Talk:Cadillac Fleetwood

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There needs to be ONE Article covering 60 Special, Fleetwood, Fleetwood 60 Special, Fleetwood Brougham, Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham, and Fleetwood. All of these names refer to the SAME model over time (with the partial exception of the FWD abominations of 1985-1992-93). Cadillacmike (talk) 14:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Slaughter of 1997

I removed a reference to the supposed "slaughter of 1997", as the article created on that subject was previously deleted as unverifiable material. -Colin Kimbrell 15:42, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nomenclature

there is an error in this article. the RWD D-body car wasn't simply known as "cadillac brougham" from 87-92, it was called "fleetwood brougham" right up until the redesign in 1993. the front wheel drive fleetwood and deville were also still produced in 1993. the fleetwood name was also used on some special deville based FWD limos in 1998.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.117.56.201 (talk) 20:32, 25 October 2006

This is not an error. The "Fleetwood" name was only used on the FWD C-body version from 1987 to 1992. The RWD D-body car was called simply "Brougham" during those years. In 1993, the "Fleetwood" was ONLY used on the RWD D-body car. It's confusing, I know, but check your Cadillac sales literature from those years. weetbixkid 03:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency in style

Is it d'Elegance or D'Elegance (or perhaps something else)? Whichever it is, the article should use one convention throughout. --Schnaz 21:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Generation X Wheelbase

The 1971-1976 Cadillac Fleetwood did not share its chassis with the Calais/Deville. Its wheelbase was actually 133 inches long. Furthermore the wheelbase of the 1971-1976 Fleetwood 75 was 151.5 inches long.--Sadowski (talk) 02:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Improvements

Hello everyone

I am starting a clean up project on this article and will making comprehensive modifications and additions to this article. Senators^{Talk | Contribs} 10:56, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fleetwood is a Coachbuilder for Cadillac and not a Series of Cadillac.

This is the fundamental problem with this webpage. There's no such thing as a Cadillac Fleetwood. Over time I'm going to attempt to rewrite this page and the Fleetwood Brougham page and I expect huge resistance. That's why I both removed/introduced Fleetwood nomenclature on other pages, in a vain effort to open your eyes.

This will take some time. But I'm patient. History and the facts will win out.

Sadowski (talk) 05:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would recommend reaching consensus before engaging in something which, as you are already aware, will meet resistance. I would suggest making a minimum of disruptive edits until you have some support, and taking such a combative stance as this is not the best way of going about it. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure what you are trying to change? ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃ (talk) 18:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've Already done it. According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1976-1999 there was in fact a Cadillac Fleetwood and Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham series during 1977-1996 only. I've made the initial changes to accord with those facts.

Sadowski (talk) 04:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So according to just one source you eliminate a whole series of models? What about American Cars of the 1960s By John Gunnell, which discusses the Fleetwood Brougham in the 65, 68 and 69 model years? What about Standard Catalog of Cadillac 1903-2005 by John Gunnel, which has extensive coverage of Fleetwood models in the 1960s and 1970s - models that were eliminated in your edits? This definitely needs further discussion - your reasons are unclear right now. --Biker Biker (talk) 04:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Fleetwood models you allude to are already covered by their respective series. This was all duplicate content and it is rather confusing. There was only one separate Cadillac Fleetwood series and that was from 1985-1996. Does Gunnell contradict any of the things I have said? If so he is completely wrong. (Personally I think you need to totally reread Gunnell.) I shall refer you to any of the Cadillac data books from the period, which the Krause Publications Standard Catalogs of American Cars have meticulously researched. I am changing things back. Thank You.

Sadowski (talk) 06:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've inserted new content to make my case more clear. This contributes 27 out of the 32 existing references (all great reading). I shall persevere until this page ultimately reflects the truth. If this struggle takes days, weeks, months or years I shall be here. Thank You.

Sadowski (talk) 07:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I made a modest change tonight. If you like the changes I've made to Fleetwood Brougham you should like the changes I'll make to Fleetwood.

Sadowski (talk) 06:04, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I made drastic changes since last night. Personally I like the look of it.

Sadowski (talk) 06:36, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The entire Fleetwood set of articles is completely disjointed. The naming isn't even correct. The Fleetwood name ALWAYS came BEFORE the series number. It was always Fleetwood Series 60 Special not the other way around, and the same goes for the Brougham options, e.g. Fleetwood Brougham, or Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham. There was also only one model line from the late 50s up to 1985 when the front wheel drive split off of the C body came. From 1985-1992 there were both FWD and RWD "Fleetwood" models. Confusing to say the least. but later unified as RWD for the last four years (1993-96)as Fleetwood with an optional Brougham package.

Someone with catalogs and / or Cadillac model reference material needs to sort through these disjointed articles and bring them together under a SINGLE article that should be named "Cadillac Fleetwood, 60 special, and Brougham", because these all refer to the SAME car model at different points in time and sometimes were used together (and for a short period, 1971-76, all three names were used for the one model in the lineup. I have brochures from 1964-2013 to verify this and have the material from 1958-63 showing the model naming of the various cars.

Instead of citing books written many of which contain errors, how about reading the original Cadillac service sales and marketing documents. If you do you will notice that the Fleetwood series goes back to at least 1964 when it was superimposed on the existing ElDorado and 60 Special models. Some time later (in the 1970s Eldorado was separated from the Fleetwood series thus going back to the 4 door sedan only.

The breakdown in Series and model names by year range:

1930s (or 40s) thru mid-late 50s there was one model, the "60 Special". During parts of this time it had a separate longer wheelbase and at other times the same wheelbase as DeVilles & series 62.

From about 1957 or so thru 1965: "Fleetwood 60 Special", thru 1964 same WB as DeVilles, in 1965 separate longer WB, also a Brougham "Option Package" was offered in 1965, but it was NOT a separate model (there was only one sales code of "M").

1966-1970: Fleetwood 60 Special OR Fleetwood Brougham (sales code M or P)

1971-76: Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham. This was the only time that all three "names (Fleetwood, 60 Special, and Brougham) were all used together).

1977-1984: Fleetwood Brougham

1985-1992 Split between FWD 60 Special and RWD Fleetwood Brougham and / or Brougham. This was the ONLY time that the model name "Brougham" was used Without Fleetwood being in front of it.

1993-96: RWD Fleetwood with "Brougham" option package, but not a separate model. I believe there was one final year, 1993, for the front wheel drive "60 Special" model, but it didn't have Fleetwood in front of it. I don't have the catalogs in frnt of me but I have them (ALL of them).

And lastly, Fleetwood WAS a coach builder for Cadillac, but was acquired and became a division of GM before WW2. The Fleetwood body plant made all Fleetwood bodies up to and including 1970. I had a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham and its body plate and door sills had "Body by Fleetwood" on them. Fleetwood also made the all leather interiors of DeVilles and ElDorados in the 1960s. My 1968 DeVille Convertible is one of them.

Cadillacmike (talk) 14:19, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

literature

Milton, a character in Middlesex by Eugenides, drives a car named Fleetwood (by Cadillac as it is told). --13Peewit (talk) 15:53, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]