 2008, WeldNeck first popped up in 2013. I'm astounded this stayed under the radar. Ironically, WeldNeck was suspected as a sock of Kauffner in 2013, but shown to be unrelated. TDC has a history on the NGR talk page. Out of curiosity, should we strike the NGR talk page comments of this whole sock family? GAB^Hello! 18:19, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think they should stay for the record GAB. For a sock, he occasionally made interesting points. I suppose we should carry on as usual. Irondome (talk) 18:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GAB, seems like unnecessary work to try to strike the record. Where to go from here? I still think the article probably needs vetting, it just might go more quickly. Weld was generally obstructionist, in addition to being an American apologist. Hanley is more productive, but generally has an anti-American slant (maybe even anti-Western, as tends to be popular in hip Western circles). Timothyjosephwood (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Roger that, in hindsight I regret ever suggesting striking the comments. This phase of work on the article will be... interesting, at least in a different sort of way. My primary concern is the use of Bateman, since Cjhanley will probably want to remove it, and I am not sure how I stand on it. GAB^Hello! 18:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I want Bateman to be included too. It provides a differing POV, and having the article a straight copy of Mr Hanley's research would not provide a voice for differing viewpoints. Bateman is a RS, and I think it's inclusion is essential. Irondome (talk) 19:17, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Signpost: 12 August 2015

News and notes: Superprotect, one year later; a contentious RfA

In the media: Paid editing; traffic drop; Nicki Minaj

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Wikimanía report: Wikimanía 2015, part 2, a community event

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:49, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~!vote~~
In programming languages it's a negation, e.g. '(not a) vote' . See: Exclamation mark. In our context because although the comments are numbered, consensus is measured on the strength of the arguments and not on a numerical tally. Well, that's the official version and the way it's supposed to be... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Thanks for clearing that up Chris, and explaining it so lucidly. Simon Irondome (talk) 17:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
Hi
Apologies about a quick edit on your post, but if that's M.'s real name we shouldn't put it out publicly. His user page is consistent with the Wikipedia name he uses, and you do know that his talk page will be stalked by those he has fought with. Let's not give out any real-world leads. Make sense? Thanks, and good to meet you. Randy Kryn 00:18, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It has been used by some of the arbs. However, I will def revert. Good to meet you too! Simon Irondome (talk) 00:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, cool. It's nice to see how much support Malik has here, and I hope he's kicking it up in the sun somewhere. Sometimes it's good to take a break from these inner-nest lands. Enjoy, and see you on the trail now and then. Randy Kryn 2:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
The Signpost: 19 August 2015

Op-ed: WP:THREATENING2MEN: The English Wikipedia's misogynist infopolitics and the hegemony of the asshole consensus

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Time of Eichman's death~~
This has been discussed before. Please look at the subject talk page, the time of death thread, and continue the discussion if you have new thoughts or ideas. Your colleague, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:15, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please give me good information about where to read relevant information, because nothing convincing was available at that place nor in the archive files.

If you do not agree with the "1 June" date, why do you leave that date in the infobox and on the first line of the article ?

Maybe it would be better to carry on that discussion on Eichmann's talk page.

Regards. --Gkml (talk) 22:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree with that. I suggest a new discussion thread, highlighting any concerns about contradictions with the timing in the article there. You raise a good point if there are inconsistencies in the text. I will participate of course. Merci for coming to discuss on my page. Regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results

Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content

Book reviews: Nick-D on the Second Schleswig War

Interview: Featured picture participants

Op-ed: TomStar81 on Indian nationalism during World War I

Timeline: This month in World War I

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
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~~Invitation to WikiProject TAFI~~

Hello, Irondome. You're invited to join WikiProject Today's articles for improvement, a project dedicated to significantly improving articles with collaborative editing in a week's time.
Feel free to nominate an article for improvement at the project's Article nomination board. If interested in joining, please add your name to the list of members. Thanks for your consideration. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah cheers for the invite. Signing up! Simon Irondome (talk) 21:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for joining! North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Signpost: 26 August 2015

In focus: An increase in active Wikipedia editors

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:59, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~This week's article for improvement (week 36, 2015)~~

A Old Colony Mennonite family observing the practice of plain dress

Hello, Irondome.
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:
Plain dress
Please be bold and help to improve this article!

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Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

The Signpost: 02 September 2015

Special report: Massive paid editing network unearthed on the English Wikipedia

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:07, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~This week's article for improvement (week 37, 2015)~~

Two high divers in mid-air

Hello, Irondome.
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:
High diving
Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Plain dress • Historic house

Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations

Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

~~Paul Reynaud~~
You censored my edits as not an improvement, even though (a) they explained Reynaud's flight from Bordeaux, (b) gave his ultimate intended destination, and (c) provided a precise location of the car accident that indirectly led to his imprisonment. Writing in too much haste, I concede I omitted the reference, but this was not cited as the reason. Of the article overall, I am surprised that it is only in this paragraph concerning the car accident that de Portes is mentioned, almost as an aside. As Reynaud's mistress of 10 years, she persistently attempted (on one occasion successfully) to interfere in the affairs of state, to the huge irritation of the French govt., Churchill (whom she once physically attacked), and de Gaulle. The reference omitted is: Pelayo, D. (2009) L'accident de Paul Reynaud. l'Agglorieuse. [5]. Regards, Ptelea (talk) 13:07, 7 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate you getting back to me on my talk page, and your constructive tone. I suggest you transfer the citation already existent on the HdP article regarding her death. That should cover it. I am well aware of Madame de Portes, having first read of her in Alistair Horne's excellent To Lose A Battle. France 1940, way back in 1980, and the great pen portraits of her he creates, and his impressions of her influence on M. Reynaud. I agree she did have great influence on Reynaud's state of mind, especially in the final days. I suggest you add the ref to the Reynaud article. That would improve it considerably. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 13:20, 7 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Signpost: 09 September 2015

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:00, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~September 2015~~
Hello, I'm Ogress. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Neoconservativism seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Your edit on Neoconservativism was removed for its antisemitic commentary. "Most" Jews are not Zionists. Ogress 00:31, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker): I don't think there's anything explicitly anti-Semitic about saying "Most Jews are Zionists," regardless of what statistics were used. The previous IP's rationale for making the edit ("the fascist political [sic] ideology of zionism") was clearly malicious, and a real exemplar of WP:TE. Just my two cents, feel free to ignore me. GAB^Hello! 01:28, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@User:OgressTotally agree with GAB above. Amazing Orwellian doublethink accusing a Jew who supports Jewish national identity, (most Jews being Zionist of one persuasion or another) of being anti semitic!!! Does your ideological fog not allow you to grasp the amazing hatred of the previous edit summary, and the incredible irony of accusing a Jew who supports self-determination (a universally accepted human right except for Jews, according to the far left and its fellow travelers, The far right, jihadists, who all in common use the noble term "Zionist" in a perverted form as a semantically politically correct cover of their racism) for Jews as being anti semitic? You are within a whisker of a personal attack. Irondome (talk) 12:22, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~This week's article for improvement (week 38, 2015)~~

Transection of a human head

Hello, Irondome.
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:
Head
Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: High diving • Plain dress

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Posted by: EuroCarGT (talk) 00:11, 14 September 2015 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions[reply]

~~NGR...again~~
We really could use some outside opinion on No Gun Ri Massacre. Hanley and I have been going back and forth and I'm not sure that we can forge a path forward without a third party. Give it a look see if you can. All the thanks. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 19:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Tjw. Good to hear from you. I will attempt to be helpful, without treading on any toes. I think it is as I originally feared though, no offence meant to any colleague. Irondome (talk) 19:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Originally feared? I've kindof taken over as the adversarial party since Weld got indeffed. It's a relatively minor dispute. But we can't reach consensus with only two people, especially when one (me) is trying to be intentionally adversarial for the sake of rhetoric. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) I wonder if Iryna Harpy and Wikimedes might also be interested... although I don't want to drag either back into this situation against their wishes. GAB^Hello! 20:23, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well its just turning from the weldneck version to mr. Hanleys version. I admire his expertise hugely, but I do worry that he has too much invested in the article. Emotionally and professionally. Irondome (talk) 20:32, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I contacted you two. WM has actively voiced their wishes to bow out of the conversation, and, AFAIK, Harpy just hasn't been as deeply involved, but I may be mistaken. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:33, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Given that Weld was indeffed for being a sock, and consistent disruptor of articles that may shame the US, and Hanley actually was there on the ground, I think it may be an improvement. What we have now is a relatively minor dispute about how the story of the event should be portrayed. It's an editorial issue. But we can't establish consensus with two people. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mr Hanley certainly seems much more reasonable and amenable to compromise than Weld ever was. Irondome (talk) 21:13, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Righto then. Some of the recent proposals have looked ok. Yes you have been playing devil's advocate Timothy, and very effectively :) Irondome (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) I haven't had time to respond to Mr Hanley's ping, nor engage in the article (much ado and cite checking on Eastern European subject matter as per usual), although I've set a myself a reminder to look over it. Going on instinct, I think Hanley is amenable to compromise, and am reminding myself of the fact that WeldNeck's long term disruption has left a residual bad taste bound to impact on him until he can learn to relax with reasonable editors. I'd prefer to stay in the wings and just observe unless I detect an overt attempt to turn the content into a POV, op-ed piece. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, my apologies for needless pings; I recognize that everyone has lots to do elsewhere, not even mentioning their actual lives. Things are proceeding exponentially better, that's for sure. Re-establishing the same atmosphere as other articles will take time. GAB^Hello! 21:59, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@GeneralizationsAreBad: Please, no need to apologise. I'm more than happy to be pinged if my input could be of use. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Short, but entertaining!~~
I'm in the process of recording a short film in which I perform a bunch of card tricks and flourishes that will air on my local television station. I'll also put it up on YouTube for the world to see. Here is some cool stuff I recorded shortly before we began shooting. Enjoy! :) Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 21:56, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~H.4 Hercules - See Also~~
Hi there, please see Andy Dingley's talk page, just checking if my interpretation of your comment ('no burning POV issues') is right in relation to adding Curtiss and Porte to the See Also section? Many thanks80.229.34.113 (talk) 09:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Happy Rosh HaShanah~~
Hope you'll forgive me for being tardy on this, I was away following with my sister the ancestral songlines of the family through Ireland's backwoods this week. Just got back, and haven't had time, since I don't think sleeping is a profitable way to tour, to catch up on forty thousand winks lost to Irish chowder and large pints of local beers. I did note your sensible intervention over at the Settleman Boomerang issue: I think any punitive measure is premature there (for him at least!). There are problems - apart from the POV clash of course, more or less a very extensive citation of policy without quite grasping the practical way it works. It's not looking well for him, so some, I'd say, informal consultancy with yourself might be enough as a resolution, perhaps offline, emails, etc. As soon as I get time I'll drop a note to that effect on the A/I page. Very good of you to offer your assistance. My best regards and I do hope you had as enjoyable a New Year's beginning in congenial company and environs as I did touring with my little boil and blister. Cheers mate.Nishidani (talk) 18:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I mentioned to a gardener in Kells one of my ancestor's names from south of that area and he said, 'Bejayzus, there's one of them up in Kilkenny now, and I've been thinken since I laid oiyes on ye, that yer 'is spitten image. Now ye woife 'ere .' 'Um, that's not my wife, mate. She's my sister.' (Silence) . .'Uh, oh, well I was goin to say something but . . .' 'Go ahead, I'm never embarrassed'. ' Well,' the man replied,'that she can't be ye sister, I mean, she's very preety, whereas you're loike ye relative here . .you knoow.. a greyt eccentric, but not quoite - -um . .handsum!'Nishidani (talk) 18:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nish. A happy and peaceful 5776 to you too! I am back, so the project can sleep soundly in its bunk/four poster bed/sleeping bag/flea pit, etc. Visited Chester, a remarkable example of an almost completely walled city, drowning in casually placed antiquities and artifacts. I noticed a strong civic pride. Tired, not happy to be back in Londinium and generally pissed off. Your supportive and positive comments on the AN were much appreciated. I am quite happy to quietly assist all parties, as always. Hope you are well mate, and you are fully recovered! The lacklustre user known to some as Simon. Irondome (talk) 00:47, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad to see you adding your voice to the Debresser tiff. It did look (it wasn't) like ganging up. I commented there because, honestly, I must have noticed Dovid overstepping 1R a dozen times this last year, and I can remembering notifying him 2 or 3 times quietly just to fix it. Often he won't, as recently. I gave him a week - no. Unlike I think several I/P editors I labour under the impression that I work well with D: Now I have problems with 1R, and after numerous cases, I finally hired Nableezy who has mastered its complexities, to look in everytime someone asks me to revert. Whatever call he makes, I follow. If he confirms a 1R violation I instantly revert. Often, as with Settleman's recent request on my page, he will decide in my favour. He is a stickler on this, and neutral. Dovid definitely need a 'Nableezy' like expert from 'his side'. Someone who can glance over the diffs and confirm or dismiss a charge he has broken IR, and whose judgement he trusts enough to follow the call. No need to discuss this here or reply and it is unrelated to the merits or not of H's case at EW, where I will not participate. Best regards from the at times irascible, weary bronchitis ridden Nishidani (talk) 10:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nish. I worry about your health at the moment. For Gd's look after yourself. I've recently just come out of a shite bronchial thing. You once, aeons ago it seems, said if you ever sounded different, I was to mention. Well I did, in the most dignified and sensitive manner I could. I also appealed for some sanity. I was somewhat moved to see you have put it on as a little reminded to yourself on your T/P. Please understand my motivations for raising it. I think we are both under the weather my old mate. As for the Dovid incident, again I attempted to make an overarching statement, a position if you like. I don't think it got through to anyone. I may not get further involved in I/P, as I do not think I am known or trusted enough. I like to think my NPOV is apparent, but at the mo I feel like leaving the project altogether. Merely due to incompetence and emotional immaturity. I will leave it to the grown ups maybe. Cheers Nish, I do hope you are feeling less rough. Your mate, Simon Irondome (talk) 15:13, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Simon! It's good to be what idioms dismisses as far too sensitive, particularly in this world. Unless you are, you miss everything. It has its costs of course. I feel, I once said, a lingering anguish if I step on a snail, and to avoid going to sleep with a sense of unease, I usually, with my wife, get a bucket and pick them off the gardens as the afternoon dwindles, and ferry them to safe uncultivated land nearby, so that I can make my usual saunter, to watch the stars come out or just look at the afterglow of dusk, without harming them, and (egotistically) my own self-consciousness. You are unfair to yourself, or to the way others perceive you. Your point registered with me. I'm not 'others' but I've found in your voice nothing but an intelligent decency. Illness, Thomas Mann taught my early adolescence, is conducive to heightened perceptiveness. If you leave, by all means do so serenely, for your own interests, wellbeing, etc., without thinking a withdrawal has anything to do with an imagined 'incompetence or immaturity'. I think you were a key to MM staying on board, and she may well prove to be a long term asset, whatever our differences. Take a break, then, mate, by all means. The only thing I ask is that, every few months, say round New Year, if you do, you drop a note to assure me things are going well with you. Best Nishidani (talk) 16:50, 29 September 2015 (UTC) [reply]
No, i'm not going anywhere Nish. I stay. I have run away from too many things in my past "R/L", and I try not to anymore. I will be the pest, the still small voice, reminding all colleagues, of whatever POV, if they transgress from the spirit of the project, and emotional intelligence. I shall also actively edit far more in the I/P realm. Please watch my back on this Nish, and I give you carte blanche to pull me up in whatever fashion you choose, if I screw up. Gnight me old mate. The heavily perspiring Simon, often known as Irondome (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015

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~~This week's article for improvement (week 39, 2015)~~

"Boy on white horse" by Theodor Kittelsen

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~~WikiProject Military history coordinator election~~
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Question~~
~~Does removal of long standing text in an article count as a revert? Settleman (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
No. That is an edit. A revert is an action where inserted material is removed, usually immediately after it has been added. Removal of "long standing" material however should be always justified in the article's talk page, to explain rationale and to gain consensus. Is this a hypothetical scenario? Simon Irondome (talk) 00:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~This week's article for improvement (week 40, 2015)~~

Personal finance – an example image of personal budget planning software

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~~Revert~~
Hi,
Thank you for you revert. If you don't mind can you join the talk?
It seems like the other editor is trying to push some fringe points of view. Xenon47 (talk) 11:34, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 41, 2015)~~

An example of musical composition – Scherzo in A flat (Borodin) Play^ⓘ

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~~This week's article for improvement (week 42, 2015)~~

Costumed performers from the 2006 Bristol Renaissance Faire

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The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015

Your Military History Newsletter

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~~Gatling gun~~
~~The problems with the statements there:~~
The Puckle Gun did not have a "rotating chamber mechanism," the rotation of the chambers was done by unscrewing the cylinder and then rotating it by hand. Comparing this to the design of the Gatling implies the Puckle Gun was in some way automated, which it wasn't.

The Gatling Gun was effectively a rack of bolt-action rifles which operated their actions as it rotated; this is far more than just multiple chambers.

The mitrailleuse can't really be compared to the Gatling since the multiple barrels did not have the same purpose; in Gatling's weapon each barrel was firing in a cycle which would generate heat, while the mitrailleuse had multiple barrels because it allowed more rounds to be loaded into the gun at once since it could not cycle by itself. Making a mitrailleuse overheat would be practically impossible since you simply couldn't change the block out quickly enough; if it had a single barrel it would just be a breech-loading rifle. In fact, the cluster of barrels close together in the mitrailleuse would actually result in more heat since it would diffuse from the central barrels to the outer ones.
The key difference between the Gatling and earlier weapons was that it had a cycle of function which allowed it to index and load cartridges through mechanical actions within the weapon, not just that it had a gravity feed. Herr Gruber (talk) 02:02, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the whole I agree with the majority of the above. However, was the Gatling gun a true Semi-automatic in the strictest, modern sense? It appears to be a gravity fed, mechanical manually operated weapon. I have no major POV on this, merely technical interest. If you wish revert, and start a new thread on the T/P. Regards, Simon Irondome (talk) 02:10, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, it's not semi-automatic, I just said "self-loading" when I meant to say "repeating." Herr Gruber (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ok. I get you now. Then it is just a question of minor rewording Irondome (talk) 02:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 43, 2015)~~

Ice hockey is an example of a team sport. Pictured is an 1893 ice hockey match at Victoria Rink, Montreal.

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~~Request your attention~~
Hi Simon,
May I gather your attention on the topic to the Equipment losses in World War II?
User Thaiduong123 persisting with disruptive edits for an edit-war. The editor is also enganging on revisionism to a cited content: 1, 2, 3, 4 - while the source for the tank exchange ratio is unambiguous: Zaloga, Ness: The Red Army Handbook 1939-1945 p. 118 (see image) Also, the additional table the editor have provided, seem to be very inadequate and incomplete.
Need your support, thanks. Regards Jérôme. Bouquey (talk) 15:54, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thaiduong123 appears to have withdrawn the revision to the cited content, apparently after my request to you and GBD: 1 However, the point to the disruptive edits still stands, how should I proceed? Thanks, regards Bouquey (talk) 12:29, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jerome, sorry I have been off-wiki for a while, just back. Don't do anything now is my advice. Looks like an edit conflict that self-resolved after the other party got the point. Hope all is well. What are you working on at present? Simon Irondome (talk) 15:34, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Simon, no need to apologize, it's okay. :) I felt a bit lost in case, as the other editor refused to talk. Either way, I'm glad that the conflict has resolved itself. I'm doing well, thank you for your concern. How about you?
You mean on WP? Well, I have a great affinity for modeling Japanese aircraft, because of that, I'll try my best to improve some articles, slowly but steady. However, thank you for your valuable advice. Best regards Jerome Bouquey (talk) 17:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~"After World War II, Boss was fined for his support of Nazism and was not allowed to vote"~~
Wait a God damn minute! The post-war German government strongly condemned the policies of Nazi Germany, but practiced the same laws on their enemies? The irony is so thick it makes me furious, furious I tell you! Jonas Vinther • (Click here to collect your price!) 21:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Jonas, what are you on about? But LOL, it sounds very ironically humourous :) Good to hear from you! Simon Irondome (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
~~Help with another editor~~
I am wondering if you can help me? I joined recently and unfortunately have had a rather bad experience when editing a certain page. Since I started trying to improve it I have been accused of various things: 'sock pupperty' and 'SPAs' among other things; had substantial new edits just deleted without discussion first, had relatively rude message left on my talk page and had various constructive changes blocked consistently without any meaningful discussion on the talk page. I am struggling really to understand this and I can't believe that it is a normal experience for a new user as I am sure that this project would have failed long ago if it was. I was just wondering if you would mind having a look at the page and the comments on my talk page and let me know what you think? Sorry to be a bother. Noah's_Ark_Zoo_Farm Thanks. Gloucestershiredad (talk) 19:22, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there. I apologise for the late reply. Unfortunately I have little to no knowledge of this area of interest, so I probably would not be of help. But some more general points; New editors do get additional scrutiny, especially if they are working in confined areas (it happened to me in my early days). It is nothing personal. Please read the guidance that I see has been placed at your disposal, try to widen your editing subjects a little, and do not get stressed. WP:AGF is probably the cement that holds this edifice together. Always keep it to the fore. I am sure, and certainly hope you stay, and become a permanenet member of the community. With kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 22:45, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 44, 2015)~~

Models promoting Zombieland at San Diego Comic-con. A zombie comedy is a horror comedy subgenre that involves zombies.

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~~Antoine de Saint-Exupéry~~
Hey. I reverted here because your previous revert of 50.5.87.37 was incomplete and had effectively re-added a second instance of the same image to the article. As I explained in my edit summary. I assume one instance of the image is enough. Do you want to fix it or should I? AtticusX (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I already fixed it, I self reverted. Strange I didn't see the duplication. Old age ;) Simon Irondome (talk) 02:43, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. It happens to the best of us. AtticusX (talk) 02:45, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2015)~~

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~~Carruthers copy paste from Wikipedia~~
~~Hey, if you have a chance, I'd like your opinion on the discussion here. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxRavenclaw (talk • contribs) 08:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2015)~~

Marie Serneholt at the 48th Guldbagge Awards.

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~~Response to "Panther edits".~~
I do not have time for discussions. My edits indicate the intentions and the summaries explain them further. If not understood, it is not my fault. The lead was so poorly written that I did not want to deal with its authors. They must learn from my edits... whether they can or it is difficult... obviously.--67.87.189.39 (talk) 06:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well IP, I would suggest you find the time from your busy schedule, a large part of which appears to be spent disrupting a lede which has been stable for over a year, with badly worded edits which do not reflect existing citations and your unsufferably arrogant edit summaries. Your English skills are sub-standard and your attitude to co-operation appears to be non- existent, indeed contemptuous. Both poor omens for your tenure here. Now I am going to clean up the mess you have made of the lede. Any further communication please confine to the Panther Talk Page. Irondome (talk) 20:17, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would ask you to discuss your edits at the Panther Talk Page. They are often sweeping and have re-inserted material that WP:CONSENSUS has determined it would be inadvisable to use. I would suggest you communicate to editing colleagues via the talk page rather than often hard to understand edit summaries. I appreciate your future co-operation in this collaborative work. Simon. Irondome (talk) 21:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2015)~~

A continuum of goods and services

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Goods and services
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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015

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~~This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2015)~~

Coffee production in Cuba – Robusta coffee beans at a coffee plantation in Viñales valley in Cuba

Hello, Irondome.
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Coffee production in Cuba
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~~Hey!~~
Corbyn won't win of course, but were he to, I would hope he'd show good sense in getting Ed Miliband as his Foreign Minister. Hope all's well, Simon. Not bothering to reply will signal things are going smoothly.:)Nishidani (talk) 14:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A response does not indicate profound crisis Nish, although I have had an indifferent fortnight. (Roughly translated, everyone is a bastard and they are all out to get me ;)) I think Ed resigned far too readily. As you say, Corbyn is unelectable and too idealistic to be in the world of Westminster politics. Cameroon et al have their feet firmly under the mace for the forseeable future. I have been reading with great interest the exchanges on Talk, Jews. You should not give up on it. The quality is improving somewhat. Yours aye! Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~ACE2015~~
Hi, Irondrome. Thank you for your confidence. Does this mean you will be publishing a voter guide? Personally I think however that the mass canvassing this year is going to do more harm than good and will dilute the genuine , well considered votes. If Ive understood correctly , there were over 1,500 votes cast in the first 24 hiurs. On another note, something we discussed a while back, are you ready to go ahead? Now might be a good time both practically and politically. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Always good to "see" you here Chris. My views on a proportion of candidates may not translate well into a formal voter guide on WP. Therefore, regrettably I shall leave that task to others. There are several incisive guides already in circulation. I am basing my vote on a mixture of research, guides and some recent events. I believe the mass canvassing and the high turnout are somewhat co-incidental. I believe recent events have "politicised" many thoughtful volunteers of good standing and respectable tenure. From your reading of my "performance" here, and in terms of attitude and temperament, do I pass your RfA criteria? Frankly, I have nothing to lose, and even a failed run will not destroy me. The feedback would be invaluable. That is not a yes, but a provisional acceptance of the concept. I am aware that the potential window may be brief however. Simon Irondome (talk) 01:58, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Check your goddamned email!!! --Monochrome_Monitor 04:06, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
MONGO happy to support Rfa if that happens but usually wait until lots of supports...if MONGO support too early, drive many sane people away. Also, in humble opinion, talk page archiving needed to avoid page crashes.--MONGO 18:36, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You right MONGO but I can't fix. I screwed up archive settings and don't know how to fix. Think much early evidence of what a dumb plonker Irondome was in early months may be lost to history, and the amusement of others. A disaster for seasoned twatwatchers and those interested in their evolution. V kind MONGO, but i dunno. Too softhearted methinks sometimes. Glad MONGO got beer :) Irondome (talk) 18:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I usually just do a copy paste to an archive page...that's not the way to do it but it works for me and no complaints.--MONGO 20:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2015)~~

The First Geneva Convention (1864) is one of the earliest formulations of international law.

Hello, Irondome.
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:
International law
Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: Coffee production in Cuba • Goods and services

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Posted by: MusikBot ^talk using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

~~Request for assistance~~
Hello Irondome,
I'm new to Wikipedia editing so I hope I'm doing this the correct way. I feel like I'm being harassed/attacked by two people with respect to an article where I am trying to make what I consider to be a small addition (a one or two-paragraph sub-heading). The individuals involved don't seem to be interested in reaching consensus; they seem to be interested in shutting me down. They also repeatedly threaten to 'take action' against me for edit warring, whereas I believe that their constant and wholesale reversion of (literally) anything that I write is in itself an edit war.
You have many kudos for diplomacy and whereas I am certainly capable of being diplomatic (and in fact worked as a 'diplomat' in my nation's embassy for a time), I am considerably less so when I feel I'm being threatened. I would be happy to discuss the situation with those involved, but it appears that they have no interest in doing so and that their goal is to 'win'. I've also realized that they know very little about the subject in question - they recite 'facts' as to why their view should prevail, however their 'facts' are wrong. I feel very much put upon and the issue has become rather upsetting.
I do feel that the persons involved have some sort of connections and emotional, or possibly political, involvement with the subject as their reactions (to me) seem entirely out of proportion to issue involved. However I don't like being bullied, which is why I'm not willing to just walk away and say 'never mind'.
Anyway, I hope that you can help me get this straightened out. If you don't have time right now I understand, please try to let me know if that's the case. The reason I'm asking you rather than someone else is that your offer to volunteer was one of most recent (I believe third-newest) so I believe that you are more likely to be available than someone who wrote several years ago, you seem multi-faceted, and you don't appear to have any overt political or philosophical biases (even though I don't feel the instant matter is or should be controversial, the very strong dislike I feel coming from the other parties makes me believe that there's some underlying reason other than disliking the two brief paragraphs I added to the article).
The situation as brief as I can make it: The matter involves a Wikipedia article named "Newton Public Schools". It is about a school district in Newton, Massachusetts, U.S. The schools that comprise the district are state-supported (called 'public schools' in the U.S.; I believe however that term has a different meaning in the U.K).
Most of the article is standard and innocuous; however there is a section at the end called "Controversies" which is the source of the problem. There were three sub-headings to the "Controversies" section; I have been trying to add a fourth; I also made minor changes in one or two of the other sub-headings so that they accurate.
The headings are:
1. Textbook controversy - the issue as to whether supplemental material used by high school students in history courses is inaccurate, biased, or anti-Israel has been an ongoing controversy in the community for several years. It has been the subject of newspaper articles and a "Call for Action" by Jewish, community, and education groups and has been the subject of media reports in several U.S. states and in Israel. (I think there were three or four sentences in this section). Also, in an unusual move, the district removed a widely used supplemental text and also removed items from a list of recommended sources.
2. Superintendent Plagiarism - the district's superintendent was found to have plagiarized a speech he gave during a high school graduation ceremony and was fined. In another district where this happened, the superintendent was forced to resign. (I believe there were two sentences).
3. Violation of State Open Meeting Laws - in connection with the plagiarism, the state Attorney General (government prosecutor) found that the school district and Chair of the School Committee violated state law on eight separate occasions. (I think three sentences).
all of the above, plus the events in the fourth section below occurred within a few months of each other.
4. Last year, the state Department of Education found that the district and Chair of the School Committee had engaged in illegal retaliation against a student whose parent had been involved in the textbook issue. As far as can be ascertained, this is the first time in state history that a standing administrator has been found to have violated education law (in this case, student confidentiality law). A federal investigation is ongoing.
I have just realized that the other editors have deleted a post I made in the 'Talk' section of the article and also deleted the last six months of History for the article. This is beyond outrageous.
This is the last couple of posts (including mine) from the Talk section:
~~All of the above still applies~~
Nuff said? Any further editing of the article on this subject without gaining a consensus for your inclusion first Will be dealt with. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 01:01, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~You are incorrect, bullying and appear to have extreme bias and possibly personal and/or political motivations for your actions~~
YOU appear to be engaging in an edit war to keep out information which has been the subject of articles throughout the United States and overseas. Here are just a few examples from blogs which reach readers throughout the U.S. (i.e. Atlas Shrugged, anti-semitism.net) as well as overseas:
Articles Directly Relating to the Retaliation:
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2015/01/school-retaliates-against-student-for.html
https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/massachussetts-school-retaliates-against-student-for-parents-opposition-to/
http://www.anti-semitism.net/?s=%22Parents+for+Excellence%22
http://pamelageller.com/2015/01/massachusetts-school-retaliates-against-student-for-parents-opposition-to-pro-islam-anti-israel-propaganda.html/
There are also dozens of articles written about the successful effort by the parents of the student who was retaliated against to remove inaccurate and biased class material. The bias of these materials has been the subject of articles and reports from major Jewish, education, and media organizations including the Anti-Defamation League, American Jewish Congress, Committee on Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), Jewish Telegraph Agency, Fordham Foundation, Textbook League, Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, Verity Educate (which published a 153-page report on the matter), etc.
You may not consider the ADL, CAMERA, Fordham Foundation (a major education policy leader), the AJC, or similar organizations to be "important", but that's just one person's opinion. Literally millions of others disagree.
There are currently two local organizations addressing the textbook and retaliation controversies, as well as the national organizations mentioned above. This is hardly an issue that has been 'scarcely mentioned outside of the local area'.
The fact that school officials have broken the law to retaliate against a high school student for his/her parent's objection to inappropriate class materials (which in fact the Superintendent agreed with, as the material was later removed) is just as relevant, or even more so, than a superintendent's plagiarism or the violation of open meeting laws. It is directly related to the Textbook Controversy which you accept is a legitimate part of the article.
Neither a a superintendent's plagiarism or the violation of open meeting laws have any direct effect on students. Retaliation against a student, however, has major repercussions on both the student and the school community as a whole. Certainly it is just as worthy, if not more so, for inclusion in this article.
As well, your tone is inappropriately hostile and bullying: "Nuff said?" "will be dealt with" are attempts to belittle and threaten which are inappropriate in editing a Wikipedia article. The inaccurate and false claims that I am engaging in an edit war, when you have reverted numerous edits wholesale without any attempt to explain your reasoning, is inverting the facts. The same is true of previous edits which were being reverted while I was still in the process of editing. It is obvious that your edits are not being made in good faith as you have made no attempt at all to engage with me other than threats.
The Retaliation issue has been considered and adjudicated by a state agency, and two federal agencies are also investigating the matter. Being the subject of a federal investigation is hardly a trivial matter. I did not include that fact in the article because I believed that doing so before a judgement was reached would be prejudicial; however since you apparently need 'proof' that the issue is an important one, I will include it in my next edit to make you happy.
Additional articles regarding events related to the Retaliation (a limited number, as I don't want to spend all night copying URLs):
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/187870
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-newton-public-schools-pro.html
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2014/6/13/anti-israel-text-remained-in-schools-longer-than-officials-let-on-research-shows
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_email.cfm/blog_id/52473/Boston-Jewish-Leadership-caught-in-deception-over-Newton-Schools-disputed-texts
http://www.heritagefl.com/story/2013/04/19/news/adl-downplays-controversy-over-anti-israel-texts-in-curriculum-of-newton-mass/562.html
SurfRI (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(there's one or two more paragraphs but apparently I didn't copy all of them).
(end of what I posted, which was deleted by an unknown person an hour later)
You won't see all of the above on the 'Talk' page because someone deleted not only my post but some of the more obnoxious/bullying posts prior to that. They also deleted the last six months of the History section. People aren't allowed to do that, are they?
This has gone beyond crazy. I'm sure people aren't supposed to just delete people's posts on the Talk page or parts of the History page. I'm going to take a screenshot of what's there now (it includes the above post which I made a couple of hours ago) so I have some evidence.
What can I do about this? This really and truly insane. Is this common in Wikipedia (I'm assuming not)?
BTW, another editor intervened (informally) in July and cited a lot of 'facts' which aren't true; he came down very heavily on the side of the people who deleted my posts (including some that I was still writing at the time) and did not seem to be interested in resolving the issue or being neutral at all.
Obviously, I really need some help.
Thanks, SurfRI
(talk) 04:25, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hello SurfRI. It is not usual for editors to delete talk page posts unless there is obvious trolling, severe personal attacks, or obvious vandalism. A mere disagreement of opinion would not warrant any deletions. From the material you have posted, one editor appears to be at least attempting to constructively engage, although highlighting a host of guidelines may not be helpful in itself. The other appears to be adding nothing to the debate and should disengage. As this is at the moment, (and I would like it to stay that way) a minor content dispute, I suggest you take this matter to WP:DRN where neutral, uninvolved editors will give their opinions as to be best way forward. I hope this helps at this stage. Regards Irondome (talk) 20:59, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Archiving~~
(talk page stalker) Hey there, I've just noticed that you used the cut-and-paste method wrongly as your archive box is actually an automatic archive parameter. So, it will not work. If you need help, ask someone who is good at these things, like administrators. :) Vincent60030 (talk) 15:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Thanks Vincent60030 Irondome (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]~~
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~~This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2015)~~

Princess Leia with characteristic hairstyle cosplayed.

Hello, Irondome.
The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:
Princess Leia
Please be bold and help to improve this article!

Previous selections: International law • Coffee production in Cuba

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~~Of fools ... and cabbages and kings~~
Re: this. You cannot possibly make a fool of yourself by creating an article. The fact that we have 5 million is proof of that ;) Give me a shout if you need some help. I remember Berni Inns in a vague sort of way and there was a very recent TV programme that sort-of mentioned them. Of course, back then, my parents were too poor and I was too young to take advantage of the offerings - the programme may have been right in proposing that they were at the forefront of a democratisation of "new" and even "exotic" experiences, and of eating-out in general, but I think that their clientele was pretty, um, stratified in its own right. It floated their (melon) boat but the likes of my family didn't even get to the harbour. Happy days! - Sitush (talk) 02:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I had better start creating content then! I assume stubs are acceptable, and I can develop them. "From little acorns" etc. I have about a dozen in mind intially, from the sublime to the banal, but amusing for all that. Melon boat anecdote avoided ;) Your encouraging note from such a great creator is much appreciated. Simon Irondome (talk) 02:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Of course stubs are acceptable. The primary criteria is the same as always; GNG, V and RS. There are many, many people here who are better content creators than I will ever be but we've all got to start somewhere and I don't think we ever stop learning. You can pretty much guarantee that all of those who regularly commented on Eric's talk page are among that group, and I can't think of one who wouldn't be willing to help. We're supposed to be all in this together. Except, alas, sometimes lately it seems like we're not! - Sitush (talk) 03:26, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have become very aware of that in the past months Sitush, those who want to create a unique, academically respected on-line work, and those who wish to essentially hijack many core subject areas for reasons of political activism, and create a politically correct atmosphere enforced by the occupation of key posts. A climate of fear for free thinking colleagues is developing. Social experiments have no place here. My voting choice attempted to "make a difference" in that respect. I fear for the future of the project, unless it returns to its core mission. I genuinely wish to add to content, and again, your words are greatly appreciated. I shall act on them. Regards, Irondome (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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~~Content~~
Just here to vent... In any case, there were 38 total Waffen-SS divisions, while the Wehrmacht fielded, what, around 800 (?). So why does 12th Panzer Division (Wehrmacht) gets one paragraph, while Hitlerjugend, that fought for less than a year, gets 10 pages of fluff, drama and "Neo-Nazi idea of literary style" (as you so elegantly put it), including many paragraphs on "formation and training" alone? That paragraph on the competition for the insignia was even longer before, BTW.
Thankfully, the HJ fanboy content was intermingled with some well-researched copy from English-speaking historians, proving some 'back-to-reality' relief. Well, anyway, the struggle continues. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Editing~~
~~Could you edit the page 2010 in film in this way; see this:~~
Highest-grossing films of 2010^[1]
Rank Title Studio Worldwide gross

1. Toy Story 3 Walt Disney Pictures / Pixar $1,063,171,911

2. Alice in Wonderland Walt Disney Pictures $1,025,467,110

3. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1 Warner Bros. $960,283,305

4. Inception Warner Bros. / Legendary $825,532,764

5. Shrek Forever After Paramount / DreamWorks $752,600,867

6. The Twilight Saga: Eclipse Summit Entertainment $698,491,347

7. Iron Man 2 Paramount / Marvel Studios $623,933,331

8. Tangled Walt Disney Pictures $591,794,936

9. Despicable Me Universal / Illumination $543,113,985

10. How to Train Your Dragon Paramount / DreamWorks $494,878,759
Did you understand what I am saying; I am asking to edit this page according to this way. I would ask you to edit pages 2011 in film and 2012 in film in this way.I have already talked about this in talk pages but no ones cared about it (see:Talk:2010 in film,Talk:2011 in film and Talk:2012 in film ) and they didn't do anything.I can not edit these three pages because these are semi-protected, but you can.User talk:2.86.255.196

~~^ "2010 Worldwide Grosses". Box Office Mojo. Retrieved February 13, 2012.~~