Wikipedia talk:Service awards: Difference between revisions

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(Vanguard Editor (or Lord High Togneme) Image: +)
(Service awards by time and edit count?: This seems like a mind-set that if encouraged is corrosive to growing the content of the encyclopaedia - people should be trying to genuinely write —)
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:Letting people know that The Jimbo is a Tutnum will do quite a bit to demonstrate how big of an accomplishment that is. Hell, I was 'promoted' to Yeoman Editor today, and I felt great about it! [[User:Achowat|Achowat]] ([[User talk:Achowat|talk]]) 22:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 
:Letting people know that The Jimbo is a Tutnum will do quite a bit to demonstrate how big of an accomplishment that is. Hell, I was 'promoted' to Yeoman Editor today, and I felt great about it! [[User:Achowat|Achowat]] ([[User talk:Achowat|talk]]) 22:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 
::No, no, no, [[User:Herostratus]], I don't want you to think I feel like Tutnum is a horrible embarrasment. I was trying to be cute there. It didn't work. Like I said..tough crowd. But I myself have worked hard in the 5 years I have been here to establish a understanding of Wikipedia that was sufficient to enjoy it more. That really is what's important to me. Along with the occasional rare and unique discovery now and then. I like research and digging and understanding things better as I work....or play or...however it may be percieved by each of us....I guess. I enjoy it as much as play as it's a hobby and not a full time job. But I don't see myself as just "anything" on Wikipedia. I leave that to others.--[[User:Amadscientist|Amadscientist]] ([[User talk:Amadscientist|talk]]) 01:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 
::No, no, no, [[User:Herostratus]], I don't want you to think I feel like Tutnum is a horrible embarrasment. I was trying to be cute there. It didn't work. Like I said..tough crowd. But I myself have worked hard in the 5 years I have been here to establish a understanding of Wikipedia that was sufficient to enjoy it more. That really is what's important to me. Along with the occasional rare and unique discovery now and then. I like research and digging and understanding things better as I work....or play or...however it may be percieved by each of us....I guess. I enjoy it as much as play as it's a hobby and not a full time job. But I don't see myself as just "anything" on Wikipedia. I leave that to others.--[[User:Amadscientist|Amadscientist]] ([[User talk:Amadscientist|talk]]) 01:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
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This seems like a mind-set that if encouraged is corrosive to growing the content of the encyclopaedia - people should be trying to genuinely write and add to articles more, creating new ones, improving the many many many very short articles, that is far more important than edit count and much fewer people seem to do it: we need more people taking the time to sit down from the [[WP:BATTLEGROUND|watchlist patrol wars]] and genuinely writing :) --''[[User:Mistress Selina Kyle|<u>Mistress Selina Kyle</u>]] <sup>'''<span style='color:#800080;'>(</span>'''[[User_talk:Mistress Selina Kyle|Α⇔Ω]] ¦ [[Special:Emailuser/Mistress Selina Kyle|⇒✉]]'''<span style='color:#800080;'>)</span>'''</sup>'' 23:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
   
 
== ribbons ==
 
== ribbons ==

Revision as of 23:22, 5 February 2012

Proposal to delete categories for service awards

There is a proposal to delete all the categories for service awards. It has been under discussion since October 2 but the proposer did not notify any of the people who have the service awards. RockMagnetist (talk) 21:00, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Checklist:

For consistency, I also changed the other categories in Category:Service award templates that were not listed for deletion. RockMagnetist (talk) 16:26, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Anyway, they were all deleted here. We've been through this before, and creating categories based on the awards is just not going to fly, for good or ill, so I would recommend not doing this anymore as it's just going to irritate people. Herostratus (talk) 08:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. I was not aware of the CfD and did not participate, but I agree with the deletion per nom. HereToHelp (talk to me) 18:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I can see the humour in it

It's a nice bit of Americana to offer useless awards to people with good intentions. I've worked for American companies who awarded people for any feat accomplished except maybe farting without burping. Dutch companies tend not to give awards and diploma's that are useless on a CV for special achievements but things people can actually use, like CD or book vouchers or monetary renumerations. ^^ SpeakFree (talk)(contribs) 17:53, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

In Canada, you get to go out for sushi and submit an expense at the end of the month. No blowfish.
Varlaam (talk) 17:07, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

moving forward

Per Wikipedia talk:Service awards/Archive 6#Moving forward: complete, copy to meta, protect, I

  • Reduced the top service time to 16 years. This, and no higher, is the longest term that people were willing to consider.
Rather than removing any levels, I just dropped down some levels giving 6-7-8-10-12... years instead of 6-8-10-12... years so that now level 15 is 7 years (was 8), level 16 is 8 years (was 10), level 17 is 10 years (was 12), level 18 is 12 years (was 15), level 19 is 14 years (was 17.5) and level 20 is 16 years (was 20). This affects existing editors at those levels, but there are only a very few at those levels that are displaying the awards.
  • Regularized the edits-per-year requirement to be a constant 9,000/year after level 11.
  • Changed some of the "informal" names to remove meaningless/unpronounceable terms such as "Inziklopediock" and "Vinziklopediom". I just made some others up off the top of my head, but at least they are real words.
  • Edited the template text to match and renamed the templates to match.

If anyone has suggestions for better names than "Most Imposing Togneme" and so forth, this is fine, suggest away, but please speak now or forever hold your peace, as I want to rename the graphics to match whatever terms are used.

Also, where I made changes, the links from the table (near the top of the page) and from within the userpage templates back to the appropriate places on the Service Awards page don't work now... there seems to be something with a ".28" code needed... do not understand this at all.

Still to be done:

  • Rename graphics -- they are on Commons so I have to figure out how to do this, I think I have to put in a request.
  • Update {{service awards}}, the self-updating template. Possibly not worth doing.
  • Ideally, some image upgrades such as getting the "ship's wheel" off the graphics for the top three levels -- this is beyond my skill, isn't critical, and will probably not be done.
  • Make an editnotice template warning against ill-considered changes.
  • Some technical listed in the archived thread re making the image filenames match the template names. Not pressing. Pain in the ass.

What else? Am I missing anything? Herostratus (talk) 07:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I've edited Wikipedia:Service awards/Table so that the links from the table at the top and from user page templates now work. All that was needed was to rename the section headings. The ".28" and ".29" stuff you see in the templates is to do with how MediaWiki internally represents parenthesis in section headings. It isn't necessary to use this internal representation in wikicode - you can safely replace ".28" with "(" and ".29" with ")"; both ways should work. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 16:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I've also updated the {{service awards}} template to use the new 6-7-8-10-12 years. The template currently does not support the top two awards (14 and 16 years). I haven't bothered to add support for these, as no editor has been with the project that long yet. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 17:20, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Wow, thanks much! The {{service awards}} looks kind of codey and I wasn't looking forward to fixing it. Thanks! Herostratus (talk) 04:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
I put an older Grandmaster Editor image back in the table. It has stars on the ribbon and the simple superstar in the middle. A version without the superstar is also available. Older images for the higher levels should also still be around. Opinions? VMS Mosaic (talk) 23:08, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I dislike the "ship's wheels", so I also restored images for the top two levels. No versions exist which have stars on the ribbons or which don't have the superstar. VMS Mosaic (talk) 13:18, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
That is great! These are improvements. I didn't like the ship's wheels either and I don't think they were ever much liked. Thanks. Herostratus (talk) 15:21, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
Although I (as La-138) helped Mootros develop his scheme, I do not oppose any changes away from his version. I don't really have an opinion on this, so you can make any changes you want and I won't mind. Double sharp (talk) 04:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Vanguard Editor (or Lord High Togneme) Image

Was browsing through the service awards and I noticed this image for the Vanguard Editor (or Lord High Togneme):
Gom.jpg
Looks very similar in appearance to a QR code - maybe this should be changed to seem more authentic? :P -download ׀ talk 19:51, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Ha. Well, something like this would be good:

Service Awards Gom2.jpg

It uses some text from the Voynich manuscript instead. I also made it smaller. It need to have the text background be a blend and not just one color, which possibly I can figure out how to do. Even without that it's better I think, so I'll put it in and later I or someone can do the blend. Herostratus (talk) 04:37, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
It's also now a little too small. Will fix presently. Herostratus (talk) 04:44, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
OK, it's about the right size now, but the text area is only marginally adequate. That's about the limit of my skill though. The script source file is File:Voynich manuscript excerpt.svg. Herostratus (talk) 06:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Wait, I thought the idea was for it to be a QR Code (and not just look like one). As though the ancients had complete world knowledge that we had lost and not yet recovered. I oppose a change to the Voynich text, the least significant reason of which is that the photoshopping wasn't done very well. -Achowat (talk) 13:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, OK, maybe, but that interpretation of the QR code was lost on me. Also, I think that that the script just looks better than the QR code which is kind of blocky and ugly IMO. (Granted the bad photoshopping, but that can be fixed.) Herostratus (talk) 13:50, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I really like the version you made with the script, Herostratus. I think one major issue with the current image is that the QR code is significantly stretched in the vertical direction. -download ׀ email 02:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

re the Wikipedia:Incremental service awards (Ribbons)

PartTimeGnome added these back in. I'm of two minds about this: in past, I was not too crazy about these. On the other hand, the Foundation has its hair on fire about bringing in new editors. And this could help, a tiny bit. I used to worry about attracting the kind of new editor who is concerned about updating his status every week or so, but we really need to encourage new editors.

So anyway, if they are to be used, maybe they should be featured more prominently, and if an effort is made to use {{Welcome award}} I guess it could help a little. Should they be moved up and the page and perhaps integrated into the main table, I wonder. Herostratus (talk) 05:00, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think editors who update their status regularly would be a problem, so long as they are also improving the encyclopedia. I added the link from Wikipedia:Service awards to Wikipedia:Incremental service awards (Ribbons), along with a brief description, as I figured since we do have them, it is sensible for them to be mentioned here (the incremental service awards page was previously an orphan). I didn't realise that the incremental service awards had previously been removed; I assumed they were something newish (the page history shows that the page was created by Iamiyouareyou in July this year).
I see your point about making the incremental service awards more prominent if we are to keep them. Perhaps the incremental service awards page should be merged into this one, rather than keeping them on a separate page? I've added a link to this discussion on the incremental service awards talk page.PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 20:07, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I'm not complaining; I have mixed feelings but no real objection. I think it's OK to have it on a separate page. Then maybe like, something in the main table, for the first four levels saying something like "there are also ribbons for incremental slices of this award, see HERE" or something. Would require some fancy table editing though. Herostratus (talk) 22:03, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I've made some changes to the table. Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of? I've also merged the Incremental Service Awards section that was near the end into the Levels section, so that readers have an explanation of the incremental awards before they see the links in the table. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, all the improvements you made are outstanding. Yes, this is what I was thinking of. It's great, thanks. The main table is much better now also, it all fits on the page without scrolling. This is fine work. Herostratus (talk) 06:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

edit notice?

I'm not a huge fan of edit notices, but I created one for this page, {{ServiceAwardsNotice}} which looks like this:

This comes up when a person opens the page for editing. I'm thinking of adding it to this page and all the supporting pages such as the templates. Any objection? Perhaps it could be stated better. Herostratus (talk) 16:04, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Not seeing any objection, I put in the request to have this added. The text of the editnotice can be edited (whether it will remain at {{ServiceAwardsNotice}} or be put into some other place I'm not sure.) If for some reason it's objectionable it can be blanked I guess. Herostratus (talk) 14:34, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Orders of Chivalry

There was some discussion (more a passing mention) in, I don't know, one of Archived page about having a third 'tract' if you will. There'd be the Signator-Lord High Togneme tract and the Registered-Vanguard tract. The third proposed (again, briefly mentioned) tract would be similiar to European Orders of Chivalry. Something like Member of the Order of Editors to Knight Grand Cross, Order of Saint Jimbo (or, y'know, something like that), with post-nominals (and the current Ribbons always make me think 'orders of chivalry' anyway). The offhand comment asked if anyone familiar with Orders of Chivalry could mock up a third 'tract', and I offer my services to the community, if this is something that we'd like to pursue. Achowat (talk) 20:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion about this, but a couple of things: it'd have to be done right, with good-quality images (that are free; can't claim fair use here). And we'd have to change the display. As it is, the table scrolls off the page little and adding another column would make this worse; probably would have to split the table into three sections (regular/humorous/ chivalry) or something. If these objections could be overcome it'd be fine I think. Herostratus (talk) 16:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Given that no one has stood in support of the idea, I don't see that it would be used. It appears (by the image use numbers) that the vast majority of users use the "Serious" (term used loosely) style, secondarily people use the ribbons, and tertiarily people use the "Humorous" style. Since the idea of Orders of Chivarly have been brought up twice now with no one really jumping on board, I'd say it would just be a lot of work for no real benefit. Achowat (talk) 13:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Service awards by time and edit count?

Uhm...normally these types of things come with an "either/or". Since it's not official I go by the time I have been editing. The reason I feel strongly about this is simple. These awards are supposed to be encouraging to editors, not discouraging. I would like to make a small but simple change that reads as such~ "This many years of service OR this many edits, which ever comes first". If a newer editor has the time to achieve a high amount of edits, their service time shouldn't hold them back from proudly showing their level and if an active registered user is still around after so many years, they should be able show that their time has value. Thanks!--Amadscientist (talk) 22:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

As it stands right now....it just seems to be asking too much for a humorous self-given service award and may be making editors simply look at the award as insignificant when in many ways it does have some small amount of meaning.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I dunno if these types of things are either/or, or that there are that many of these types of things. I don't see any reason for a person who's been here 5 years but only makes an occasional rare edit to qualify for a high award. Not that those occasional edits aren't welcome and useful, but I guess the awards are intended mainly for dedicated editors. Editors that have a large number of edits in a shorter time have a better case, but there are useedit rboxes that say "this editor has X edits" and I think that these update automatically (not sure). Meh, I dunno, I think the current scheme is probably best. Herostratus (talk) 05:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Awards based on nothing more than the time one has been hanging around would be essentially meaningless and would completely devalue them for those who have actually expended much effort in editing. An active registered user could be nothing more than someone who logs on once or twice a year to check their talk page (and update their user page with the latest service award they have earned). There is no perfect solution, but I agree that the current scheme is probably best. I wouldn't see a problem with having a separate set of pins or ribbons marking one's years of being an editor, but that should probably be done as a separate project page (e.g. Years of service pins). VMS Mosaic (talk) 09:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
The "this editor has X edits" userboxes do not automatically update. A MediaWiki extension (e.g. MW-EditCount) is needed to write templates that show a user's edit count, but no such extension is installed on Wikipedia. For now, users must manually enter their edit count as a parameter to such userbox templates. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:45, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok, so in regards to the either/or idea, which frankly is far from new, the idea of these awards is to give editors something tangible to strive for. "To become a Grognard Mirabilaire 'on time' I need another 1,500 edits by April", that sort of thing. So, as it stands, number of edits is the primary factor, and I've always seen it as thus. The reason for the Service Time requirements is based on the good faith idea that the longer an editor contributes, the more constructive each edit he makes is. This talk page post, that I am composing right now, is of better form and more constructive to the goal of creating an encyclopedia than my first edit was: A talk post on a mostly dead WikiProject to start a project long-since finished. I support the current two standards and would adamantly oppose an either/or scheme. Achowat (talk) 13:58, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Tough crowd....I'll take my measly 11 thousand plus edits and just go back to my little Tutnum space. I will add one thing...seems strange that if one is among the top 5000 contributing editors, that might have something to do with this. But there is probably some reason to suggest the huge disparaging gap in numbers between levels is that the editors that fall just below that imaginary line aren't really any different. The top percent probably changes in relation to the amount of edits by the top 1 percent (and I swear that's not an occupy reference!=). My point being that the rating for this is far to dismissive and discouraging for those that want to feel their edit history is more substance than numbers. But....I guess it's only a game really. LOL! Thanks for the input.--Amadscientist (talk) 08:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
We have wp:EDITS for those who just want to focus on edit count. I think the idea behind the service awards requiring a combination of edits and tenure is that some sorts of edits require far less effort than others. The typo fixing that I do being a good example. Equally it is possible to create an account and rarely use it. Requiring both means that you need to have been active for a while. Though of course no system is going to be perfect, and I could now go on Wikibreak for several years returning occasionally to add another service award:). ϢereSpielChequers 09:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, it's just in inward look really. If having an interesting looking self given award were really important, I wouldn't have even suggested a change. I get the point, I just think it's asking a bit much. But ...if it ain't broke why fix it and if ya don't like it...don't use it! Thanks!--Amadscientist (talk) 13:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Most sensible thing I've heard all day. Achowat (talk) 14:00, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but gosh, we don't want people to be thinking like "my little Tutnum space". A Tutnum (of any grade) is a really experienced and diligent and valuable editor! Tutnum is a really high level that takes a lot of work to achieve is signifies a very elite editor. If people are thinking "Geez I'm only a Tutnum and it's gonna be so much work to make Labutnum, it makes me feel like just giving it up" that's the opposite of what we're trying to do here. So hmmmm. I don't know the answer to that, but it's possibly a problem with the entire concept of the Service Awards. Herostratus (talk) 15:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

─────────────────Perhaps because there are so many levels above Tutnum, it isn't clear how great an achievement it is to reach Tutnum (e.g. Jimbo is a Tutnum). I'm not sure what the solution is either – we could reduce the number of levels, but then it would take even more work to get to the next level... – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:19, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Letting people know that The Jimbo is a Tutnum will do quite a bit to demonstrate how big of an accomplishment that is. Hell, I was 'promoted' to Yeoman Editor today, and I felt great about it! Achowat (talk) 22:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
No, no, no, User:Herostratus, I don't want you to think I feel like Tutnum is a horrible embarrasment. I was trying to be cute there. It didn't work. Like I said..tough crowd. But I myself have worked hard in the 5 years I have been here to establish a understanding of Wikipedia that was sufficient to enjoy it more. That really is what's important to me. Along with the occasional rare and unique discovery now and then. I like research and digging and understanding things better as I work....or play or...however it may be percieved by each of us....I guess. I enjoy it as much as play as it's a hobby and not a full time job. But I don't see myself as just "anything" on Wikipedia. I leave that to others.--Amadscientist (talk) 01:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

This seems like a mind-set that if encouraged is corrosive to growing the content of the encyclopaedia - people should be trying to genuinely write and add to articles more, creating new ones, improving the many many many very short articles, that is far more important than edit count and much fewer people seem to do it: we need more people taking the time to sit down from the watchlist patrol wars and genuinely writing :) --Mistress Selina Kyle (Α⇔Ω ¦ ⇒✉) 23:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

ribbons

This is an extremely minor point, but since it's contended... I made slight alterations to three ribbons, and they were reverted, which is fine and possibly that's an improvement. There's not much to choose between them, but a third opinion would be good. You can see the altered versions in the File history sections of:

Your changes took away the "fabric" texture to the circles shown on the ribbons. Though I don't think ribbons need to have this texture in all cases, in this case I think they looked better with the fabric texture. BTW, I've also informed User:Aldaron (the person who made the reverts) about this discussion, in case they want to give any further input. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
I was the reverter, and I actually think either version is fine for all but the "Experienced and Established Editor", where the "new" version is not only far too dark, but also has some problem with the border and shadow, that makes it unusable (and not consistent with the others). AldaronT/C 21:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)