Module talk:Convert/Archive 2

Module:Convert/makeunits

I've done some major refactoring on Module:Convert/makeunits and it now runs on wiki (no stand-alone computer needed, although I have made a system to invoke the new makeunits for easier testing on my local computer). As noted on the doc page, there is some weirdness in the output that can be worked around by using "subst:". Someone may like to experiment and put the newly defined units in Module:Convert/data. BTW I have reported the bug currently visible in the archives box on this page. Johnuniq (talk) 10:48, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Great! May I suggest we start with the habit to put any new version into Module:Convert/data/sandbox first, and test the /sandbox? -DePiep (talk) 11:10, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Status

I've seen this project working in the shadows, and I wonder what the status is, and if it's going to gonna get ready for prime time any time soon. _→AzaToth 19:27, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm a bit embarassed about the status as the module has been nearly ready for three months. The module actually is ready (and has been used at the Bengali wiki since June, see here), but I've wanted to do a couple of other things, and I wanted to wait for some personal quiet time before asking for {{convert}} to be changed to use the module. I have no plans to change anything in the module—the "other things" involves setting up a more extensive set of testcases and finishing some documentation. The "quiet time" is because quite a bit of work will be required when the module is live, and there's sure to be a couple of weeks of problem fixing (defining missing units; handling reports of breakage; changing the syntax for some features such as spelling which the module does differently). Unfortunately real-life stuff has got quite hectic, and while I've had time to respond to a couple of things on my watchlist, I've had hardly any thinking time for a couple of weeks. In a week I will have a good idea of how off-wiki problems are going. Come to think of it, I might never be "ready" and the best thing might be to just switch the damned thing on and see what happens... Johnuniq (talk) 08:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest release it now; If there are minor problems, others can probably fix it if you are not around, and if it crashes totally, then I assume it can be reverted. _→AzaToth 21:45, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Johnuniq is saying that he/she will need personal quiet time when this one goes live: there could be major problems popping up. I remember when citation /CS1 went live last April, it needed 15 updates in the first month (not that number is important, but the thinking & coding it represents). Leave it up to J I say. -DePiep (talk) 06:11, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks DePiep: you have read me accurately. However, I'm glad to say that the last couple of days have gone well here, and my hectic period has passed for the moment.

Thanks AzaToth: you have pushed at exactly the right moment to get me going again, and I've spent the last couple of days checking some matters that were outstanding. I will recommend the switch at Template talk:Convert#Request to switch to Module:Convert. Johnuniq (talk) 09:28, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Feature request: configReport feedback

I propose the module get s a "config feedback" public function. Its job is to return what configuration settings the module uses. It would be used in document pages & sandboxes (not in mainspace). Demo: Say the module is live, and calling template has this code:

• {{Convert}} {{#invoke:convert|convert| numdot = , }}

Then on Template:convert/doc we ask for the config overview:

• {{#invoke:convert|configReport| numdot = , }}

The report would return:

Incomplete, mockup list

configReport for Module:convert

Variable	Value	Note
Configuration of	#invoke:convert
Template invoking	Module:convert/doc	(template calling configReport)
Module invoked	Module:convert
Parameter(s) set in invoking template:	|numdot=,
|is_test_run=	false
Units data page used	Module:Convert/data
Text data page used	Module:Convert/text
Value applied for numsep	,
Value applied for numdot	,
Value applied for max_sigfig	14
Value applied for lang	(none)	implies en for current wiki
...	...

Rationale.
A lot of configs variables are set, in multiple locations (template, data, text, in module code various places, ...). Also, many are interacting (e.g., sandbox, testing, and language). Some settings are hardcoded in the main convert function. Also there is the logic to be reporduced in the function (prevalence and logic of settings, e.g. overwriting defaults). These has to be copy-pasted or hardcoded into the configReport function; this requires attention. And this configReport also must be called from a template that has copy-paste all parameters from the researched one, another manual action = risk. On the other hand, it gives an editor an overview & a check. It is self-documenting the configuration. Notes: This idea is working in Module:RailGauge to check the datafiule. (coding: User:Mr. Stradivarius). -DePiep (talk) 06:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Good idea, although I'm not sure how much use it would get. Rather than a new function, it should be pretty easy to have a new option (perhaps report=on inside a normal {{convert}}) which would display the table instead of the normal output. I don't think the first three lines are achievable (configuration of, template invoking, module invoked). Johnuniq (talk) 09:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, better: calling through function "convert" prevents having to copy-paste the very settings & logic one wants to check.

Self-identifying the calling template &tc. was a long shot - failed.

Would not be used much, but invaluable in sandboxing. -DePiep (talk) 10:04, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Use of Lua Convert fork

Currently, the Lua script version of Template:Convert (as [[Module:Convert) has been treated as a sandbox version, with Template:Convert/sandboxlua, but installation for wider usage is being discussed. However, despite fears of forking the template, the Lua version has diverged as a fork with different features, incompatible with the markup-based Convert. Originally, {convert} was a simple gateway template to hundreds of subtemplates, which each could convert more than just measurements, but also dates and times which the Lua fork does not handle. Examples of non-numeric conversions:

• {{convert|25 November|date|day}} → 25 November (day 329)
• {{convert|3:45 pm|time|24}} → 3:45 pm (15:45)

The divergence of the Lua version, as a fork, began reasonably as an attempt to "improve" some glitches in the protected Convert subtemplates (now being fixed by the authorized wp:template editors), where the rewrite in Lua would make results consistent. Hence, the forking was a natural follow-on to also add new features, such as 3-part combinations in Lua:

• {{convert/sandboxlua |99|in|ydftin}} → 99 inches (2 yd 2 ft 3 in)
• {{convert |99|in|ydftin}}             → 99 inches (2 yd 2 ft 3 in)

Similarly, the Lua version has other new features, but they come at a high price: as a gargantuan Lua module which would trigger the reformatting of all articles (552,000) using Convert (if any feature were altered except new units in Module:Convert/extra), whereas the original markup-based Template:Convert has allowed numerous feature changes to affect only a few dozen or hundred pages at a time. Efforts to keep the 2 versions synchronized have been delayed for weeks or months, and I think we will need to release the Lua version, as a beneficial fork, but under separate template name(s). Also, there have been calls for a "feature freeze" to transition entirely to Lua, but that implies the old features will be dropped (as incompatible), while a better plan would be to accept new features until a 3-month period of no new requests, allowing the efficient markup-based Convert to reformat only the few articles using a new feature each day (not reformat 552,000 pages for each Lua edit). Meanwhile, I have created Template:Convert/q, to run the rapid Lua version, for rare cases beyond the typical 3-7 conversions, in pages which would contain hundreds of {convert/q}. New features could be added, to either version, and the need for identical features could be assessed in each case, as there are no "consistency police" forcing similar templates to function with lock-step operation. Forks are needed at times: some prefer vanilla and some prefer chocolate, but "chocnilla" is unlikely to satisfy everyone. I think we could carefully expand the use of the Lua version, such as inside Template:Height (using ft/m units), but keep both versions and not force a VE-style upset where "edit" suddenly ran a different interface putting "<nowiki>" tags around "[__]". Because the markup-based Convert is relatively fast (over 40 per second), there is no critical need to use Lua for 7-conversions-per-page. Perhaps discuss these issues below, for use of Lua in {Height} or other templates, and then announce plans at those other templates. -Wikid77 (talk) 07:48, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

WP:FORUMSHOPPING. Wikid, why did you not answer your {{convert/q}} contradiction where it was put to you? Why do I not get the impression that you are helping to improve {convert} in? Were was your collaborative input for the module setup? For months I read you objections thought of afterwards. I add this for me. I find it strange to see this behaviour by Wikid77. I know Widid as a very smart & good editor; this opposition from behind does not seem to fit character. That is not a nice experience. -DePiep (talk) 08:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

---

The old templates (with more than 3000 subtemplates) have many problems:

• See a recent bug report at Template talk:Convert#Dual convert/spell.
• It's a little unfair, but here is what happens if weird mixtures of options are fed into the old templates—see the "Convert (Live)" column.
• Many more examples of template bugs and inconsistencies are here.

The module is live at bn:Template:Convert and simple:Template:Convert and commons:Template:Convert with no apparent problems. A period of maintentance will be required after switching the templates to use the module, but there is every reason to believe that the module will reduce the number of problems currently visible in articles.

No one has identified any units or options that are used in articles and which do not work in the module.

Discussion of whether to switch the template to use the module should be at Template talk:Convert#Request to switch to Module:Convert. Johnuniq (talk) 09:41, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Data Organization

Has any consideration been given to breaking up the /data into subpage groups based on base unit (or theme)? The data page is pretty overwhelming which is going to discourage editing, and since it includes all units, it is going to lead to lots of pages being marked for update in the event of any little change. It would seem reasonable to me to break it up into subgroups, so that /data tells the Module which subpage to look at e.g. data['K'] -> 'temperature' and the actual record is at data/temperature['K']. You'd still have to edit /data if adding new units, but you wouldn't have to refresh everything when changing just one unit group (e.g. temperature).

On a similar theme, I think any special cases requiring dedicated functions (e.g. "mach", "hand") should be moved to an auxiliary module and not be part of the core. The core is complicated enough without also being burdened by the special cases. Ideally one might consider a plugin framework such that the /data entry could specify a module and function to use when converting to and from the special cases, which would make it easier to support additional such units in the future, without having to write them into the core. Dragons flight (talk) 20:31, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, and my first rough design was to have a separate table for each unit type, and a meta table to determine what type of unit was used in a convert. If a convert has, say, "m" as the input unit code, the module would look up the fact that "m" has type "length", and would then load the submodule which has details on units of that type. The output unit would be in that same submodule, or would be an error. I certainly think that the built-in units (Mach and hand, with a couple more wanted) should be in a submodule. I started with them in the main module because it was necessary to first get them working in order to see what hooks into a submodule would be needed (I like top-down design, but my experience is that it has to be tempered with bottom-up).

A contrary view (one that supports the single giant data module) is that people should get the unit definitions right, then we can stop fiddling with them. After that, edits to the unit definitions should be rare, and there could be, say, monthly updates to incorporate tweaks made in the sandbox. Only if that model is found to be a problem would there be a need to introduce the complexity of breaking the giant data module into submodules (one giant module is a problem, but having one hundred submodules would also be a problem). Another factor is that I want to make the modules reasonably simple for use on other wikis. If there are more modules, that's trickier, and it's more difficult to check that the modules at enwiki agree with those on another wiki.

You are aware of Module:Convert/extra? New units can be added there, and they are instantly usable. The "extra" module is only loaded if a conversion involves unknown units, so changing it involves updating only a handful of pages. Also, editors must not change Module:Convert/data except to replace its entire contents with the output from Module:Convert/makeunits. A single (giant) page defines all units (here), and that is reasonably easy to edit, and the output from makeunits (here) can be copied to the sandbox (here) for testing. Johnuniq (talk) 21:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Useless digits

Under Fahrenheit, you have the scale as "0.555555555555555580227178325003".

Obviously this should be 5/9 = 0.555555555555555555555555...

I would assume the bit at the end of your factor is a bit of garbage caused by converting to/from a digital representation at some point. I would suspect that some of the other very long number strings also have garbage at the end, but I haven't checked them. As a practical issue, an error of 3 parts in 10¹⁶ is completely negligible in any context that Wikipedia editors are likely to use, but it might be nice to avoid putting strange gunk in the files if possible. Dragons flight (talk) 20:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I noticed the weird numbers in the scales! The scale for Fahreneit is entered as "5/9" (here), and that wikitext is processed by Module:Convert/makeunits which generates the silly string above—it is the output from tostring(v).

Interestingly, on my local computer, the same code produces "0.55555555555555556", and I was rather shocked when I saw the output from the servers. I pondered what to do, perhaps use string.format('%.14f', v). But that would turn "5" into "5.00000000000000", so I would need another (easy) step to remove the trailing dot and zeroes. And "%.14f" is totally wrong for small scales—"%.14g" would be needed, and that produces more gunk. Finally, what if the servers can actually get more than "%.14f" precision? What if an upgrade in three years can manage "%.20f"? In the end, I gave up and just used tostring(v) which I have found gives good results.

Any suggestions are welcome. The actual line of code is, of course, more complex:

    -- Replace results like '1e-006' with '1e-6'.
    v = string.gsub(tostring(v), '(e[+-])0+([1-9].*)', '%1%2', 1)

Originally I just used the defined scale in the data module, so if an editor enters "5/9", the data module would say "scale = 5/9". I decided that each such expression (there are lots) should be evaluated by makeunits so the servers do not have to do a thousand evaluations just to load the data module. Johnuniq (talk) 21:51, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

No the part that generates the long run of garbage is Module:Convert/makeunits:

local result = string.format('%.30g', value)

Simply replacing that with:

local result = tostring(value)

Should be sufficient to get the decimal representations to terminate at a more normal place. Dragons flight (talk) 02:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Yikes, I've totally misread my code, thanks. Actually, at the moment I cannot recall much about that issue except that it caused a fair bit of angst at the time (nearly nine months ago: diff). As I recall, my thought processes were along the following lines. I wanted to remove expressions like "5/9" by evaluating them so the server does not have to do pointless calculations when the data file is loaded. Therefore each scale has to be written like "scale = 1.234". But the resulting string should not lose precision that may be available on the server that ultimately runs the convert module. I found some cases where '%.30g' gave extra digits compared with tostring, and those digits (on my computer) appeared to be give more precision without too much junk. The "30" is more than what is available in an attempt to say "give as much precision as possible".

I just did this experiment (400/121 is the scale for pyeong):

# In ilua (interactive Lua).
> p = function(v) print(string.format('%.30g\n%s', v, tostring(v))) end
> p(5/9)
0.55555555555555558
0.55555555555556

> p(400/121)
3.3057851239669422
3.3057851239669

# In Python (exact integer arithmetic; "L" = "long integer").
>>> 55555555555555558 * 9
500000000000000022L
>>> 55555555555556 * 9
500000000000004L

>>> 33057851239669422 * 121
4000000000000000062L
>>> 33057851239669 * 121
3999999999999949L

The above shows that the extra digits (on my computer) are not entirely junk. By contrast, is seems clear that the server is producing junk.

I think I'll put your proposal into makeunits and make a sandbox comparing the two cases (the scales produced now, versus the scales that "tostring" would produce). I'll have to do that later. Johnuniq (talk) 03:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Experiment

@Dragons flight: Sorry this is a bit lengthy, but I wanted to record my thoughts. I edited Module:Convert/makeunits so an argument to the invoke controls whether it uses "%.30g" or "tostring".

• Module talk:Convert/makeunits uses {{#invoke:convert/makeunits|makeunits}} ("%.30g").
• User:Johnuniq/sandbox3 uses {{#invoke:convert/makeunits|makeunits|tostring=yes}} ("tostring").

To see the difference, I copied the displayed text to local files, and did a local diff. I was going to post the local files as pages so others could compare them, but the data is pretty useless because it just shows the obvious–using "%.30g" gives a lot of extra digits, most of which are junk. What's really needed is to check the outputs from converts that use a lot of significant figures, when using the different scale values. I've done a little of that on a local computer, and have noticed one irritating difference. Lots of other differences may be apparent if a systematic test were conducted, but the big question is what value of "sigfig" or "precision" to use in such a test. In the vast majority of cases, six significant figures is more than would be meaningful, but might there be some cases where 12 figures or more is needed?

The difference I noticed follows:

Convert knots to kilometers per hour using the module.
{{convert|37.5|kn|km/h|1}}
outvalue = invalue * (inscale / outscale)

Using "%.30g":
"kn"     scale = 0.514444444444444481945311054005
"km/h"   scale = 0.277777777777777790113589162502
outvalue = 37.5 * (0.514444444444444481945311054005 / 0.277777777777777790113589162502)
         = 69.45
	 = 69.5 (rounded to 1 digit)

Using "tostring":
"kn"     scale = 0.51444444444444
"km/h"   scale = 0.27777777777778
outvalue = 37.5 * (0.51444444444444 / 0.27777777777778)
         = 69.449999999999
	 = 69.4 (rounded to 1 digit)

The above calculations can be confirmed by editing any module. In the "Debug console" at the bottom, paste the first of the following lines, press Enter, and wait a few seconds for the result to appear; repeat for the second line.

= 37.5 * (0.514444444444444481945311054005 / 0.277777777777777790113589162502)
= 37.5 * (0.51444444444444 / 0.27777777777778)

The current template gives 69.5, as does the module using "%.30g":

• {{convert|37.5|kn|km/h|1}} → 37.5 knots (69.5 km/h)
• {{convert/sandboxlua|37.5|kn|km/h|1}} → 37.5 knots (69.5 km/h)

I find it a bit irritating that switching the module from "%.30g" to "tostring" would mean the module gets 69.4. I understand that the result is just a side effect of how floating point arithmetic works, but it's irritating! Using tostring means Module:Convert/data would be "cleaner" (and nearly 2000 bytes shorter), but it also means there would be some tiny loss of precision in some cases. My inclination is to put up with the silliness of the excess digits and not worry about changing the module to use "tostring". Johnuniq (talk) 09:21, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

If you change "%.30g" to "%.16g" (or maybe it's 17), I think you get all of the precision that actually exists without appending a long string of garbage. A floating point double can only represent 16 decimal digits after all. For whatever reason, tostring seems to give 14 digits.

Trying with 16 digits:

= 37.5 * (0.5144444444444444 / 0.2777777777777778)

Seems to give what you expect in the console. Dragons flight (talk) 18:38, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Alternative Suggestion

When the scale value in Module:Convert/documentation/conversion_data/doc is made up on one number divided by another, instead of pre-calculating it, why not store both values within two params, scale & scalediv, for example:

    ["km/h"] = {
	name1    = "kilometre per hour",
	name1_us = "kilometer per hour",
	name2    = "kilometres per hour",
	name2_us = "kilometers per hour",
	symbol   = "km/h",
	utype    = "speed",
	scale    = 10,
	scalediv = 36,
	default  = "mph",
	link     = "Kilometres per hour",

Would solve the rounding issues but would mean changing the main module. -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:31, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I restored a bunch of text above that I had inadvertently deleted earlier.

That's a great idea. Later I'll ponder what would be involved as there are several quite weird expressions currently used in the scale definitions. One concern is that the data module is already abusing the server, and I'm reluctant to add a lot more fields—but there probably aren't all that many. I'll check that later. Johnuniq (talk) 11:55, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Commonly called numerator⁄denominator or num⁄den. -DePiep (talk) 13:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion

Thanks all for the suggestions. I have done some experiments to show that using "%.17g" (instead of "%.30g") as recommended above by Dragons flight does the job. Interestingly, using "%.30g" on my computer gives the same results as "%.17g" does when run on the server (but "%.30g" on the server generates excess digits in many scales). Module:Convert/data now has the cleaned scale values, and my tests show they work ok.

I did some work on WOSlinker's idea because that appeals to me. The idea I was following was to have makeunits pass either "scale" as a number, or "_scale" as a string with a simplified expression. Then, I was going to put a simplified evaluation function in Module:Convert to generate the numeric scale from the string _scale which would have text like "5/9". I wrote a very short piece of code to do the evaluation, but then I came to my senses and adopted the clean approach of just using "%.17s". The reason I was thinking of evaluation expressions is that such a system would automatically adapt to any server upgrades that may occur in a decade when floating point produces 50 significant digits, or whatever. However, simplicity is good. Johnuniq (talk) 03:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Now live

The module went live on 11 December 2013 so I have archived the now obsolete discussions to Archive 2. The error tracking categories are listed in the documentation at the top of the module page, but I'll list them here:

• Category:Convert invalid units
• Category:Convert invalid options

So far, so good. Johnuniq (talk) 06:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Lua Convert in Slovenian Wikipedia

• Moved from Help talk:Convert. Johnuniq (talk) 10:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that that our input and output parameters contain decimal comma system. Example : 2300,12 or 2.300,12: 1234567,89 or 1.234.567,89. I've just stared to work in our sandbox sl:Template:Convert/peskovnik. Is there an easy solution? --Pinky sl (talk) 06:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

It's easy, however I'm busy with some off-Wikipedia issues and cannot spend any time on this now. I had a quick look (see sl:User:Johnuniq) and found that the modules are protected so I cannot edit them. Are the modules in use? If they are, I would say you are rather courageous because they need setting up for a non-English site. By the way, when copying stuff from another wiki, the edit summary should provide a link to the source.

I am a courageous gal and there is no rush. I changed cascade sl:Template:Convert protection, so now only main template is protected. Modules will not be in use until I change main Template:Convert into Lua version. I never used edit summary for newly created pages (I thought wikidata is enough). --Pinky sl (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a problem which a user from the Vietnamese wiki pointed out here. The problem is that while the module can be customized to output 12.345.678,9 instead of the English 12,345,678.9, doing that means the module will remove all dots from input values, and will regard comma as the decimal mark. The problem occurs when someone copies text from en.wiki—for example, if they copy the English {{convert|12,345.6|m|ft}}, the module would think the input number is 12,3456 (twelve point three four five six).

Current Convert template accepts decimal comma, so our users are used that they have to change input values into:

{{convert|3,21|kg|lb}} = 3,21 kg (7,1 lb)

{{convert|1003,21|kg|lb}} = 1.003,21 kg (2.211,7 lb)

{{convert|1.003,21|kg|lb}} = 1.003,21 kg (2.211,7 lb)--Pinky sl (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to go now, but will be available in perhaps 24 hours. Do you want to translate the messages and unit names? That's takes a bit of work, but can be done. An example is at bn:User:Johnuniq/Translation. Johnuniq (talk) 10:51, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I will translate messages and units, but not until calculations are ok. And again there is no rush, old Convert works fine terrible with limited features. I thought I will upgrade old version, but Lua version is better. And I will not publish new version from sandbox (sl:Template:Convert/peskovnik) until :sl documentation is also ready. One step at a time: first step is that input (in comma decimal system) calculates ok and that output values are also in decimal comma system. No panic said The Good Soldier Švejk. --Pinky sl (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Now comma decimal system works fine. Thank you. I will start with translations. But there is still one problem - it is Slovene declension#Nouns. I cannot know which case (nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, locative, or instrumental) user will use. I'm considering that outputs in our Convert template should only be abbreviations. --Pinky sl (talk) 09:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I prepared the following before seeing your new comment. I'll post it anyway and will think about the abbreviation issue another time.

Re using a linked edit summary when copying from another wiki: That is standard operating procedure and a requirement when material is reused, even when one project uses material from another. I'm used to it, but am not familiar with the rules—possibly WP:REUSE covers it. When an editor here copies text from one page to another without a linked edit summary, they get pointed to WP:CWW. Apart from any requirements, it makes sense so that when someone looks at the page history in the future they can see where the module came from. I think adding an interwiki link via wikidata is regarded as a convenience for a reader/editor, but is not a form of attribution.

Re the problem of numbers being copied from en.wiki and then being misinterpreted: That is a real problem, for example sl:Airbus A380 includes {{convert|8.41|m|ft|abbr=on}} and the "8.41" is interpreted as eight hundred forty-one.

I fixed Template:Convert/sandbox so the module uses "." for number grouping and "," for the decimal mark. I also updated the modules with the new version that will be deployed at en.wiki soon.

Please see the following:

• sl:User:Johnuniq/compare • Compare outputs from old template and module for the converts used at sl.wiki.
• sl:User:Johnuniq/translate • Notes on what needs to be done.

The compare page shows that the module is already getting better results than the old template. We can continue discussing what needs to be done at the above translate page. I'll check it from time to time, but if I don't respond, please ping me here. Johnuniq (talk) 10:47, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

About sl:Airbus A380 - Problem is with one new user, I gave him a warning and reverted his contribution. I will recheck them all. --Pinky sl (talk) 12:54, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

• The module is working at the Slovenian wiki, and has a new feature: the name of a unit can vary according to the value. See sl:User:Johnuniq/translate#Results. Johnuniq (talk) 09:22, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Obsolete HTML

When using |disp=, obsolete HTML is rendered:

Markup	Renders as
{{convert|10|m|ft|disp=table}}	style="text-align:right;"|10 |style="text-align:right;"|33
{{convert|20|m|ft|disp=tablecen}}	style="text-align:center;"|20 |style="text-align:center;"|66

These should be replaced by style="text-align: right;" and style="text-align: center;" respectively. --  Gadget850 ^talk 15:56, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. I have updated my local copy of the module and it will be in the next release in a couple of weeks. Johnuniq (talk) 01:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I have put the new code in Module:Convert/sandbox. The following shows the results.

Markup	Renders as
{{convert/sandbox|10|m|ft|disp=table}}	style="text-align:right;"|10 |style="text-align:right;"|33
{{convert/sandbox|20|m|ft|disp=tablecen}}	style="text-align:center;"|20 |style="text-align:center;"|66
{{convert/sandbox|75.8|kg|lb st|disp=table}}	style="text-align:right;"|75.8 |style="text-align:right;"|167 |style="text-align:right;"|11.94

@Gadget850: The above is obviously correct, but perhaps you would check it anyway, thanks. That {{markup}} is pretty cute! Johnuniq (talk) 10:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. That looks right. {{Markup}} is one of my more popular efforts, there are two variants for other format uses. --  Gadget850 ^talk 11:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Rate

Resolved

copy/paste from Module talk:Convert/extra to maintain Talk Central.

In lines 37 and 46 it would be accumulation rate in the case of rainfall rather than speed. Peter Horn User talk 18:21, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

That's referring to the utype (unit type) name for mm/h and in/h. Thanks, but an imprecision concerning the name does not matter because it never appears in normal usage. The module allows conversion between units with the same type, and the type is displayed only if an invalid conversion is attempted. If mm/h were changed from "speed" to "accumulation rate", it would not be possible to convert between cm/h and mm/h. Johnuniq (talk) 23:09, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

end of c/p -DePiep (talk) 00:29, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Getting data from Module:Convert

For testing I have sometimes wanted to access units from outside convert, but it is too hard to use Module:Convert/data because the information needs to be interpreted by Module:Convert. Another module (Module:Val/units) may be developed and it would need reliable access to convert's units. Therefore I have added a helper function (_unit) which can be seen at the end of Module:Convert/sandbox. This documents how that function can be accessed.

The following demonstrates how a module could look up units.

local get_unit = require('Module:Convert/sandbox')._unit
local unitcode = 'kg'
local options = { value = 12.3, link = true }
local unit1, unit2
unit1 = get_unit(unitcode)
unit2 = get_unit(unitcode, options)
-- unit1.text == 'kg', unit1.sortkey == '7000100000000000000♠'
-- unit2.text == '[[Kilogram|kg]]', unit2.sortkey == '7001123000000000000♠'

See Module talk:Sandbox/Johnuniq/unit for the results of a longer example; anyone is welcome to edit the test module.

The only required parameter is unitcode which must be a string to identify the wanted unit.

Options can be provided in a table:

• value = number (for the sort key; default value is 1)
• link = true if the result should be [[linked]]
• name = true for the name of the unit instead of the symbol
• us = true for the US spelling of the unit, if any

If unitcode is a non-empty string, the function returns a table with fields:

• text = requested symbol or name of unit, optionally linked.
• sortkey = key similar to that provided by {{ntsh}}, based on the result of converting the value to a base unit with scale 1.

If the unitcode was not known, the table will contain unknown = true. Johnuniq (talk) 01:36, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

"Edit request" 23 April 2016

I'm not making this an official request, because it's honestly very minor. The change is essentially Special:Diff/716822109. It updates the function speed_of_sound, simplifying the intermediate variable 'a' (renamed to 'scale') which we use to index into the mach_table to get a sound speed.

Validation was done at Module talk:Sandbox/Andy M. Wang/Sandbox/testcases on changes made at Module:Sandbox/Andy M. Wang/Sandbox/sandbox (which contains the updated speed_of_sound function. If a chance is indeed made, feel free to me know with a replyto. Thanks! — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 04:11, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Andy W.: Thanks, I noticed your edit to Module:Convert/sandbox and wondered why I had written that strange speed_of_sound function. I think the code was trying to stick to the source and use a simple safety-first check to ensure it never raises an error, regardless of how crazy the input is. I have other things to do at the moment and after a couple of minutes of thought I decided to just run the before-and-after functions through a simple test. For altitude 0 and above, the two functions give identical results. However, they are somewhat different for negative altitudes, for example, altitude = -5000 gives 346.098368 in the original and 351.82048 in the new function. I'll think about this issue another time. Johnuniq (talk) 04:30, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: wow, thanks so much for your testing. I honestly don't know how I missed it. As for myself, I must have forgotten to purge my testcases page or something... But yeah, I have a fix (new diff, really): Special:Diff/709665904/716833410. Again, it's minor. But thanks for noticing the earlier mistake. Everything should be exactly the same now. The cases I ran are 0, 2499, 2500, -2499, -2500, -7499, -7500, etc. — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 05:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Edit is live. As discussed in my post above, fixed the fudge factor for less than 0, and all corner cases are solid. Thanks! — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 21:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your work, and I know the original looked a bit repetitive, but it might be better to find an actual problem before changing a module like this. The new code is 10% slower than the old (I just tested it), and it is much harder to be confident that the new code is correct because it relies on tricks rather than the boring-but-bullet-proof "if a < -3 then a = -3..." of the original. On a style point, it is desirable to use only local variables when possible (a minor reason is speed, but more importantly is the fact that globals lead to run-timer errors due to misspelled variables). The new code is missing "local" before its new variable. Please don't fix it because the module is used on over 500,000 articles and there is no need to churn the servers over minor style issues. The original is fine. Johnuniq (talk) 22:38, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: Oh no... I see, I really appreciate your reply-- your follow-up comment's been a good learning experience for me. My intuition from my coding experience was wrong about the fact that my changes were improvements. It was done in good faith, albeit with a lack of real experience in realms like this. Anyway... thanks for your note. Hope we're on decent terms. — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 23:31, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry if I sounded grumpy: I'm trying to understand the weird way Wikidata works following a discussion at Template talk:Convert#Interoperability with Wikidata and haven't had much time lately. Anyway, we're on very good terms because I'm pleased someone has taken the time to look at the code. Johnuniq (talk) 00:00, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good. I understand you're pretty busy and quite involved with this module and its usage. But thanks for your input as always :) Cheers, — Andy W. (talk · contrib) 00:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Correcting mi/d unit name

Hello, I noticed that the mi/d unit was incorrectly labeled "miles per year" and I corrected it to "miles per day". The change has been successfully processed by makeunits. @Johnuniq: could you apply the change to the production version? (I read elsewhere that you prefer to do this from a local TSV file.) Thanks! — JFG ^talk 20:04, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Good, but we are in the habit of discussing units at the template talk page so I'll copy this to Template talk:Convert#Correcting mi/d unit name and respond there. Johnuniq (talk) 03:17, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Solar radiuses?

Really? "solar radii" is almost universally used as the plural in any context where this is used as a unit. Also, is there any support for using this with the symbol? Using the words repeatedly can get a bit cumbersome. Lithopsian (talk) 21:08, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I moved this to Template talk:Convert#Solar radiuses? because others should see a discussion about units. Please respond there. Johnuniq (talk) 00:39, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Redirect

Why not redirect this page to the template talk page? Jimp 00:02, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Possibly, but let's leave it the way it is for now. It's true that recent discussions would be better at template talk but the two archives are about the module, although they are old. We could archive this page and put a box at the top outlining the purpose of this page and the template talk. Something like (in bold!): Please use Template talk:Convert to discuss units or any other feature related to how {{convert}} works. This page is for discussion about internal operation of the modules, or their use on other Wikipedias. Johnuniq (talk) 00:34, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Link the units

Instead of: 'It will cover an area of 2,500 hectares (6,178 acres).' it should be 'It will cover an area of 2,500 hectares (6,178 acres).'
~ Hogne (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Adding Rutherford Unit

I wish to add a unit for conversion in the Module:Convert/data page but lack the permissions. If someone could give me the permission it would be great, otherwise the unit is the non-SI Rutherford (unit) and should be placed next the entries of Bq and Ci. -- Sjschen (talk) 14:51, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

@Sjschen: You can add it in Module:Convert/extra and then if it gets used it will be migrated over to Convert/data later on. -- WOSlinker (talk) 18:26, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 26 August 2017

Please change the link for brake horsepower to "Horsepower#Brake horsepower (bhp)", the link for indicated horsepower to "Horsepower#Indicated horsepower (ihp)", and the link for shaft horsepower to "Horsepower#Shaft horsepower (shp)". Jackdude101 ^talk cont 00:57, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the links but things happen slowly (methodically) here. There are probably lots of other unit links which need updating and it would be best if at least the common units were checked before changing the module. Per the box at the top, discussions about units occur at the template talk page. Johnuniq (talk) 01:13, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Request declined. Changing the headers in the article fixed everything. Jackdude101 ^talk cont 14:54, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Error in convert: Needs the number to be converted

• {{convert|2041|ft|m}} 2,041 feet (622 m)
• {{#invoke:convert|convert|2041|ft|m}}

What'dya mean "needs the number"? The number is right there – 2041 – what's the proper syntax for this? I'm trying to invoke the module directly, on a page with dozens of {{convert}} transclusions, to clear the page out of Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. – wbm1058 (talk) 20:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Module:Convert as it's currently coded, does not support arguments being passed directly to the module in any way, I believe (somewhat ironically) for performance reasons. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 21:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry but the module works only from the template (although it does have an entry point used by Module:Val to get unit information). The module assumes certain optional configuration information is in the #invoke (in the wikitext at Template:Convert, although none is required at enwiki), and the parameters for the conversion are in the call to the template. I have forgotten to check the include-size category for a long time and so have not noticed the problems. Please link to the page where calling convert from a module would help. I don't see how it would. Johnuniq (talk) 23:41, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess this doesn't really transclude that many bytes. I'll try invoking another module to solve the problem. If that doesn't work, then I suppose the article may need to be split. wbm1058 (talk) 23:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

FYI, problem was at Tributaries of the Allegheny River... solved by this edit that invoked Module:Coordinates and got the post-expand include size down to 1,643,320 bytes; well under the 2,097,152 byte limit. wbm1058 (talk) 00:09, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for doing all those fixes. For interest, that article has 585 converts which give a total of 15,200 bytes of transcluded wikitext; using the template doubles that. However, it also has 1,130 coordinates, and just one of them generates 4,663 bytes of stuff! Johnuniq (talk) 00:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Fully-protected edit request on 10 February 2020

Change content model to Wikitext and redirect to Template:Convert/testcases#Sandbox_testcases (the current page just says "see this other page", a purpose which would be better served by a redirect). * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:46, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Module:Convert/testcases changed. Johnuniq (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Tewiki localisation help

The te:Module:Convert/testcases redirection to Template:Convert/testcases on tewiki is failing to save.

I did a preliminary localisation for length with Module:Convert/data directly updated (without going for sandbox). There are issues with kilo abbreviation. It is still showing up as k instead of కి. I could not follow where to implement this part. Please see the testcases and help.--Arjunaraoc (talk) 01:29, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Arjunaraoc: I'll have a look within a day or two. From a two-second look at the above, I'm guessing that you have not seen Template:Convert/Transwiki guide and the "translate page" that it links to. Quite a lot of mucking around is required although you don't have to do everything at once. Johnuniq (talk) 02:57, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Johnuniq, Thanks for your quick response. I relooked into the links and fixed the issue. Can you help address the first issue blocking use of testcases? --Arjunaraoc (talk) 05:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Arjunaraoc: Sorry, I've now had a longer look and it seems you were following the translate documentation. I have also noticed that I was briefly active at tewiki in March 2015 when someone else initially set up convert. Have you seen te:User:Johnuniq/translate? It might be a bit painful to work out what is going on at that page (and I have forgotten) but possibly some issues needing attention are listed there. Regarding your request, are you talking about te:Template:Convert/testcases? I don't know why you need that page. I suggest abandoning it because the enwiki version has a lot of historical baggage and it tests weird parameters that are unlikely to be used. If you want some testcases, you would be better starting from scratch with converts copied from tewiki articles. However, if you have a specific question I'll have a look. Actually, I may have worked out what the problem is. Are you trying to make te:Module:Convert/testcases a redirect to te:Template:Convert/testcases? That cannot be done because a module page has to contain valid Lua code, and "#REDIRECT ..." is wikitext which will not work in a module page. You could put a Lua comment on the module page advising where testcases are, but you cannot link to them. The proper place for such a comment would be in the module documentation which can use wikitext and links. Johnuniq (talk) 06:55, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

You understood my problem. At tewiki, we try to mimic enwiki, as that will help resolve issue easily. On enwiki, the Module to Template redirect seems to be working.--Arjunaraoc (talk) 07:17, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I had forgotten about that as I don't use that page and only made it a redirect when someone suggested it. I didn't want to write a book so my above message left out some critical information. By default, a module page can only contain valid Lua code. However, if you visit Module:Convert/testcases and click "Page information" in the left sidebar, you will find "Page content model" which is set to "wikitext". If you do that on a normal module page (say Module:Convert) you will see "Scribunto" which means Lua code. I have the necessary rights to set the content model and the information page also shows me a "change" link. At tewiki, if "Scribunto" is changed to "wikitext", you will be able to make a redirect. Johnuniq (talk) 08:32, 4 February 2021 (UTC)