Talk:Lennon–McCartney: Difference between revisions

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(F@UCK WIKIPEDIA INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEIVES!)
(F@UCK WIKIPEDIA INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEIVES!)
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''A Day in the Life" is the only later Beatles song that includes substantial contributions by both Lennon and McCartney''
 
''A Day in the Life" is the only later Beatles song that includes substantial contributions by both Lennon and McCartney''
   
What about "I've got a feeling" from let it be? There are plenty examples of songs after Pepper where they each made substantial contributions. For example, on "Obla-Di-Obla-Da" it was Lennon who the song would have lacked its chatchyness and, judging from early demos, would probably not appered on the white album--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 19:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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What about "I've got a feeling" from let it be? There are plenty examples of songs after Pepper where they each made substantial contributions. For example, on "Obla-Di-Obla-Da" it was Lennon who came up with the piano tune, without which the song would have lacked its chatchyness and, judging from early demos, would probably not appered on the white album--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 19:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
   
 
==Input from other members==
 
==Input from other members==
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==Non Beatles==
 
==Non Beatles==
 
The article makes no mention of songs written by Lennon-McCartney for other artists. [[User:Joestynes|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Joestynes|talk]])</sup> 01:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 
The article makes no mention of songs written by Lennon-McCartney for other artists. [[User:Joestynes|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Joestynes|talk]])</sup> 01:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:You're correct. Feel free to mention them. Some notable artists in that category include [[Cilla Black]] and [[Peter & Gordon]]. <span style="font-size: 110%;">&*'''Oppose''' - [[Lennon/McCartney]] (or J.Lennon/P.McCartney) is the official credit for the tandem; extending it beyond that seems a bit confusing and not very necessary... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 05:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
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:You're correct. Feel free to mention them. Some notable artists in that category include [[Cilla Black]] and [[Peter & Gordon]]. <span style="font-size: 110%;">&mdash;'''[[User:GPHemsley|Gordon P. Hemsley]]'''&rarr;<span style="font-size: larger;">[[User talk:GPHemsley|&#x2709;]]</span></span> 07:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
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Another is the Rolling Stones. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.162.155.94|86.162.155.94]] ([[User talk:86.162.155.94|talk]]) 14:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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== Stub ==
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This article should have much more information, after all John and Paul are the songwriters for the most well known group in the world
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DK08 September 17 9:32
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==Article name==
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Shouldn't this article be named "Lennon/McCartney"? That's how I'm used to seeing it. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:16, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
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:Perhaps&mdash;I'm not familiar with the subject to comment really. However, the article suggests that the name was written on albums as "Lennon&mdash;McCartney". [[User:Theshibboleth|Theshibboleth]] 00:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
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I never noticed it before but now that I look, yes, it is usually Lennon/McCartney. 4/27/06
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:Somebody changed it to Lennon/McCartney so I've moved the page to match. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 12:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
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===Proposed change===
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I propose moving this page to (1)[[John Lennon and Paul McCartney]] or (2)[[Lennon and McCartney]].
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The current:
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*"'''Lennon/McCartney'''" (Lennon ''divided by'' McCartney?, Lennon ''over'' McCartney), or
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*"'''Lennon-McCartney'''" (Lennon ''minus'' McCartney?, Lennon ''to'' McCartney?, Lennon ''&mdash'' '';'' McCartney?)
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neither represent what is said or have any other useful meaning!
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Therefore I propose adopting the same approach as [[Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller]] or [[Abbott and Costello]].
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However to avoid unnecessarily long wikilinks; most pages can adopt either
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*"[Lennon & McCartney]" (with a redirect) or the
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*"[John Lennon and Paul McCartney|Lennon & McCartney]" (piped) approach.
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[[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
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All in favour raise your hand and say aye(1) or aye(2)!
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:I'm in favour of keeping it the same. If you check any of the Beatles studio albums they are credited to "Lennon/McCartney" and this is, after all, an article about the songwriting partnership on Lennon/McCartney rather than a biograpy of the two. Now perhaps they intended that to read "Lennon divided by McCartney" - it's possible I suppose, they were on a lot of drugs - but I propose the were using the dash as an instrument of punctuation rather than a mathamatical symbol. By the same token, "Lennon-McCartney" probably means Lennon "[[hyphen]]" McCartney, punctuation rather than a mathamatical symbol. Probably gives it away when there's no numbers in the equasion, though I suppose the "o" in Lennon could be a zero.--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 18:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
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::My point is that this article ''is '' about the ''songwriting partnership'' not the form of typesetting choosen by some faceless EMI employee in 1963. If were going to be pathetic and pedantic we should also have a 'McCartney/Lennnon' article and 'McCartney-Lennon' article etc. etc. for the miriad of variations published around the world since 1962??? or maybe not.
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::I agree that in the grand scheme of things this is a fairly irrelevant issue, however I think the / (slash) looks ugly!! and that "and" cannot be misinterpreted! [[User:Simon123|simonthebold]] 18:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
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:::It's iconic and recognisable. I can see no good reason to change it. And no reason to be so touchy, mate. Removing all the vowels from the word "dickhead" is still pretty damn rude.--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 19:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
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:On all my LP:s (and most CD:s) the song are credited Lennon-McCartney, not Lennon/McCartney. Also sv-wikipedia calls it Lennon-McCartney. It seems like Lennon/McCartney was not inveted as a name until later. [[Special:Contributions/137.163.16.30|137.163.16.30]] ([[User talk:137.163.16.30|talk]]) 09:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
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==Citations==
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I have put two page citations in, plus two reference books. It would be nice to see more. --[[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 20:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
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== The working partnership ==
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The Everly Brothers were certainly the inspiration for the Beatles' harmony and musical sound and a great influence on them, but they did not write their own songs - so it didn't make a lot of sense to me to lead with the Everlys in a paragraph about Lennon/McCartney as a songwriting team. (And it didn't really flow properly) I suppose the point being made is that the Everlys' (and Holly) sound influenced L/McC to write songs that sounded like the ones that they sang? So I rearranged the section - see if it makes sense. Feel free to edit, of course.
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I also added that Forthlin Road was Macca's home - this may be obvious to British fans, but it would not be known to Americans, so I thought the clarification couldn;t hurt. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
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==Two of us==
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This section is too abbreviated - I'd expand it myself but I don't remember the details of the film. Is it focused on the two of them as a writing pair? because that's what this article is about - not about their personal relationship. I didn't remove it, but if the film is not largely about their writing collaboration, I'd say it is misplaced in this article, or the paragraph needs to be written a bit differently. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
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==A joint credit==
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It would seem better to say the only "known" substantial disagreement about authorship - we don't know what other disagreements they may have hashed out privately. And, in the end of the first sentence I took out "which are included here" because I couldn't figure out what it meant - if it should be in, it needs to be clarified. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
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==Controversy==
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As I noted on [[Talk: Wings Over America]], there's a discrepancy between what is said on that page and what is said on this page regarding who complained about Macca's reversal of credits on that 1976 album - here it says nothing about Yoko, and only that John did not complain as he didn't really give a damn at that moment in time; but on [[Wings Over America]] it says that John did not make any comment, but that Yoko did - about that 1976 reversal. I don't know if she did, but if so, the graf in this article needs to be amended. Or that one.
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Also unclear to me if the graf about Yoko's 1997 move of giving Lennon solo credit for Give Peace a Chance (which by the way, sounds perfectly right to me, but no one asked me my opinion) is in the right place - did this happen before, during, or after Macca made his "late 1990s" request about changing Yesterday to McCartney/Lennon? [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
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==in general==
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I think this piece is good, but could be further expanded, at least by additional references - it's depending on 2 books now, and I would think there are other sources, and probably more to say about this writing team. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Post-Beatles Relationship ==
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I feel that Wikipedia ignores John and Paul's relationship after the break-up, but I don't think the subject has enough substance to warrant an article about it. I imagine it would consist of Paul's lawsuit, his switching the songwriting credit order to "McCartney/Lennon" on the ''Wings Over America'' album, John's concession that their choice of a manager was wrong, ''A Toot and a Snore in '74'', and finally the oft-mentioned instance when Paul showed up at John's house with a guitar and John, being too busy for reminiscing, sent him away. I'm probably missing something, so I hesitate to add it to the article, but I really think that this is an important aspect of both men's careers.
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== Why ==
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Why isn't there a similar page for the Lennon-Ono partnership? [[User:216.165.96.57|216.165.96.57]] 03:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
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:Because as a team, Lennon/McCartney were two of the most popular and most accomplished songwriters, musicians, and performers of the last 50+ years, whereas Lennon/Ono weren't? [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 04:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
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==Removed bit on McCartney solo compositions==
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Irrelevant to the article. The article is about songs credited to the Lennon/McCartney partnership. [[User:Vidor|Vidor]] ([[User talk:Vidor|talk]]) 22:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
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==Something about the change in the order of names==
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When the band first started it was credited McCartney Lennon but Brian Epstein changed this as he thought Lennon McCartney sounded better. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.162.155.94|86.162.155.94]] ([[User talk:86.162.155.94|talk]]) 14:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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== Michael Jackson owning publishing rights ==
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Should it be mentioned that the Lennon/McCartney publishing rights are owned by [[Michael Jackson]]? It seems fairly appropriate. [[Special:Contributions/90.21.254.204|90.21.254.204]] ([[User talk:90.21.254.204|talk]]) 17:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
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:That might get a little messy. I don't think he owns all of their songs, so it could be misleading to say that he owns Lennon/McCartney publishing rights. In any event, if anything is added it needs a source. [[User:Ward3001|Ward3001]] ([[User talk:Ward3001|talk]]) 18:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
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:"Sony Corp. paid Michael Jackson $95 million in 1995 to merge ATV with Sony and form Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a 50-50 joint venture, so it's probably more correct to say that Jackson now owns ''half'' the rights to the Beatles catalog."[http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.asp snopes.com]. Some question the reliability of snopes as a source; nonetheless, it raises questions about stating that Jackson owns Lennon/McCartney publishing rights. [[User:Ward3001|Ward3001]] ([[User talk:Ward3001|talk]]) 19:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
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== Legality ==
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Is this legal? I would seem to me that this agreement should be illegal as claiming copyright on a work that one of them did not write could extend copyright based on years after death to when that last supposed author died and not when the only real author. Can someone claim there 1 month old baby was a co-author for this purpose? [[User:Zginder|Z]][[User Talk:Zginder|gin]][[Special:Contributions/Zginder|der]] 2008-08-30T22:34Z ([[Coordinated Universal Time|UTC]])
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:People can assign ownership as they please, but this discussion is really not appropriate here. Talk pages are supposed to be for improving the article, not general discussion of the topic. See [[WP:TALK]]. [[User:Ward3001|Ward3001]] ([[User talk:Ward3001|talk]]) 22:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
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== "In My Life" ==
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If McCartney's quote in the section "A Joint Credit" is correctly stated, then he was mistaken about the origin of "In My Life". It could not have been part-based on "Tears Of A Clown" which was written in 1967 - two years after "In My Life". Probably McCartney was mixing it up with "Tracks of my Tears", also by Smokey Robinson and released in 1965, before "In My Life" was written. Maybe the quote should be qualified or explained, as it can't be accurate. [[Special:Contributions/217.43.81.99|217.43.81.99]] ([[User talk:217.43.81.99|talk]]) 09:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
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:Reading the quote in ''Many Years From Now'', McCartney was not as specific as the "A joint credit" section indicates. I do think he was confused about the specific Smokey Robinson/Miracles songs that were influences. He said, "I went down to the half-landing, where John had a Mellotron, and I sat there and put together a tune based in my mind on Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Songs like 'You Really Got a Hold on Me' amd 'Tears of a Clown' had really been a big influence. You refer back to something you've loved and try and take the spirit of that and write something new." My suggestion is to use McCartney's actual words there so that we avoid an editor's interpretation of them. It's probably a good idea to mention that "Tears of a Clown" was released a few years after "In My Life". It's possible McCartney meant "Tracks of My Tears", but unless there is a source for that, then it's [[WP:No original research|original research]] and shouldn't be added. (I say that even though I think it's likely he did confuse the two songs.) &mdash; [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] ([[User talk:John Cardinal|talk]]) 13:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
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== New Picture ==
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Cool new photo on this page - I hope it stays (not that the old one was bad, but this is a great snap of the two working together)... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 06:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
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== Requested Move ==
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<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
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:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
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The result of the move request was '''no move'''. [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 14:36, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
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----
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[[:Lennon/McCartney]] → [[The Songwriting Partnership of John Lennon and Paul McCartney]] — -
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The official name is The Songwriting Partnership of John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Do I need anymore reasoning? --'''[[User:Krazycev13|<span style="font-family: Tempus Sans ITC;color: #000000">Krazycev</span>]]''' '''[[User talk:Krazycev13|<font color="#1589FF">13</font>]]''' <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Krazycev13|<font color="#D98500">other crap</font>]]</sup> 19:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
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*'''Oppose''' - The common name of this partnership is Lennon/McCartney as the article is named now. No one refers to the partnership by the name you proposed. Furthermore, it's unlikely that anyone searching WP for information about the partnership would ever search for it by that name. You say that the "official name" is the one you proposed, but what is your evidence? &mdash; [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] ([[User talk:John Cardinal|talk]]) 21:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
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*'''Oppose''' [[WP:NCCN|Yes, you do]]. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (koavf)]]❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯ 23:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
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*'''Oppose'''. Requester confuses the first nounal phrase in the opening sentence with an "official name" of the article, which it is not. See [[WP:LEDE#First_sentence]], which makes this more clear. Should [[Charlotte Corday]] be renamed to [[Marie-Anne Charlotte de Corday d'Armont]]? Should [[John Lennon]] and [[Paul McCartney]] be renamed to [[John Winston Ono Lennon]] and [[Sir James Paul McCartney]] (currently redirects), respectively? No, that way lies madness. [[User:TJRC|TJRC]] ([[User talk:TJRC|talk]]) 01:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
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*'''Oppose''' - This is handled by Wikipedia categories. The article is in [[:Category:Songwriting teams]] where you will find, for example [[Holland–Dozier–Holland]], [[Gilbert and Sullivan]], [[Jagger/Richards]] and [[Stock Aitken Waterman]] rather than [[The Songwriting Partnership of Mike Stock, Matt Aitken and Pete Waterman]] etc. Similarly in [[:Category:Aircraft]] you will find [[Nikitin NV-4]], [[BOK-2]] and [[NIAI LEM-3]] rather than [[The Nikitin NV-4 aircraft]] etc. [[User:PL290|PL290]] ([[User talk:PL290|talk]]) 05:05, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
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*'''Oppose''' - [[Lennon/McCartney]] (or J.Lennon/P.McCartney) is the official credit for the tandem; extending it beyond that seems a bit confusing and not very necessary... [[User:Doc9871|Doc9871]] ([[User talk:Doc9871|talk]]) 05:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 
*''Do I need any more reasoning?'' Yes. See [[WP:Official names]]. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] <small>[[User talk:Pmanderson|PMAnderson]]</small> 19:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 
*''Do I need any more reasoning?'' Yes. See [[WP:Official names]]. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] <small>[[User talk:Pmanderson|PMAnderson]]</small> 19:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
   
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== Section deleted ==
 
== Section deleted ==
   
I deleted the section on Beatles songs not written by Lennon/McCartney, on the grounds that the information is not relevant to this article, which is about the Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership and joint credit. The only way I can see that information all together on one page is if The songs of the Beatles" or whatnot, one which discussed all the songwriting credits for all the songs--John and Paul, Harrison's two songs an album, Ringo's rare contributions, various cover songs appearingDoc9871 and Wrapped in Grey. While I very much appreciate the work Doc1971 has put in on [[Ted Bundy|another article]] we've both been involved with I have to say that WiG is correct here. [[User:Vidor|Vidor]] ([[User talk:Vidor|talk]]) 19:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
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I deleted the section on Beatles songs not written by Lennon/McCartney, on the grounds that the information is not relevant to this article, which is about the Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership and joint credit. The only way I can see that information all together on one page is if there were some kind of article about "The songs of the Beatles" or whatnot, one which discussed all the songwriting credits for all the songs--John and Paul, Harrison's two songs an album, Ringo's rare contributions, various cover songs appearing on official Beatles releases, etc. I see this section has been a focus of dispute between Doc9871 and Wrapped in Grey. While I very much appreciate the work Doc1971 has put in on [[Ted Bundy|another article]] we've both been involved with I have to say that WiG is correct here. [[User:Vidor|Vidor]] ([[User talk:Vidor|talk]]) 19:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

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Contributions

A Day in the Life" is the only later Beatles song that includes substantial contributions by both Lennon and McCartney

What about "I've got a feeling" from let it be? There are plenty examples of songs after Pepper where they each made substantial contributions. For example, on "Obla-Di-Obla-Da" it was Lennon who came up with the piano tune, without which the song would have lacked its chatchyness and, judging from early demos, would probably not appered on the white album--Crestville 19:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Input from other members

Quote"lennon-mccartney was used for songs without contributions from george or ringo" not nesseceraly true-what about elenor rigby,a hard days nights,etc? and surely george and ringo had at least some input on EVERY beatles song

It does say "written by"; the types of contributions you refer to would generally be in the area of arrangement. Jgm 22:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Non Beatles

The article makes no mention of songs written by Lennon-McCartney for other artists. jnestorius(talk) 01:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

You're correct. Feel free to mention them. Some notable artists in that category include Cilla Black and Peter & Gordon. Gordon P. Hemsley 07:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Another is the Rolling Stones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.155.94 (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Stub

This article should have much more information, after all John and Paul are the songwriters for the most well known group in the world

DK08 September 17 9:32

Article name

Shouldn't this article be named "Lennon/McCartney"? That's how I'm used to seeing it. --kingboyk 21:16, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps—I'm not familiar with the subject to comment really. However, the article suggests that the name was written on albums as "Lennon—McCartney". Theshibboleth 00:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I never noticed it before but now that I look, yes, it is usually Lennon/McCartney. 4/27/06

Somebody changed it to Lennon/McCartney so I've moved the page to match. --kingboyk 12:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed change

I propose moving this page to (1)John Lennon and Paul McCartney or (2)Lennon and McCartney.

The current:

  • "Lennon/McCartney" (Lennon divided by McCartney?, Lennon over McCartney), or
  • "Lennon-McCartney" (Lennon minus McCartney?, Lennon to McCartney?, Lennon &mdash ; McCartney?)

neither represent what is said or have any other useful meaning!

Therefore I propose adopting the same approach as Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller or Abbott and Costello. However to avoid unnecessarily long wikilinks; most pages can adopt either

  • "[Lennon & McCartney]" (with a redirect) or the
  • "[John Lennon and Paul McCartney|Lennon & McCartney]" (piped) approach.

simonthebold 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

All in favour raise your hand and say aye(1) or aye(2)!

I'm in favour of keeping it the same. If you check any of the Beatles studio albums they are credited to "Lennon/McCartney" and this is, after all, an article about the songwriting partnership on Lennon/McCartney rather than a biograpy of the two. Now perhaps they intended that to read "Lennon divided by McCartney" - it's possible I suppose, they were on a lot of drugs - but I propose the were using the dash as an instrument of punctuation rather than a mathamatical symbol. By the same token, "Lennon-McCartney" probably means Lennon "hyphen" McCartney, punctuation rather than a mathamatical symbol. Probably gives it away when there's no numbers in the equasion, though I suppose the "o" in Lennon could be a zero.--Crestville 18:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
My point is that this article is about the songwriting partnership not the form of typesetting choosen by some faceless EMI employee in 1963. If were going to be pathetic and pedantic we should also have a 'McCartney/Lennnon' article and 'McCartney-Lennon' article etc. etc. for the miriad of variations published around the world since 1962??? or maybe not.
I agree that in the grand scheme of things this is a fairly irrelevant issue, however I think the / (slash) looks ugly!! and that "and" cannot be misinterpreted! simonthebold 18:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
It's iconic and recognisable. I can see no good reason to change it. And no reason to be so touchy, mate. Removing all the vowels from the word "dickhead" is still pretty damn rude.--Crestville 19:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
On all my LP:s (and most CD:s) the song are credited Lennon-McCartney, not Lennon/McCartney. Also sv-wikipedia calls it Lennon-McCartney. It seems like Lennon/McCartney was not inveted as a name until later. 137.163.16.30 (talk) 09:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Citations

I have put two page citations in, plus two reference books. It would be nice to see more. --andreasegde 20:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The working partnership

The Everly Brothers were certainly the inspiration for the Beatles' harmony and musical sound and a great influence on them, but they did not write their own songs - so it didn't make a lot of sense to me to lead with the Everlys in a paragraph about Lennon/McCartney as a songwriting team. (And it didn't really flow properly) I suppose the point being made is that the Everlys' (and Holly) sound influenced L/McC to write songs that sounded like the ones that they sang? So I rearranged the section - see if it makes sense. Feel free to edit, of course.

I also added that Forthlin Road was Macca's home - this may be obvious to British fans, but it would not be known to Americans, so I thought the clarification couldn;t hurt. Tvoz 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Two of us

This section is too abbreviated - I'd expand it myself but I don't remember the details of the film. Is it focused on the two of them as a writing pair? because that's what this article is about - not about their personal relationship. I didn't remove it, but if the film is not largely about their writing collaboration, I'd say it is misplaced in this article, or the paragraph needs to be written a bit differently. Tvoz 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

A joint credit

It would seem better to say the only "known" substantial disagreement about authorship - we don't know what other disagreements they may have hashed out privately. And, in the end of the first sentence I took out "which are included here" because I couldn't figure out what it meant - if it should be in, it needs to be clarified. Tvoz 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Controversy

As I noted on Talk: Wings Over America, there's a discrepancy between what is said on that page and what is said on this page regarding who complained about Macca's reversal of credits on that 1976 album - here it says nothing about Yoko, and only that John did not complain as he didn't really give a damn at that moment in time; but on Wings Over America it says that John did not make any comment, but that Yoko did - about that 1976 reversal. I don't know if she did, but if so, the graf in this article needs to be amended. Or that one.

Also unclear to me if the graf about Yoko's 1997 move of giving Lennon solo credit for Give Peace a Chance (which by the way, sounds perfectly right to me, but no one asked me my opinion) is in the right place - did this happen before, during, or after Macca made his "late 1990s" request about changing Yesterday to McCartney/Lennon? Tvoz 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


in general

I think this piece is good, but could be further expanded, at least by additional references - it's depending on 2 books now, and I would think there are other sources, and probably more to say about this writing team. Tvoz 06:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Post-Beatles Relationship

I feel that Wikipedia ignores John and Paul's relationship after the break-up, but I don't think the subject has enough substance to warrant an article about it. I imagine it would consist of Paul's lawsuit, his switching the songwriting credit order to "McCartney/Lennon" on the Wings Over America album, John's concession that their choice of a manager was wrong, A Toot and a Snore in '74, and finally the oft-mentioned instance when Paul showed up at John's house with a guitar and John, being too busy for reminiscing, sent him away. I'm probably missing something, so I hesitate to add it to the article, but I really think that this is an important aspect of both men's careers.

Why

Why isn't there a similar page for the Lennon-Ono partnership? 216.165.96.57 03:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Because as a team, Lennon/McCartney were two of the most popular and most accomplished songwriters, musicians, and performers of the last 50+ years, whereas Lennon/Ono weren't? John Cardinal 04:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed bit on McCartney solo compositions

Irrelevant to the article. The article is about songs credited to the Lennon/McCartney partnership. Vidor (talk) 22:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Something about the change in the order of names

When the band first started it was credited McCartney Lennon but Brian Epstein changed this as he thought Lennon McCartney sounded better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.155.94 (talk) 14:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Michael Jackson owning publishing rights

Should it be mentioned that the Lennon/McCartney publishing rights are owned by Michael Jackson? It seems fairly appropriate. 90.21.254.204 (talk) 17:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

That might get a little messy. I don't think he owns all of their songs, so it could be misleading to say that he owns Lennon/McCartney publishing rights. In any event, if anything is added it needs a source. Ward3001 (talk) 18:44, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
"Sony Corp. paid Michael Jackson $95 million in 1995 to merge ATV with Sony and form Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a 50-50 joint venture, so it's probably more correct to say that Jackson now owns half the rights to the Beatles catalog."snopes.com. Some question the reliability of snopes as a source; nonetheless, it raises questions about stating that Jackson owns Lennon/McCartney publishing rights. Ward3001 (talk) 19:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Legality

Is this legal? I would seem to me that this agreement should be illegal as claiming copyright on a work that one of them did not write could extend copyright based on years after death to when that last supposed author died and not when the only real author. Can someone claim there 1 month old baby was a co-author for this purpose? Zginder 2008-08-30T22:34Z (UTC)

People can assign ownership as they please, but this discussion is really not appropriate here. Talk pages are supposed to be for improving the article, not general discussion of the topic. See WP:TALK. Ward3001 (talk) 22:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

"In My Life"

If McCartney's quote in the section "A Joint Credit" is correctly stated, then he was mistaken about the origin of "In My Life". It could not have been part-based on "Tears Of A Clown" which was written in 1967 - two years after "In My Life". Probably McCartney was mixing it up with "Tracks of my Tears", also by Smokey Robinson and released in 1965, before "In My Life" was written. Maybe the quote should be qualified or explained, as it can't be accurate. 217.43.81.99 (talk) 09:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Reading the quote in Many Years From Now, McCartney was not as specific as the "A joint credit" section indicates. I do think he was confused about the specific Smokey Robinson/Miracles songs that were influences. He said, "I went down to the half-landing, where John had a Mellotron, and I sat there and put together a tune based in my mind on Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Songs like 'You Really Got a Hold on Me' amd 'Tears of a Clown' had really been a big influence. You refer back to something you've loved and try and take the spirit of that and write something new." My suggestion is to use McCartney's actual words there so that we avoid an editor's interpretation of them. It's probably a good idea to mention that "Tears of a Clown" was released a few years after "In My Life". It's possible McCartney meant "Tracks of My Tears", but unless there is a source for that, then it's original research and shouldn't be added. (I say that even though I think it's likely he did confuse the two songs.) — John Cardinal (talk) 13:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

New Picture

Cool new photo on this page - I hope it stays (not that the old one was bad, but this is a great snap of the two working together)... Doc9871 (talk) 06:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no move. BencherliteTalk 14:36, 27 October 2009 (UTC)



Lennon/McCartneyThe Songwriting Partnership of John Lennon and Paul McCartney — - The official name is The Songwriting Partnership of John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Do I need anymore reasoning? --Krazycev 13 other crap 19:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Come and Get It

"Come and Get It" was not credited Lennon/McCartney on official releases. Check out the label of the single: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=815826

Badfinger's releases (as well as the Anthology 3) credit it solely to McCartney.

-- ChrisB (talk) 17:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry... Thought it was. I'll remove it. — John Cardinal (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Cool! Thanks! -- ChrisB (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Section deleted

I deleted the section on Beatles songs not written by Lennon/McCartney, on the grounds that the information is not relevant to this article, which is about the Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership and joint credit. The only way I can see that information all together on one page is if there were some kind of article about "The songs of the Beatles" or whatnot, one which discussed all the songwriting credits for all the songs--John and Paul, Harrison's two songs an album, Ringo's rare contributions, various cover songs appearing on official Beatles releases, etc. I see this section has been a focus of dispute between Doc9871 and Wrapped in Grey. While I very much appreciate the work Doc1971 has put in on another article we've both been involved with I have to say that WiG is correct here. Vidor (talk) 19:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)