Talk:Limousine

Exotic Limousines

The VW Bug pics: http://www.theclassicbeetle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vw-beetle-limo.jpg Teh one in Sacramento CA (US) is black, but as I recall they were structuarall identical. (Might even be the same one repainted.) 71.34.68.150 (talk) 04:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)A REDDSON.

two modern meanings

There are two and a half generally distinct meanings as to how limosine is used in modern America: (1) a large, luxury car, leased/owned privately for the use of an individual or family, being driven by a hired chauffeur/driver rather than by the owner and (2) a possibly large, possibly luxurious car hired together with a driver on an hourly or daily livery basis (and a half) special models of cars manufactured for the above reasons with features like tons of legroom in the back. A starving student could own a old used model "limosine" and drive it himself and still call it a limosine. I'm guessing the distinctions are not in the article because the livery business would like all of their cars to be thought of as luxurious, but many of them are heavily used and ratty. While Rolls Royce or Bentley make limosines that private people might buy, the livery industry is more apt to deploy a fleet of Lincoln Towncars or various stretches 74.68.152.245 (talk) 02:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Derivation of word Limousine

The word limousine is derived from the name of the French region Limousin, where the inhabitants wore a hood perceived to be similar to the profile of the car.

To be honest I have no idea what a hood "similar to the profile of the car" would look like. I have been unable to find any drawings or pictures. Maybe someone could add an illustration - Ma.rkus.nl 23:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I smell BS... I am adding a citation flag. -Rolypolyman 00:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Citation added and line rewritten to reflect what the cited reference states. Respectfully, SamBlob 20:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, the Oxford English Dictionary has no such etymology. It just says, "A (luxury) motor car with a compartment for the passengers and a separate compartment for the driver. Also attrib. Orig. the driver's seat was outside though covered with a roof. Since the 1930s the word has been more usual in North America than in the U.K.; recently it has been used, esp. in the U.S., for vehicles conveying passengers to and from large airports." WilliamDenton 19:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

What edition of the OED are you using? Does it give any etymology at all? Respectfully, SamBlob 20:36, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It was the online version, and the entry didn't include any etymology (which surprised me a bit). I quoted the whole entry. -- WilliamDenton 04:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The online OED has etymology as a separate button, which defaults to not checked. The etymology refers you back to "Limousin": "of or pertaining to this region, its inhabitants, or their dialect." So I guess they are saying, it originally meant "a Limousin car; one of the style to be found in or around Limoges." --Orange Mike | Talk 17:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

(Deleted text restored - Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 20:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC))

not a limousine hood but an answer to the problem

Little Red Riding Hood when caught in heavy rain pulls her hood forward to give shelter to her face. The outline of the hood is rounded following the shape of her head. A wagoner (coachman, professional driver, chauffeur) wears a limousine hood. When pulled forward to give shelter a limousine hood is propped up to give square corners and his vision though restricted is not as restricted as that of poor Little Red Riding Hood. See above: The word limousine is derived from the name of the French region Limousin, where the inhabitants wore a hood perceived to be similar to the profile of the car. Sincerely, Eddaido (talk) 09:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Limousin Article

Hi, here's an article which explains the limousine history. This should help you with your inquiry.
Here is some more details of limo hire history.

Limousine link

Hi,

Can we add a link to our website about limousines? We are a group of people who have an independent website that might be of interest to the readers of the Wikipedia limousine article.

Our website, Limo Head, is about helping people view different types of limousines, find a reputable limousine company and make sure they don't get cheated.

Thank you.

(Much later) We just noticed the comment about why there is not an external link section in the limousine article. That sounds fair enough, so we will not add our link.

On word origin: My understanding is that as fine coaches in France were made with Limousin oak the use to describe luxury vehicles derives from this source. BTW - You provide a great service to researchers (things stay current and are reviewed by a wide range of people) and the plain curious, hat's off!

I would like to suggest a similar link to website LimoXonline.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omarabs (talk • contribs) 23:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Stretch Terminology / 3rd Parties

Should this article contain explanations on how "stretch" is measured and various common lengths by country? Also, perhaps terms like "5th door" could be included to explain to those unfamiliar with the terms.

There are several times when the article metions that 3rd parties will modify many vehicles into stretches. I know my company buys limos modified by Krystal Enterprises, one of the most used companies in the US. Maybe that company could be mentioned as an example.

Geekrecon (talk) 15:48, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

"Historical" section

Tillman has introduced a subsection under "Limousine Types" called "Historical", consisting of the sentence: "Early motor limousines had an open driver's compartment for the chauffeur, and a closed cabin for the passengers" and a thumbnail of a photograph of an early automobile with the caption "1908 Studebaker Brothers Limousine".

Seeing no citation stated for this very general statement that I had never seen stated anywhere else, I deleted the subsection.

Tillman reverted this deletion, claiming that the citation for the section is in the description of the photograph.

I went to the image page and followed the link therein: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/USHS_Shipler&CISOPTR=1314&CISOBOX=1&REC=6 It features the photograph and a description from an archive of historic photographs. The automobile is described by the archivist as a limousine.

While the photograph may (or may not) show a good example of an early limousine, using the photograph as verification of the statement "Early motor limousines had an open driver's compartment for the chauffeur, and a closed cabin for the passengers" is as untenable a generalization as using a photograph of a 1970s coupé with a landau bar as verification of the statement "Coupés built in the 1970s had landau bars".

Giving the photograph the benefit of the doubt, I moved it to the gallery with the caption: "1908 Studebaker Brothers limousine. This limousine had an open driver's compartment for the chauffeur and a closed cabin for the passengers." I then deleted the rest of the subsection, stating in the edit summary: "A photograph of a single vehicle with a caption written by an unknown person does not say anything definitive about an entire type of vehicle."

Tillman reverted this, stating in his edit summary: "rv arbitraty (sic) dl". I assume this to be shorthand for "revert arbitrary deletion".

Since my very specific summary has been ruled as "arbitrary" by Tillman, I have stated my case for deleting the section here. Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 11:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Sorry, I missed your first move of the photo to the gallery -- I thought you had just deleted it. Why don't you think the oldest limo in the article merits main-article placement?

SFAIK, this Studebaker is a fair rep of early limos, as I stated in the deleted History section. The archive this one came from has at least one more "open driver, closed passenger" model of similar age, and I've seen a number of others over the years. But I don't have a specific ref on hand. Will look as time permits. Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 14:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

You are most welcome. I moved the photo to the gallery because it would no longer illustrate the deleted "historical" section. There are other pictures in the gallery that should probably be used as illustrations in the main text as well. I think the gallery was created to reduce the interference with the text that the layout of the thumbnails had been causing. The previous oldest limo in the article (the Wilton) had been used to illustrate the separation between the driver and the passengers.

My major objection to the text of that section was the mention of an "open driver's compartment for the chauffeur", as I had generally believed that limousines were closed cars by definition, as opposed to landaulets with folding tops over the rear seats, or broughams with open driver's seats and enclosed passenger compartments. However, on reading the dictionary definition again, I realize it defines a limousine as "an automobile having a permanently enclosed compartment for three to five persons, the roof of which projects forward over the driver's seat in front." It does not mention the driver being enclosed, just that he was covered by a roof. Further proof that chauffeurs of limousines were not necessarily enclosed, as I had thought they were, comes from the same dictionary's definition of a brougham as "a limousine having an open driver's compartment." (emphasis mine) This leads me now to wonder what those cars were that had no roof over the chauffeur, as I had thought they were broughams... Investigation here at Wikipedia leads me to believe that the term would be "town car" in English-speaking countries and "sedanca de Ville" in continental Europe.

It would be good if we could find some documentation stating the extent to which early limousines had open sides. Failing that, all we have is original research, which is not allowed in Wikipedia articles. Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 01:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the documentation is above, from the OED: "...Orig. the driver's seat was outside though covered with a roof..." -- quoted by WilliamDenton 19:04, 28 August 2007

I'll restore the history section & flesh it out a bit when time permits. Pete Tillman (talk) 17:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Bravo! The history section has been well written and is the only section in the article (at present) that is adequately cited. Thank you! Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 18:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome, & thanx for the compliment. Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 19:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Style?

I've deleted the following paragraph from the article (copy-paste as it was):

Style

Limousines have alot of style. They have very high technology inside of them. The most popular limousines now days are lincoln, chrysler, and cadillac.

Firstly, such "information" has no place in the article. Secondly, it was badly written, wasn't it?

And Its probably not true about the popularity of mentioned brands. If I had to guess I reckon Mercedes Benz Limos are more popular world wind the Chryslers and probably the other two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.177.192 (talk) 00:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Not informations

Quant e-sportlimousine. Bye! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.31.123.164 (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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Edit 2 January 2019

Hi 1292Simon.

Hi Eddaido. Thanks for creating this discussion. My responses are in italic below. Please trust me that I am responding without any emotion, and I do not mean to disrespect you in any way.

images

1. A limousine, standard or otherwise is defined by the division between the driver and his passengers. The 1941 Lincoln Custom image is the best image illustrating this available to Commons that I have ever found. Find a clearer better one and replace the Lincoln if you can. The Studebaker is there just to make it clear to US readers that a century ago limousines were comparatively ordinary in their country. The lLincoln image has to go back in the top right hand corner. Do you agree?

I think the lead images should give the reader an overview of the common types of limousine. That is why I include a 1908, a 1950s and a modern stretch (although I'm not particularly attached to the 1950s Rolls image, perhaps a modern black U.S. limo would be more representative?)
Yes, the Lincoln image is an excellent illustration of a limo interior, although I am conscious of making the lead image box too long. Perhaps it could be more prominantly shown on the right of the History or Characteristics sections?

2. I don't mind if the Iraqi Rolls is not displayed. I don't think it should be up top in such a prominent position

Agreed. See above.

3.Are Hummer stretches common in your part of the world? Are Hummer stretches common? Why is this image here? I don't think it should be in the article and certainly should not be up near the top, maybe in novelties but there are three there already.

Yes, they are commonly seen (as party busses) and easily identifiably form of limo (how can one not notice a beheamouth pink SUV!). This is why I think it should be among the lead images

text

Lead. Why did you remove " It is often a long-wheelbase variant (by 100-150 mm) of its conventional sedan version."?

There are many limos (current and through history) where this is not the case. The wheelbase and sedan content is covered in the Characteristics section, and I don't think it is appropriate for the lead.

History. There has to be a clear break between limousines in general and: The 1916 definition of limousine by . . Also the new "As such" is totally superfluous.

Disagree. I believe that the sentances form a logical progression and "as such" ties them together.

Characteristics. I suggest better wording is: A limousine has a glass partition separating the driver from the passenger compartment with a lift mechanism like windows in doors. It is glass so passengers may see the road. They talk with the driver by opening the partition or by an intercom system. (I have removed superfluous words and used simpler words where that can be done. I've also covered the method of raising and lowering the partition).

There are many limos where the partition is opaque or heavily tinted. Also, the openable partitions are sometimes sliding. Please provide references supporting "so passengers may see the road". I disagree that the current wording is supurfluous.

Limousines Are long-wheelbase vehicles - not Usually. And a jump seat seats only one person! Just revert all your changes in this little paragraph. OK?

Most, but not all, limos are long-wheelbase.
Agree re jump seat; I did not mean to imply multiple seats, so feel free to tweak this. However I think most jump seats are at the front of the passenger compartment, and would like this to be noted.

Stretch Limousines. Please put back the break before Armbruster, their cars are different. Armbruster's early cars are what someone calls a Stage. I have never noticed that Stage paragraph before.

The Armbuster text was written by someone else, I assume it is there as the earliest example of a stretch limo. Perhaps you can help out with some references for this?
As a separate paragraph "Armbuster called their..." sounds a bit like PROMO (on the surface, the reason for its inclusion is currently pretty weak), so I prefer it to be combined with the previous sentance. Perhaps another option is move it to the Stage section and/or reword for clarity?

United States. This paragraph gives wrong information. I am confident that at any time since they began up to today you could/can walk into a Cadillac dealership and order a Cadillac limousine. This paragraph gives a totally incorrect impression.

Agreed, at best it is misleading (FYI I didn't write it) and the paragrpah should be overhauled

Stage, why not hide it until it gets a citation or two? Hold on, Isn't it just an AirPorter or something and if it has no division it is No Limousine.

Agree re hiding (it's not my writing). I have tried to find references for it in the past, but was unsuccessful.

United Kingdom. Replace with: London black cabs are a type of limousine. The occasional seats, or in US taxi-tip-seats, carry advertising on the underside. —Removes a whole lot of guff. Mind you, if a passenger were on the floor, he/she could see the advertising when the occasional seats were in use just by looking up.

I think it should be explained WHY the black cabs are considered a limo, because it isn't an intuitive association. Disagree that "the advertisements are visible when..." is guff (yes, the advertising would be effective for drunk passengers lying on the floor! just joking). Agree it is wortwhile to mention "taxi-tip seats", to provide context for U.S. readers.

Eddaido (talk) 11:49, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 01:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Buses Comment

The following paragraph has been removed with the editorial comment "unsourced/promo/copyvio". That's a great pity because it helps readers by showing the direct link between airport bus, airporter and the current use of "limo". All down to marketing.

The common belief is that any stretched vehicle is a limo. However, according to the federal United States law, a modified vehicle of over 16 passengers (including the driver) is a bus, not a limo. California law code is more stringent and classifies a modified vehicle of above 10 passengers (including the driver) as a bus. It's important for common people to know what stretched vehicles are classified as a limousine and which ones are classified as a bus according to the US law. A stretched vehicle that is classified as a bus must pass more stringent federal regulations checked by the Department of Transportation (DOT) inspectors as it can accommodate more people. A person looking to rent a stretched vehicle must check with the limousine service provider if the stretched vehicle that they are offering is classified as a limousine or a bus. Consequently, if a stretched vehicle is classified as a bus, the limousine service provider should provide the proper DOT bus inspection information to the customer. Therefore, many popular stretched vehicles that may carry over 16 passengers (depending on the length of the stretch) like the stretched Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade, and Lincoln Navigator are classified as a Bus in the United States.

Eddaido (talk) 22:37, 18 September 2019 (UTC) (there is no box for my edit summary ??)

No objections to it being readded providing it's drastically rewritten, –Davey2010^Talk 18:54, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

References

Currently in production

@Vauxford: Hi, I went to some trouble to try to verify these claims and as you see removed most of them. You have reinstated them. Is it too much to ask for you to show evidence that these vehicles you have re listed are in fact in production? Eddaido (talk) 09:54, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Eddaido That was a accident on my behalf, I was restoring other edits done by a range of IPs and that was among the articles that been effected. --Vauxford (talk) 10:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 10:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)