Talk:Wigan/Archive 2

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• /archive1 23 January 2005 - 19 December 2006

Famous people / businesses

Ok. I've given this a major tidy up. Anyone from somewhere in the Met Borough that isn't from Wigan has been removed - they don't belong here. Dating someone from Wigan, doesn't entitle people to be in this list either. I have also split the people into sections and created a large business section, where I have applied the same criteria. Regan123 03:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

And Geroge Foreman wasn't a TT racer but was in a film pretending to be one...Regan123 17:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Regan, don't you mean Grorge 'Formby'? George 'Foreman' is a boss on a building site!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

Indeed! Regan123 21:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

And you've left Tommy Billington there when he's not from Wigan.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

History

I have tracked down some citeable sources and amended the article to fit. Can anyone find something regarding the TV documentary controversy and the Wicgen as a google search and look around local websites is not tracking anything down? Regan123 19:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Roman settlement

There has been an edit that changes in the area into a more north western area. The cited reference is:

The classical evidence for this minor settlement is slight, with only a single entry in the Antonine Itinerary of the late second century. This document lists a road-station named Coccium, 20 miles from Bremetenacum (Ribchester, Lancashire) and 17 miles from Mancunium (Manchester, Greater Manchester). These distances match the location of the Wigan settlement quite well.

I'm not sure how in the area is incorrect. I know that Roman distances may be slightly different from UK/Imperial but in the area seems suitabely interperable considering the debate.Regan123 23:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

As I have said, specialists have studied this in depth. I would rather believe their findings than the ramblings of the local 'historical society'. Jemmy.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

PS. A Roman mile is .8 of a standard mile. This brings the listing down to 16 miles from Ribchester and 13 miles from Manchester. Jemmy.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

OK. Are there any citeable sources that we can look at to get it right? Regan123 00:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I certainly wouldn't call 5 to 10 miles away 'in the general vicinity'.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs).

But the cited source disagrees with that. Do you know of another source as per WP:CITE? Regan123 17:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The Antonine Itinerary is THE cited source. It puts the location as 17 'Roman' miles from Manchester, 20 'Roman' miles from Ribchester. That's 13.6 standard miles and 16 standard miles, respectively. The nearest suggested location to Wigan, as it is today, is Blackrod, but others have been suggested. Like I've said before, Regan, I have no faith in ANYTHING which is 'rumour' and that includes most of the stuff on the web. Someone puts out a rumour that Wigan 'is' Coccium and the local brainwashed fill the web with articles to reflect that and, suddenly, it becomes true. It's the same with the steam engine and Marks and Spencers. A niece of mine did a project, in primary school, about how Marks and Spencer was born in Wigan and developed from there into what it is today, led by her teacher. That, to me, is wrong. Teaching local rumour to children is wrong, but the internet is relied on a lot for school topics. Jemmy. 80.192.242.187 19:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.

Except that is a primary source that is open to interpretation as a Google search shows. We need a non trivial secondary source as per WP:CITE to put it in. I'm not arguing about putting it in, but we need to source it first if we are to get Wigan up to good article status which should be our next aim. Regan123 19:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Other discussions

JEMMY - This person should be banned from this site. All he has done is wind people up the wrong way leading to the majority of the Wigan discussions being deleted. The guy isn't even from Wigan so why is he constantly arguing with people on here and in Richard Ashcroft/ The Verve discussion pages/forums apart from trying to cause trouble ? Is your life really THAT dull and empty Jemmy ?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.224.113.189 (talk • contribs).

Not at all. But, contrary to what you say, I am not meaning to cause any problems. The fact of the matter is, Wigan people do not want to know the truth. They want to continue to fabricate tall stories about how good Wigan is. I notice that you are still playing the Ashcroft/Verve claim. Can YOU explain, how can someone from Skelmersdale be 'from' Wigan? Why claim the Verve members are from Wigan, when they, clearly, are not? How can it be a Wigan band, when all they've done is play in Wigan (along with many other places)a few times? Why continue to publish the claim that 'Marks and Spencer, the large retail company, was born and founded in Wigan', even after you have been contacted by M&S P.R. Director, who explained that you were wrong to say that, in so much as the company was formed in Cheetham Hill, Manchester? Why promote the Trencherfield Mill steam engine as 'The Biggest in the World', when it is, by far, not THE biggest? .... All I have done is state THE TRUE FACTS, which is what is required in an encyclopaedia. What is not wanted is 'Local Rumour' or 'Urban Myths'. 80.192.242.187 14:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.

The fact that you constantly pick out Wigan as your place of choice for your little moral crusade just shows you're bitterness towards the place. How many other English towns have you "corrected" on this site ? I'm sure many famous people are associated with their nearest well known town, even if they lived a mile or two from its border. I'm from Standish which is 4 miles from Wigan centre but I consider myself a Wiganner and always have done no matter what someone from outside of Wigan tells me. Richard Ashcroft is from Up-Holland and lived in a flat above a pharmacy in Orrell, McCabe is from Haydock. Both opposite sides of Wigan but they both went to college in Winstanley which is IN Wigan. The Verve established themselves in Wigan by starting off rehearsing & playing in Wigan. The first single has a pic of them in Wigan park. They played Haigh Hall in Wigan as their "Homecoming" gig. You can break a place down into as many small parts as you like but at the end of the day everyone from Wigan town centre/Winstanley/Orrell all consider themselves to be from the same town, regardless of what YOU (who isn't even from Wigan) says and thinks.This site is about people who "are from or associated" with the town yet you seem to feel so strongly about this that you'll argue against all the facts ??? I think its funny that it bothers you so much.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.224.113.189 (talk • contribs). If Ashcroft considers himself a Wiganner and you don't, then fair enough but I don't understand how you can act like you know more about this subject than he does. Maybe you should spend your time criticising your own town on here Jemmy... or just find something to do with your time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.33.130.126 (talk • contribs).

How can someone be so 'narrow minded'? If Standish was Wigan, it wouldn't be called Standish! You are a 'Standisher', not a Wiganer. Wigan council (not Wigan metropolitan borough council, there is a difference), have said themselves (when approached by Wikipedia editors to resolve the debate) that Standish IS NOT a suburb of Wigan. Standish is a 'standalone area' and it's council is a member of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, along with all the other councils, Wigan's council as well. Residents of Standish are NOT Wiganers, no matter what some of them may think.

You say yourself that Ashcroft is from Upholland, that's NOT Wigan, he lived in a flat in Orrell, again NOT Wigan. Ashcroft is, therefore, NOT a Wiganer. McCabe went to the same school as me, in Haydock, which is on the SAME SIDE of Wigan as is Upholland and Orrell, NOT OPPOSITE sides. Winstanley is 'in' Winstanley, NOT Wigan (and Winstanley college is in Orrell ((area and council ward)), it is 'joined by continuous development' to Orrell.

I ask you to spend some time studying where Wigan actually is. Wigan is NOT just a 'town centre', with shops in it. It has it's 'suburbs'. Suburbs of Wigan are thus : Springfield, Beech Hill, Swinley, Marylebone, Whelley, New Springs, Scholes. They are 'in' the place called Wigan. Winstanley, Goose Green, Kitt Green, etc. are 'in' Pemberton. Wigan AND Pemberton are'in' Wigan Borough. Wigan Borough is 'in' the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.

I have enough connections with Wigan, in property, land, business and family to know about the place. As for ME being 'bothered so much' and 'finding something better to do with my time' .... That's Rich, coming from someone who continually follows my edits and alters them to suit his own 'small town mind'. Take a look through the BIG WINDOW, you don't fall off the edge of the world if you leave Wigan, you know!

You can't beat having knowledge and being 'correct'. What people in Wigan have drummed into them, generation to generation, is called 'Urban Myth'.

NOW, if YOU can't find anything better to do with YOUR time, start to put some TRUE FACTS on Wikipedia and not YOUR OWN OPINION.

80.192.242.187 21:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.

My God!! Winstanley and Goose Green are now in Pemberton are they??? complete rubbish!! you keep making things up and changing them as you go along. However nothing can be believed with what you say after you critized Wigan in the 'Blackpool notable people discussion section' stating we put Arnold Schwarzenegger there after he had only been in Wigan for 4 days considering it was YOU who actually put him in there. .link here

That was completely pathetic!

82.33.171.111 22:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Always make sure your brain is in gear before dropping the clutch on your mouth. If you care to look in the appropriate place, you will discover that what I say is, in fact, true, as pathetic as it may seem to you. 80.192.242.187 22:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.

If your refering to Arnold Schwarzenegger living in Wigan for 4 days, I know that's true, that's not what I'm getting at, I was explaining that you was having a swipe at Wiganers (again) for being so pathetic as to actually include someone in the Wigan 'notable people' section having only lived there for 4 days yet it was YOU who put that article on the Wigan page in the first place. Are you now denying this even though I have linked to the proof in my above post? Please answer.

Now I say you are making things up as you go along because you are stating that Winstanley and Goose Green are 'in' Pemberton yet here, 3rd paragraph down you clearly state that Winstanley and Goose Green are in Wigan Borough. Two contradicting answers which prove what you say is, ISN'T in fact, true.

So what's your explaination for that? where you wrong before? or are you wrong now?

It's 2007 not 1869

By the way please try and answer both questions without the use of insults, I know you can do it, thankyou.

82.33.171.111 00:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)