User talk:Jimbo Wales

Financial support from Qatar Foundation

Jimmy, since you reverted another discussion as "trolling", how about a simple question that any open and transparent organization should not cower from? The Wikimedia Foundation at one time listed a contribution from the Qatar Foundation in the amount of "$100,000 to $999,999". While you may not know the answer off the top of your head, could you please find out exactly how much money the Wikimedia Foundation has accepted to date from the Qatar Foundation, then share it with us here? - Checking the checkers (talk) 12:15, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Why does it matter? What does it have to do with building an encyclopedia? Who we get donations from shouldn't matter. The important thing is that we stay running and be more open to how to improve the site for the better to promote content in the long term.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:09, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Could it be that Checking the checkers is working on an article titled Qatar Foundation? --MurderByDeadcopy^"bang!" 18:44, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The "logic" here is that Jimbo is associated with Wikipedia, which took a donation from Qatar Foundation, which also funded a mosque, which had a Ramadan forum, which allowed a preacher to speak at it, who had said some insensitive and radical things at other times in his life. That's literally six degrees of separation. Wnt (talk) 20:18, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Precisely. Trolling.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:00, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to know how much they gave. WMF is in no position to deny the potential influence of large donors on its behaviour. Is there a good reason not to disclose the size of QF's donation? Short of a good reason not to, I'd hope the WMF would default to transparency. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:57, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

WMF is actually in a very strong position to deny the potential influence of large donors on its behaviour. Large donors have no influence on policy of any kind. This is very clear. The WMF does default to transparency, which is why the amount was disclosed freely, here: May 2012 Wikimedia Foundation Report and the report was promoted here in "highlights" version in the Wikimedia blog. The amount was $100,000.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:24, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for fishing that out. I'm concerned to hear you deny the potential influence of large donors on the WMF's behaviour. The WMF's employment of a Harvard Belfer Center associate was a serious error; an error highly unlikely to have been made if the Stanton Foundation were not a major contributor to the WMF.

I am enormously grateful to Stanton for their support, and the Belfer-Wikimedia collaboration while clearly very, very ill-thought-through and launched against the wise counsel of two very experienced Wikipedians, did not turn into the PR nightmare it might have. Still. The WMF - and you as a board member - need to be vigilant. It would be a very hubristic foundation, indeed, that, even without the Belfer debacle in its immediate past, believed its behaviour is immune to potential influence from large donors.

The current WMF management seems alert to this potential, and that's all we can ask. Your stance - to deny the existence of potential influence - is mistaken. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for providing that information, and for (implicitly) confirming that there were no other donations before or since, on top of the $100,000 gift. Feeling some sorrow that this was considered "trolling", but you have your perspective and I have mine. I think that the Wikimedia Foundation should be careful about accepting money from organizations that also provide financial support to Hamas and other controversial figures. - Checking the checkers (talk) 16:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll go further than that. I think that the Wikimedia Foundation should not accept money from the Qatar Foundation in the future. A lot has happened since 2012. But let's be clear - you were trolling, you know you were trolling. You included ridiculous and weird claims about "clock boy" and so on. It is quite clear to me from - nearly 10 years now - of your trolling (I hope you are planning a celebration of the anniversary) that you actually have no interest in much other than trying to paint anything and everything that I do in a negative light. (The only exceptions would be trying to frighten me and my family with obsession over where my children are and sly jokes about violence, emailed threats from anonymous accounts, etc.) For whatever sad reason, you're obsessed and I'm used to it by now. I'm sure it will never end. And I'm sure it will never be any less pathetic. I genuinely hope you seek help for it - it must be hard on your family to see you throw so much of your life away on this quest.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 09:57, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

If you respond to trolls with citable, potentially newsworthy statements like the second sentence above, statements that potentially could even cost donor money or be useful for bureaucrats promoting censorship of Wikipedia, people will keep on trolling. Responses like that are a very valuable reward to get for truly trivial effort. It may be you were mistaken to consider Checkers a troll, or it may be you were mistaken to provide that answer, but to avoid making interview-by-troll a standard practice it would be best not to consider both correct, I think. My preference is somewhat for the former option, but I also think it is wrong to take a with-us-or-against-us approach. If donors of major money don't demand Wikipedia censor information to receive it, certainly the recipient should not be making such a demand of the Qatar Foundation and its mosque! Wnt (talk) 14:55, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

• Whatever the amount was, it was probably significant if it was over $100,000. Yes it would be nice to have transparency about the exact amount, but on the other hand there are reasons to respect donor wishes for privacy. And I very much doubt that a donation of even $999,999 is having a problematic influence on the Wikimedia Foundation; if anything, it would be nice if the Foundation used it to support initiatives like the Wikipedia Education Program in Arabic, Wiki Loves Monuments in Middle Eastern countries, and language translation software development. Unless some evidence emerges that there is an actual problem with this donation or how the Foundation is using it, I think that we should be grateful for the support of the Qatar Foundation. --Pine^✉ 07:20, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

The more money Qatar Foundation donates to Wikimedia, the less money they have left to donate to Hamas (which they allegedly do, I don't know if it's true). So it's a good thing when Wikimedia continues to accept donations from Qatar Foundation. --Distelfinck (talk) 12:53, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Compelling logic. Peter Damian (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It’s hardly likely they’d donate to Wikipedia if it affected the funds earmarked for Hamas. Writegeist (talk) 21:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It makes me wonder why companies like Koch industries spend so much on donations to political parties when they could be spending it on manufacturing, refining, and distribution etc. (By the same logic above) Peter Damian (talk) 21:30, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Given that the Qatar Foundation funding is likely in the billions (the majority seemingly on education initiatives) it seems likely that the chickenfeed, by their standards, donation to Wikipedia would be unlikely to affect their funding elsewhere. But it was not the QF that donated to Hamas but the Qatari government, although the government also funds the QF. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 21:51, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

What do you think the Qatar Foundation would do with an extra $100,000 in their bank accounts? My best guess is, if last year let's say 70% of their spendings went into education, and 30% into research, they will also spend 70% of that $100,000 on education, and 30% of it on research. --Distelfinck (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 November 2015

• Op-ed: Wikidata: the new Rosetta Stone

• News and notes: Fundraising update; FDC recommendations

• In the media: Erasmus Prize awarded to Wikipedia; trouble on the Russian Wikipedia

• Recent research: Do Wikipedia citations mirror scholarly impact?; co-star networks in silent films

• Featured content: Caves and stuff

• Traffic report: J'en ai ras le bol

• Arbitration report: Third Palestine-Israel case closes; Voting begins

• Technology report: Tech news in brief

• Blog: Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia Deutschland urge Reiss Engelhorn Museum to reconsider suit over public domain works of art

• Read this Signpost in full
• Single-page
• Unsubscribe
• MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

colloquy on intellectual property rights

In cases other than "slavish copying" (per the Corel case exception), ought museums be allowed to use their own copyrighted photographs to get monies for operations through royalties? See the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2015-11-25/Blog where I suggest the issue is clearly made out. Thanks to any who opine. Collect (talk) 01:27, 30 November 2015 (UTC)