Talk:Al-Khwarizmi

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Archives: 1 2

footnotes all messed up

The footnotes are misnumbered, and the links between them don't work. It's confusing enough that I'm not going to try to fix them, but someone with experience with the article should try to sort it out. --jacobolus (t) 19:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was he Arab or Persian? Does it really matter?

This man was not famous for his ethnicity, he was famous for his amazing accomplishments throughout his life. I suggest we just remove both and replace it with something like "Middle Eastern". This article has seen too many edit wars over something very trivial. —Khoikhoi 22:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When we say that he was an Arab, we aren't stressing ethnicity but rather the fact he was one of the great scientists in the dominating Arab culture of that time. To call him a Persian is as wrong as calling Dwight D. Eisenhower a German just because of his origin as was pointed out by the famous German orientalist Sigrid Hunke. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sultanio (talk • contribs) 22:35, 16 September 2006.

The problem is that the Arab article is indeed about the Arab ethnicity, not just about Arab culture in general. —Khoikhoi 22:41, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So by this logic we would have to edit the first line in Eisenhower's article to "Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower (October 14, 1890 – March 28, 1969) was a German soldier and politician.". But clearly no sane person would do that. Sultanio 22:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't quite follow you...are you happy with just saying he was Muslim? —Khoikhoi 22:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would be fine with that even though the fact that he wrote all the books he is famous for in Arabic and under the service of the Caliph should be sufficient to also consider him an Arab.Sultanio 22:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That would make him Arabized, but not necessarily an Arab. ;-) My great-great grandfather spoke Hungarian, but wasn't ethnically Hungarian, he was Jewish. —Khoikhoi 23:03, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So what is the result of Arabization if not becoming an Arab? After all that's why people living in countries like Egypt, Marocco, Algeria, Sudan etc. are called Arabs. Besides, Karl Marx was also of Jewish origins, but will anyone complain if we call him a German economist? I don't think so. Sultanio 23:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever. These nationalistic claims over historic figures get a bit much after awhile. —Khoikhoi 23:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please Check the archives, you will find your answer that there is no doubt he was not an Arab. One of his title was al-majusi (magian) referring to his zoroastrian ancestors. [1]. I do not want to go through the archives again.. --alidoostzadeh 01:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neither do I. ;-) —Khoikhoi 01:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know the arthive is long. :) The full version of Encyclopedia Britannica says Muslim. But anyways here is a summary of the archives. After consulting with Academics that do work in Islamic Mathematical History (which is a very specialized field and the most relavent and there are not too many mathematical historians in the first place and amongst them a minority does research in Islamic mathematical history) the truth was determined. We had a moderator who was assigned to the entery and he after doing careful research and examination and also corresponding with the relavent Professors, decided the case [2]. --alidoostzadeh 02:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but this is plain ridiculous. His name does by no means prove that he was a Persian, but rather that originally his family came from a certain region that belonged to the fallen Persian empire. At the time of Al-Khwarizmi the Persian empire was already history. There was no such thing as Persia anymore. But let me try to give you another more current example. The father of the Islamic scholar [[Muhammad Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee]|Muhammad Nasir ud deen al-Albaanee] was given that name Al-Albani when he emigrated from Albania to Syria. His son inherited the name and was henceforth also known as Al-Albani just like the whole family. Still today his children who have nothing to do with Albania bear this name. Therefore the Arab name itself is not sufficient to declare a person a non-Arab. The only thing that we can notice from his name is that it is completely Arabic. And furthermore the only thing that can not be denied is the fact that he wrote all of his famous books in Arabic and in Bagdad and under the service of the Caliph and in the time when the Persian empire had become history.

Let me go even further and ask what justifies him calling a Persian mathematician at all? Is it because that region of today's Uzbekistan - the alleged birthplace of Al-Chwarizmi - once belonged to the historical Persian empire? But then at the time of Al-Chwarizmi, this Persian empire had ceased to exist and the whole region became part of the new Islamic empire ruled by the Arabs. So even this alleged birthplace (for which there is no proof) fell under the "Arabic empire". So why is it ok to call all the people of that region that at some time belonged to the Persian empire Persians, even if they don't belong to same race and even if this empire has long fallen under Arabic leadership? Sultanio 09:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]