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Also, as was [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games/archive10#Wikipedia should not recommend Wikibooks for game guides|discussed]] on WP:CVG, ''"the [http://strategywiki.net StrategyWiki] team (including myself) have made preparations to import ''all'' suitable videogame guides. This is not going to be a half-hearted history cut-'n'-paste like transwiki bots do either, instead the authentic full edit histories will be imported directly from database dumps thanks to the excellent [[mw:MWDumper|MWDumper]]."'' (Comment was made by [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Garrett]]). I think that this would be an ideal situation. If at some point in the future colleges do start to give courses teaching students to become "professional gamers" or something, they could always be re-imported using a similar technique. <font color="AE1C28">[[User:Jacoplane|jaco]]</font>♫<font color="#21468B">[[User_talk:Jacoplane|plane]]</font> 01:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, as was [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games/archive10#Wikipedia should not recommend Wikibooks for game guides|discussed]] on WP:CVG, ''"the [http://strategywiki.net StrategyWiki] team (including myself) have made preparations to import ''all'' suitable videogame guides. This is not going to be a half-hearted history cut-'n'-paste like transwiki bots do either, instead the authentic full edit histories will be imported directly from database dumps thanks to the excellent [[mw:MWDumper|MWDumper]]."'' (Comment was made by [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Garrett]]). I think that this would be an ideal situation. If at some point in the future colleges do start to give courses teaching students to become "professional gamers" or something, they could always be re-imported using a similar technique. <font color="AE1C28">[[User:Jacoplane|jaco]]</font>♫<font color="#21468B">[[User_talk:Jacoplane|plane]]</font> 01:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


== Wikipedia IS evil ==


[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:NOT_evil#biggest_problem.3F]

It is host to the same big political groupthink game that goes on in
all of the rest of civilization. It is a battleground for propaganda warfare, a lawless game in which anything can be said as long as its in "neutral" language even if its a propagandists lie, and even if it exists only to dispute a known fact. It is a place notable mostly for what it conspicuously lacks. There are in general thousands of articles which tell us about as much as a High Schooler might, and which then devolve into factoids and rhetoric. The expertise of depth
knowledge is missing. No expert would submit themselves to a situation of patent pack psychology informational riot. Wikipedia is
Evil. And You, Jimbo Wales, are the guy who created it. Maybe you should try some Formal Logic in the mix. Maybe this "Randian" Environment could use some controls on its chaos vectors. Maybe even
a realistic and functional methodology for dealing with abuse might be in order.

Nice graphic box at the top of the page says to go post at the admin
desk,. Funny, i tried that, and got less than no result. Abusiveness is rampant and the organization is headless. I can tell Wikipedia in
fifty places what its problems are and how to solve them, but wikipedias nose is in the air, and the God king doesn't seem to read
his talk page. What you have here isn't an encyclopedia, and in pretending, all that it offers a legitamate participant over the long term is abuse. The admin desk won't help you if you are being attacked and baited with ad hominems; they don't even know what one is. They aren't required to pick up any education to become admins;
they come with the standard prole "opinion" fully intact, and no knowledge to back anything up.

Good luck with your evil science social sciences project.
Let me know if you want any help to fix it.
[[User:Prometheuspan|Prometheuspan]] 00:09, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
----------
Larry Sanger has the same diagnosis that i do. I have more to offer
in terms of how to solve the problem. But not whilst being blocked
by trolls and their pet admins for making the effort.
-----------
"Wikipedia has, to its credit, done something about the most serious trolling and other kinds of abuse: there is an Arbitration Committee that provides a process whereby the most disruptive users of Wikipedia can be ejected from the project.

But there are myriad abuses and problems that never make it to mediation, let alone arbitration. A few of the project's participants can be, not to put a nice word on it, pretty nasty. And this is tolerated. So, for any person who can and wants to work politely with well-meaning, rational, reasonably well-informed people--which is to say, to be sure, most people working on Wikipedia--the constant fighting can be so off-putting as to drive them away from the project. This explains why I am gone; it also explains why many others, including some extremely knowledgeable and helpful people, have left the project.

The root problem: anti-elitism, or lack of respect for expertise. There is a deeper problem--or I, at least, regard it as a problem--which explains both of the above-elaborated problems. Namely, as a community, Wikipedia lacks the habit or tradition of respect for expertise. As a community, far from being elitist (which would, in this context, mean excluding the unwashed masses), it is anti-elitist (which, in this context, means that expertise is not accorded any special respect, and snubs and disrespect of expertise is tolerated). This is one of my failures: a policy that I attempted to institute in Wikipedia's first year, but for which I did not muster adequate support, was the policy of respecting and deferring politely to experts. (Those who were there will, I hope, remember that I tried very hard.)

I need not recount the history of how this nascent policy eventually withered and died. Ultimately, it became very clear that the most active and influential members of the project--beginning with Jimmy Wales, who hired me to start a free encyclopedia project and who now manages Wikipedia and Wikimedia--were decidedly anti-elitist in the above-described sense.

Consequently, nearly everyone with much expertise but little patience will avoid editing Wikipedia, because they will--at least if they are editing articles on articles that are subject to any sort of controversy--be forced to defend their edits on article discussion pages against attacks by nonexperts. This is not perhaps so bad in itself. But if the expert should have the gall to complain to the community about the problem, he or she will be shouted down (at worst) or politely asked to "work with" persons who have proven themselves to be unreasonable (at best).

This lack of respect for expertise explains the first problem, because if the project participants had greater respect for expertise, they would have long since invited a board of academics and researchers to manage a culled version of Wikipedia (one that, I think, would not directly affect the way the main project is run). But because project participants have such a horror of the traditional deference to expertise, this sort of proposal has never been taken very seriously by most Wikipedians leading the project now. And so much the worse for Wikipedia and its reputation.

This lack of respect for expertise and authority also explains the second problem, because again if the project participants had greater respect for expertise, there would necessarily be very little patience for those who deliberately disrupt the project. This is perhaps not obvious, so let me explain. To attact and retain the participation of experts, there would have to be little patience for those who do not understand or agree with Wikipedia's mission, or even for those pretentious mediocrities who are not able to work with others constructively and recognize when there are holes in their knowledge (collectively, probably the most disruptive group of all). A less tolerant attitude toward disruption would make the project more polite, welcoming, and indeed open to the vast majority of intelligent, well-meaning people on the Internet. As it is, there are far fewer genuine experts involved in the project (though there are some, of course) than there could and should be.

It will probably be objected by some that, since I am not 100% committed to the most radical sort of openness, I do not understand why the project that I founded works: it works, I will be told, precisely because it is radically open--even anarchical.

I know, of course, that Wikipedia works because it is radically open. I recognized that as soon as anyone; indeed, it was part of the original plan. But I firmly disagree with the notion that that Wikipedia-fertilizing openness requires disrespect toward expertise. The project can both prize and praise its most knowledgeable contributors, and permit contribution by persons with no credentials whatsoever. That, in fact, was my original conception of the project. It is sad that the project did not go in that direction.

One thing that Wikipedia could do now, although I doubt that it is possible in the current atmosphere and with the current management, is to adopt an official policy of respect of and deference to expertise. Wikipedia's "key policies" have not changed since I was associated with the project; but if a policy of respect of and deference to expertise were adopted at that level, and if it were enforced somehow, perhaps the project would solve the problems described above.

But don't hold your breath. Unless there is the equivalent of a revolution in the ranks of Wikipedia, the project will not adopt this sort of policy and make it a "key policy"; or if it does, the policy will probably be not be enforced. I certainly do not expect Jimmy Wales to change his mind. I have known him since 1994 and he is a smart and thoughtful guy; I am sure he has thought through his support of radical openness and his (what I call) anti-elitism. I doubt he will change his mind about these things. And unless he does change his mind, the project itself will probably not change. "
--------------
It isn't the people per sey, its the way that they manage to interact, the simple lack of [[Logic]] and the defensibility of ignorance in a vaccuum.
[[User:Prometheuspan|Prometheuspan]] 01:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


==Idea==
==Idea==

Revision as of 01:30, 26 May 2006

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Copyright violations

Jimbo:

I know you'e taken a particular interest in flagrant copyright violators, so let me point you to a particular discussion on the admin board. Note particularly his rationale when busted, ...why are you doing this? You know that Wikipedia isn't liable for copyright violations that it isn't aware are occurring? There's absolutely no reason to be doing this! --Calton | Talk 00:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry

I was wrong. It's wrong to copy material onto Wikipedia without attribution. I'm sorry. I'm also sorry for violating my block to post here, but I needed to get your attention.--Primetime 02:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plans for releasing Wikipedia 1.0

The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has been very busy and is about to start accepting nominations for Wikipedia:Version 0.5, a test of a CD/DVD/paper release. We would like to release this test version in autumn 2006. We will also soon be accepting Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Nominations in preparation for release of a full Wikipedia 1.0 release, soon after 0.5 if the test is successful. The nomination/approval process will mirror WP:GAN for V0.5, and WP:FAC for V1.0. We elected to start with a core of important, good-quality articles and build from there, rather than following the German model. This will allow us to scrutinise each article and check for copyright infringements, bad language, etc. The following activities are providing support for the project:

  • A list of around 170 core topics and closer to 1000 "vital articles" (based on lists like this list at meta).
  • Several thousand articles compiled from contact with WikiProjects, much of which comes from worklists.
  • The listing of 1000 articles at good articles.
  • We have had successful tests of a bot which automagically prepares tables of articles by quality such as this chemistry list and the corresponding log of changes, both updated daily. We will be contacting all WikiProjects during the spring with the aim of encouraging groups to use this system. We hope the projects will at least provide us with lists of key articles in their subject area. The projects can then easily feed into V0.5 and V1.0 via the nomination process.

We are also considering putting together a children's version of the release, by expanding an off-site release by a children's charity.

Please could you give your views on this strategy on the main WP:1.0 discussion page? Would you be willing to support these projects as official CD/DVD/paper releases of Wikipedia, assuming certain criteria (no copyright problems, etc) are met? Thanks, Walkerma 01:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Block clarification (Wikibooks)

Recently, you blocked Zephram Stark from Wikibooks [1]. As I've had quite a bit of interaction with this user here on WP, I was a tad disappointed to see him pop up at WB, as he can be a bit frustrating sometimes. However, my question is regarding the general blocking policy. Are we allowed to block banned en.wiki users at the first sign of trouble, or do we have to go through the usual steps? My guess is that we should have a shorter leash on these users, correct? We've basically shown that we (users of all Wikimedia projects) have assumed good faith, but they have already worn it out. So we should be able to block at the very first sign of trouble, no? Thanks for your help. --Mark Neelstin (Dark Mark) 02:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This would be up to Wikibooks to decide, generally. I recommend enforcing en.wikipedia blocks globally in all en communities, but that can be left up to local preference. Zephram's particular bad, and it would be a total shame for you to waste much time with him!--Jimbo Wales 01:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are mods for computer games notable

Hello, I am wondering once and for all if small mods/conversions for computer games are notable, and when they go from being notable to being AFD cruft. Trying to figure this out from general guidelines is a source of great confusion for me and others. Bfelite 04:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I'm aware, Jimbo hasn't been big on discussing notability criteria. The only comment by him I know of on the matter is this (note the edit summary), over two years ago. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 06:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What was believed appropriate for Wikipedia changed as the number of articles went from 10,000 to 100,000 to 1,000,000. It will continue to change as it goes from 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 and more. WAS 4.250 15:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Do you think that if they allow Pacifist user boxes they should have Facist? And if they have Christianity they should have Satanist. I am not a Satanist I am just saying they have rights to. MegaloManiac 17:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo's too busy to make those userboxes for you, but if you go to WP:UBX#Designing a userbox, you can find out how to make them yourself. It's not a very difficult process. Jimpartame 18:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with edit history

I have not logged onto my wikipedia for about a month, and when I did I noticed some things that were quite odd with my history.

I joined in March of 2006, yet I seem to have 3 edits that were made in August of 2004... Over a year before I even joined. I also created the Doctor Andonuts page, and that is gone from my history. (Yet the page is still there) I've also made numerous edits to the Mother 3 page, yet only one edit is shown.

I'm not quite sure what is wrong, but I would be grateful if I could receive some type of explanation, advice, or assistance. Thank you for your time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ssj27gohan (talk • contribs) .

For one thing, you appear to have two accounts: User:Ssj27gohan and User:SSJ27Gohan (capitalization does matter) NoSeptember talk 15:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

reverting squidward on talk pages

From User talk:Makemi

Is it really necessary? I mean, when he makes some relatively harmless comment. It seems to me to only inflame him.--Jimbo Wales 07:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did hesitate on that one. There are a couple of problems, however. Firstly, when he comes back he tends to make a couple of harmless-looking edits, then when people question them on the talk page he goes into a rage. He is completely unable to respect or listen to consensus. When I was a relative newbie, he completely flamed me for disagreeing with him on Chopin's birthdate and attempting to get consensus on that talk page, and this began with relatively harmless comments on the talk page. In addition, my understanding is that he is a permanently banned user, despite not having gone through ArbCom, and that permanently banned users are generally banned from making edits even to correct spelling, and that in order to discourage them from returning and further causing disruption, edit warring, and filling the Recent changes page with Squids, they should be immediately reverted, and their IP blocked. Of course, if you disagree with me and would like me to change my behaviour, just let me know, and I will completely respect that. Cheers, Mak (talk) 15:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've not followed it, but I think that vandal is an old one like willy, the communist, or the pelican vandal, and so I'm amazed if it's still the same person. It's my belief that a lot of these famous ones stopped and now just have copycats. DyslexicEditor 21:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you have a point, but the edits in question had nothing to do with Squids, and everything to do with the old bones the guy likes to chew on, like Rocky Marciano, for some reason. I believe the edit Jimbo is questioning is this. I really doubt copycats have the knowledge and will to argue about these things. I didn't particularly care about the content of this particular edit. I just thought it would be best not to encourage him. He's been editing a good bit today too, but I guess I won't do anything until I hear from Jimbo. Have the Communism Vandal and the others gone through ArbCom? Mak (talk) 22:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I should clarify that I meant my question literally, in the sense of gathering Makemi's opinion, it was not an implicit order or request, just a thought. Makemi gave me a very sensible answer, and I leave it to individual judgment of course. Just be aware that I get rather a large amount of email from this individual detailing every single alleged injustice against him. :) --Jimbo Wales 17:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Website using WP content without following GFDL

http://www.ivysport.com/ This site has copied over Ivy League related articles, but mentions nowhere any kind of licensing from Wikipedia. I'm not sure what can or should be done about this. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 16:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide a page on Wikipedia and a page on that site that both contain GFDL copyrighted material? WAS 4.250 22:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
All of their articles on the Ivy League schools and the Ivy League itself are clearly copied from Wikipedia. See their content on the Ivy League and compare to Ivy League. Look at their page on Brown University Or their page on Cornell. Same for the rest of the Ivy schools. It's pretty blatant, down to even much of the formatting. I worked on several of these articles and have seem them shaped over time and long discussions, so it's certainly not the case that the Wikipedia articles are copyvios. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 22:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is a clear case of copyright violation by ivysport. In cases like this the Wikipedia Foundation paid legal talent contacts them and they usually eventually see the virtue of complying with our copyright license as it is the only thing that gives them the right to distribute significant amounts of Wikipedia content in the first place. WAS 4.250 23:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since Wikipedia is "open", He has the right to use Wikipedia's content however he wants. Issac Dick 20:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to our GFDL policy licence he/she certainly does not. Credit must be attributed to wikipedia to ensure the contributor's right to acknowledge thier insertions. "He has the right to use Wikipedia's content however he wants". Wherever did you get that idea..? -ZeroTalk 20:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is a copyright licence; not a "policy". The copyright of any specific material on wikipedia belongs to the contributor and not to the wikipedia foundation. The GFDL is a copyright license that lets both wikipedia and anyone else make copies that would otherwise violate copyright law. WAS 4.250 22:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Because GFDL is supposed to give anyone the freedom to do whatever he wants with the wikipedia content he downloaded onto his own computer. If GFDL does not give him such freedom, then GFDL is wrong, not him. Issac Dick 20:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Copyright law does not prevent anyone from doing what they want with honestly obtained copies of copyrighted material in the privacy of their own home so long as your copies stay in your home and are not copied and distributed to others thereby impacting the copyright holder. WAS 4.250 22:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GFDL is supposed to give anyone the freedom to do whatever he wants with [licensed content]. Actually, no, it was never supposed to allow that. GFDL is pretty well known as a "viral" license meaning that it propogates by allowing GFDL content to be used only if the new work also is released under the GFDL. GFDL is wrong, not him. A choice was made by Jimbo Wales, et al, to license contributions under the GFDL; editors contribute their works with the understanding that it falls under the GFDL. If someone doesn't follow the conditions of the license, s/he is breaking the terms of contract and subject to the legal consequences. That certainly doesn't make this person "right" and the license "wrong". --Chan-Ho (Talk) 22:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I recently looked down at the bottom of one of the articles copied here and found it clearly states the source is from Wikipedia. The other replicated pages, such as this one also are sourced. This may have been done recently, but is there still an issue concerning copyrights if the source is given? Cowman109Talk 23:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hm...that's interesting. The first two pages I found (see the links above) through Google were on the Ivy League and Cornell, and they definitely did not (and still do not) have those notices. It's possible I only looked at the bottom for references to Wikipedia on the exact two that didn't have the notice and didn't note the others had it (I only checked the others to verify they looked like Wikipedia duplicates).
In any case, they're not in full compliance with the GFDL, because it's not enough to just have a notice. For one thing, as someone mentioned above, they must provide a list of contributors, which they definitely do not. Well, I guess I'm content as long as they mention Wikipedia. I only brought this up to learn a little about how (and if) Wikipedia responds to these things. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 00:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"In cases like this the Wikipedia Foundation paid legal talent contacts them and they usually eventually see the virtue of complying with our copyright license as it is the only thing that gives them the right to distribute significant amounts of Wikipedia content in the first place." Not to be too rude, but this is completely wrong. The Wikimedia foundation does not own copyright on any articles so the can not enforce the GFDL. It is contributors like me who write and send such letters; to help, see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. Also, websites rarely comply with such requests, rather than usually. Superm401 - Talk 03:47, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jolene Sugarbaker

You asked that no one reinsert the real name of the comic that plays this character without an unimpeachable source. Please review the source that I found on the talk page of the article - does it pass muster? I would change the article myself, but I am concerned that I would be violating some policy. Clarifier 18:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


harsch sentence

i know you have been bloking many people that why i've decided to come here. it's not the time to consider a shorter sentence(sort of amnesty) for good comportement(behavior) for those who have been blocked indefinitely?i've found very severe to block somebody indefinitely or more than 6 months.Felisberto20May2006(UTC)

O RLY?

It appears as if I am going to make you part of an ongoing internet phenomeon. My apologies if you feel as if I violated your privacy. Please don't hurt me or any members of my family.

--D-Day(Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?) 14:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

newspaper article about WP Newport News, James city Virginia

A reporter and photographer from the Daily Press newspaper in Newport News, Virginia came to our home near Williamsburg yesterday afternoon, and interviewed me, and photographed me and Mom for a story on Wikipedia and my work.

The reporter considers me something of a historian on local history and transportation subjects. I explained off the record that my bus company situation is still in litigation, and I didn't want it included in story. (It went belly up in 2004).

Story set to run Monday, May 22 in Spotlight section. Keep your fingers crossed story is complimentary and reasonably accurate. I dont know if this feature is opart of the paper which they publsih online, but I will try to scan the article of it isn't. Hopefully, good press for WP. Thought you would want to know.

Mark in Historic Triangle of Virginia, Vaoverland 22:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

News story. Kotepho 08:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pile-on Smiles

—G.He has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

—G.He 23:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Create a page

Could you please ask someone to create a page for Amokolia www.amokolia.com (if you go PLEASE sign the guestbook thanks cartman4000

Done. See Amokolia, and please feel free to add whatever improvements you see fit. Jimpartame 03:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Somebody's trying to delete it now, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amokolia, so check out the article while you still can. Jimpartame 07:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Amokolia turned out to be a hoax. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amokolia for details. --John Nagle 18:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

brian peppers

um, hi, i know that this isn't considered an "encyclopedic" topic by many wikizealots, but i just have reeeeeeeaaaalllllly been wondering why Brian Peppers is down. i mean, what good does that do for wikipedia? how does this help? if the article was unverified or in bad condition somehow, why can't we just make a new one? at the very least, we could have a redirect to the Internet Phenomenon page. it struck me as extremely bizarre for wikipedia to not have an article on this. Joeyramoney 05:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If we had an article about Brian Peppers, Jimbo Wales might get sued. That's a bad thing. Jimpartame 05:47, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
serious? details, girlfriend! Joeyramoney 05:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't around when it happened, but what I heard was, Brian Peppers saw the article about him, decided it was libelous, and threatened to sue Jimbo. That's why he took it down and won't let anybody write anything new. Jimpartame 06:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to this Jimbo said:

"I quite properly speedied it as a recreation of content which had already been properly deleted per AfD. You can't just keep recreating things over and over hoping to get the result you want out of an AfD. The multiple AfD's should have never happened in the first place."
"The only "Jimbo" thing I did was to basically say: cool it for awhile. I'll gladly consider shortening the cooling period if positive recent developments to our policy on biographies of living persons are shaped into a form that gets huge community consensus and gives us a better way to deal with these issues than the nonsense of repeated AfD battles. That way lies madness.--Jimbo Wales 03:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)" - Quote provided by WAS 4.250 13:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right. This was not a legal issue in any way, it was a community issue. A huge brawl was brewing over something absolutely unimportant, and procedure had already been ignored and I felt we were on the verge of a totally absurd wheel war over it. The rumors, detailed above, of a legal threat from Brian Peppers are totally untrue. --Jimbo Wales 17:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Oy, this is much longer than I'd intended it to be) And that's the part that concerns some of us; where Wikipedia is not open to civil action (as, for example, in our having an article, even a biased one, about Brian Peppers), WP:OFFICE oughtn't to be used. OFFICE protections/deletions undertaken lest Wikipedia should be sued are one thing; surely those who donate to the Foundation don't desire that their contributions should be used to fight every prospective legal battle, and we would do well temporarily to protect pages in order that our article should not leave the foundation open to suit (of course, it is exceedingly rare that the Foundation should be open to suit). Where an action is taken by Jimbo, either consistent with OFFICE or with his other powers, only to quell community unrest or to insulate Wikipedia from public criticism (I understand the former to have been more relevant here), we are simply faced with Jimbo's substituting his judgment for that of the community. Jimbo, to be sure, is usually eminently deliberate and deferential in acting as the ultimate Wikipedian, but, in this instance, I think he erred; the solution to our debating stridently and vociferously (and perhaps disruptively) apropos of the propriety of our having an article is not less talk but more. Jimbo's intimation, for example, that polemical userboxes are, on the whole, exorbitantly disruptive, has convinced many users to abandon their divisive userboxes, and, even as debates continue w/r/to userboxes, several proposals to resolve finally the situation are now drawing considerable community support; though some users are unlikely ever to compromise, most users do not desire that one issue should disrupt the project and so will work collegially and collectively to ameliorate problems. We surely don't want to go down the road of removing every article over which substantial portions of the Wikipedia community disagree (we'd be left with far fewer than our 1M+ articles); it is much better that we should encourage further collaboration. Here, the issue was either (a) that the Peppers article was dividing the community so severely that its being removed, even as it might harm the encyclopedia by removing a sourced article, was on the whole better for the project or (b) that Jimbo construed WP:NN and WP:NOT to mean that Peppers oughtn't to have a biographical article here. The former leads us down a slippery slope, while the latter simply represents the imposition of the view of one to the exclusion of the views of many. Jimbo rightfully and properly steps into certain situations here, but I would hope he'd refrain from insinuating himself into simple disputes over notability/verifiability, at least in any capacity other than as an everyday editor, and I fear he may have acted otherwise here. Nevertheless, I don't believe that our not having a Brian Peppers article means that the project has failed, and so I continue to edit and enjoy; to the extent that Jimbo's action was simply meant to remind us (I should say I wasn't really involved in the Peppers discussions; they predated my coming here) that we're here to create and benefit from an encyclopedia, not to debate the minutiae of policy or to quarrel over an individual article. Notwithstanding that I believe biographies of living people ought not to be treated in a fashion different from that in which we treat most of our articles, such that we absolutely ought not, contra Jimbo, to care about the effects of our disseminating accurate and sourced information (we are, after all, disinterested and dispassionate encyclopedists), I understand that a consensus exists for our editing consistent with some sense of the harm limitation principle (though cf. the rejected Wikiethics and WP:NOT EVIL); I don't, though, think that the judgment of Jimbo is necessarily superior to that of a collection of editors. Joe 23:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Addressing the concern of Joeyramoney, and inasmuch as Peppers is mentioned on the meme page, I wonder whether we might consider unprotecting Brian Peppers and redirecting it per Joeyramoney; thereafter the page can again be protected. Joe 23:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the redirect would be a good idea. This graph from Google Trends certainly suggests Brian Peppers isn't going to be forgotten very soon. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 00:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


There's plenty of info about him on uncyclopedia, wikitruth, encyclopediadramatica, and ytmnd if you want to learn who he is. DyslexicEditor 21:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

3RR on sandbox?

Do you think the 3RR (three-revert rule) applies on the sandbox pages (such as Wikipedia:Sandbox)? If you know the details, reply on my talk page. Thanks! -- Dimequarterback 20:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Video Games guides on Wikibooks

In this edit http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Wikibooks:What_is_Wikibooks&diff=prev&oldid=434945 you said "Wikibooks is not a repository for video game manuals ". The effort to move these books to a different project has been going well, I moved all the books I wrote to my own wiki. Another user (Garrett) has been active in moving the rest to strategywiki which uses the GFDL. The problem is, some Wikibooks users have started to question the moves, you can see the disscussion here.

Garrett has raised the question "Is this the Foundation speaking, or is it only Jimbo?". Could you please go to Wikibooks and join the discussion. The moving of books has been put on hold until this is sorted out.

I myself have just grabbed the 300+ Pokémon pages (which I believe are not covered by the GFDL because they are lists and tables of factual data), and the Wikibooks versions are ready to be deleted. (Which took nearly 24 hours)! The sooner you respond, the sooner they can be deleted and we can all move on with our lives. Thanks, Gerard Foley 23:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would say, this will be the end of wikipedia.de

Hi Mr.Wales , here´s some stuff (not complete) only from today. For a short summary ask de: Benutzer:Elian or de:Benutzer:Henriette Fiebig. See you tomorrow and aftertomorrow with new disgusting stuff.

Cheers 23:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


I would say, this could rather be the end of Hans Bug: de:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/Hans_Bug_nicht_mehr_sperren. That's one small click for an admin, one giant leap for de.wikipedia. Cheers! --NoAOL 14:46, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


  • Hi Mr.Wales, today is Monday - Day 2. Here´s a collection of new disgusting stuff from de. (btw.: sometimes I think, I and about 10 users more are the only, who write articles (but that might be subjective)

Cheers. See you tomorrow 23:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)




btw. Germany was voted rank 15 in the Eurovision Song Contest 2006. And this might be the rank of wikipedia.de currently too. Typical: Number 5 from Lithuania de:We Are The Winners is said to be not relevant (by the losers :-)).(VfD)

Who the....?

Excuse me, Mr. Wales, I know you're busy but who the heck deleting the userboxes page. Are you planning to eliminate them or something? Thanks for listening. GANDALF1992 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply] 

                                            ~Ron~

Juan Cole page

Hi, I just saw your comments to me on the Juan Cole page. I feel kind of crushed, actually, because I very much respect the project and have been trying to do good quality edits in good faith here. Elizmr 00:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So I just read what I wrote again, and respectfully have to say that I can't see that it is such a mockery:

The NPOV policy states that everything must be written from neutral point of view. Conflicting views should all be presented in a fair neutral tone. The article doesn't come down on any side; the reader is left to judge for his/her self. The article should not be overtly sympathetic or negative towards the subject of the article. We should describe the debate that exists regarding Cole here as fully as we can. One of the great advantages of Wikipedia to a single author source, is that we can have different individuals or "camps" describing different sides of a debate.

Elizmr, with all due respect, this is a mockery of what Wikipedia stands for. The original statement, which you say is at odds with Wikipedia, is a far more accurate summary of NPOV. NPOV is not about warring camps adding POV bits to an article and hoping against hope that it comes out ok in the end. It is absolutely correct to say that it is not the job of Cole's fans to balance out the article, and also absolutely correct to say that if you or anyone else is unwilling to invest time finding responses to critiques, then they should recuse themselves from the article.--Jimbo Wales 21:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for using the word "camps" --it was a particularly bad choice of words. What I was trying to say is that different authors who understand various nuances of the dialog the best can describe it most cogently and accurately. Of note, the only really contentious article that I have edited on Wikipedia in the past was the one on MEMRI, which was very much of an attack piece and I went in and tried to find stuff to balance the attacks out rather than insist that they be removed (because I thought that the attacks were a valid piece of the dialog).

This is the next piece of what I wrote and your reply:

Regarding your earlier statement, "The Cole detractors editing this page are using a lawyer's technique of putting up scurrilous charges like anti-semitism that are based on conjecture in order to tarnish Cole in the eyes of the "jury" (ie a casual reader not familiar with the subject)," I would refer you to another Wikipedia policy, WP:AGF. This policy asks us to give each other the benefit of the doubt that we are all working here for the good of Wikipedia, eg, on this article, to present a full multidimensional view of Juan Cole. Working under the assumption that "Cole detractors" are "putting up scurrilous charges like antisemitism" in order to "tarnish cole" is kind of assuming bad faith on the part of the "Cole detractors", isn't it? Assuming good faith would be to give other editors the benefit of the doubt that they are putting this stuff in because they consider it a relevant piece of the dialog on Cole. But remember, just because a scholar says that Cole is "x" for reasons "y" and "z", that doesn't mean Cole is "x" or not--that is left to the reader. Again, welcome to Wikipedia, and as you begin to edit on pages like this where emotions are high I hope you can begin by remembering that we are all on the same team here--we are Wikipedians--not Cole supporters or Cole detractors. Elizmr 23:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Assuming good faith is important, of course. However, it is pretty hard to read the version of the article being complained about and characterize it in any other way. Note well: I am not a fan of Prof. Cole.--Jimbo Wales 21:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Jimbo has spoken. Articles protected put under heavy manners by Jimbo, Danny, WP:OFFICE inlcude Alan Dershowitz, Christopher Ruddy, NewsMax.com. All now read like hagiographies. We can all assume good faith, but let's not be naive. - Xed 10:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Gee, Xed, all three of those articles are open for editing. If you don't like them, go edit them. Lying to people about their status does not help your already sad reputation for wild accusations.--Jimbo Wales 23:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And risk an indefinte ban for breaking some unknown rule by admins made trigger happy by months of playing first-person-shooter with their blocking powers against evil doers taking advantage of "everyone can edit"? (I do not envy your choices. Limit editing enough so the warrier mentality is not needed and people think the sky is falling. Don't limit editing that much and what other choice is there but to let those who enjoy first-person shooter games shoot their blocks at the vandals?) WAS 4.250 23:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Jimbo says Let them eat cake. - Xed 23:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lying? Now that's irony. - Xed 23:14, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If an article were "under heavy manners" that would indicate that they were in a state of emergency where normal rules no longer apply. As Jimbo pointed out, these articles are no longer protected and anyone is free to edit them as long as they stick to the usual policies and guidelines. So yes, lying. jaco♫plane 23:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's not really true. Two of the articles have "scare notices" on them. - Xed 23:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, well I didn't notice that the two articles were still semiprotected, I only looked at the Dershowitz article. Still, the "scare notices" as you call them specifically state that standard policies apply to the editing of the page. jaco♫plane 23:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For the Dershowitz story you have to read the Talk page. -Xed 10:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the below. I am just speaking for myself, but I was acting in good faith. Elizmr 12:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly have to say that although I don't know the other editors on the page, I don't think anyone was trying to purposely tarnish cole by putting stuff on the page they didn't believe was true. I personally only put stuff up that I felt was an important part of a three dimensional portrait of Cole on Wikipedia. He has said some very controversial things and takes a quite controversial tone on his blog; this is part of who he is. I also edited in the sandbox version quite a bit in order to achieve NPOV, although the version now has moved away from this quite a bit. I am a person of integrity and am speaking with complete honestly here. I do think that I deserve an assumption of good faith.

I will recuse myself from editing on the Juan Cole page now. Elizmr 01:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

locked Juan Cole Page

Being a new user, I am not familiar with the WP chain of command or process of appeal. I believe you are high in the administrator ladder.

This is not a matter of taking sides but for the good of the WP community. The following comment gives you the flavor of what is going on in a nutshell. Also, I know you are already familiar with the article.

"Stub it and then block the stub. The damage is a continuing damage as new readers come to the site. In fact each day the damage progresses. It's just a matter of time until a national or international media picks up the news. Like they did the Cuba article. I can see the bylline. "NeoKon Likudniks hijack Juan Cole WP article and get it locked against balancing edits. Tar him as anti-semite b/c of his forceful and effective criticism of repressive Israeli occupation of Palestinians and American heavy handed Iraq occupation. They are also concerned about his moderating stance toward the Iran war stampede." Take Care!--Will314159 16:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)"

The problem is the article is locked in a prejudical mode, no consensus can be achieved, yet the administrator in charge, who won't identify himself, won't stub the protected article and leaves the offending article up. Take Care!--Will314159 18:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It just seems so common sense to 1) take the non-neutral article down, 2) put up a protected stub, and 3) work on a new version at liesure. What am I missing? I am beginning to appreciate articulating in a NPOV point of view. Have to overcome years of legal advocacy habit. Take Care!--Will314159 19:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

To answer one or two minor points: 1) Jimbo is, de facto, in charge of the project, and he can impose anything he wants (subject only theoretically to disapproval by the Board), so saying he's "high in the administrator ladder" is correct but something of an understatement; on the other hand 2) he generally isn't acting in the capacity of head honcho unless specifically noted; 3) there's not really a ladder of administrators, but rather Jimbo/Danny/the Board/the Foundation generally at the top, and every other user largely equal (although administrators are given more technical powers, they theoretically aren't given more authority); 4) you can verify at Special:Logs that User:Mysekurity was the one who protected the page, in response to a request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection; and 5) if you want the page unprotected, the place to ask is Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, but it's unlikely that it will be unprotected until the argument on the talk page is resolved. Hope that helps. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 03:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you a "Muslim editor" ?

If not, then you are not entitled to "leave any message here": [2]

Zeq 08:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody owns any page. You can't tell someone not to edit a page unless you're an administrator/ArbCom member enforcing a ban, really. --Lord Deskana Dark Lord of the Sith 09:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

shouldn't you state the policy and ask to have it removed before enforcing a ban ???? what happened to encouraging participation???

Are you talking about me? I've not enforced any ban. I'm not sure I really understand your questions. --Lord Deskana Dark Lord of the Sith 18:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


w00t w00t

Yay! I reverted (possible) vandalism on Jimbo Wales' userpage! Hope you don't mind. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 00:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Jimbo

I don't know if you saw it in my email, so I'll repeat here, just for good measure... When will you next be available on IRC, mate? We need to thrash out details of our agreement and my statement. NSLE (T+C) at 01:01 UTC (2006-05-24)

By Permission Only Images to be deleted

I Do not understand other admins interpretations of your decisions. [3].

This seems to be talking about how if you can find an alternative you should replace the image, However, I have seen this Policy being applied beyond when a free alternative is impractical and Offends the Copyright holder even more.

Specifically in the UserSpace Zone in combination with fair use. Please see the talks of these images for examples.

Image:User browser firefox.png as a replacement for Image:Firefox-logo.png

and Image:Uncyclopedia_logo.png When a free alternative is not practical and

Is their some policy about misinterpreting what you say?

I feel Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy for this very reason. I am sorry to involve you in this issue but I can't stand when people keep quoting everything you say and claim it means something unrelated. You are a reasonable person, however some of your followers will take what you say unconditionally with the least respect to the our community. I am approaching you because this is about what you said. I can't reason with somebody who say Jimbo say this or Jimbo said that. It seams Impracticable to involve you in every dispute. Can you make some statement so we can free the minds of people who are encapsulated by the belief that you have the final word on everything. PS. Don't you also own Uncyclopedia? (outside of the sense that everybody owns the wiki)--E-Bod 03:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

None of the images you link to are {{permission}} or {{noncommercial}}. The Listserv post you quote is totally irrelevant to them. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:00, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They cannot use the template because they are uploaded after May 19, 2005. And yes. That is my Point. "The Listserv post you quote is totally irrelevant to them" however admins are assuming this is the rule. I need a statement from Jimbo because i was told

Wikipedia does not accept specific permission to use images (Jimbo has personally intervened on this matter), so it is only usuable under fair use. ed g2s • talk 01:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC) Quoted by --E-Bod 04:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My Point is that this Listserv post is being misused and only Jimbo himself can tell Ed this. Image_talk:User_browser_firefox.png May be a bad Example but Image talk:Uncyclopedia logo.png uses this list server as evidence and refuses to discuss the issue because he believes Jimbo said XY & Z. Personally i do not believe a Listserv is a policy. I totally agree with you. This issue is irrelevant and that is exactly why I need Jimbo to make some statement about misusing his listserv. I don't think their is a template to allow special permission for use on user space. I will be more than happy to make one but I need some grounds to defend the template or else people who remove fair use from user space will jump all over me.--E-Bod 04:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am really upset with Ed now. He holds others to higher standards than he hold himself as i will talk about on User_talk:Ed_g2s#Fair_use_Disgrace I Might regret this latter I do regre this i am pponting to an old issue several yers ago but Numerous people have had issues with this user removing fair use images in questionable situations but now i find out he still hasn't removed all fair use images from his userspace after i told him about it(and I was blocked for WP:POINT without a warning or a notice i was blocked by a arbitrator who met him at a wikimeeting in real life). I have not yet given him a chance to respond yet so my opinion is very one sided. This user is very bad at confronting fair use violators yet is is one of the biggest Fair use Violators to date. This is unacceptable and i think he should lose admin privileges. He has received numerous complaints already. I take back my first statement. This is the only User I have heard miss quote your e-mail.--E-Bod 02:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Permission to use an image only on Wikipedia is not sufficient for its use, nor is permission to use an image only for noncommercial purposes (yes, even on userpages). The relevant permission for Image:Uncyclopedia logo.png is (currently) "I'd like to allow the logo to be used for Wikipedia userpages, userboxes, etc. - in other words, as "decoration" for Wikipedians." That's {{permission}} and thus unacceptable; unless it's released under an acceptable license, it can't be used except under fair use. Likewise for the Firefox logo, etc. I don't understand what your difficulty is.

I misspoke when I said the Listserv post was irrelevant. It's entirely relevant, insofar as it indicates that the images must be fair-use. I just glanced at them, saw that they weren't {{permission}}/{{noncommercial}}, and figured it wasn't applicable; I was incorrect. It is, and I'm not sure why you think it's not. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lets put this whole episode in historical perspective.
On 5 January 2006, the Policy tag was added to the Wikipedia:Fair use criteria page. There was no debate about this. The one user who added this vaguly mentioned he did this because of a conversation with Jimbo, but when pressed, avoided the question and provided nothing. This one user did not follow: Wikipedia:How to create policy#How to propose a new policy.
The first debate, to my knowlege, about fair use was with TSBY regarding Time magazine and fair use images. He took an email from Jimbo and overstepped the bounds of the the email, deleting the images without using the normal channels. This caused a firestorm and a RfC found here: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Ta bu shi da yu 2.
Then there is the case of Ed. Ed began deleting images from user's userpages. When I asked him to provide where he was getting this authority to do this, he ignored my question.[4] At least TSBY had an e-mail from Jimbo (albiet he was interpreting wrong). Ed doesn't even have this. It is as if admin one day decided to delete thousands of images with no consensus and no direction. Ed is creating discontent and anger on wikipedia.Travb (talk) 11:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry For the report on ed. That actually was an out of date report. Back to the issue. I have not seen on any policy page that we are not allowed to obtain permission. Infact most pages just say it would be a waste of time but does not forbid it. secondly this this quote from Jimbo is the only place i can find the issue please point me to it and this quote says (This is a standard photo of the Mission District in San Francisco -- getting a free alternative will be simple.) If you fallow the spirit of this post and not the rule I interpret what Jimbo is saying as When a free alternative is easily obtained their is no reason to use an image with permission.

However I infer that when an alternative is not possible to obtain then permission can be granted for the use of the image past fair use. I can't make an alternative Uncyclopidia image because it would have to have the same rights as the origin because it would be a derivative. an image. When the user says we can use it and the spirit of the rules do not forbid it there is not reason for use to get caught up on the technicalities of rules that are not addressing the issue.--E-Bod 21:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are missing the bigger picture. Images that only Wikipedia have permission to use is not compatable with the GFDL license Wikipedia is released under. We simply can not accept content that is more restrictive than GFDL with regards to who can use it for what (that's my understanding anyway). Aparently (properly used) fair use content can be compatable with GFDL to some extent, but not always wich is why we have a fairly strict fair use policy too. Your permission wold make the image legaly free to use on Wikipedia, sure, but Wikipedia is not a project to build a great website, it's a project to make free content available to anyone, this Wiki is just the tool we use to make this content, and in that context it makes no sense to add content that can only be use on the Wikipedia website, and I don't see why it would be worth complicating our license situation by starting allowing it either. --Sherool (talk) 21:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. You are the First person I have encountered to actually address the issue I am bringing up. However Your Legal concerns do not address the 2 instances I am talking about. My particular Issue is For use on User space. The issue is that Images listened free for Non Commercial Purposes [5] are not allowed on Wikipedia Despite Wikipedia being a Nonfor profit image. I am talking about General Permission that would apply to sight beyond Wikipedia. For instance The Uncyclopedia logo has permission to be used as decoration and is licensed uner [6] so we have every legal right to use it. Now if your concern is if we or somebody else wanted to sell the Encyclopedia then we may have problems, however Userspace is not going to be included on a sold copy of this encyclopedia. The Issue Is that the image is licensed for me to use it a certain way. I want to use it that way. If it wasn’t licensed I could still make a Fair use Claim. The user has Given permission. And the only thing stopping it is this That Wikipedia has put additional restrictions past the legal ones saying it won’t use Images licensed for non Commercial use and so the image is put into the Fair use category. I can’t make my foar use claim because we won’t allow it on userspace and I have permission to use it but we won’t accept that ether because People are Quoting Jimbo saying we can’t obtain permission but we fail to quote the whole thing that continues to add when No free alternative is obtainable. We are 100% legally allowed to use it. We just Have People who will not take the spirit of the rules into consideration. The problem is that several rules that should not apply to all circumstances are baing miss applied. Of one of these rules were clarified I would instantly be able to use the image on my userspace--E-Bod 22:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have since found something that Does not Quite work as an alternative but is a temporary fix until this fair use Thing gets clarified User:Yskyflyer/save My clam is that this Image is used for Identification purposes. Mirror sights would still be allowed to use the image--E-Bod 22:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quick clarification of image commerciality

If we receive permission from, say, Mozilla to use the Firefox logo for any nondisparaging purpose that does not compete with Mozilla merchandise, is that a "no commercial" license unacceptable for our use (outside fair use), or is it a free license? It would mean that in the context of any kind of mirror, reproduction, modification, etc. of Wikipedia, the image would be usable; you'd have to actually do something like print it onto a T-shirt and sell it to violate the terms of use. Should we use that or fair use? —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And how would we enforce the bit about "nondisparaging purpose"s? The policy as I understand it is that such permissions don't matter; it's still an unfree image, usable only under fair use. Yes, that means that combined with the strict fair-use policies, you can't use them on user pages. Yes, that has deeply hurt many people's feelings. I'm not sure why they don't get some free web hosting space to build the home page they really want, but that's just me. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is this a userpage or a Village pump? My question was about not allowing permission. Your' telling me I am not allowed to use images with permission is exactly what I want Jimbo to Clarify. I asked Jimbo as a last resort. I expect him to answer.--E-Bod 04:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why would I want to talk about
  1. Relevant wikipedia articles
  2. How I edit wikipidia
  3. Where I have a Conflict of interest when editing a wikipedia article
on a free web hosting space. My userspace is to help me use wikipedia. I can't edit wikipedia on a free web hosting space. Anyway this is the wrong place to talk about this issue. I know what WP:NOT and your comment is irrelevant.--E-Bod 05:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you want I can Explain how I can use Permission company logos in each of these examples. Don't take one policy and claim it says something different. That is the point i am bringing to Jimbo about a point he made that may be misused by admins. You are simply a user with tools. Policies should be stated outright without room for interpretation or lack consideration for unaddressed issues.--E-Bod 05:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's unlikely Jimbo will answer you. He doesn't answer most talk-page questions. Mostly, yes, this is a village pump.

Anyway, on consideration, I've retagged the image as {{logo}}. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 04:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hello jimbo i need help

kevin1243 is not leting me put a criticims part on the tommorow book series page it is his favourite series and he will not let me put the criticisms on everytime i do he deletes them vandalises my user page or makes up stories to try get me blocked please help jim

The truth about the tomorrow series must be heard

please reply to user talk: carbine (post made by User:Smugface the untrustworthy dwarf)

Tdxiang's song!

My song, sir! Hope you guys like it. :D-- 陈鼎翔 贡献 Chat with Tdxiang on IRC! 10:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AfD reform

Hi. I don't believe as many people review Template:Cent as they do this page, so I'm using it to bring attention to my proposal for AfD reform. El_C 12:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to present this information, but the free wiki-host ElWiki uses the Wikipedia Globe logo combined with the text "ElWiki Knowledgebases" as the default Wiki.png file on new wikis. Basically, they're taking the copywritten logo and not attributing it to Wikipedia or Wikimedia. -- Chris Ccool2ax contrib. 21:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, here's a direct example of what he's talking about. GarrettTalk 22:20, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If that wiki changes the logo, I can get a copy... which reminds me: I really should change my ElWiki logo about now. -- Chris Ccool2ax contrib. 13:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement on elimination of anon voting?

Hi Jimbo, I have a question for you. On Talk:George Washington, someone recently suggested the article should be permanently protected from unregistered users due to persistent vandalism. Terence Ong mentioned that people have suggested protecting the entire Wiki from anonymous editing, but that you had "said no" to previous attempts.

The only reason I raise the issue is because Kaiwen1 has a poll going on whether to ban anon editing, the results of which he's planning to forward to the Board of Trustees. I'm still pretty new here, so I don't know exactly how much authority you, personally, wield over issues like this. Is Kaiwen1's vote a waste of time? I'm curious as to what you have said in the past that Terence Ong remembers so clearly. I asked Terence , but he never replied.

(Full disclosure: I'm against blocking anon editing, and voted so on Kaiwen1's page.)

Kasreyn 23:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Similarities

Between your talk page and Fraggle Rock#The Trash Heap are uncanny! Just an observation... Cheers -- Samir धर्म 03:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Wikipedia:Fair use criteria being policy

Do you approve of the current Wikipedia:Fair use criteria being policy. I know you are busy. A simple "yes" or "no" would be great.

Thank you for your time, Travb (talk) 13:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A simple "yes" would be great if that's your answer, but if your answer is "no", it would be nice to know why not. (For example, do you think the policy is too strict, or too lenient?) Angr (t • c) 16:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also A clarification On Images used with permission when a free alternative is not possible to obtain as in the case of logos. Any free alternative would still be a derivative.--E-Bod 21:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Game guides on Wikibooks

Given the harmless nature of such guides are you sure that they should be banned from Wikibooks? They are contained in their own section, the distinction between games such as Doom and Chess is debatable and, in the last couple of years it has become possible to actually trade inside games see Business week story. The users at Wikibooks are definitely uneasy about the ban. My userid is RobinH at Wikibooks.

Drawing the line seems very easy to me. There is a simple question: can you point to a course at an accredited institution which uses this sort of thing as a textbook? I think there are college courses on chess. I think there are not college courses on Doom. Simple. Some people may not like that Wikibookians do not want Wikibooks to be a dumping ground for whatever doesn't fit in Wikipedia. But we have a charitable mission, and we need to respect that. --Jimbo Wales 21:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you totally boss.(Considering I don't edit on Wikibooks), but your statement there might get met with controversy, as there ARE some college courses based on pop culture, like video games. All I'm saying is I don't want that to be another CSD T1. --D-Day(Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?, on WHEELS?!) 21:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if there are courses, then there can be textbooks. :) --Jimbo Wales 22:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We have the Doom Wiki with plenty of room for Doom strategy information. And if there isn't a Wikia about your favorite game, you can go there and start it. As much as I like games, game guides just aren't part of Wikimedia's mission. Fredrik Johansson 23:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about the b:Muggles' Guide to Harry Potter, which I put up for deletion? Gerard Foley 00:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I imagine it would depend. Are there classes that would use an annotated look at Harry Potter? If so, it would be valid. If not, it may need to go. On a side note, we gonna ask Jimbo on every book we put up deletion? ;-) --You Know Who (Dark Mark) 00:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, as was discussed on WP:CVG, "the StrategyWiki team (including myself) have made preparations to import all suitable videogame guides. This is not going to be a half-hearted history cut-'n'-paste like transwiki bots do either, instead the authentic full edit histories will be imported directly from database dumps thanks to the excellent MWDumper." (Comment was made by Garrett). I think that this would be an ideal situation. If at some point in the future colleges do start to give courses teaching students to become "professional gamers" or something, they could always be re-imported using a similar technique. jaco♫plane 01:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Idea

Jimbo, I'm testing out an idea and I'd be interested in your feedback. Wikipedia has many great and long articles. Many vistors to the site however may simply be looking for very short snappy summaries. I've created an infobox called synopsis which could be placed near to the table of contents, to contain a two or three line synopsis of the article. For example

Template:Infobox synopsis

Any opinions on the idea? FearÉIREANN\(caint) 01:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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