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Merge discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Merged (c. 2010) --KarlB (talk) 04:42, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It definitely seems like this article should be merged with both Republic of Spanish Haiti and Haitian invasion of the Dominican Republic. LegalSkeptic 15:50, 27 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legalskeptic (talk • contribs)

  • Support. To be sure, no two of them refer to exactly the same thing. One article refers to the short-lived country, another refers to the invasion of that country, and this one refers to the occupation that ensued. But each article is very small, and their subjects closely related enough that their contents should be placed in one article, for the benefit of readers. Should that article grow to the point where subarticles become necessary, then these should be recreated. SamEV (talk) 18:46, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re: Support Exactly. Unless someone comes along with much more information, it would be better to have one pretty good article than three tiny ones. I'll allow a few more days to see if anyone objects, and then I'll proceed. LegalSkeptic 17:10, 28 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Legalskeptic (talk • contribs)
    Very well. SamEV (talk) 17:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Good job, Legalskeptic!
    That's unusual, though: two infoboxes in the same article? Did you mean to do that? SamEV (talk) 22:23, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

you have merged the Hatian invasion article with another article for no reason. You are making light to a massacre of thousands of Dominican men women and CHILDREN with a convenient title you placed such as : of a unification of hispanola`. THERE WAS NEVER ANY UNIFICATION OF ISLANDS Dominican Republic was INVADED by haiti and there people unwillingly. PLEASE unmerge the two articles the unification of hispanola is a disrespectful title for such a horrible INVASION and MURDERS of Dominican people at that time!190.166.157.141 (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unmerge

Fwiw, there's no problem merging the [second] Haitian invasion here since it is in fact the same topic. The Republic of Spanish Haiti, on the other hand, should be restored as a separate article, even as a stub, for numerous reasons. It is not a service to the readers to hide discussions of sovereign states in the middle of historical articles about provinces in other countries. It's not a paper encyclopedia and you can freely link there from here: there's no reason to be so stingy about namespace. It also mucks with linking from various projects like former states in the Americas. -LlywelynII (talk) 13:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm averse to the restoration of the Spanish Haiti article because it was the work of a terribly anti-Dominican editor who was editing as a sockpuppet. Shouldn't it be enough that the short-lived country is covered in the Dominican Republic and "History of the Dominican Republic" articles? SamEV (talk) 23:39, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

someone has merged the Hatian invasion article with another article for no reason. You are making light to massacre of thousands of Dominican men women and CHILDREN with a convenient title you placed such as : of a unification of hispanola`. THERE WAS NEVER ANY UNIFICATION OF ISLANDS Dominican Republic was INVADED by haiti and there people unwillingly. PLEASE unmerge the two articles the unification of hispanola is a disrespectful title for such a horrible INVASION and MURDERS of Dominican people at that time!190.166.157.141 (talk) 14:31, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Haitian occupation didn't begin in 1822

Article needs some sourcing and discussion about the first occupation during the Napoleonic Wars & the fairly messy way it fell out of Haiti's dominion the first time. -LlywelynII (talk) 13:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about sourcing. But this article is about the second invasion because that's by far the more important one; AFAIK, it's the default when there's mention of Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo or the Dominican Republic. But a disambiguator could be added to the title, so it becomes "Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo (1822–1844)". SamEV (talk) 23:39, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

it was the HATIAN INVASION AND MURDERS OF THE PEOPLE OF SANTO DOMINGO! please unmerge the two articles there is a reason why our history books and our main article had the hatian invasion listed as the title! someone is trying to make light of thousands of murders of Dominican kids men and women by the hands of hatians! UNMERGE THE ARTICLES PLEASE AND PLACE IT BACK ON THE MAIN ARTICLE AS IT WAS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.166.157.141 (talk) 14:38, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

An editor keeps adding irrelevant links, specifically "Parsley Massacre - Trujillo's Massacre of Haitians", United States occupation of Haiti, and United States occupation of the Dominican Republic.

How are they immediately relevant to this invasion and occupation, any more than to the entire Haitian-Dominican relationship ever since? I.e. the point is not that there's no connection whatsoever, but rather: how is there a special one linking to these events and not to others? It is especially puzzling that the US occupation of Haiti is included. SamEV (talk) 02:29, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apparent POV

The first paragraph of the Invasion section appears very much at odds with the rest of the article.

Before this paragraph it says how much Haiti was afraid that France would invade it, after which it immediately jumps into how much Santo Domingo was afraid that Haiti would invade it (?!), with the para after THAT then going on to say how happy most people were that Haiti occupied SD.

Here is the out-of-place para –

The Dominicans were at serious disadvantage if they were to prevent the Haitian invasion. Mainly, they had no military forces whatsoever, their population was eight to ten times less than Haiti's, and the economy was stalled. Haiti, on the other hand, had formidable armed forces, both in skill and sheer size, which had been hardened in nearly ten years of repelling French soldiers, local colonialists, and military insurgents. The racial massacres perpetrated in the later days of the French-Haitian conflict only added to the determination of Haitians to never lose a battle.

Either further explanation is needed as to WHY there was so much fear in SD, or else it feels like there may be some antihaitianismo POV pushing going on? BigSteve (talk) 08:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Two years too late but, the Haitians performed the racial massacres to whites on the Spanish speaking side. The fear is the reasoning for the massacres (genocide?). According to The Dominican Republic: A National History by Frank Moya Pons, an expert on Dominican history, the Haitians believed that it was in the white man's nature to subjugate and enslave black people, therefore the island must be rid of them to ensure their liberty and sovereignty. Obviously I'm paraphrasing but that is the gist of it. The French also perpetrated atrocities against the Haitians, in the form of institutionalized slavery and their attempts to smother the revolution by the Haitians. The Dominican side (eastern side, Santo Domingo) was and has always been more racially heterogeneous and eurocentric than Haiti. So that explains the why Santo Domingo didn't want to be occupied. The Haitian side was wholly against European influences for fear of subjugation. The Haitian history is inseparable from fear of returning to slavery, the Pearl as it was referred to, was a death camp for African slaves that were exploited to make sugar and as a result the French Empire wealthy.

--El Mayimbe (talk) 14:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

can you please unmerge the two articles that were merged by someone making fun of Dominican history . The Hatian invasion in Dominican republic is a seperate a legit article that was originally on the countrys main article page someone merged it and changed the title to make fun of a very dark time and massacres of thousands of men women and children just for being white hispanics in a time where there was no more slavery. the person who made these huge changes was anti Dominican and abusing there power please unmerge the two articles and place the correct one.148.101.133.119 (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 January 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 00:10, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unification of Hispaniola into Haiti → Unification of Hispaniola – The current title is awkward, the proposed title is simpler. This is the only period in Hispaniolan history when the island was politically united. The article should not be about one half of the island or the other, or about one people/state or the other, but about the unification/occupation specifically. Srnec (talk) 12:46, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • The proposed title is descriptive, but there are at least three sourcse on Google Books that use the exact phrase "unification of Hispaniola" to refer to the same event (Modernity Disavowed: Haiti and the Cultures of Slavery in the Age of Revolution, An Intellectual History of the Caribbean and Routes of Passage: Rethinking the African Diaspora). Srnec (talk) 04:33, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Even though the whole island was in fact unified between this period for the first time since Spain's occupation whom called it Hispaniola, the truth is we can no longer name it as such because the people of Saint-Domingue renamed their portion of the island as well as claim it whole for themselves under the name of their constitution (Haiti). The expulsion of the French and the abandonment of Spain's eastern portion of the island led to Spain's foreign influence and the name of "Hispaniola" to leave with them. Spain later attempted to claim the part of the island later on that they left behind (modern day Dominican Republic) but failed at the hands of the Haitian government in combat for the reason being that the Haitians wanted no part of European influence to touch the island's soil for the fear that it would attract other European foreign influence, especially from France. To call this article "Unification of Hispaniola" might make some people happy, but having it changed to this would in fact turn history the wrong way. The article name "Unification of Hispaniola into Haiti" is far more accurate. Thank you for your time. Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:22, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. I honestly can't follow some of your English, but the flight of the Spanish had no effect whatsoever on the English name of the island. Your argumentum ab Francogallica also doesn't seem to make any sense, given your support of the present name which also uses "Hispaniola". (Further, per WP:ENGLISH WP:COMMONNAME, that's not going to change.) — LlywelynII 20:16, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In response to user Srnec, for simplicity purposes, this new name wouldn't make it easier at all. There already was a time when this island was unified under Spain (hence the term Hispaniola). The new name is not for simplicity. History can sometimes be difficult to grasp at times, and as Scholars we should all know that. We only have to look at European, Middle Eastern, Mayan, Ancient Egypt, Israel and the Israelites' history to realize this fact. We are only talking about an island just over 200 years old. Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The new name obviously would be briefer and "easier"; the question is whether it would be too inaccurate. The present name is overlong and badly phrased: Unification of Hispaniola under Haiti or Unification of Hispaniola as Haiti would both be preferable. The point about the earlier unification under Spanish rule is well-taken, though. What about Reunification of Hispaniola or, what is probably most accurate, a return to Haitian invasion of the Dominican Republic?
This is aside the present topic, but I personally also oppose the prior merge and think that the information on the government of Spanish Haiti / the Departments of Ozama and the Cibao should be split from this namespace and treated separately from the invasion itself. — LlywelynII 20:16, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If anything to be 100% correct it should be called "Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo" (the name of the western part of the island before the Dominican constitution renamed their part of the island to the "Dominican Republic." We have to also agree that the republic was not yet formed. In essence they continued to be in a colonial state. Furthermore, I would also have to disagree with the current name of Hispaniola. It was be far too inaccurate as well. It is only unity if the other side wanted unity. This was an occupation. Ironically enough, before Hispaniola, the whole island to the native Tainos was "Ayiti," (Haiti in English) and even though not many of them survived the people of Haiti retained its original name. Thoughts? Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the "History of the Dominican Republic" page, under "Haitian occupation 1821–44" it has a main page link redirecting Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo to this current page of "Unification of Hispaniola into Haiti." Somebody had it right. Savvyjack23 (talk) 00:06, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Back on 30 November 2013, "CrazyAces489 moved page Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo to Unification of Hispaniola into Haiti: It wasn't Santo Domingo at that time. It was the independent nation of Spanish Haiti". That's what happened. I'd have moved the article myself just to correct the bad English if it weren't protected. That's why we're here. I have no problem with simply reverting the November move. Srnec (talk) 01:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are right Srnec, the colonial name of "Santo Dominigo" ceased to exist between the time of the occupation (from February 9, 1822 to February 27, 1844). So in that case if it was the "Republic of Spanish Haiti" I have to agree with the current name. It is not a fallacy. "Unification of Hispaniola into Haiti or Hispaniola into Haiti" would deem itself correct. The stress I wish to point out here is that the eastern side of the island was occupied and haven't received independence from Haiti yet. So in whichever way it would work in that context, I would have to agree with. The suggested "Unification of Hispaniola" as mentioned before would just be too inaccurate in that time period; rewinding back to a time that has already elapsed. This is a good discussion with compelling arguments from all sides but just hope we can all agree on something soon that is accurately suitable for the reader to have less questions and confusion coming out from the article than in. Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

someone has merged the Hatian invasion article with another article for no reason. You are making light to massacre of thousands of Dominican men women and CHILDREN with a convenient title you placed such as : of a unification of hispanola`. THERE WAS NEVER ANY UNIFICATION OF ISLANDS Dominican Republic was INVADED by haiti and there people unwillingly. PLEASE unmerge the two articles the unification of hispanola is a disrespectful title for such a horrible INVASION and MURDERS of Dominican people at that time!190.166.157.141 (talk) 14:34, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Modern-day"

IslandMan89 modern-day slavery is controversial in itself (see: Restaveks; these children are not forced to work and is usually out of obligation and necessity for their poor families. They can quit at any time, hence not truly "slavery" per se.) Sweat shops (work for extremely low wages), also would not qualify as slavery either; nevermind the fact that neither belong in the lead during this time period as per Lubiesque. Savvyjack23 (talk) 22:28, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very Good

Quite some time ago I tried improving this article and perhaps due to my own stubborn views and that of some what I perceived to be antagonists just gave up on it. But I must say that the current condition of the article is very good and well referenced. It's no secret from my edits that I am Dominican, so I support a lot of what is written, in addition I was vehemently opposed to naming this article "Unification," it should've been Occupation of Dominican Republic. None the less, it is well written and unbiased.

To make it more objective, perhaps we should discuss the motivation of the occupation. Specifically we could give a bit more details about the views of Boyer. Sure there were economic reasons, but also the fear of being re-enslaved should be addressed. But I could be wrong. Either way great works guys and gals.--El Mayimbe (talk) 15:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Official name

Was the official name of this country really "Unification of Hispaniola"? (24.205.83.199 (talk) 23:40, 12 January 2018 (UTC))[reply]

"Unification of Hispaniola"

The island was never willingly united politically, many people like to believe that Haitians helped free Dominicans from Spain but thats false. Santo Domingo was already independent from Spain months before Haiti invaded and occupied for personal imperial gain, not to actually help and unify the people like many believe, Haiti just wanted more control over more land and so they militarily invaded by force and without Dominican agreement, it was a military takeover not a friendly unification. Secondly, the 2 were never same culturally, and people from Santo Domingo never seen themselves as the same as Haitians. People like to use the geography factor that the 2 are on the same island, to pin 2 entirely different cultures together. So this name is misleading, it should be called "Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.143.199.165 (talk) 17:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

i agree someone has merged the Hatian invasion article with another article for no reason. You are making light to massacre of thousands of Dominican men women and CHILDREN with a convenient title you placed such as : of a unification of hispanola`. THERE WAS NEVER ANY UNIFICATION OF ISLANDS Dominican Republic was INVADED by haiti and there people unwillingly. PLEASE unmerge the two articles the unification of hispanola is a disrespectful title for such a horrible INVASION and MURDERS of Dominican people at that time!190.166.157.141 (talk) 14:35, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unmerge the Hatian invasion of Dominican Republic article and place it back with the original main article page!

someone has merged the Hatian invasion article with another article for no reason. This person is making light to a massacre of thousands of Dominican men women and CHILDREN with a convenient title they placed such as : of a unification of hispanola`. THERE WAS NEVER ANY UNIFICATION OF ISLANDS Dominican Republic was INVADED by haiti and there hatian people forced enslaved and KILLED thousands of Dominicans and also had racism, hatred against white hispanics. PLEASE unmerge the two articles the unification of hispanola is a disrespectful title for such a horrible INVASION and MURDERS of Dominican people at that time and the two articles were made seperately please unmerge them and place the original article which was the Hatian INVASION IN DOMINICAN REPUBLIC! the eprson who merged these two articles was anti DOMINICAN and ruining historical facts that were already placed on the original article! which was THE HATIAN INVASION IN DOMINICAN REPUBLIC NOT THE UNIFICATION OF HISPANOLA that was never a historical fact please unmerge the articles and place the hatian invasion back where it was in the main article of the country.190.166.157.141 (talk) 15:05, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your perspective, and personally, I think that "Haitian occupation of Santo Domingo" is a better name for the whole article, as it takes into account the fact that the unification was obviously not voluntary for Dominicans. However, this article should only be moved/renamed with consensus. The merger was discussed and approved by consensus at the time - see Merge discussion above. The problem with the old "Haitian invasion of the Dominican Republic" article was that it was very short and covered a topic that was covered more extensively here, so I think there may be a stronger case for renaming this article than recreating one that contained a great deal less information. The title of this page was extensively discussed above, although I don't see anything wrong with reopening the discussion. Perhaps editors from WikiProject Haiti and WikiProject Dominican Republic could chime in. LegalSkeptic (talk) 17:15, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and thank you for responding trust me i looked at everything and read just about every lie that this so call ¨Unification¨ article has here and alot of it is lies and meant to distract the readers who go to the Dominican republics article page and end up here reading this would be highly confused and also misinformed. The correct title is the actual historic fact and that would still be the Hatian invasion of DOMINICAN REPUBLIC simply do to the fact it was an on going battle for 21 years that the already establish country of DR faced. Although you say ¨the Hatian occupation of Dominican Republic is a better title the fact is that its NOT the MAIN title placed in this article and this article speaks more lies of saving Dominicans and helping the country then what actually happened. That is called spreading false narratives and information that are based off of fictional books written by hatians. I see alot of Hatian editors have there hands on Dominican articles i dont see this being resolved unless someone else outside of both countries take a look at this disrespectful and injustice acts towards the Dominican side. The historic fact is there was never any unifications on both countries it was simply Haiti decided to invade Dominican republic for PERSONAL GAIN. So why is the ¨unification of hispanola¨ the main title? This entire article is misleading and FALSE and if anyone can unmerge the articles i would gladly place more backed up information on the matter that is NO EXCUSE TO MERGE THEM together of the Hatian invasion original page. If unmerged i will back up my info but i will not edit this unification lie of a page anymore. Im surprised you have this ¨unification¨ article and no one has reported or deleted it do to the amount of lies in regards to history of Dominican people just from fictional books written by non Dominicans how convenient is that for Dominicans?148.101.133.119 (talk) 19:52, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This whole article is full of lies about unity within hatians and Dominicans. that is a LIE!

this whole article is based on lies and fiction please remove this unification page from the country of Dominican republics main article and unmerge it with the hatian invasion article that was stolen and taken to be merged with this lie of an article u have here. [1] Unmerge the 2 articles and put back the correct article which is ≈THE HATIAN INVASION of Dominican Republic≈ article historical FACT.148.101.133.119 (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Hispaniola#1805:_hatian_invasion_on_the_city_Santo_Domingo
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