We had toured before, years ago, and he had given me a CD of early RED stuff. It was all just bits and pieces, it was really in the early stages. I loved it, I loved everything on it. Jasen and I are two of the same mind in a lot of ways, especially writing, and he just basically writes songs how I would like them to be written and writes songs that I would want to write myself. It started, and I did a song on the RED album, and we had, just in fun, worked on some other stuff and took it from there. Now, I consider him to be kind of my partner in crime and my writing partner and I definitely look forward to doing a lot more things with him in the future.
He and I did four together. He did the outro of “I Will Not Bow” after the last chorus, he and I equally wrote “Without You,” he wrote the riff and some other things in a song called “Lights Out,” and he and I wrote “Hopeless.”