User talk:Jimbo Wales

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Wanna write an article?

If anybody is bored, Regis Groff, Colorado State Senator from 1974 to 1994, Senate President in 2008, and one of the first black legislators in that state (per THIS in the Denver Post) died recently. That's a red link that needs to go blue. Carrite (talk) 15:57, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Created by User:Nikkimaria; enlarged and buffed by User:Carrite and others. [1] --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:31, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Finding the right balance

Jimbo, I'm sure you are aware of the recent leaks of private nude images of celebrities, popularly called "The Fappening" but referred to here as the 2014 celebrity photo leaks. Wikipedia has dealt with the leaks in a very mixed way and I'm curious if you have any thoughts about how this should be addressed in the biographies of the celebrities involved. A small number of actresses are named in 2014 celebrity photo leaks but this reportedly involves dozens of celebrities.

Apparently all we know about actress Jessica Brown Findlay's "personal life" is that private nude images of her were leaked on the internet. McKayla Maroney's biography says that "allegedly underage nude images of Maroney were published" which has implications about Maroney's participation and child pornography laws. Other actresses and models with leaked images (eg Cat Deeley) seem to have escaped having imformation about leaks added to their articles, but perhaps it is only a matter of time.

Many of the images circulating as the result of these leaks are questionable at best. Although some celebrities have confirmed that the images are genuine, many have either not commented or have explicitly denied that the images are genuine. Is it sufficient that images purported to be of a celebrity are circulating? In any case, is the "leak" of private nude images an important biographical detail? Would it be appropriate to have a List of celebrities with leaked nude images? Or would Category:Fappening victims be appropriate? Jimbo, do have thoughts on how this situation should be handled? Legit Alternate Account (talk) 16:59, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Why are you using "Legit Alternate Account"?

You've asked a lot of different questions, so I'll try to address them one by one as well as make some comments on questions that are at least partly implied.

First, I think it's appropriate to have the article 2014 celebrity photo leaks - it was and remains a newsworthy event of some at least minor historical importance. The general public will be seeking a factual summary of what is known about the incident, and we should provide that. I think it likely that someone will eventually be found and convicted for this, so I doubt if the news cycle is really over.

Second, it's a bit ridiculous to have a section entitled "Personal life" with just the one fact in it for Jessica Brown Findlay. I'm not sure of the best fix for that, but as it stands it really does seem like a good example of WP:UNDUE.

Third, for McKayla Maroney, it seems to me that the sourcing is quite weak. The linked story from Fox News says that she is "reportedly" pursuing legal action after having "previously" claiming they were fake - as if it is impossible that it could be both. The story contains no unambiguous claim from her now that the images are real. The story is a bit of a muddle and apparently a rehash from other news outlets(?). I'd prefer to see higher quality sourcing that better explains the situation, if we are to cover it at all.

Fourth, my instinct is that if someone is on the (rather long) list and if there are images allegedly circulating of them, but there has been no direct coverage (other than being included in published lists) then the impact on their life story is too negligible to mention at all. This will be a complex judgment call in some cases, but I think we should err on the side of caution.

Fifth, I don't think either the proposed article or proposed category is really a good idea. The story about the incident is fine, and even mentioning the list of victims there is fine with me (though I'm open to arguments against it).

Finally, something you didn't ask but which I think is important, I think it important that we strongly avoid casually picking up on language calling this a "scandal" for the celebrities involved. It's a crime against them and virtually every serious source that I have seen has clearly acknowledged that in the vast majority of the cases (all of them that I know about!) the behavior of the celebrities in question is not itself outside of contemporary social norms and is not generally regarded by the public as scandalous or criminal behavior. (Obviously some more conservative people will feel that way, but I don't think reliable sources suggest at all that we should treat it that way.) I've not seen us make that error, so I only mention it for a bit of completeness.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Certainly Jimbo is right in the moral sense that this is no scandal, but legally, note that, very unfortunately, children have been prosecuted for "sexting", using child pornography laws allegedly passed to protect children as a means of persecuting them - therefore WP:BLPCRIME applies to those cases (though these persons may not count as little-known). Wnt (talk) 03:43, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

I think you need a cite for "persecuted" children. If anything, it's the type of release of private photos by ex-bf/gf and it's a tool to stop it. Note that Jennifer Lawrence considered it a sex crime to look at photos of her that she did not explicitly give permission for. Considering it to be "persecution" to prevent the release of pictures of minors is rather short sighted. Actor/Actress are special types of employees that are quite different from others. There are many employees with "regular" jobs where facebook or other posts have cost them their job when what they thought was private turned out not to be. --DHeyward (talk) 06:58, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Jennifer Lawrence

I guess a lot of people have seen reports about leaked nude images of Jennifer Lawrence appearing on her Wikipedia biography. I'm not sure what could have been done to stop this, but I would expect to see the same thing happen to other female celebrities who have had their photos leaked. I haven't seen a discussion of this on any other forum here, but it might be helpful to come up with some ideas to prevent a recurrence before the next incident. Legit Alternate Account (talk) 04:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Many have been proposed like only allowing established editors make changes to BLPs. Kind of ironic that "Legit Alternate Account" would be having angst when one of the solutions is preventing alternate accounts, short term accounts or IPs from editing BLPs or uploading photos. --DHeyward (talk) 06:58, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Deletionism is Poisoning the Wells That Everyone Are Drinking From

Dear Jimbo,

I recently wrote a post on my Facebook account based on what I wrote to a deletionist who deleted Olamot Con because a different deletionist marked it for speedy deletion, before I had a chance to work on it further and address their concerns. Here is the link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:FreeRangeFrog#A_BIG_FUCK_YOU_TO_YOU.2C_SCUM_OF_THE_EARTH.21.21.21_YOU_ARE_NOT_A_GENTLEMAN.21.21.21 . Wikipedia deletionists like him are poisoning the wells of everyone and demotivate people considerably. You should speak against them NOW!!! Shlomif (talk) 08:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The deleted article had one entire sentence: "Olamot is an annual Science Fiction and Fantasy convention (“Con”) that takes place in Tel Aviv, Israel during Passover." It had two external links, one official and another link to a deeper page within the official site. If you really want to write this article, work on it more in your own user space, for instance by clicking on the following: User:Shlomif/Olamot. If you develop the article more fully in user space, with references from third parties, then it will survive speedy deletion. Binksternet (talk) 11:38, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

So you posted a message to his talk page with a title of "A BIG FUCK YOU TO YOU, SCUM OF THE EARTH!!! YOU ARE NOT A GENTLEMAN!!!", and expect any respect whatsoever to be given to your position or opinion? It wouldn't even matter if the gripe about "deletionists" was valid (it isn't), you're just going to be reverted as a troll and dismissed out of hand when you do that. Tarc (talk) 12:26, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Permalink. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:33, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no opinion about the content of the dispute because I haven't looked into it and have no intention of looking into it. This is why the expression "not here to write an encyclopedia" was invented. I wonder who was the first to say that? Barnstar-worthy.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:53, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

"This is why the expression "not here to write an encyclopedia" was invented. I wonder who was the first to say that? " -Honestly, I'd guess it was you!! You do seem far too busy to want to contribute to writing wikipedia. In fact the last article I heard you wrote was some restaurant article in South Africa back in like 2006 or something!..♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:28, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Many users often simply add to existing articles, or expand stub pages, and that is why their lists of created articles might seem too short, as with Jimbo who has expanded many articles beyond his list of created pages. -Wikid77 (talk) 22:47, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

3 articles since 2006. Exactly.♦ Dr. Blofeld 07:47, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

It's more often phrased "Not here to build an encyclopedia". It takes more than a bunch of prolific writers to build an encyclopedia. Jimmy is, among other things, our spokesperson. Influential people listen to him. Used judiciously, that access can smooth our way to our shared goal. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:00, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Jimmy is our spokesperson, but at the end of the day we are an encyclopedia and content is far more important than the politics and civility Jimmy seems more interested in. If once in a while Jimmy showed some sort of passion as an encyclopedist and genuinely seemed to have a love of encyclopedia writing and content and had more respect for editors who produce most of the decent work here (and who aren't afraid to air their concerns without rubbing his back) it would be reciprocated by many I'm sure. The budget is over $20 million and not a single cent goes into promoting actual content building which matters first and foremost. The priorities here are all wrong. Try reading User:Dr. Blofeld/Encyclopedia problems, I'm sure most would agree with it or at least part of it. I guess at least Jimmy acknowledges "We all know it's flawed. We all know we don't do as good a job as we wish we could do", but frankly I see little effort overall to try to improve many of the problems we have and the lack of real community focus on the actual encyclopedia. The leader/public face of wikipedia for me should be spending most of his time encouraging people to produce content and setting an example instead of wasting time discussing pointless politics and lecturing on how one should behave in the community. I'd like Jimmy to speak about how to write a great article and be a great encyclopedist once in a while. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 07:38, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Leader? I'm not sure Jimmy would accept that. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:54, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't he see himself as a "benevolent dictator" or a monarch?♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:58, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

A symbolic monarch whose role is just speaking the thoughts that have bubble up through the community. (Closing Ceremony with Mexico team handover 6 min 30 sec). Wikipedia is leaderless. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 09:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Speaking his thoughts, exactly. If you ask most people in public "who is Jimmy Wales?" they'll say the wikipedia guy, the founder/leader.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Goodnight, sweet prince

(For our readers/lurkers who are old and don't get it, sub Don't cry for me Argentina in for a topic title)

Looks like I have time to slip one more message in. Alas, @Jimbo Wales:, I am being tossed from your page. If "Mr. 2001" ever does have something interesting to say, you're going to have to scour your history to snatch it from the memory hole yourself. Remember the good times...when we allargued about the Muhammad images on your page, or when everyone argued on your page about Gibraltar DYK's, or when we all argued about a BLP out-out for all. Seems like there's a lot of arguing on your page. Anyways, Farewell! (and unwatching) Tarc (talk) 13:22, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

This page is 10/10 lulz. Sorry to see you go. Why not say that you're happy to abide by remedy 1.2, which is what's likely to pass, rather than assuming a complete ban from this page. Jehochman ^Talk 15:22, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok I lied, I won't unwatch until the hammer comes down for sure. 1.2 is a separate issue, and as of now has passed along with #1. I asked for clarification, that since NYB spun out a separate "Jimbo ban" vote (which failed) if that superseded the "Jimbo ban" clause from #1, but |alas, no. C'est la vie (literally, the only French I know). Tarc (talk) 15:46, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

That wasn't me (my proposal was 1.2), but meh. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:15, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

But then the Arbs have not decided that Jimbo cannot have an open door policy. So, even if you are banned from posting here by ArbCom, that ban still has the usual exceptions (as the Arbs themselves make clear) and on this page there are far more exceptions than on other pages (banned posters can in principle post here, the disute about one such posting led to that ArbCom case in the first place). Count Iblis (talk) 16:56, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, and it would be helpful if they'd clarify what an open door policy entails, and if it'd extend to banned users, but they are intent, it seems, on beating around the bush about it. KonveyorBelt 17:19, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

What are you reading on Wikipedia? (again)

I asked this before, and was quite happy to have gotten a response, so I figured since it has been around a year at least since having asked, that I would ask again, in case others are like me and curious- "What have you, Jimmy Wales, been reading up on Wikipedia lately?" Last time if I remember correctly the commonality of your answers was that they were topics brought up on the TV show Breaking Bad.Camelbinky (talk) 18:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Yesterday I had a few hours to myself and I just wanted to read, and I ended up reading a bunch of the pages linked from Unexplained disappearances. Scary stories!--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC)