User talk:Jimbo Wales

"Turkish authorities block Wikipedia without giving reason"

Here on BBC News. There are 1001 reasons why this might have happened, but it is likely that the government objects to a particular page or pages and can't block them individually, as there is a HTTPS connection to the site. As the BBC News story points out, this type of ban can be circumvented with a VPN, but it looks like Wikipedia is off the menu in Turkey at the moment.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:12, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

The Daily Sabah (a Pravda-style mouthpiece for the Turkish government) has just published the following [1]:

According to the sources, the internet watchdog Information and Communication Technologies Authority (BTK) banned the website after it did not respond to any of the warnings by the government against the fabricated information aiming to show Turkey in cooperation with some terror groups.

Turkey has requested Wikipedia to open a representative agency in the country, comply with the international law, pay taxes like other companies operating in the country and stop becoming a part of smear campaign against Turkey.

So I would guess this is likely to be a permanent block, if the Turkish government is essentially trying to dictate Wikipedia's content. Prioryman (talk) 13:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I hope Katherine is able to contact the relevant decision-maker in Turkey to resolve this sensitively and diplomatically. I hope the WMF and anyone presuming to speak for the WMF can resist any temptation to hector them publicly. On that, I hope we can leave public discussion and announcements to one (only) spokesperson. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:19, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I hope the WMF tells the Turkish government go do one personally. Or in more polite language, 'The WMF has no control over the content of Wikipedia'. While the Turkish government might be able to bully and oppress its own populace, its not quite grasped that it cannot do the same to the internet in general. I wouldnt book any holidays in Turkey soon though Jimmy. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:26, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to Turkey in 2 weeks time.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:31, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I think this fits perfectly with the topic directly above, if not directly, indirectly in what I called "odd coupling"...or the term I had forgotten, strange bedfellows. Nocturnalnow (talk) 14:00, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

The Daily Sabah article isn't specific about which page or pages caused the problem, or if it was in the English or Turkish language Wikipedia. In August 2015, we know that officials in Russia objected to this article in Russian about charas, which is a form of cannabis.[2] The Turkish government has defined a range of issues that are problematic. It may be like the British government's 1988–94 British broadcasting voice restrictions involving the PKK or similar groups. While the Turkish government is entitled to take measures that are necessary for law and order, it isn't acceptable to censor reliably sourced material that is available via the media in other countries. Let's hope that the Turkish government can be more specific about what is causing the problem.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#The_cause_of_the_Wikipedia_block_in_Turkey. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 15:49, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, just to clarify, this says that two articles on the English language Wikipedia have caused the problem:

• State-sponsored_terrorism#Turkey
• Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Turkey

Not being an expert on Turkish politics, I can't wade in on how accurate any of this is. However, if it meets Wikipedia guidelines it should be acceptable The Turkish government can make specific criticisms, but doesn't have a guaranteed right of veto over Wikipedia content. This is similar to the various occasions when Russian government agencies have objected to drug-related content on Wikipedia. Although the Russian language Wikipedia is in Russian, it isn't subject to Russian law; Russian is also spoken in countries other than Russia.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:03, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Jimmy has jumped in on Twitter. I hope you ran your intervention by the WMF ED before you picked up the megaphone, Jimmy. Megaphone hectoring and spotlight-grabbing self-aggrandising may might be great for your business launch, but it may not be in the movement's best interest, it may not be the best way to handle this. It's Katherine's call not yours. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:02, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

We call it freedom of expression, and we like it! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:09, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo said on Twitter: "Access to information is a fundamental human right. Turkish people, I will always stand with you and fight for this right. #turkey" This doesn't look like hectoring.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:15, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Definitely not hectoring. An eloquent statement of the principles that we stand for, and moral support for our community members at a time when they need it. I'm in constant contact with the WMF on this issue and as I have always done in such matters, will follow their advice. Of course. Anthony, you are invited to please try not to POV push about unrelated matters here. This is an important moment and an important human rights issue.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:40, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Also on Twitter, here is what the BTK (Turkey's telecoms regulator) said about the block. This is a content dispute, albeit with an entity that can block access to Wikipedia if it doesn't get what it wants. The Turkish government is sensitive about allegations that it has supported groups fighting the civil war in Syria. This is a common allegation on Russia Today, which is also effectively a mouthpiece for what the Kremlin wants to say. Wikipedia content is driven by the five pillars. It has to look at what secondary reliable sources have said, not government mouthpieces.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I noticed thatLarry King is on RT and some of their productions win awards in New York. CNN is maybe no less of a mouthpiece. More important, the whole scene seems to be metastasizing and getting real scary real quick. I hope Jimbo does not go there right now....seems too dare devilish to me at this politically heated and militarily flammable point in time. Wikitribune is not live and with Wikipedia, being an encyclopedia, there is no rush. Just my opinion.Nocturnalnow/Alzheimer's victim

Jimmy Wales is not some chattel of the WMF, and we should not be shocked if he says what he thinks. This is someone who founded Wikipedia in the first place; his judgment deserves respect. True, I would not be counted on to defer to that judgment if freedom of speech pulled me in the opposite direction, but this time I need no convincing.

I despise Twitter as a medium, but must note the response on his page citing this Daily Sabah article. It claims that "Information and Communication Technologies Authority (BTK) banned the website after it did not respond to any of the warnings by the government against the fabricated information aiming to show Turkey in cooperation with some terror groups." Note that this is a government censoring its own people's access to all sorts of information as a hostage to its desire to burnish its image internationally. Note that they expect that the way article writing works is that they call up somebody at WMF and he takes command and control over the article and makes it the way they want from now on. There is not much to do with this but let the Turks sweat it out - they are the ones hurt, both by outage and by Streisand Effect. Even if we were so outrageously foolhardy as to give in to their demands ... how long would it take them to find something else? Remember, we have a decent article about Fethullah Gulen that, as it should, links directly to his website and various films and writings. Anybody in Turkish academia who can be shown to have read something like that is out of Turkish academia - for Wikipedia to possess such a book makes it formally a member of "FETO".[3] How long would it take them to come back and say we are "promoting terrorism"? Who would bank on the safety of some WMF idiot who actually went to go open "a representative agency in the country", as they also demand? The guy would end up being prosecuted as a terrorist merely by association with Gulenists! And why should Wikipedia "pay taxes like other companies operating in the country"? What contributor gives to WMF in order that it can pay ransom to a dictatorship? Wnt (talk) 18:49, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

One of the problems is that Wikipedia content is dynamic. A page may look quite different in a week's time from how it looks now. However, it looks as though the Turkish government will object to any mention of sources suggesting that it has been involved in backing groups fighting the civil war in Syria. Wikipedia content isn't going to be dictated down the phone from Ankara, so it's time for Turkish people to download Tor or use VPNs if they want to see what the English language Wikipedia says. This is similar to Internet censorship in China due to the Chinese government's thin skin over the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, Taiwan and various other issues.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:30, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

On a practical level, could someone arrange for a bot to go through, find all the Turkey/Erdogan/Gulen related articles on Wikipedia, and have three or more web archives take snapshots of each and every reference in them? If Erdogan is hassling us he may be hassling news sites with less of a spine and much more at stake, and if our sources go away we are helpless, because defiance is no substitute for data. I'm trying to archive the ones at state-sponsored terrorism and it's a pretty dull thing to do. Even if I do have to notice, with an admixture of disgust and amusement, that an editor took out a Daily Mail link [4] citing "WP:DAILYMAIL", while leaving in two WND (WorldNetDaily) links. (I archived them anyway... 20 more to go...) Wnt (talk) 23:35, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

A very Wikipedia response: 2017 block of Wikipedia in Turkey. Prioryman (talk) 00:31, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Even more Wikipedia reaction (although maybe less how we want to see ourselves ;-). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 05:42, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Turkey has also banned TV dating game shows.[5] Maybe this isn't a major loss for Turkey, but combined with the firing of 4,000 more government officials, it looks like Turkey is sliding towards authoritarianism.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:04, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

A friend suggested: maybe we need the "stealth revisions" version of "stealth banning" for relevant IP ranges (mentioned because it was humorous). —░]PaleoNeonate█ ⏎ ?ERROR░ 06:19, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Sliding towards you say? I think it already has, Turkey has been under the state of emergency since the botched coup attempt, which was on 15 July 2016. Since then, numerous executive orders were put in place without a parliamentary approval. Latest executive order was a ban on dating shows, as absurd as it sounds, is just a smokescreen, just an inflammatory action to cover much more insidious actions. It also goes to show you how brazen they are with the power they have. And with the latest Referendum for key constitutional changes, obviously stolen in favor of an outright regime change that would've made even Hitler envious, Erdogan has consolidated his absolute authority over Turkey. And when I say stolen I don't mean like Trump's whining of losing popular votes. It was properly stolen with a decision by the Supreme Electoral Council of Turkey. They made an unprecedented(not to mention against the law) ruling and declared that the ballots without the proper stamps of the electoral council, which is a precaution against voter fraud, will be allowed. The reports say more than a 1.5 million ballots without stamps were counted in, majority of which is in favor of the constitutional changes. So, "Turkey sliding towards authoritarianism" is the understatement of the century. Darwinian Ape ^talk 03:40, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Jimmy probably already knows, but let me post this for the followers of this page. He is probably not coming to Turkey, since his invitation has now been withdrawn.

Vito Genovese 08:43, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Probably not a very good idea for anyone who uses their real name to post here, and who has put any "unflattering" info on the Erdogan or Turkey pages, to travel to Turkey anytime soon. I hear Erdogan is really "going for the gold," these days. I hear he wants to put a good solid "lock" on his currently reigning Guinness Book of World Records title for incarcerating the most journalists ever recorded since the days of the Third Reich. The more he puts in the camp, the more he's the "champ," they say.... Scott P. (talk) 19:31, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, almost forgot, Trump was the first Western leader (and only Western leader so far as I can tell) to call Erdogan to congratulate him on his recent "fake election" victory. I wonder just how closely Trump might hold Erdogan as a rolemodel? Trump says he wants to reduce the freedom of the American "fake press" with real "libel laws." I wonder if or when Erdogan will be calling Trump to congratulate him, and if Wikipedia might be real or fake in the Trump alternative universe? Scott P. (talk) 20:26, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I personally feel quite proud to be a part of Wikipedia, an organization which I believe is already making the world a far better place, and if I lived in Turkey right about now, I'd probably be a member of the Wikipedia underground resistance (if there were one). I'd like to believe I'd be willing to dare to get the truth out, and put the truth above many other less important things. I wish any and all Turkish Wikipedians who may have posted "unflattering things" on those pages safety, good health, and good luck in finding a virtual tunnel to get back to us at Wikipedia under Erdogan's radar. Scott P. (talk) 20:38, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Internet censorship in Turkey and North Korea

Well, I've already instructed several Turks on how to use Tor and VPNs. Even now, the Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 20:13, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

I wonder if the N. Korean censor-gateway-system is as VPN/TOR-susceptable as Turkey's? Might you know? I'd like to hope that it is. I'd like to hope that the very nature of the Internet tends to make censorship ultimately impossible, but somehow I doubt it. Usually the more sophisticated the technology, the more sophisticated the new cops and the new robbers just have to be, that is all. Sigh. Scott P. (talk) 22:32, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

To my knowlege, North Korea does not block access to Wikipedia. They block (or blocekd) Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Voice of America, and some South Korean websites. But in general, that's not how North Korean internet censorship works at all. They restrict access to the internet as a whole rather than censor individual websites. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:47, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Yep. To the best of my knowledge, most North Koreans don't have access to the public Internet at all. That's about the only sure way you can block things; just not allow any access whatsoever. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 08:36, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo banned from Turkey?

Spotted in the New Zealand Herald: [Istanbul] municipality said Tuesday that Jimmy Wales had been removed from a list of invitees to the World Cities Expo event later this month and that he had been notified of the decision. [6] Prioryman (talk) 19:46, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Uh-mm. It is often said that people vote with their feet. Turkey used to be Europe's 6th most popular holiday destination from which they earned billions Tourism in Turkey. Now, they appear to be slowly raising their own Iron Curtain. They even vacillated on joining the EU. So this country is no longer on my list of countries to visit before I die - and many others may strike it off their list too. What is the point in hosting the World Cities Expo in Turkey, if representatives of the whole World are not welcomed for being labelled as persona non grata ? Aspro (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Incredibly well said. —░]PaleoNeonate█ ⏎ ?ERROR░ 22:08, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• "removed from a list of invitees to the World Cities Expo event" is not the same thing as "banned from Turkey". That said, it would take some "nerve" to ignore the disinvite and pay your own way into the conference. I'd urge Jimbo to go, if he wants to, but I'm not sure I have all that's needed to do that type of thing myself. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 03:31, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I should be able to comment within a few days.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:46, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I guess they didn't like your tweet or your legal action. They need to go through a proxy server and read Streisand effect. Coretheapple (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Sometimes it's not fake news, just bad reporting

Please see Wikipedia to fight fake news with new site reporting on Wikitribune. The headline is the only real whopper, but the text is also inaccurate. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 02:11, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

What part of the text is inaccurate? TheValeyard (talk) 04:13, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

• The lede "Wikipedia, the website students are told not to cite in their work, is joining the battle against fake news with its own online news publication.", and the last sentence
• "Wikipedia is one of largest information websites on the internet. As of April 2017 it has about 5.3 million pages in English, and English pages make only 12 percent of Wikipedia's total, the website's statistics page says." which strongly implies that they're reporting on Wikipedia, not Wikitribune. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 21:22, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

• I can say with reasonable certainty, having several relatives that word in the educational sector, that citing Wikipedia is expressly forbidden in many classrooms. Students are allowed to conduct initial research at a Wikipedia article, then follow its citations to the real sources. The lead is correct. The comment about the size of Wikipedia is accurate inasfar Wikipedia is accurate about itself, as it cites Wikipedia:Size of Wikipedia. Again, not a problem. ValarianB (talk) 13:31, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

We'll work to get this corrected! Thanks Smallbones for bringing it to my attention, I had overlooked this one!--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:47, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

• How about stopping using the word "Wiki" in the name of your new for-profit organization — since the only thing that can result from "Jimmy Wales" + "Wiki" is a completely false intimation that this new business enterprise has the slightest thing to do with the non-profit, non-commercial Wikipedia??? Certainly there are other words that one could use in a new organization? Or is the "accidental whoops name misunderstanding" actually part of the business plan??? Call me a cynic, but that's what it looks like to me... Carrite (talk) 05:49, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

• In the real world, away from the conspiracy theories that Wikipediocracy types like to huff, the word "wiki" means "a website that provides collaborative modification of its content and structure directly from the web browser". That sounds very much like what is proposed for Wikitribune. I'd suggest spending more time in the real world, you might like it here! Prioryman (talk) 12:49, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

No, what it sounds like what is being proposed for Wikitribune is that donations be garnered for "Jimmy Inc. Wiki-something," cashing in on the goodwill generated by tens of thousands of volunteers, so that a crew of intrepid citizen-reporters, operating under the unfavorable libel laws of the UK and absorbing all the personal risk therefrom, generate content to be curated by a handful of paid ex-journalists. And if the venture makes money, we know where that goes. Silly conspiratorial me. Carrite (talk) 16:05, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

There's nothing silly about your accusations on this page. You use this page to accuse Jimmy and the WMF of all sorts of terrible things which never turn out the way you state them. Note that everybody has the right to use the prefix "Wiki", and Jimmy certainly has that right if anybody does. Wikipediocracy uses it, even though it is not a Wiki and does not share in the ideals of the Wikipedia community. Start there and have them remove the Wiki-prefix. "pediocracy" would be a much more descriptive name for it. I'll also suggest that if, after 10 years or so of complaining, you discover that you don't like Wikipedia, that you just leave. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 17:25, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Carrite merely got assigned to play "dissonance". Some music is ultimately improved with a little dissonance (though glass is sometimes shattered, and ears are sometimes quickly plugged too.) Scott P. (talk) 22:05, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Just giving you uptempo power chords of truth so the saccharine siren-song of stupidity doesn't clog your earholes. This is a for profit entity in which JW cashes in (again) on the good will associated with the Wiki brand with an intentional "whoops" company name and a fake-baked model heralding "volunteers" who are going to actually play the part of exploited minions. It's really a pathetic display. Hear me or don't, I don't care. Looking forward to seeing the transparently-provided executive compensation figures. Carrite (talk) 02:30, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Keep lashing out Carrite! You'll hit a target, or at least not look ridiculous, one day! Johnuniq (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I've hit the mark on this, kid yourself otherwise... Carrite (talk) 01:54, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

So long as Jimbo (replace with Ward Cunningham) has essentially released the copyrights to the word "Wiki" to the rest of the world, which he has, then he or anyone else in the rest of the world is both legally and ethically free to use the word Wiki however they want. Just because Jimbo happened to have the best idea since sliced bread in creating Wikipedia doesn't preclude him from a few legitimate bennies like capitalizing on a phenomenon that he basically created without introducing any real legal or ethical problems. I salute him for doing so. The more the word "wiki" is used, the more popular Wikipedia becomes. Why cry over this? Scott P. (talk) 16:12, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

"the copyrights to the word "Wiki"" ? Ward Cunningham may have an objection there, sir. ValarianB (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you sir, I stand gratefully corrected. Good to know these things. Have tortuously now repaired said blooper above. And also thanks for pointing out that we are each standing on the shoulders of countless unsung heroes, so none of us should ever imagine that we are truly giants, instead we're all really fortunate to have been temporarily lent rather good pairs of stilts. Scott P. (talk) 23:11, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Has our NPOV policy "gone south?"

I just wrote a sort of an explanation in which your name was mentioned a few times, of what I believe are the major changes in the WP:NPOV policy section since the beginning around here, and I thought you might find this interesting to read or comment on. Thanks, Scott P. (talk) 16:15, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Scott P. has over 12,000 edits and has been editing since 2004, which I think is important. I also think the term "majoritarian journalism" which Scott uses is an interesting and maybe realistic theory/concept/observation. However, in order to "fix" it, as Scott suggests, I see no simple general solution and any solution I can imagine right now would make Wikipedia more complicated and self-analytical which would be a net negative, perhaps. I do think that our Reliable Sources "list" could use a lot more attention and qualifiers, but even that would require so much work and consensus building difficulty that I don't see the manpower available among the volunteers to address that now. I do think Scott has brought up something worth thinking about, although at this time, even if "majoritarian journalism" is in play, I think its something we have to live with for the foreseeable future. Nocturnalnow/Alzheimer's victim

Hi Al,

Good to see you, and thanks for reading some of the argument over at the Erdogan talk page. I'm not sure which incarnation of that discussion you may have read, but it's a great ongoing discussion, which I hope you might still be following. You see, I believe that the exact same problem that I try to point out over there is the exact same journalistic problem that brought us Trump. The current journalistic model is majoritarian and not dual-argument. If it were truly dual-argument, we wouldn't have so easily lost say, 50% of the American electorate. You are correct, the subtle difference between majoritarian writing and dual-argument writing is a difficult concept. I hope more folks read that discussion over there. I believe that if more people could actually learn this concept, both WP, and politics in general would be greatly improved.

Thanks,

Scott P. (talk) 22:55, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

World Press Freedom Index

May 3 is World Press Freedom Day, and Reporters Without Borders has "published the 2017 rankings for the World Press Freedom Index".

• 2017 World Press Freedom Index—Reporters Without Borders

"This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."—John 3:19–21, New English Bible
—Wavelength (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

May you live in interesting times

Following on your announcement of Wikitribune, there seems to have been a flurry of other announcements and news:

• China to launch Wikipedia rival in 2018
• Turkish authorities block Wikipedia without giving reason
• Facebook hires 3,000 to review content
• China announces tighter regulations for online news

Meanwhile, here in London, it's former Chancellor Osborne's first day at the Evening Standard. It seems that all of a sudden, everyone wants to spring clean the news. Remarkable. Andrew D. (talk) 16:24, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Concern yourself not. After a spring clean he will want to smarten up the walls with a fresh coat of white-wash, like he did when in Number 11. Aspro (talk) 22:42, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

George Osborne is a particularly entrenched silver spoon type, imo, frequent Bilderberg meeting attendee. Worst of all, he appears to be intellectually cunning and smart. I have nothing good to say about this man, unless you like the politician/media controllers revolving door. This is the worst news for objective U.K. media I could imagine.

Here is our history of his earlier, less connected, attempts to invade journalism "In 1993, Osborne intended to pursue a career in journalism. He was shortlisted for, but failed to gain a place on, The Times' trainee scheme; he also applied to The Economist, where he was interviewed and rejected by Gideon Rachman.[13] In the end, he had to settle for freelance work on the Peterborough diary column of The Daily Telegraph" Just when you think main stream news media could not get any worse, it does...bigtime.Nocturnalnow/Alzheimer's victim

Well, the BBC article on the Chinese initiative notes "Unlike Wikipedia, it will be created by selected scholars from state-run universities rather than being openly editable by volunteers". So it sounds more like Britannica, which I consider complementary to the Wikipedia rather than a rival. So the Chinese effort looks to be only a "rival" in that sense. It actually sounds fine, no reason the Chinese shouldn't have a great Britannica-like publication, if they don't already. Of course it will elide a lot of important stuff, but no helping that. Herostratus (talk) 22:28, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

• Jimmy is on it. Reading last night's issue of the Standard, I noticed that he had some advice for the new editor. He gives some good examples in that as I remember seeing that news story about the big sunrise screens in China but hadn't realised that it was fake news. You can still find that story online elsewhere. I wonder what the "Great Wall of Culture" will say about air pollution? Andrew D. (talk) 08:17, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Can concepts with mainly euphemisms have a page?

Let's say a concept is notable and encyclopedic, but due to its blunt or taboo nature it has a myriad of terms which are all uncommon and non-standard. Does the existence of numerous synonyms contribute to its notability or does the obscurity of the main/article title dislodge it from deserving an article? 92.2.69.173 (talk) 15:09, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Boy this is a classic example of a question asked in such an abstract way that I find it difficult to answer. It would likely be more productive if you could give the example that you have in mind.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I should think that WP:COMMONNAME should cover the majoity, where topics are not covered by other specific guidelines -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 16:08, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

and when those fail... be bold, and set the title as what you think the most common one is, create redirects for other names, and if editiors don't like it, then can request a page move. -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 16:11, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Well I think for many "taboo" topics, the right answer actually isn't going to be WP:COMMONNAME after all - or at least not a simplistic interpretation of it. Some things should be named by a more scientific or clinical name because we are an encyclopedia. The correct principle, ultimately, is that things should be at the name where most people would naturally expect them to be - and that includes deviations from a simplistic interpretation of common name policy in some cases. There can also be other factors at play such as where it makes sense for the common name to be used as the title of a different article. Again, the example that the original poster had in mind would probably be useful.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2017 (UTC)