Book talk:Avril Lavigne

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Brody Jenner

I added him to the "associated people" list only because the Brody Jenner article mentions that he is dating her. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 19:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

My edits[edit]

Discographer (talk · contribs), why did you undo my revisions? The categorization makes more sense. Please don't WP:OWN this book. You didn't even leave an edit summary. I am reverting your edits back to mine. If you absolutely believe my edits don't help the book in some manner, then explain it on the talk page here. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 22:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Overview means the book is about that person, not their awards or discography, that's what makes up the book, so awards, discography, associated people all are listed in sections. These are not by any means the overview of any book about any musical artist. Also, take a look at all the other books for an example. Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for supplying an edit summary. However, with this reversion, you wrote, "created in universal format with all my other books", a blatant admission to WP:OWNing. While I'm not against inconsistencies, it is against Wikipedia policy to subvert the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. In response to your comment above, "overview" isn't necessarily about the person, but the artist, which would include the overall aspect of the, in this case, Avril Lavigne business. The "Discography" is the overview of her releases. The "Awards and Nominations" is an overview of those items. Many other books follow this indexing of articles. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 23:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
So, you are saying videography, filmography, tours, and related articles are part of the overview. Well, show me a complete list of all the books that are this way. Proove your justification. --Discographer (talk) 23:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Book:Aerosmith, Book:Metallica, Book:AC/DC... But this is no longer the point. The fact remains that I cannot make edits to this book without you reverting me and my (apparently) having to justify my edits to you specifically. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 23:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
You can edit this book, anybody can, anytime; you've made a good edit which is still here, but changing the overall format of the book (which is like that of about 200 other books on music we have here in Wikipedia) is going a little too far. These three books you've listed above are incorrect in the overview format. It's my intention to inform Headbomb that Awards are not part of the book's overall overview, only that artist is. Feel free to edit the book, but just know only the artist belongs in the section listed overview. Best, --Discographer (talk) 23:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
"You can edit this book, anybody can, anytime". Gee. Really? Thanks for clarifying this. And I've read through WP:BOOKS and Help:Books, and I don't see any correct or incorrect "overview format". – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 00:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Then I suggest you get consensus if you want to change this book's format. You've listed three books that can side with you, I can list over 100 (all of which are on my talk page) that can side with me! --Discographer (talk) 00:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you referring to this list: User_talk:Discographer#Books_I_created? In other words, I would have to get consensus with, like, you lol. I've never seen Wikipedia ownership to this extreme in my few years here. Nowhere. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 00:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
It's not ownership. If you're going to change this book to your own particular liking, just because that's how you want it and like for it to be, then anybody can change any of these books to their own liking. Like, say, for a book you might have created to be a certain way, which is why you created it in the first place, I'm sure you wouldn't want anybody to change that book to their own particular liking as opposed to yours. --Discographer (talk) 01:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see any good reason to exclude standalone lists from overviews (by standalone, I mean lists which don't belong to chapters which would exist regardless of that article. Aka "List of members" gets to be in the "Members" chapters, but we would not have an "awards and nominations" chapter because include the articles on the awards they won is unrelated scope of these books IMO). Discrographer likes a discography chapter with a discography articles, personally I can easily live with the discography being part of the overview, but it's not something I feel very strongly about. It's how I made them originally, but Discographer often edited books to have standalone discography chapters (never bothered to revert, since it's not something I care about all that much). There's no real MOS for books, how to best organize a topic depends on the topic and its coverage on Wikipedia. We do have a lot of books on artists, so perhaps it is time that we get an agreed-upon convention. An RFC at WP:WBOOKS would be the best way to go at this, and would probably calm the atmosphere and defuse the ownership problem you're accusing each other of. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing in this discussion about me being accused of ownership. I simply passed through, updated the book as I would any normal article, by being bold and making changes that I believe make sense, and I hit a brick wall with Discographer who is owning this book:
  1. "created in universal format with all my other books" – Ownership
  2. "changing the overall format of the book (which is like that of about 200 other books on music we have here in Wikipedia) is going a little too far" – what format? is there a standard I'm missing? No.
  3. "These three books you've listed above are incorrect in the overview format" – what overview format? Same thing as above, I don't see any rules anywhere, except those Discographer is making up
  4. "It's my intention to inform Headbomb that Awards are not part of the book's overall overview, only that artist is" – I see Discographer has now appointed himself Ruler of All Books
  5. "I can list over 100 (all of which are on my talk page) that can side with me!" – What better way to set a consensus than with your own list!
  6. "If you're going to change this book to your own particular liking, just because that's how you want it and like for it to be, then anybody can change any of these books to their own liking. Like, say, for a book you might have created to be a certain way, which is why you created it in the first place, I'm sure you wouldn't want anybody to change that book to their own particular liking as opposed to yours." – Ownership
No, I'm sorry, I have never accounted anything like this before on Wikipedia. This is a blatant WP:OWN offense. Had Discographer gone to the discussion boards first and started up a civil discussion without just reverting my changes—no edit summary explanation—, had he treated my edits with a little more respect, than this could have turned out differently. I had put in a request for outside dispute resolution, but perhaps you can help us settle the matter. All I need is someone to say that I'm entirely in the wrong, and I will be on my way. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 06:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I actually was about to ask about this, why have a separate chapter for discography when it's only one article anyway? I think it's better suited in the Overview chapter unless there's a guideline/rule somewhere.--Krystaleen 15:01, 19 July 2012 (UTC)